32 Million Uninsured Now Have Healthcare!

[NewbieJr 541]

I don't know what else to say.

 

Does anyone in the audience speak Newbiese? Maybe I should type in crayon or something.

Of course you don't. It's not an easy accusation to reply to. You've just been shown how your 'views' (or what you were told your views should be) are a huge contradiction of themselves. Really makes you seem unintelligent.

 

Pointer: Don't use the whole government-making-decisions argument until you review all your opinions and make sure you're not advocating just that in any of them.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Did anyone notice the change to student loans added to the bill? All student loans will be handled by the government and taken away from private banks. It adds a ton of money to Pell Grants. Do we really want more poor kids having access to college? They'll only become liberal voters.

 

 

They threw that in because it is supposedly gonna save money. Had to pay for this turd.

 

They also put the doctor fix in a different bill because paying for it on this turd, as they should have, would have broke the budget.

 

It's all smoke and mirrors. Anyone who doesn't think this thing is a budget buster is Newbie stupid.

[Johnny B Good 0]

You're a fuckin idiot. Ever actually do any reading?

 

Try googling Paul Ryan Healthcare.

 

 

 

What did the Republicans propose when they ruled Washington

[TylerRoseFan 16]

So, it's going to cost over a trillion dollars to pay for this???? If the goal was to insure the 30,000,000, why doesn't the gubment chip in $10,000 a year to actually buy coverage for each of the uninsured and save some jack?

 

30,000,000 x 10,000 = 300,000,000,000

 

300,000,000,000 < 1,000,000,000,000

[Blitzen 0]

Of course you don't. It's not an easy accusation to reply to. You've just been shown how your 'views' (or what you were told your views should be) are a huge contradiction of themselves. Really makes you seem unintelligent.

 

Pointer: Don't use the whole government-making-decisions argument until you review all your opinions and make sure you're not advocating just that in any of them.

 

jerryskids thinks abortion is murder and you don't. This is where the analogy breaks down I think.

[BLS 313]

What did the Republicans propose when they ruled Washington

 

 

That's not the topic of conversation now is it?

 

You're a fuckin dolt, and I just proved it to you.

[Frank M 181]

Hey, where's Strike? Did his head explode like I predicted?

[BLS 313]

I don't know what else to say.

 

Does anyone in the audience speak Newbiese? Maybe I should type in crayon or something.

 

No, you cannot discuss things with the loony left.

Logic and reason are long gone. Much like a woman's thought process.

 

They say if you use government to say you can't kill a child that is no less tyrannical than forcing us to buy health insurance.

I guess we conservatives are all about anarchy and we should have NO laws.

 

Newbie is an idiot and is what is wrong with this country.

[NewbieJr 541]

jerryskids thinks abortion is murder and you don't. This is where the analogy breaks down I think.

 

Yeah, I know. They have all these radical, ridiculous comparisons to make to try to defend their prehistoric and retarded beliefs. Homosexuals are comparible to child molesters and animal fockers, too. All deviants.

[NewbieJr 541]

Newbie is an idiot and is what is wrong with this country.

 

Says the gun-toting, paranoid loon.

[Blitzen 0]

 

Yeah, I know. They have all these radical, ridiculous comparisons to make to try to defend their prehistoric and retarded beliefs. Homosexuals are comparible to child molesters and animal fockers, too. All deviants.

 

So then you agree that the analogy cannot make sense for him?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

So, it's going to cost over a trillion dollars to pay for this???? If the goal was to insure the 30,000,000, why doesn't the gubment chip in $10,000 a year to actually buy coverage for each of the uninsured and save some jack?

 

30,000,000 x 10,000 = 300,000,000,000

 

300,000,000,000 < 1,000,000,000,000

 

Because this turd isn't about cutting costs.

 

Because this turd isn't about providing healthcare coverage.

 

Because this turd is ALL about the Gubmint getting control of 1/6 of the economy.

[KSB2424 3,087]

I guess we conservatives are all about anarchy and we should have NO laws.

This is sorta the crux of why guys like Newbie get all confused. He thinks everything is black and white. Either you are for total anarchy and no government, or you want gov't to rule the day. It's like one big sports game. There are two sides and one must win.

