McCain to tax our health benefits?

[wiffleball 4,790]

 

I didn't know this. McCain's proposing to tax our health benefits (a pretty big chunk of people's compensation for those in the know - far more than just what you pay out of pocket.) for the first time in history.

 

It would be the single biggest middle class tax increase in history. Trillions of dollars. I can't believe I hadn't hear about that. But then again, he doesn't have word about it on his website.

 

Check out the ad. It's only 30 seconds.

 

 

Honestly, If you talk to HR guys, health benes are hella expensive. - A huge concern for corporate america in terms of rising costs. If McCain taxes us on the retail value of those benefits? Fock me. Prepare to see your paycheck shrink - without ANY offsetting income increase. Geesus.

 

Wasn't voting for him before, but good Gawd. How'd I miss this??

[pimptastic69 0]

Do you own a television?

 

[davebg 0]

I'm suprised you didn't know about this. It is one of the biggest criticisms of McCain's healthcare plan. Obama had brought it up in the debates a few times.

[pingpong 0]

Since when is an Obama ad a fair resource? How's this for a response?

"John McCain wants to tax your health insurance benefits."

 

He's right, but here's the rest of the story. Let's say that you and your brother work for different companies. Your company provides you with health insurance. Your brother has to buy his own. Your boss gets a tax deduction for the cost of your health insurance. Your brother does not get a tax deduction for the cost of his health insurance. In effect, he is paying much more than you are for the same policy. Not fair. There's a reason for this. For decades government has wanted to coerce you into getting insurance through your employer. This gets you acclimated to the idea of someone else -- someone besides yourself -- is responsible for your health care. The end result is that the government, in effect, subsidizes the cost of your health insurance, but not your brother's. Now McCain has this idea of a $5,000 tax credit for every family to pay for their own health insurance policy. To make this work everyone has to start from the same starting line. Remember, you're subsidized, your brother is not. So McCain takes away the tax deduction your employer gets for your health insurance. There ... now we're all of equal standing when the $5,000 tax credits start coming out.

 

Now that wasn't too hard, was it?

http://boortz.com/nuze/200810/10272008.html

[gutterslut 1]

And he keeps screaming that Obama will raise your taxes.

 

How about you repubs chiming in on this one. Go ahead.

 

Go ahead.

[Isotopes 1]

Since when is an Obama ad a fair resource? How's this for a response?

 

http://boortz.com/nuze/200810/10272008.html

 

How does this make it better? He is still taxing my health benefits. Sounds like redistributing wealth. Tax my benefits so you can give money to someone else. If Obama was proposing this the Right would be screaming.

[wiffleball 4,790]

I'm suprised you didn't know about this. It is one of the biggest criticisms of McCain's healthcare plan. Obama had brought it up in the debates a few times.

 

I admit. I feel pretty stupid for that. I mean fock guys, this is the oldest trick in the book in my business. States can't really raise (for example) their sales tax rates much higher, so they just increase the base.

 

This is exactly what McCain's doing. How the fock can he say he's offering any kind of tax cut? What, keep the rate the same or lower it a bit for some, but then increase pretty much every working americans tax base?

 

Think about this guys - maybe you already have. Your salary doesn't change one bit, but all of a sudden, you're take-home is a chunk less. WTF?

 

Or, I refuse health care, buy it myself and hope to god I have a tax offset for his tax credit at the end of the year? Damn. Okay, now this shiit is affecting my wallet.

 

Before, I was just having fun making Rusty and co look stoopid, but damn. No, this isn't right. You don't do that. This would be huge. This would affect virtually every person with employer sponsored health care. And, if you guys shop around - especially if you have kids? I mean, you're gonna get taxed on hundreds of dollars more per month - even though your salary didn't increase at all.

 

Holy Mother Fock. No focking WAY.

[pimptastic69 0]

And he keeps screaming that Obama will raise your taxes.

 

How about you repubs chiming in on this one. Go ahead.

 

Go ahead.

 

Basically, the employer paid contribution turns into taxable income. Then everybody gets a $5000 tax credit.

[wiffleball 4,790]

Since when is an Obama ad a fair resource? How's this for a response?

 

http://boortz.com/nuze/200810/10272008.html

 

I already addressed this boortz thing in another thread. So, the option is to REFUSE the great benefits that your employer offers and go out and buy your own out of pocket? If you have kids - that's shiit's EXPENSIVE. And if you have a pre-existing condition? No focking way. You won't GET any.

 

Moreover, pretend You make about 60,000 a year and have four kids & a mortgage.

