Opinions Needed on Collusion Case

[Bui 1]

The 0-7 guy in our league just sent Wes Welker to The first place 5-2 team in exchange for Jeremy Maclin and LaDanian Tomlinson. First place guy is his roommate. Seems fishy and I am pushing hard for a veto. Best receiver in fantasy for a No. 2 receiver and a waiver wire RB. Anyone else share my opinion or am I outta line?

[Vikings4ever 496]

Maclin is the number 9 WR in non-PPR leagues. Maclin + LT2 = 110 points so far, Welker = 116 points.

 

While I'd rather have Welker, no veto.

[typhus 13]

The 0-7 guy in our league just sent Wes Welker to The first place 5-2 team in exchange for Jeremy Maclin and LaDanian Tomlinson. First place guy is his roommate. Seems fishy and I am pushing hard for a veto. Best receiver in fantasy for a No. 2 receiver and a waiver wire RB. Anyone else share my opinion or am I outta line?

 

 

FF rule #1,,,, never ever ever play in a league with two sausage stuffers that share a single room apt..

[Stewburtx8 67]

The 0-7 guy in our league just sent Wes Welker to The first place 5-2 team in exchange for Jeremy Maclin and LaDanian Tomlinson. First place guy is his roommate. Seems fishy and I am pushing hard for a veto. Best receiver in fantasy for a No. 2 receiver and a waiver wire RB. Anyone else share my opinion or am I outta line?

 

 

If you REALLY think it is collusion, ask the 0-7 team how he thinks this trade improves his team. If he can give any type of rational answer, then I think you have to let the trade go. If he just says "I don't really care anymore," or something very unconvincing, then I think you might have to veto it. But Maclin is a top 10 WR so far this year, so the trade is not THAT far out of line.

[Bui 1]

If you REALLY think it is collusion, ask the 0-7 team how he thinks this trade improves his team. If he can give any type of rational answer, then I think you have to let the trade go. If he just says "I don't really care anymore," or something very unconvincing, then I think you might have to veto it. But Maclin is a top 10 WR so far this year, so the trade is not THAT far out of line.

 

See Maclin is top 10 but Wes Welker is top 1.

 

LT is waiver trash in a ten teamer. Essentially, it's Maclin for Welker which is BS imo.

[KP96 0]

agree with stewbert. ask him how his team improved. i mean, his rb's have gotta really stink for lt to help him. if he doesn't, then wth was he thinking other than helping is buddy?

[Stewburtx8 67]

See Maclin is top 10 but Wes Welker is top 1.

 

LT is waiver trash in a ten teamer. Essentially, it's Maclin for Welker which is BS imo.

 

 

Your job as commissioner isn't to decide if the trade is fair or not, it is to make sure there is no collusion involved. This is why you ask him how he feels this trade improves his team. If he made the trade in good faith, then he will be able to give you a rationale response and will probably be adamant about it. Just my opinion.

[Bui 1]

agree with stewbert. ask him how his team improved. i mean, his rb's have gotta really stink for lt to help him. if he doesn't, then wth was he thinking other than helping is buddy?

 

His RBs are bad but not that bad. Mendenhall, DeAngelo, Battle. LT is not an upgrade over ANY of those...

[steelers2101 7]

His RBs are bad but not that bad. Mendenhall, DeAngelo, Battle. LT is not an upgrade over ANY of those...

 

1. That's YOUR opinion.

 

2. Such certainty when it isn't your opinion that matters is dangerous.

 

3. What is HIS opinion on how LT improves his team. (2 of those RBs haven't had their bye yet) One thing you should ask though, is since LT is on bye, he's essentially trading Welker straight up for Maclin this week. That said, maybe he's not a strategic genius, but that doesn't mean it's collusive.

[Bui 1]

1. That's YOUR opinion.

 

2. Such certainty when it isn't your opinion that matters is dangerous.

 

3. What is HIS opinion on how LT improves his team. (2 of those RBs haven't had their bye yet) One thing you should ask though, is since LT is on bye, he's essentially trading Welker straight up for Maclin this week. That said, maybe he's not a strategic genius, but that doesn't mean it's collusive.

 

1. Yes, I know.

 

2. Noted.

 

3. Does context play no role here? Terrible return value, at 0-7 with no chance of finishing .500... makes this deal with the first place guy who is his roomie? Idk man sometimes you have to incorporate context

[vroompac 2]

It may not be collusion but damn it looks shady

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

His RBs are bad but not that bad. Mendenhall, DeAngelo, Battle. LT is not an upgrade over ANY of those...