 

The truth is that in any civilization a gov't is neccessary. Laws based on morality and safety nets in the private sector for protection of individuals are good. Bringing in funds (taxes) are not all bad. It's good to pool resources for things that we as individuals cannot do for ourselves. Things like national defense, public transportation/roads, ect. I cannot go out and build that or buy that myself.

 

One can be against big gov't yet for gov't. Everything is not mutually exclusive; and that's what guys like Newbie can't wrap their mellons around. Similary one can be against abortion at a fundamental level, while being opposed to mandated HC by the gov't. However for some wild reason he thinks it's a black and white issue. It's comical.

[MicktheGreat 1]

Here are a couple of links from independent, non-partisan websites evaluating the bill...

 

FactCheck.Org

PolitiFact.Com

 

Here's a quick rundown:

1. It is NOT government-run healthcare.

(At least not the model used in the UK, Canada, and Scandinavian countries.)

 

2. It will NOT dramatically increase or decrease premiums for most people.

(If any change occurs at all, most premiums will rise/drop only marginally. Those plans that do incur moderate increases in premiums will also incur increased benefits/coverage.)

 

3. It will NOT force taxpayers to pay for other people's abortions or provide new benefits for illegal immigrants.

(With certain extreme exceptions, the insurance premium -- not taxpayer subsidies -- will pay for abortions.)

 

4. It will NOT force most people to change their current insurance plan.

(There are a few exceptions; but, mostly, if you're happy with your current insurance, you can keep it.)

 

 

Basically, both sides of the aisle are lying/exaggerating about certain parts (surprise, surprise) and the bill is nowhere near as awesome/terrible as some proponents/opponents are claiming.

[BLS 313]

 

Says the gun-toting, paranoid loon.

 

 

Get your hair frosted this week homo?

[BLS 313]

Here are a couple of links from independent, non-partisan websites evaluating the bill...

 

FactCheck.Org

PolitiFact.Com

 

Here's a quick rundown:

1. It is NOT government-run healthcare.

(At least not the model used in the UK, Canada, and Scandinavian countries.)

 

2. It will NOT dramatically increase or decrease premiums for most people.

(If any change occurs at all, most premiums will rise/drop only marginally. Those plans that do incur moderate increases in premiums will also incur increased benefits/coverage.)

 

3. It will NOT force taxpayers to pay for other people's abortions or provide new benefits for illegal immigrants.

(With certain extreme exceptions, the insurance premium -- not taxpayer subsidies -- will pay for abortions.)

 

4. It will NOT force most people to change their current insurance plan.

(There are a few exceptions; but, mostly, if you're happy with your current insurance, you can keep it.)

 

 

Basically, both sides of the aisle are lying/exaggerating about certain parts (surprise, surprise) and the bill is nowhere near as awesome/terrible as some proponents/opponents are claiming.

 

Bullshit.

 

Since when can a website predict the future?

[NewbieJr 541]

Get your hair frosted this week homo?

Have you bought Twinkies and Spam and other non-perishables for the shelter? The revolution is coming!!!!!!

[Middle Aged Paunch 0]

Here are a couple of links from independent, non-partisan websites evaluating the bill...

 

FactCheck.Org

PolitiFact.Com

 

Here's a quick rundown:

1. It is NOT government-run healthcare.

(At least not the model used in the UK, Canada, and Scandinavian countries.)

 

2. It will NOT dramatically increase or decrease premiums for most people.

(If any change occurs at all, most premiums will rise/drop only marginally. Those plans that do incur moderate increases in premiums will also incur increased benefits/coverage.)

 

3. It will NOT force taxpayers to pay for other people's abortions or provide new benefits for illegal immigrants.

(With certain extreme exceptions, the insurance premium -- not taxpayer subsidies -- will pay for abortions.)

 

4. It will NOT force most people to change their current insurance plan.

(There are a few exceptions; but, mostly, if you're happy with your current insurance, you can keep it.)

Basically, both sides of the aisle are lying/exaggerating about certain parts (surprise, surprise) and the bill is nowhere near as awesome/terrible as some proponents/opponents are claiming.

 

You forgot one key word "Yet". The problem is, once the government gets their tenticles in something, they can't leave it alone. Many democratic politicians wanted the four items above included in the bill, but could not get the majority of their party to agree with them. And they wanted this bill passed now, so they sacrificed these items to get this done. Now, they have more time to work on these dissenters and get the rest of it implemented. It may not happen right away, it might not happen next year, but now that the toe is in teh door, it's just a matter of time.