 

1) You likely aren't going to HAVE a $5,000 tax bill at the end of the year to offset against this credit. That shows how out of touch McCain is.

2) On TOP of that, every month, you have to kick out $265 (or whatever) for insurance.

At BEST - you get it back at the end of the year?? No Focking Way!

 

I'm thinking of my bartender. She doesn't have health insurance. She sure as hell doesn't have a $5,000 tax liability. What the hell good does that credit do her? I mean, she'd have to give up what? A week's pay to go GET insurance just to get the credit? - At the end of the year? Too focking late. She's kicked out of her apartment by then. What does she say? Wait until April of next year?

 

 

Guys, I don't care what the source. No games. No Bullshiit. That's pretty focking bad. Holy Crap.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he..._care_spin.html

 

One Obama ad charges that McCain's plan would be "the largest middle-class tax increase in history." That's simply not true. The ad, titled "One Word," cites a New York Times article from May 1 that says nothing of the sort.

 

The Obama campaign's calculations look only at the tax that workers would pay on the value of employer-sponsored health benefits without accounting for the tax credit workers would receive. The Times article said that "the elimination of the [income tax] exclusion would generate $3.6 trillion over 10 years, according to the McCain campaign." The $3.6 trillion, the Obama camp reasons, would be the largest tax increase in history. But for most Americans, the increased tax bill would be more than offset by McCain's tax credits.

 

Only those in high tax brackets or with very high-priced plans would pay more in taxes than they'll get with McCain's credit. The Times article says some middle-income workers "conceivably" could pay more if they live in regions where insurance costs are unusually high. But most would come out winners.

 

The issue is that the add mentions the taxing part, but skips over the tax credit part. It is an unfair spin, but is pretty consistent with how both candidates have run their campaigns.

[wiffleball 4,790]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he..._care_spin.html

The issue is that the add mentions the taxing part, but skips over the tax credit part. It is an unfair spin, but is pretty consistent with how both candidates have run their campaigns.

 

I like factcheck. That's a salient point. But the point is, it's a "credit" right, not an outright deduction. So, if you don't have $5,000 in taxes at the end of the year to offset, most credits don't let you go below zero taxable income. - That's the catch. And folks like my bartender / dry cleaner? No way.

 

I mean, if he just flat out gave everybody 5,000, that's one thing. But this is not only limited to what I said above (tax offsets), but to whatever's taken out of your paycheck though the year in increased taxes. So basically, it's nothing more than a shell game? Us loaning $5,000 (or whatever) to John so he can give it back to us in one big lump sum? Either way, he's radically increasing the taxable base - on cash I don't get. I think I'd much rather NOT loan the goverment the money every two weeks and then hope to god I have the necessary offsets at the end of the year.

 

Do I have this straight??

[Uh-huh 0]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he..._care_spin.html

The issue is that the add mentions the taxing part, but skips over the tax credit part. It is an unfair spin, but is pretty consistent with how both candidates have run their campaigns.

I think the real issue is McCain has said he will not raise taxes, yet here's part of his economic proposals that will actually increase taxes on some (many?) Americans. But he's claiming he won't raise taxes.

 

Another item of interest is the tax credit (2500 for individuals and 5000 for families) does NOT go to the taxpayer. It goes directly to the insurance company as a discount to the cost of your health plan.

 

Another item that's overlooked about McCain's proposal is this: if you think shopping for auto insurance or life insurance is confusing, wait till you have to figure out the differences between a PPO, an EPO, and a HMO, or you have to wade through the exemptions, the deductible rules, the coverages versus non-coverage rules, and so on and so forth. This could turn into a positive - there will be companies out there offering a la carte coverage, where you can pick and choose what you want in terms of health care coverage ("hmmm my family has no history of MS so I'll skip coverage for that").

 

Bottom line: under McCain's plan, some families will see a increase in their taxable income and therefore in their tax burden. And lastly, McCain's plan makes little provision for the uninsured.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Wiff, i'm not sure if i'm understanding you correctly, but this tax credit is refundable.

 

If you have a good plan by your employer, i'm thinking the 5k will be enough offset the taxes. But just barely. The employer cost of a health plan for the average plan is about 12k. If that goes up to say 15k, then that 5k is barely covering it.

 

It probably helps, single, low-income people the most. People like me. Right now i pay $90/month for health insurance. With that tax credit, i'd be able to buy a plan that costs $210 a month and not have to pay a single dime. So not only do i get a much better plan, i save my $90/month. Is that fair? I think thats too much, but i can't talk for every low income person so maybe it does help them.

