If massive spending will turn the economy around...

[parrot 789]

HOPE & CHANGE Brutha!

 

I've said before, I don' so much care who's "in charge", as either side is equally willing to ass-rape us given a chance, IMO. What's important is that they not be in charge of everything. The Whitehouse should have to battle with Congress for what it wants and vice versa. It's no accident that the last decent government we had was Clinton/Gingrich. With a Democratic Congress and a Democratic WH, we are F-U-C-T, FUCT.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

With a Democratic Congress and a Democratic WH, we are F-U-C-T, FUCT.

 

Someone shoulda said something like that BEFORE the election.............oh wait, I did.

 

[parrot 789]

Someone shoulda said something like that BEFORE the election.............oh wait, I did.

 

 

Congrats to you on stating the obvious.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Congrats to you on stating the obvious.

 

 

Didn't you support Obama?

[parrot 789]

Didn't you support Obama?

Nope. Never really "supported" anyone, but I voted McCain.

 

Very early I said I might vote Obama with a gun to my head. Hadn't really thought things through at that point.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Nope. Never really "supported" anyone, but I voted McCain.

 

Same here.

 

Too bad we didn't put up at least a mediocre candidate.

[jerryskids 5,207]

We spent way too much the last 8 years. Most of us agree on that. The difference now is:

 

1) We are not in an economic expansion

 

2) We cannot rely on the consumer to spend us out of this recession, as we could in 2000, our last recession. That recession was confined to the business sector.

 

A basic conception:

 

Government spends $x billion to build roads and bridges that are nearly falling down. These weren't going to be worked on before. As a result, state Depts of Transportation place the work out for bid. Companies that win these large jobs must now add workers to do the work, or at least not fire more workers than they already have. All the lumber, concrete, etc. suppliers supply the materials. Those companies increase employment. The stimulus spreads its way through the economy at payroll companies, and other companies that support the ones doing the actual work. Those workers go out and spend LESS THAN 100% hopefully - they don't have to spend it all, and shouldn't. This spending provides additional stimulus to restaurants and retail, etc. The government must replace, and stimulate, this MARKET FAILURE.

 

Now I don't suggest that all $800 billion will provide immediate job growth and stimulus. There is plenty to dislike in this package to date. But supply siders that whine about lowering taxes will tell you that it takes some time for "trickle down" to work its way through the economy to lift all boats as well.

This is basically the Keynes economic theory; in tough economic times, people are afraid to spend money and thus hoard it, and the government provides the spark to jump start confidence/spending. Of course, in Keynes' time people were willing to make sacrifices, rationing raw materials etc. Our society of second-handers won't go for that today, we need an HDTV in every house. Also, one could argue that we have been living in a Keynesian world thru the Bush administration, spending money on the support infrastructure for a war, and the related jobs/materials associated with it.

 

It is an interesting theory, and while I have my strong doubts, I highly hope that Obama/Pelosi/Reid are right.

 

I'll leave out the fact that this bill is a pork-laden shiotfest that is primarily intended to push thru a bunch of socialist agenda which otherwise wouldn't fly, since that isn't the purpose of this thread.

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

This is basically the Keynes economic theory; in tough economic times, people are afraid to spend money and thus hoard it, and the government provides the spark to jump start confidence/spending. Of course, in Keynes' time people were willing to make sacrifices, rationing raw materials etc. Our society of second-handers won't go for that today, we need an HDTV in every house. Also, one could argue that we have been living in a Keynesian world thru the Bush administration, spending money on the support infrastructure for a war, and the related jobs/materials associated with it.

 

It is an interesting theory, and while I have my strong doubts, I highly hope that Obama/Pelosi/Reid are right.

 

I'll leave out the fact that this bill is a pork-laden shiotfest that is primarily intended to push thru a bunch of socialist agenda which otherwise wouldn't fly, since that isn't the purpose of this thread.

hahaha. great post. including the last bit.

[RLLD 3,455]

This is basically the Keynes economic theory; in tough economic times, people are afraid to spend money and thus hoard it, and the government provides the spark to jump start confidence/spending. Of course, in Keynes' time people were willing to make sacrifices, rationing raw materials etc. Our society of second-handers won't go for that today, we need an HDTV in every house. Also, one could argue that we have been living in a Keynesian world thru the Bush administration, spending money on the support infrastructure for a war, and the related jobs/materials associated with it.

 

It is an interesting theory, and while I have my strong doubts, I highly hope that Obama/Pelosi/Reid are right.

 

I'll leave out the fact that this bill is a pork-laden shiotfest that is primarily intended to push thru a bunch of socialist agenda which otherwise wouldn't fly, since that isn't the purpose of this thread.

 

One factor of many economic theories is the specific flaw that they rarely attempt to include measures of market psychology, and as such often fail under strain.

 

Minsky was the rare exception in that he often managed to include insightful relevance missed by others, and even Trimpin for all his insight would miss the important psychological factors.

[Greedo 13]

I haven't looked very closely at it because it makes me want to puke, but I don't doubt that at all, other than the idea that it's just the Dems who are lining up at the trough.

 

It's worth noting that about 1/3 of the total cost is tax cuts, which should please the conservatives here. That leaves about 2/3 - and I suppose it depends on your definition of infrastructure. I think the 10% number is quite low, but I consider things like modernizing the electrical grid infrastructure spending - don't know if you do.

[surferskin 30]

It's worth noting that about 1/3 of the total cost is tax cuts, which should please the conservatives here. That leaves about 2/3 - and I suppose it depends on your definition of infrastructure. I think the 10% number is quite low, but I consider things like modernizing the electrical grid infrastructure spending - don't know if you do.

Tax credits are not the same as tax cuts.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

It's worth noting that about 1/3 of the total cost is tax cuts,

 

What a crock of sh!t. Link us up to that 1/3 there Sport.

[VikesFan 1]

we gonna spend it on us, not wars

 

hth

 

Yet are the troops coming home? Last I checked, they were going to other countries. He wants to spend it on us and stimulte the economy??? Send them all home from every part of the globe. The cut taxes by 50%.

[naomi 343]

Someone shoulda said something like that BEFORE the election.............oh wait, I did.

RP when you post the

you should leave a line between them so it doesn't look like the banana guy is standing on doublethumbsup's head.

 

 

 

it bugs me

[Greedo 13]

From CNN.com:

 

"Most individuals will get a $400 tax credit, and most couples will get an $800 credit. That amounts to an extra $13 a week in a person's paycheck, starting in June.

 

• Many students will get $2,500 tuition tax credit.

 

• First-time home buyers qualify for a tax credit of up to $8,000.

 

Senate staffers worked overnight trying to write the final legislation. Democratic sources said 35 percent of the bill deals with tax cuts and 65 percent with spending."

 

The above are not all the cuts, and don't include one of the centerpieces of Obama's campaign, the tax cut for the middle and lower class.

 

You can mince words all you want, the fact remains that these credits reduce taxes paid.

 

So much for your "crock of sh!t", sport. Your turn to show something different.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

That amounts to an extra $13 a week in a person's paycheck, starting in June.

 

That should turn the economy around pronto.

 

 

[Greedo 13]

So since it's got no big effect, I won't expect to see you complaining when we increase taxes by the same amount somewhere down the line to start paying down our national debt.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

So since it's got no big effect, I won't expect to see you complaining when we increase taxes by the same amount somewhere down the line to start paying down our national debt.

 

 

Let's cross that bridge when we gwt to it.................I won't hold my breath seeing as how we have not payed down the National Debt a single time since we started to incur it.

[Cuse9 128]

Bump