[Frank M 181]

Bullshit.

 

Since when can a website predict the future?

 

 

Since when can you or any other of the dozen or so on here predicting that it will bring down America?

[Blitzen 0]

Here are a couple of links from independent, non-partisan websites evaluating the bill...

 

FactCheck.Org

PolitiFact.Com

 

Here's a quick rundown:

1. It is NOT government-run healthcare.

(At least not the model used in the UK, Canada, and Scandinavian countries.)

 

2. It will NOT dramatically increase or decrease premiums for most people.

(If any change occurs at all, most premiums will rise/drop only marginally. Those plans that do incur moderate increases in premiums will also incur increased benefits/coverage.)

 

3. It will NOT force taxpayers to pay for other people's abortions or provide new benefits for illegal immigrants.

(With certain extreme exceptions, the insurance premium -- not taxpayer subsidies -- will pay for abortions.)

 

4. It will NOT force most people to change their current insurance plan.

(There are a few exceptions; but, mostly, if you're happy with your current insurance, you can keep it.)

Basically, both sides of the aisle are lying/exaggerating about certain parts (surprise, surprise) and the bill is nowhere near as awesome/terrible as some proponents/opponents are claiming.

 

Interesting. But I cannot see how it will be possible in the future (although I think that statement is for the here and now and not for the future) for premiums to not increase dramatically as the population will age.

 

I actually find it interesting that neither of these two sites deals with whether or not costs will balloon in the future. And what will be done when they do. Because they will.

[TylerRoseFan 16]

the current health care contract excludes preexisting conditions. the current pricing is actuarily based on that exclusion. when you take away that exclusion, the overall cost of covered health care will go up. if the costs go up, then the premiums will go up....unless the insurance carriers cut other coverages.

 

to force that language on companies is going to directly increase the cost of coverage.

[MicktheGreat 1]

You forgot one key word "Yet". The problem is, once the government gets their tenticles in something, they can't leave it alone. Many democratic politicians wanted the four items above included in the bill, but could not get the majority of their party to agree with them. And they wanted this bill passed now, so they sacrificed these items to get this done. Now, they have more time to work on these dissenters and get the rest of it implemented. It may not happen right away, it might not happen next year, but now that the toe is in teh door, it's just a matter of time.

You're right in a sense. I'm just saying that this is what the bill is like right now. There's no way to accurately judge what the bill will eventually evolve into -- that's purely speculative. Over time, the bill could lead to improvements in healthcare or it could lead to problems in healthcare. Realistically, it will probably do both in different ways, but who knows???

 

[KSB2424 3,087]

You forgot one key word "Yet". The problem is, once the government gets their tenticles in something, they can't leave it alone. Many democratic politicians wanted the four items above included in the bill, but could not get the majority of their party to agree with them. And they wanted this bill passed now, so they sacrificed these items to get this done. Now, they have more time to work on these dissenters and get the rest of it implemented. It may not happen right away, it might not happen next year, but now that the toe is in teh door, it's just a matter of time.

The reason guys like Kucinich came on board is because Obama came out and stated this bill was a stepping stone to single payer. Obviously this bill is a shell of what they really wanted (thanks to the libertarians and repubs). However we all know how this movie ends, we've seen it before. Once the ball gets rolling it doesn't stop. The gov't claws just sank deeper into the private sector. And we don't even know the unintended consequeses that are a result.

 

The next couple years your insurance may not change. However your taxes will, at the state level for sure. And years from now your employer may end of dropping that benefit. Then the gov't will swoop in to 'save the day' and give us gov't run insurance. :oldrolleyes: That is how it works, we've seen it to many times. Then it costs more than they predict, so they have to cut something or raise taxes or print money to pay for it as the deficit will compound. It's a vicious cycle.

 

That's not doomsday words, it common sense based on the past. Considering this bill touches (in some way) every American, I don't think we are making to much of a big deal about it.

[Mungwater 589]

I also wonder if this is going to be like the system we have in the military. Say you're in a car wreck, if they find an ounce of alcohol or figure you weren't wearing a seatbelt, the bill is on you 100%

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Since when can you or any other of the dozen or so on here predicting that it will bring down America?