 

I think the big problem comes when your employer doesn't offer health benefits. According to USA today, the average cost for healthcare is approaching 11k. So you'll be paying 6k out of pocket for your health care. But even then, paying 6k is much better than paying the 11k families without employer health care are paying.

[gutterslut 1]

I like factcheck. That's a salient point. But the point is, it's a "credit" right, not an outright deduction. So, if you don't have $5,000 in taxes at the end of the year to offset, most credits don't let you go below zero taxable income. - That's the catch. And folks like my bartender / dry cleaner? No way.

 

I mean, if he just flat out gave everybody 5,000, that's one thing. But this is not only limited to what I said above (tax offsets), but to whatever's taken out of your paycheck though the year in increased taxes. So basically, it's nothing more than a shell game? Us loaning $5,000 (or whatever) to John so he can give it back to us in one big lump sum? Either way, he's radically increasing the taxable base - on cash I don't get. I think I'd much rather NOT loan the goverment the money every two weeks and then hope to god I have the necessary offsets at the end of the year.

 

Do I have this straight??

 

 

 

The $ 5,000 credit balance goes straight to the Insurance company. You never see it.

[wiffleball 4,790]

Another item of interest is the tax credit (2500 for individuals and 5000 for families) does NOT go to the taxpayer. It goes directly to the insurance company as a discount to the cost of your health plan.

 

Okay, if this is true, that's completely focked up. It's only 2500? And I never see a DIME of it? So, my tax withholding goes up every paycheck AND I don't get the money back at the end of the year? Ugh.

[parrot 789]

Since when is an Obama ad a fair resource? How's this for a response?

"John McCain wants to tax your health insurance benefits."

 

He's right, but here's the rest of the story. Let's say that you and your brother work for different companies. Your company provides you with health insurance. Your brother has to buy his own. Your boss gets a tax deduction for the cost of your health insurance. Your brother does not get a tax deduction for the cost of his health insurance. In effect, he is paying much more than you are for the same policy. Not fair. There's a reason for this. For decades government has wanted to coerce you into getting insurance through your employer. This gets you acclimated to the idea of someone else -- someone besides yourself -- is responsible for your health care. The end result is that the government, in effect, subsidizes the cost of your health insurance, but not your brother's. Now McCain has this idea of a $5,000 tax credit for every family to pay for their own health insurance policy. To make this work everyone has to start from the same starting line. Remember, you're subsidized, your brother is not. So McCain takes away the tax deduction your employer gets for your health insurance. There ... now we're all of equal standing when the $5,000 tax credits start coming out.

 

Now that wasn't too hard, was it?

 

http://boortz.com/nuze/200810/10272008.html

 

So instead of the government subsidizing some people's heathcare, the gov't will now subsidize everyone's healthcare. Jeez, what a great smaller-government, non-socialist position.

 

RE bold: Boortz seems to be trying to create the impression that this somehow hits the emplyer. McCain is not proposing taking anything away from the employer, he is simply taxing the benefit to the employee. The employer can either continue to provide the benefit or just convert it to wages, either way he still gets the expense. It doesn't really affect the business.

 

Also people should consider that this won't just be more dollars you're taxed on, it has the potential to push many emplyees into higher tax brackets.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Okay, if this is true, that's completely focked up. It's only 2500? And I never see a DIME of it? So, my tax withholding goes up every paycheck AND I don't get the money back at the end of the year? Ugh.

Wiffle couple questions:

 

Is your healthcare deduction that comes out of your paycheck more than $208.00 per month?

 

Do you think the addittional tax that is applied to your paycheck going to be more than $208.00 per month?

[wiffleball 4,790]

Okay, I did some looking. The average cost of health care for a family is around $12,000.

 

Premiums for employer-sponsored health coverage average averaged $12,680 this year, with employees paying $3,354

 

So, you have a family. You're already struggling. Now, you gotta come up with another $7,000 to buy your own. - In order to get a $5,000 credit that goes directly to the insurance provider?

 

Or, you stay with your employer. You pay out $3500 and get tax taken out of your paycheck for revenue you never received.

 

Oh yeah, I'm liking this turd.

[pimptastic69 0]

The $ 5,000 credit balance goes straight to the Insurance company. You never see it.

 

That's kind of the point of the whole program. That's why it's called a health care tax credit.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Okay, if this is true, that's completely focked up. It's only 2500? And I never see a DIME of it? So, my tax withholding goes up every paycheck AND I don't get the money back at the end of the year? Ugh.