 

LT is an upgrade over POS DeAngelo, hell I am an upgrade over DeAngelo.

[O'ky 0]

Did you ask for the explanation on how it improves his team yet?!?!? That has the potential to give you a concrete answer. Do that first then come debate more.

[TomServo 0]

Did you ask for the explanation on how it improves his team yet?!?!? That has the potential to give you a concrete answer. Do that first then come debate more.

 

Sometimes collusion is all about not offering a trade to ANYONE else, and not trying to make your team REALLY better.

 

A WR for another WR does not improve his team. If he's 0-7, he has problems at QB or RB, and he could definitely move Welker for a strong RB. The trade is nonsense.

[SameSongNDance 0]

It is indeed collusion, I think that's blatantly obvious. Everyone around here seems to have a "prove it's collusion dummy!" type of attitude. Sad thing is, it's next to impossible to "prove" either way. You have to take their word for it which just doesn't cut it. In this case, it IS all about context. Veto the trade, kick them both out of the league if this is a yearly thing and be happy knowing you made the correct decision.

[djp2k11 0]

Smells like collusion to me. Some people are trying to say hold off unless you can prove it which is silly. This isn't a murder investigation where you could wrongly accuse an innocent and get him killed, this is fantasy football. A solid level of justified suspicion should be plenty to veto.

[1b4igo 0]

Seems like collusion to me. Top 5 guys in my leagues are untouchable unless you really offer a great deal or they are hurting at a position. An 0-7 guy trading the top player at a position is always suspicious unless he's adding multiple starters to his line up.

[GridironGuzzlers 3]

Welker started on a blistering pace, many would agree he won't keep it up. Maclin was somewhat questionable sarting the season coming off an illness, so his value could go up. LT is a nice throw in. We can't predict the future, and we all value some players differently. I'm an Eagles fan and I didn't want Maclin on draft day, and now I wish I had him instead of Wayne. You never know. Or maybe if you're 0-7 you're not allowed to trade. if he was 4-3 would you still think collusion? I say good trade

[nicewolf64 0]

how many people would have even blinked an eye at this trade prior to the season? all thats changed is that welker came out super hot, but that doesnt mean that he'll outperform maclin the rest of the way. this is the kind of bitching that takes the fun out of so many leagues.

[Giants Fan 85]

FF rule #1,,,, never ever ever play in a league with two sausage stuffers that share a single room apt..

 

Or a dude and his wife/girlfriend.

[Maroon Bells 18]

See the post a couple of weeks ago where someone traded Garcon for Colston, which according to this board, was a travesty, an all out rape...of the guy who got Colston.

[chroniciguana 13]

Right now, everything you have that points to a conspiracy is circumstantial. Owners are roommates, one is out of the hunt while the other is in first place, etc. As a result, this is one of the rare "veto this trade" threads where any proposed deal merits a second look simply because the potential for collusion must be considered.

 

As others have said, ask a few questions - even though you aren't the commissioner. Go to a site like CBS Sports and see what kind of value Welker is fetching in trades. Then let the Welker owner (and everyone else) see what he's fetching in trades (you'll find package deals involving Fred Jackson and Welker). Publicly dangle an informal but clearly better offer in front of the guy and gauge his response. Then, if your league has one, use the message board to argue your belief the Welker owner is allowing himself to be prison raped. Don't mention collusion.

 

Being 0-7 is bad enough. Being made to look like a dunce doesn't help. If the roomies did, in fact, come up with the bright idea of putting together a super team and splitting the profits, odds are one will decide it isn't worth the scorn and ridicule - and walk away.

[heavy-set 39]

"its not what you know, its what you can prove" --Denzel washington's character in Training Day.

 

 

the trade is legit, but its bullcrap. Maclin's stats are skewed by 1 game, he has been sucky every other game. Lt2 is a backup rb on his own team, but they both = welker in terms of FF production.

 

with that being said, I would not invite them back next year. or have 4 votes against = a veto.

[heavy-set 39]

how many people would have even blinked an eye at this trade prior to the season? all thats changed is that welker came out super hot, but that doesnt mean that he'll outperform maclin the rest of the way. this is the kind of bitching that takes the fun out of so many leagues.

agreed.

 

agreed. at what point does performance trump ADP or vice versa. i'd let it go through, but with a stink eye

[JtmoneyJag 25]

how many people would have even blinked an eye at this trade prior to the season? all thats changed is that welker came out super hot, but that doesnt mean that he'll outperform maclin the rest of the way. this is the kind of bitching that takes the fun out of so many leagues.