 

The Govt has a long history of:

 

1. Vastly underestimating the cost of entitlement programs.

 

2. Totally screwing things up with unintended consequences.

 

3. NEVER cutting spending when they promise too. ($500 Bilion in savings my arse)

 

4. Not setting aside money collected in advance of it being required for the intended purpose.....(Social Security lockbox anyone ). So the 4 years of increased taxes and fees they say they need to pay for this turd will get pi$$ed away well before then.

 

They will not cut $500 Billion in waste, they will not set aside money the first 4 years, they will not improve healthcare, and they will not cut healthcare costs.

[NewbieJr 541]

You forgot one key word "Yet". The problem is, once the government gets their tenticles in something, they can't leave it alone. Many democratic politicians wanted the four items above included in the bill, but could not get the majority of their party to agree with them. And they wanted this bill passed now, so they sacrificed these items to get this done. Now, they have more time to work on these dissenters and get the rest of it implemented. It may not happen right away, it might not happen next year, but now that the toe is in teh door, it's just a matter of time.

You do realize that they haven't decided to do away with elections, right?

[KSB2424 3,087]

You do realize that they haven't decided to do away with elections, right?

Once entitlements start it's almost impossible to stop. Even if you get a repub President and take back both the house and senate (which is what it would take). Almost impossible to stop this snow ball now that they pushed it down the hill.

 

On the bright side, yes we have elections, and since more people were against this bill than for it, hopefully we see a bloodshed in November.

[NewbieJr 541]

Once entitlements start it's almost impossible to stop. Even if you get a repub President and take back both the house and senate (which is what it would take). Almost impossible to stop this snow ball now that they pushed it down the hill.

 

On the bright side, yes we have elections, and since more people were against this bill than for it, hopefully we see a bloodshed in November.

It may be hard to totally get rid of this, but the healthcare system will undoubtedly get tweaked numerous times every year. Right now, no one is really sure how and if it's all going to work. Even the 'experts' who write articles and pretend to have all the answers are really just guessing. They may find that it works, in general, but that many parts have to be rewritten or removed. This plan may take 25 years to get right.

 

That's where elections will come in. As with every issue, each party will promise to take care of parts of it that they feel needs addressing. And guess who gets to vote? We do!!! Just like we did for Bush and Obama.

[GutterBoy 2,489]

3. It will NOT force taxpayers to pay for other people's abortions or provide new benefits for illegal immigrants.

(With certain extreme exceptions, the insurance premium -- not taxpayer subsidies -- will pay for abortions.)

 

3. Since the government if forcing you to buy insurance and pay insurance premiums, you are being forced to pay for abortions, correct?

 

Not that I really care, but just setting the record straight.

[GutterBoy 2,489]

the current health care contract excludes preexisting conditions. the current pricing is actuarily based on that exclusion. when you take away that exclusion, the overall cost of covered health care will go up. if the costs go up, then the premiums will go up....unless the insurance carriers cut other coverages.

 

to force that language on companies is going to directly increase the cost of coverage.

 

The theory is this cost will be offset with new healthy members who will be forced to buy. Not saying it's going to work, but that's the theory.

[GutterBoy 2,489]

Once entitlements start it's almost impossible to stop. Even if you get a repub President and take back both the house and senate (which is what it would take). Almost impossible to stop this snow ball now that they pushed it down the hill.

 

Yes but there are better ways to achieve the same results (greater coverage) with different means that would actually reduce costs within the system. If we can get the right leadership, it can be sold politically as a way that doesn't reduce benefits.

[NewbieJr 541]

MAn, I love how SUDDENLY, everyone has all the answers on how to fix healthcare in this country. LIke everyone here, I have no idea if this thing will work or not, but like the leadership of the last eight years, nothing was said or done about the problems and suddenly, because someone actually had teh balls to stick his neck out there and do something about it, they're all coming up with their two cents. Amazing.

[GutterBoy 2,489]

MAn, I love how SUDDENLY, everyone has all the answers on how to fix healthcare in this country. LIke everyone here, I have no idea if this thing will work or not, but like the leadership of the last eight years, nothing was said or done about the problems and suddenly, because someone actually had teh balls to stick his neck out there and do something about it, they're all coming up with their two cents. Amazing.