 

It depends on how much your plan is costing the employer. Lets say it costs them $400/month, which i think is overestimating it a bit, it comes out to $4800/year. How much would taxes be? .35x4800= 1680. You would not be paying more in taxes. Plus you don't lose the $820 (the difference between your credit and how much you'd be taxed on your benefits). That 820 goes into a separate account and can be used for medical emergencies.

[wiffleball 4,790]

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues...cf2edb527cf.htm

 

 

Okay, so I went to John's own site to see if I could get some information. Obama's right - It doesn't say anwhere here (that I can find) that "I'm going to tax your benefits". It tells me what they won't tax. But nowhere does it even mention this idea. WTF? Isn't that a pretty big point John??

 

I'd sure like to see how this thing works in practice. But John's not giving any details other than broad overviews. Anybody got a better site??

[itsbigmoni 1]

Okay, I did some looking. The average cost of health care for a family is around $12,000.

So, you have a family. You're already struggling. Now, you gotta come up with another $7,000 to buy your own. - In order to get a $5,000 credit that goes directly to the insurance provider?

 

Or, you stay with your employer. You pay out $3500 and get tax taken out of your paycheck for revenue you never received.

 

Oh yeah, I'm liking this turd.

 

 

Employers are paying roughly 8k. .35*8000=2800

 

2800(taxes on employers benefits)+3354(average cost of what employee pays)=6154

 

6154-5000(tax credit)= $1,154

 

3354-1154= 2200

 

Under your scenario, the family would save $2200/year. Not bad.

[wiffleball 4,790]

That's kind of the point of the whole program. That's why it's called a health care tax credit.

 

Usually tax credits go to the taxpayer.

[pimptastic69 0]

Usually tax credits go to the taxpayer.

 

I think this one is a little different than a typical tax credit.

 

Too be honest, I don't like either of the candidates health care plans. Currently, I'm on the wifey's employee plan because my employer only offers catostrophe. Their rules state that if I am able to get health insurance elsewhere, I can be dropped from the plan.

 

I like things the way they are right now.

[wiffleball 4,790]

http://boortz.com/nuze/200810/10272008.html

So instead of the government subsidizing some people's heathcare, the gov't will now subsidize everyone's healthcare. Jeez, what a great smaller-government, non-socialist position.

 

Yeah. I was reading articles on this at lunch. The big fear from some is that this would likely damage or kill employer-sponsored health care benefits. I can tell you our CEO (old company) was at a meeting with 100 other CEO's at the white house (a few years back) and every single one of them said that was the biggest expense they worried about. - Seems like a clever way to help out one hell of a lot of CEO's with that little problem. Plus, big companies can pool their employees to get more purchasing power. Tons of individuals thrown on to the market won't have that same negotiation power. The fear is that people will get lesser benefits (purchasing as individuals), lose their employer-benefits (now that they have an excuse) and corporations will make out like bandits. - Both employers and health insurance companies.

 

 

Not liking this. Sneaky.

[wiffleball 4,790]

Employers are paying roughly 8k. .35*8000=2800

 

2800(taxes on employers benefits)+3354(average cost of what employee pays)=6154

 

6154-5000(tax credit)= $1,154

 

3354-1154= 2200

 

Under your scenario, the family would save $2200/year. Not bad.

 

Can you show me where McCain says we can use the offset against our additonal taxes? I'm not being combative, I just haven't seen it. I don't even know how that would work. The credit goes to the insurance company. How the heck would we ever recoup the extra taxes if the credit goes to the insurance company? If that's the case, the insurance company would not only get Government subsidized premiums, but they'd get MY tax dollars that I paid ON my employer-provided health care*. See what I mean??

 

 

 

 

*So not only does insurance company get:

 

8K from my employer.

3.5K from me.

--------------------

Their original charge before Mccain.

=============

 

 

But under your scenario, they'd also get the addtional $2,800 of MY tax dollars that I paid on the 8K benefit?

 

Damn, that's a scam and half!! What is that? a 15% revenue increase for them?

[wiffleball 4,790]

I like things the way they are right now.

 

Yeah, me too. I like the Hypocratic oath - I think if Politicians are going to get involved in health care, they should follow it too:

 

First, Do No Harm.

[heavy-set 39]

yea but he gives you a tax credit. 2500 if single, 5000 if family.

 

 

the problem is, how much does your employer pay on your behalf? for me its $2900 (iam single). so i would be taxed on $400.

another problem is that it is indexed to inflation, but healthcare costs rise faster. so my taxes will go up every year.