 

This point is ridiculous. You trade based on what you know. With this argument, you could trade Cam Newton now for Matt Ryan. I mean, it doesn't mean Matt Ryan won't outproduce him the rest of the way. Are you people dillussional?

 

Also, LT isn't worth anything. There are RB's on the waiver wire every week that offer more value or at least more upside. It is blatantly obvious to me, but you guys just can't seem to call it like it is. What is up with the treading on egg shells around here?

[420allstars 13]

I very rarely say this but I think you have to do somthing about that one..

is the 0-7 player really..really bad at FF? does he understand value at all?

maybe he really thinks LT will regain 2006 form??

[JtmoneyJag 25]

And one more point. You do realize what colluding means right? They collude to gain something, both parties. No one is going to say, "yeah, I colluded". Really? You can make an argument for anything. All the 0-7 guy has to say is I believe Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way. End of story. "Okay Mr. Blatantly Obvious Colluder, guess i'll have to let it through then since you made a coherent thought".

[Portis26 0]

The 0-7 guy in our league just sent Wes Welker to The first place 5-2 team in exchange for Jeremy Maclin and LaDanian Tomlinson. First place guy is his roommate. Seems fishy and I am pushing hard for a veto. Best receiver in fantasy for a No. 2 receiver and a waiver wire RB. Anyone else share my opinion or am I outta line?

 

When is trade deadline? If it's not before week 7, then your SOL. Gotta address this stuff in off season with rules!

[Stewburtx8 67]

And one more point. You do realize what colluding means right? They collude to gain something, both parties. No one is going to say, "yeah, I colluded". Really? You can make an argument for anything. All the 0-7 guy has to say is I believe Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way. End of story. "Okay Mr. Blatantly Obvious Colluder, guess i'll have to let it through then since you made a coherent thought".

 

 

What if he truly believes Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way? Isn't he entitled to that belief? Is there a decent chance he could end up being right? It's not that far fetched. Welker is having a career year. He's never scored more than 8 TD's in a season before. Scandrick just held him under 50 yards in his last game. Do I think the trade is fair? No. But that't not the point. If this 0-7 team truly believes this trade makes his team better, then he should be allowed to make it.

 

This is why you put him on the spot FIRST and ask him why he thinks this trade improves his team. All I am saying is do your due dilligence as a commissioner (or other owner in the league) BEFORE rushing to judgment. I have a feeling his answer will tell a lot. If he just says "I think Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way," with no furthur detail, I would sense something shady is going on. BUT if he really made this trade in good faith, he will be upset that you even questioned him, and will go in to much furthur detail about why he thinks this trade benefits his team. He also may just say "I'm 0-7 and don't really care anymore," and then you could reverse the trade based on that statement. Just my opinion.

[Dashow28 6]

I don't know about this one, it does seem extremely fishy. Like other posters said, ask lots of questions as to why it would help his team. Another poster mentioned offering a better trade or going to CBS and look at the trades for Welker there. That is a GREAT idea. Show him some of those and then see how he responds when he could have gotten MUCH better. At the same time, not everybody values players the same way. Last year I traded Braylon Edwards and Mike Tolbert for Reggie Wayne and I was told that I was fleecing the Reggie Wayne owner. Name wise...yea I guess so, but it sure didn't turn out that way production wise. To make a long story short, because that guy got Tolbert, he was able to come outta nowhere (sub .500 before the trade)and take a 3rd place prize, winning pretty much every game after the trade. You never know what can happen, but all you can do at this point is ask questions.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

What if he truly believes Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way? Isn't he entitled to that belief? Is there a decent chance he could end up being right? It's not that far fetched. Welker is having a career year. He's never scored more than 8 TD's in a season before. Scandrick just held him under 50 yards in his last game. Do I think the trade is fair? No. But that't not the point. If this 0-7 team truly believes this trade makes his team better, then he should be allowed to make it.

 

This is why you put him on the spot FIRST and ask him why he thinks this trade improves his team. All I am saying is do your due dilligence as a commissioner (or other owner in the league) BEFORE rushing to judgment. I have a feeling his answer will tell a lot. If he just says "I think Maclin will outscore Welker the rest of the way," with no furthur detail, I would sense something shady is going on. BUT if he really made this trade in good faith, he will be upset that you even questioned him, and will go in to much furthur detail about why he thinks this trade benefits his team. He also may just say "I'm 0-7 and don't really care anymore," and then you could reverse the trade based on that statement. Just my opinion.