 

Dude, this has been the topic of conversation for over a year. Of course people are going to have their opinions. Do you expect all of us to just sit here and not question the laws that are passed down to us by a slim margin of criminals in Washington?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

MAn, I love how SUDDENLY, everyone has all the answers on how to fix healthcare in this country. LIke everyone here, I have no idea if this thing will work or not, but like the leadership of the last eight years, nothing was said or done about the problems and suddenly, because someone actually had teh balls to stick his neck out there and do something about it, they're all coming up with their two cents. Amazing.

 

There have been several proposals that have offered options to Obamacare that have been widely discussed since the debate started.

 

The fact you are ignorant of this doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Keep your head in the sand.

[NewbieJr 541]

There have been several proposals that have offered options to Obamacare that have been widely discussed since the debate started.

Yeah, once the Republicans realized that someone had the balls to actually do something about an obviously broken system that went ignored during their entire eight year run, they decided to come up with their own solutions. Big focking deal. Too little too late.

 

If your party hadn't buried its head in the sand for eight years, they wouldn't have been in this position. Suddenly, everyone of the asswholes had a thought on it.

[MicktheGreat 1]

3. Since the government if forcing you to buy insurance and pay insurance premiums, you are being forced to pay for abortions, correct?

 

Not that I really care, but just setting the record straight.

 

Personally, I do think it's probably a mistake to force people to buy insurance if they are of right mind and, for some weird reason, actually prefer not to have insurance. I would venture to guess that this represents a very small portion of the uninsured -- though I could be wrong. [Coincidentally, Obama has flip-flopped on this issue. He used to be against making everyone buy insurance. Now he seems to be for it.]

 

With this particular issue, I think your conclusion is a bit off. From my understanding of the bill (as it currently is), if one does not receive insurance through an employer, one will have the opportunity to choose his/her insurance plan from a number of exchange programs. Some of these plans may cover abortion, some may not (in fact, I believe that the bill requires that states provide both types of plans for people to choose from). Abortions will essentially be paid for by virtue of one paying his/her insurance premium for his/her insurance plan and NOT taxpayer subsidies. Thus, if you elect to use one of the exchange insurance plans and you feel passionately against abortion, it would be your prerogative to choose a plan that does not pay for abortions. Your conclusion seems to presume that everyone is selecting the same plan (and/or that all plans include abortion), which is not the case.

 

The exception to this federal subsidy of abortion is in extreme cases of rape and incest, I believe.

 

There's actually a very good article about this on Politifact.com

Here's the link: Paying for Abortions

 

[Middle Aged Paunch 0]

It may be hard to totally get rid of this, but the healthcare system will undoubtedly get tweaked numerous times every year. Right now, no one is really sure how and if it's all going to work. Even the 'experts' who write articles and pretend to have all the answers are really just guessing. They may find that it works, in general, but that many parts have to be rewritten or removed. This plan may take 25 years to get right.

 

That's where elections will come in. As with every issue, each party will promise to take care of parts of it that they feel needs addressing. And guess who gets to vote? We do!!! Just like we did for Bush and Obama.

 

The problem isn't who is in office or what party has control, it is that the government has control. Once you hand over this control, the costs will go up.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Yeah, once the Republicans realized that someone had the balls to actually do something about an obviously broken system that went ignored during their entire eight year run, they decided to come up with their own solutions. Big focking deal. Too little too late.

 

If your party hadn't buried its head in the sand for eight years, they wouldn't have been in this position. Suddenly, everyone of the asswholes had a thought on it.

 

Yeah, tort reform first came up at the Obama "healthcare summit" with the reps.

 

Your level of cluelessness is truly astounding.

[NewbieJr 541]

Yeah, tort reform first came up at the Obama "healthcare summit" with the reps.

 

Your level of cluelessness is truly astounding.

Where was the leadership to get it passed?

[GutterBoy 2,489]

Yeah, once the Republicans realized that someone had the balls to actually do something about an obviously broken system that went ignored during their entire eight year run, they decided to come up with their own solutions. Big focking deal. Too little too late.

 

If your party hadn't buried its head in the sand for eight years, they wouldn't have been in this position. Suddenly, everyone of the asswholes had a thought on it.

 

 

What the f are you talking about? This isn't about political parties, this is real life crap here. This affects everyone. Stop with the "my side, your side" BS. You sound like a child.

 

a ) The system is not "broken". That was a lie created in order to push the "fix".

b ) The problem with the system is too much cost in it. This bill doesn't address that.

 

You can talk all you want about political parties but the majority of us don't care about that, we care about our healthcare and what's going to happen to it.