 

for families at my employer, the company pays $7500, so they would be taxed on an additional $2500.

 

 

 

vote BO

[itsbigmoni 1]

Can you show me where McCain says we can use the offset against our additonal taxes? I'm not being combative, I just haven't seen it. I don't even know how that would work. The credit goes to the insurance company. How the heck would we ever recoup the extra taxes if the credit goes to the insurance company? If that's the case, the insurance company would not only get Government subsidized premiums, but they'd get MY tax dollars that I paid ON my employer-provided health care*. See what I mean??

*So not only does insurance company get:

 

8K from my employer.

3.5K from me.

--------------------

Their original charge before Mccain.

=============

But under your scenario, they'd also get the addtional $2,800 of MY tax dollars that I paid on the 8K benefit?

 

Damn, that's a scam and half!! What is that? a 15% revenue increase for them?

 

 

I think the $2800 in taxes would go to the government.

 

Also, this is my understanding of the tax credit, but i may be wrong. Lets say at the end of the year you owe 10k in taxes under the current system. With a 5k tax credit, you'd only owe 5k right?

 

I think employers dropping health coverage has been the biggest worry of opponents to this plan. My question is why would they? How does John McCains plan affect the employers? Is the cost of health care currently tax deductible and under mccains plan it would take that away? If thats true, that'd be a terrible plan by mccain. But if employers are unaffected, is there any other reason employers drop health care? Not in general, but i mean like, mccains plan being the reason they switch.

 

If there is something that would make them drop health care, that'd be terrible. For the reasons you mentioned, plus families would be SOL. They'd go from paying 4k to 7k. And thats without the purchasing power you mentioned.

[itsbigmoni 1]

yea but he gives you a tax credit. 2500 if single, 5000 if family.

the problem is, how much does your employer pay on your behalf? for me its $2900 (iam single). so i would be taxed on $400.

another problem is that it is indexed to inflation, but healthcare costs rise faster. so my taxes will go up every year.

 

for families at my employer, the company pays $7500, so they would be taxed on an additional $2500.

vote BO

 

I'm pretty sure you'd be taxed for the full $2900. How much do you pay a month right now? For you it'd work like this;

 

.35x2900=1015

 

You'd be taxed an additonal $1015. But, the $2500 tax credit would offset that. So you have $1485 of your credit left. Lets say you pay $50/month. The tax credit would take care of that as well. The government would put the remaining $885 into a medical emergency account for you.

[KSB2424 3,148]

yea but he gives you a tax credit. 2500 if single, 5000 if family.

the problem is, how much does your employer pay on your behalf? for me its $2900 (iam single). so i would be taxed on $400.

another problem is that it is indexed to inflation, but healthcare costs rise faster. so my taxes will go up every year.

 

for families at my employer, the company pays $7500, so they would be taxed on an additional $2500.

vote BO

I like you heavy set but you are really dumb.

[Strike 5,574]

You guys are ignoring the other parts of McCain's plan. He's going to allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, something that in many cases they're prohibited from doing now. Couple that with a LOT of people being able to shop for their own plans and theoretically you're increasing competition which should drive the price of plans down. Additionally, you'll be able to shop for a plan that meets your needs. A 25 year old active person's needs may be different than a 55 year old fatty. So you may be able to get a cheaper plan than other people, options you usually don't have with employer sponsored plans. Will all of this work? I don't know. But if you're going to talk about a plan make sure you include all the pertinent aspects of the plan.

[wiffleball 4,790]

I think the $2800 in taxes would go to the government.

 

- Yeah, the original taxes that got withheld from my check. But if the credit goes to the health insurance company (as you guys say) and your computation INCLUDES the amount of taxes that got withheld from my check. The REIMBURSEMENT of those taxes go to the insurance company - not ME. That's completely focked.

 

 

I think employers dropping health coverage has been the biggest worry of opponents to this plan. My question is why would they? If there is something that would make them drop health care, that'd be terrible. For the reasons you mentioned, plus families would be SOL. They'd go from paying 4k to 7k. And thats without the purchasing power you mentioned.

 

The answer to "why would they?" comes right from my CEO. Every CEO in America is hemorraging cash on employer provided health care. It's a huge cost. With this credit rolling out, Employers could easily say "go get your own". They're already cutting benefits, increasing employee contribution every year. And you just know that the extra cash they save sure as heck wouldn't end up in our paychecks.

