Why is P. Manning in seriousMVP consideration?

[Chronic Husker 85]

[listen2me 23 1,924]

 

Awesome. I may go put on my Rodgers jersey and color my face with lip stick.

 

And I'd prolly hit before I would think about touching your scary looking wife.

[tikigods 76]

And I'd prolly hit before I would think about touching your scary looking wife.

 

Quality.

[Strike 5,844]

 

What if Denver loses next week? Which season would you say was more successful? This or last years?

 

We would have finished at the exact same spot as we did last year so the season's would be comparable. The difference is we wouldn't be lamenting the possibility of having the same QB next year like we were after the season last year.

[Strike 5,844]

Just because nobody agrees with him doesn't mean he's taking a beating.

 

Right now he's making valid arguments for why Rodgers deserves MVP over Manning.

Everyone else disagrees, but nobody is making arguments for why Manning deserves it (outside of Denver's record)

 

So let's hear it. What has Manning done this year that warrants the MVP over Rodgers?

 

Yes they have. 11-5 versus 13-3 with a bye. The record matters. But that argument gets dismissed due to Denver's schedule, which they have no say in deciding. Not to mention that the AFC West was thought to be much better than it ended up being before the season started. So, whether you agree with it or not, please don't say there isn't an argument in Manning's favor.

 

And one of his arguments is that Denver has better receivers than GB. Most objective observers would say the opposite.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Yes they have. 11-5 versus 13-3 with a bye. But that argument gets dismissed due to Denver's schedule, which they have no say in deciding. Not to mention that the AFC West was thought to be much better than it ended up being before the season started. So, whether you agree with it or not, please don't say there isn't an argument in Manning's favor.

 

So the fact that Rodgers really did earn a bye if not for replacement refs doesn't matter? If not for the dumbest call of all time he would have had a bye as well. Instead he lost to a 10 win team at their place with the real MVP running like a madman in the final week.

 

Byes are overrated anyway as seen in the last several years.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

No one said he had better WRs. He has the best one out of either team and only true #1 on either team. Thomas is a faster version of Brandon Marshall just about. Manning has the better overall team, that was said. He has the better defense. Much better Oline. Better running game.

[Strike 5,844]

So the fact that Rodgers really did earn a bye if not for replacement refs doesn't matter? If not for the dumbest call of all time he would have had a bye as well. Instead he lost to a 10 win team at their place with the real MVP running like a madman in the final week.

 

Byes are overrated anyway as seen in the last several years.

 

Quit whining. What would there record have been without whatever bad call you're whining about?

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Quit whining. What would there record have been without whatever bad call you're whining about?

 

Sorry I thought the worst call in sports could be factored in here without it sounding like whining. I figured you could give me that much.

 

They won the game and it was called a loss. I'm not doing a woulda, shoulda, coulda. They were robbed of a win and it is easy to see.

 

But because it wa sthe worst call ever that is somehow Rodger's fault.

[Strike 5,844]

No one said he had better WRs. He has the best one out of either team and only true #1 on either team. Thomas is a faster version of Brandon Marshall just about. Manning has the better overall team, that was said. He has the better defense. Much better Oline. Better running game.

 

A lot of this is simply your opinion. For example, Denver averages like 9 yds/game rushing more than GB. They're both middle of the road. Not really a good stat to even mention in this discussion.

[Strike 5,844]

Sorry I thought the worst call in sports could be factored in here without it sounding like whining. I figured you could give me that much.

 

They won the game and it was called a loss. I'm not doing a woulda, shoulda, coulda. They were robbed of a win and it is easy to see.

 

But because it wa sthe worst call ever that is somehow Rodger's fault.

 

No, it's still whining. Bad calls happen. All the time. With or without replacement refs. But you ignored my question. What would there record have been if they had won that game?

[listen2me 23 1,924]

No, it's still whining. Bad calls happen. All the time. With or without replacement refs. But you ignored my question. What would there record have been if they had won that game?

 

12-4 and had a bye.

 

Yes 1 less win than Manning in twice as good of a division. The division had 2 10 win teams other than the Packers. And the bottom team had one of the best players in football. It was the best division in football. And Manning's division was the worst. Neither are that disputable. But that all doesn't count because teh AFC WEST looked better than it ended up being before the season. KC the worst team. Oakland is annually terrible. And SD is never better than a .500 type team. I don't see how it was....but if you say so.

 

Can't change the fact that one was terrible. One was good. And how good a division is pretty relevant. If you say it isn't then I don't know what to say.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Yes they have. 11-5 versus 13-3 with a bye. The record matters. But that argument gets dismissed due to Denver's schedule, which they have no say in deciding. Not to mention that the AFC West was thought to be much better than it ended up being before the season started. So, whether you agree with it or not, please don't say there isn't an argument in Manning's favor.

 

And one of his arguments is that Denver has better receivers than GB. Most objective observers would say the opposite.

 

Is there anything besides Denver's record that makes Manning the MVP?

[FeelingMN 273]

AD is the MVP because without him the Vikings would be drafting #3 again this year. Dude was the only playmaker on offense the last 7 weeks of the season.....and look at his stats those weeks. Dominant. But people do talk about his comeback from injury too. That's part of the story. It's not FF MVP. It's NFL MVP, and while numbers obviously play a huge role in determining who gets the damn award, part of it is an overall value of a player to his team. It's not something you can really quantify. Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are all hugely valuable to their teams, and I don't have a problem considering Manning's backstory at all.

