njacinto 4 Posted November 19, 2011 I'm hearing so much comparison between Tim Tebow and Lebron James... with Lebron good for 3 quarters while sucking during the 4th quarter... and Tebow sucking for 3 quarter, while heroic in the 4th... What I think is a more intriguing comparison is Tebow versus Cam... No one doubts Cam's QB skills, no one doubts Cam's statistical achievements, and no one seems to be worried about Cam's inability to win the game in the 4th quarter... *BUT THE TRUTH IS... Cam's 2-7 with loads of talent on offense... *AND THE TRUTH IS... Tebow's 4-1 as a starter and arguably invincible given the ball on the last drive to win the game for his team... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Mueller 146 Posted November 19, 2011 Regarding the records the NFC south is way better than the afc west. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njacinto 4 Posted November 19, 2011 Regarding the records the NFC south is way better than the afc west. True... but Carolina has lost to Arizona (with a chance to win at the end), Minnesota (with a chance to win at the end), and Tennessee... not exactly powerhouse teams. Denver has recently beaten Oakland (a decent team) and KC (before Cassell went down) on the ROAD... before beating the Jets on the national stage... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,561 Posted November 19, 2011 Denvers D improved tremendously with Von Miller and Elvis back. Car.'s defense has a way to go. Im a fan of both players but it is unfair to compare who is better able to produce wins at this point IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teren 2 Posted November 19, 2011 In the 4 games that Tebow has won the Denver defense has held the opponents under 15 three of those games. Carolinas defense for the year is giving up 26.3 points per game on average. (30th in the nfl) If Cam's defense was giving up 10 points less he may have a few more wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njacinto 4 Posted November 20, 2011 Denvers D improved tremendously with Von Miller and Elvis back. Car.'s defense has a way to go. Im a fan of both players but it is unfair to compare who is better able to produce wins at this point IMO. The point I'm trying to make is... can one person make a difference on the WHOLE TEAM?? Despite playing on just his side of the ball... Pre-Tebow: Denver has given up 28 points a game... Post-Tebow: Denver (4-1) has given up 19.4 points a game... Carolina: Carolina (2-7) has given up 26 points a game, including 1-5 in games where decided by 7 or LESS points... They've been in 6 close games, but could only manage to win ONE game when given the opportunity... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,561 Posted November 20, 2011 When denver plays the best player on the field is von miller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cnasty 5 Posted November 20, 2011 It's wayyyyy too early to start making these kinds of analyses. There's just not enough tape out there on either player to form a fully educated answer to a question like this. Different types of players. Different types of teams. Different schedules. Different divisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirensong 111 Posted November 20, 2011 It's wayyyyy too early to start making these kinds of analyses. There's just not enough tape out there on either player to form a fully educated answer to a question like this. Different types of players. Different types of teams. Different schedules. Different divisions. sane answer. prepping for carolina does not impose unusual problems. teams have no idea whatsoever what fox & co. are going to do on a week-to-week basis. prepping for an option offense takes serious commitment at the scheme level. as an analogue, remember when the run-and-shoot first came out? teams had nightmares stopping it, even though the players involved weren't all that great. but gimmicks don't last long int he NFL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,091 Posted November 20, 2011 The point I'm trying to make is... can one person make a difference on the WHOLE TEAM?? Despite playing on just his side of the ball... Pre-Tebow: Denver has given up 28 points a game... Post-Tebow: Denver (4-1) has given up 19.4 points a game... Carolina: Carolina (2-7) has given up 26 points a game, including 1-5 in games where decided by 7 or LESS points... They've been in 6 close games, but could only manage to win ONE game when given the opportunity... I think there are two reasons for this... 1. When teams think they are playing a team that can't score they get ultra-conservative on offense. 