 

Oh by the way - Per McCain's own site. Even if you DID end up with a net credit. The money you gave to the government to spend any focking way they want. - That net credit in cash you gave to the government- could ONLY be used in a "portable health spending account." You can spend it any way you want, but I can only use it the way you want? What? Should I fake a heart attack to get my own money back?

 

Fock you. That's my money. What if I don't NEED that money for health care, but I damn sure need it to pay other expenses - or invest??

 

The more I look, the less I like.

[pimptastic69 0]

The answer to "why would they?" comes right from my CEO. Every CEO in America is hemorraging cash on employer provided health care. It's a huge cost. With this credit rolling out, Employers could easily say "go get your own". They're already cutting benefits, increasing employee contribution every year. And you just know that the extra cash they save sure as heck wouldn't end up in our paychecks.

 

Oh by the way - Per McCain's own site. Even if you DID end up with a net credit. The money you gave to the government to spend any focking way they want. - That net credit in cash you gave to the government- could ONLY be used in a "portable health spending account." You can spend it any way you want, but I can only use it the way you want? What? Should I fake a heart attack to get my own money back?

 

Fock you. That's my money. What if I don't NEED that money for health care, but I damn sure need it to pay rent??

 

The more I look, the less I like.

 

The same can be said about Obama's plan.

 

That's why both "plans" suck.

[heavy-set 39]

I like you heavy set but you are really dumb.

really?

 

how so.

 

the employer paid portion is now considered income, my employer pays $2900 for me, my tax credit is 2500. 2900-2500 = 400

 

i still pay premiums, but that is into a sec 125 pop (premium only plan) and is tax deductible for federal purposes. What I pay would not be income, cuz iam paying for it.

 

 

i stupid, not dumb

[pimptastic69 0]

really?

 

how so.

 

the employer paid portion is now considered income, my employer pays $2900 for me, my tax credit is 2500. 2900-2500 = 400

 

i still pay premiums, but that is into a sec 125 pop (premium only plan) and is tax deductible for federal purposes. What I pay would not be income, cuz iam paying for it.

i stupid, not dumb

 

cuz you won't be paying 100% tax on the premiums.

[itsbigmoni 1]

really?

 

how so.

 

the employer paid portion is now considered income, my employer pays $2900 for me, my tax credit is 2500. 2900-2500 = 400

 

i still pay premiums, but that is into a sec 125 pop (premium only plan) and is tax deductible for federal purposes. What I pay would not be income, cuz iam paying for it.

i stupid, not dumb

 

lol thats not how it works. I clearly explained to you in my other post where i quoted you.

[KSB2424 3,148]

really?

 

how so.

 

the employer paid portion is now considered income, my employer pays $2900 for me, my tax credit is 2500. 2900-2500 = 400

 

But you only come out of pocket (dependent on your state) roughly about 35 percent of the 2900. 2900*.35 = $1015. 1015-2500 = you come out ahead by 1485.00.

[wiffleball 4,790]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162335/page/2

 

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/...080503_8652.php

 

 

Here's two really good articles on the plan. The 2nd one is more "balanced" because it at least praises what McCain's trying to do in principle - as well as addressing Obama's weaknesses.

 

 

But (and I might even start another thread about this depending upon how cantankarous I feel). He BETTER STFUP about "Socialism".

 

You know how this works?

 

If you WORK and get benefits, he'll TAX you. THEN he'll take all that money and

 

SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND. He'll give YOUR money to people who DON'T HAVE employer benefits, to the elderly, the unemployed, - starting to sound like something to you??

 

So, not only does he "spread the wealth around", the ONLY way you can spend YOUR money is through "health care". HE can spend your money any way he wants. When he gives us a credit at the end of the year (assuming you can afford to pay the premiums all year until your credit comes around. - That credit will be set up with your insurer in a "healthcare account" .

 

Man, NOT loving this at all. That sure as hell isn't going to incent people without insurance - who aren't exactly swimming in savings now - to spend thousands of dollars up front - only to get a credit they can't touch - unless they get sick again.

 

HUGE Boom to: Employers and Health Insurance companies.

[heavy-set 39]

lol thats not how it works. I clearly explained to you in my other post where i quoted you.

yea, you right. but i never read your post

 

 

there is a difference between a tax CREDIT and DEDUCTION. I am getting 2500 off my tax bill not a 2500 deduction from my income.

BIG DIFFERENCE. but i now pay tax on my employe rbenefits. $2900 X 15% bracket (i poor). 435 more in taxes but i get a free 2500, whoo hooooo

 

so i would make out like a bandit :bandit:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no way it works that way,right?