 

If it is collussion he won't say the last part. That is the point, you don't collude to admit it. This trade looks fishy before even knowing the guy is 0-7, trading to the #1 team and is his roommate. If you can't see that then don't know what to tell you. I know you guys have brains around here, let's use them.

 

On a side note stew, thanks for setting up the challenge. We may disagree here (strongly), but just ones opinion over another.

[Stewburtx8 67]

If it is collussion he won't say the last part. That is the point, you don't collude to admit it. This trade looks fishy before even knowing the guy is 0-7, trading to the #1 team and is his roommate. If you can't see that then don't know what to tell you. I know you guys have brains around here, let's use them.

 

On a side note stew, thanks for setting up the challenge. We may disagree here (strongly), but just ones opinion over another.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you. This very well could be collusion. I just disagree with automatically assuming it is collusion and reversing the trade. I just usually give someone the benefit of the doubt and at least ask the necessary questions before making a final determination. While he won't come out and admit collusion, I think his answers will make things a lot clearer. I think someone who makes a trade in good faith will be a lot more adamant about defending a trade, and will have several somewhat plausible reasons for doing it.

 

No problem setting up the challenge. Everyone has opinions and disagrees on here. It's part of the fun of discussing topics on a fantasy football message board.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

I don't necessarily disagree with you. This very well could be collusion. I just disagree with automatically assuming it is collusion and reversing the trade. I just usually give someone the benefit of the doubt and at least ask the necessary questions before making a final determination. While he won't come out and admit collusion, I think his answers will make things a lot clearer. I think someone who makes a trade in good faith will be a lot more adamant about defending a trade, and will have several somewhat plausible reasons for doing it.

 

No problem setting up the challenge. Everyone has opinions and disagrees on here. It's part of the fun of discussing topics on a fantasy football message board.

 

Fair enough. I just call it like I see it, but it won't hurt to talk with him. I'm taking it down this week in the challenge!

[wild_and_crazy_guy 5]

Instead of jumping into the middle of this specific trade, just ask the 0-7 guy if he's throwing in the towel for the season...especially if he hasn't tried to make positive roster moves lately. His options should be to either (a) try to win every week, or (b ) quit the league. IMHO - you'd rather have the owner quit outright instead of having him selectivly give his players away to his roomate. If he's quitting the league, then assume that he quit before the Wes Welker trade and reverse it. There is always the possibility that the 0-7 owner is managing his team the best that he can, and he is just not very good at fantasy football.

[Bui 1]

Thanks a bunch for the opinions everybody! The 0-7 owner hasn't made jack crap for roster moves recently, and left bye week players in his lineup the past two weeks. It's clear he doesn't give a crap and the whole thing is very fishy to me. I ended up vetoing it...

[Gladiators 1,904]

I haven't read every post in detail, but has the 0-7 team been setting his lineup, switching players for bye week, adding/dropping guys, or shopping welker to other teams before going to his bed buddy?

 

For the benefit of the league as a whole, you need to ask for the rationale of the trade before vetoing. No one wants to play in a league where they can't manage their own roster. If the answers are sketchy, he hasn't been setting his lineup, and hasn't been making any WW moves, that's much more of a slam dunk on collusion.

[Bui 1]

I haven't read every post in detail, but has the 0-7 team been setting his lineup, switching players for bye week, adding/dropping guys, or shopping welker to other teams before going to his bed buddy?

 

For the benefit of the league as a whole, you need to ask for the rationale of the trade before vetoing. No one wants to play in a league where they can't manage their own roster. If the answers are sketchy, he hasn't been setting his lineup, and hasn't been making any WW moves, that's much more of a slam dunk on collusion.

 

As i stated in the post above, he's made one roster move the whole year. Rarely ever sets his lineup. Very suspicious stuff...

[Gladiators 1,904]

As i stated in the post above, he's made one roster move the whole year. Rarely ever sets his lineup. Very suspicious stuff...

 

Yeah...I wrote that reply on my phone and your response wasn't posted at the time I hit reply. The information in your previous post is good to know and important towards the determination.

 

I wouldn't play in a league with a guy like that for more than 1 year...

[patweisers44 697]

LT is an upgrade over POS DeAngelo, hell I am an upgrade over DeAngelo.

Dammit. I knew i should have put in a waiver claim on you last week. Fock!

[steelers2101 7]

Thanks a bunch for the opinions everybody! The 0-7 owner hasn't made jack crap for roster moves recently, and left bye week players in his lineup the past two weeks. It's clear he doesn't give a crap and the whole thing is very fishy to me. I ended up vetoing it...

 

 

That context does make it fishy. Indifferent owners shouldn't be trading.