2. After Detroit spanked the Broncos, openly mocking them the entire time, I'm sure it spurred a little something in the whole team. Also, everyone is throwing out that 1-5 in games decided by 7 points or less stat, but it's a little misleading. I know for a fact in at least two of those games, Carolina put up a garbage TD late to make it look closer than it actually was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njacinto 4 Posted November 20, 2011 It's wayyyyy too early to start making these kinds of analyses. There's just not enough tape out there on either player to form a fully educated answer to a question like this. Different types of players. Different types of teams. Different schedules. Different divisions. Thanks everyone for the input… there’s been good feedback and logical points… The primary reason I started this discussion is due help move away from the Tebow/Lebron comparison and help transition it to a more relevant comparison… Tebow versus Cam Newton... especially in close games. Since week 1, the NFL commentators from NFL network and ESPN (especially the former NFL jocks) have slammed Tebow for numerous reasons – bad mechanics, bad decision-making, bad QB instincts… While at the same time, they’ve been a LOVE FEST with Cam Newton – great mechanics, strong arm, great running ability, and great accuracy. In a sense, the more they praise Cam, the easier it became to criticize Tebow. Despite Cam’s inability to win close games, the commentators give him a free pass, saying, “His team’s defense has to improve,” “He’s still a winner,” and “His future is bright.” Despite Tebow’s ability to win close games, the commentators continue the criticisms, saying, “His mechanics are still bad,” “The team CANNOT sustain this style of play,” and “It’s all smoke and mirrors… teams will figure him out.” We all LOVE Cam’s gaudy statistics, his physical skills, his accuracy, and his electrifying plays – he’s the perfect QB. On the hand, I’d like to think that Tebow’s defensive teammates truly believe that if they keep the game close, they believe that Tebow CAN win the game for them at the end… Cam really impresses, but Tebow inspires… Here’s a few stats that seems to be overlooked… In 9 starts, Cam Newton has 11 TD passes and 10 Interceptions In 5 starts, Tim Tebow has 7 TD passes and 1 (ONE) Interception In the 4th quarter, Cam Newton has a QB rating of 79.8 In the 4th quarter, Tim Tebow has a QB rating of 107 (Yes, 107) http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/situationalstats http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buttmonkey 8 Posted November 20, 2011 Compare last year's stats of Tebow to Cam's - that's a fair assessment. Tebow had last year's training camp, a full NFL season with starts and you're comparing him to a rookie. Get real. I'll take Cam over Tebow in fantasy or real football. Can't wait until teams show this fraud for what he is. Good luck then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njacinto 4 Posted November 20, 2011 Compare last year's stats of Tebow to Cam's - that's a fair assessment. Tebow had last year's training camp, a full NFL season with starts and you're comparing him to a rookie. Get real. I'll take Cam over Tebow in fantasy or real football. Can't wait until teams show this fraud for what he is. Good luck then! Actually... Tebow's stats last year as a starter match up quite well to Cam's this year, thank you... Last year as a starter, he did beat a Houston team that was trying to get into the playoffs in a very close game 24-23. In addition, Cam was groomed during training camp to be the starter... while Tebow has ALWAYS had to practice with the 2nd or 3rd stringers... Besides, he's had to endure training camp with everyone in management itching to drop him or trade him. Also, Cam's had great weapons around him on offense... What does Tebow have? Willis McGahee and Erick Decker? Lastly, the comparison is NOT about who I would take over whom (I've even said Cam is the PERFECT QB)... In fact, I agree with you that I WOULD take Cam in fantasy AND REAL football... My friend, the comparison (this thread is about) is over their performance this year to WIN their GAMES... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
montana 89 Posted November 20, 2011 In the 4 games that Tebow has won the Denver defense has held the opponents under 15 three of those games. Carolinas defense for the year is giving up 26.3 points per game on average. (30th in the nfl) If Cam's defense was giving up 10 points less he may have a few more wins. ^ This. I live in the Charlotte area & I've watched a ton of Panther games. Their D is terrible - mostly due to injuries & poor play/angles taken by "green" backups. Their SPTs aren't so special - actually, in the lower 5% too. Save for a game or two, Carolina has been in just about every game into the 4th. They just haven't learned how to win yet. Make no mistake, this team is on the rise....no matter what the record book says. They need a solid #2 WR, get a few guys healthy on D, add a solid CB & maybe a DL that can apply pressure opposite Johnson & they will be very good next year & for a few more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neek 0 Posted November 20, 2011 arguably invincible given the ball on the last drive to win the game for his team... I know you didn't just say that after 5 games in the NFL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 128 Posted November 20, 2011 Who gets more points the rest of the year? Tebow or Newton? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