 

Stats are misleading. Rodgers threw 6 TDs against the Texans in what was a blowout after the first quarter. Manning and Brady might have better numbers if they didn't have legit running games.....something Green Bay doesn't. So who cares about stats per se.....that's what the offensive player of the year award is for.

 

Denver is a legit championship contender. Something it wasn't last year. As has been pointed out, Denver is still the same team as last year.....except they have serious championship expectations......solely because of Manning. Look between the numbers and understand what Manning means to that franchise. That's why he's being considered. Not because of what ESPN says.

[Strike 5,844]

I don't know what to say.

 

Doesn't seem to be the case. Even when you say you're going to pipe down you have plenty to say. Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Won't change the outcome. But have fun being all butt hurt about it. I just find it funny that something you dismiss as an ESPN gimmick bothers you so much when it doesn't go your way.

 

[tikigods 76]

Doesn't seem to be the case. Even when you say you're going to pipe down you have plenty to say. Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Won't change the outcome. But have fun being all butt hurt about it. I just find it funny that something you dismiss as an ESPN gimmick bothers you so much when it doesn't go your way.

 

 

Well at least this thread was more entertaining than the Ravens-Colts game today

[listen2me 23 1,924]

NE and Denver didn't have legit running games?

 

So Willis had 3 100 yard games in a shortened season. And Moreno off the Practice Squad came in and had 2 100 yard games in shortened time.

 

Ridley had over 1200 for NE.

 

But they had no real running attacks? What on earth?

 

When Rodgers hasn't seen a 100 yard game from a RB in 43 straight games?

 

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Well at least this thread was more entertaining than the Ravens-Colts game today

And the rest of this dull bored with no traffic. You spent you day here sally. Be grateful.

[Strike 5,844]

Is there anything besides Denver's record that makes Manning the MVP?

 

What do you mean? Do you watch the games? You guys are looking for stats but for the last month Denver has been basically kneeling on offense for the last 1.5 quarters of each game because they're up by 25 and want to run the clock out. That's why they have a panel that votes for these things. Those people watch the games and don't rely solely on stats. Certainly stats matter to an extent but it's unlikely you're going to go 13-3 unless your QB has MVP level stats. Doesn't mean they're the MVP. No one is suggesting Matt Ryan for MVP. But when you look at the games AND the stats you get a complete picture. Does that mean Manning "IS" the MVP? No. I'd go with AP as well. But I'm comfortable with Manning as 2nd, and if he happens to win it, so be it.

 

The other thing is that whether you say "ooh KC sucks" or whatever, at the end of the day they both had a chance to influence their team's postseason last week. Manning easily took care of business while Rodgers and GB lost. Yeah, a lot of that was on the rest of the team but at the end of the day it hurts Rodgers when people vote for MVP. And it should.

[tikigods 76]

And the rest of this dull bored with no traffic. You spent you day here sally. Be grateful.

 

Nothing more awesome than watching you cry like a 12 year old girl at a GFIAFP sleep over.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Why isn't Matt Ryan getting more love then if stats don't matter much? He had a better record, they clinched early. He had a good year. Not many times you will have a team do that and not have a MVP level QB? Right?

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Nothing more awesome than watching you cry like a 12 year old girl at a GFIAFP sleep over.

 

Right On!

 

Glad I could humor you.

 

Feeling ain't mutual.

[Strike 5,844]

Why isn't Matt Ryan getting more love then if stats don't matter much? He had a better record, they clinched early. He had a good year. Not many times you will have a team do that and not have a MVP level QB? Right?

 

 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

AD is the MVP because without him the Vikings would be drafting #3 again this year. Dude was the only playmaker on offense the last 7 weeks of the season.....and look at his stats those weeks. Dominant. But people do talk about his comeback from injury too. That's part of the story. It's not FF MVP. It's NFL MVP, and while numbers obviously play a huge role in determining who gets the damn award, part of it is an overall value of a player to his team. It's not something you can really quantify. Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are all hugely valuable to their teams, and I don't have a problem considering Manning's backstory at all.

 

I think most everyone here believes AP deserves the award. This argument is more about #2

 

Denver is a legit championship contender. Something it wasn't last year. As has been pointed out, Denver is still the same team as last year.....except they have serious championship expectations......solely because of Manning. Look between the numbers and understand what Manning means to that franchise. That's why he's being considered. Not because of what ESPN says.

 

So Manning should be MVP over Rodgers because last year, with the worst QB in the entire league, Denver wasn't a Championship contender (even though they won a playoff game.

 

This just adds to the argument that Rodgers season is viewed as a disappointment because it's compared to his 2011 season, which was one of the all time greats.

 

Manning's season is compared to 2011 Tebow.

Rodgers' season is compared to 2011 Rodgers.

 

Look at 2012. 2011 doesn't matter.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

 

 

I'm trying to follow your logic. But you are lacking. Ryan isn't mentioned even in the discussion by pretty much anyone here. Yet he has the record to show it. He had a real good season and was a big reason for that record.

 

So what is it? Manning had better stats, but stats aren't everything, right? Ryan isn't even mentioned.

[Strike 5,844]

I'm trying to follow your logic. But you are lacking. Ryan isn't mentioned even in the discussion by pretty much anyone here. Yet he has the record to show it. He had a real good season and was a big reason for that record.

 

So what is it? Manning had better stats, but stats aren't everything, right? Ryan isn't even mentioned.

 

This really isn't worth responding to but the game hasn't started yet.

 

- Manning has better stats than Ryan across the board.

- Manning is on an 11 game winning streak.

- The Broncos started off 2-3. They had to revamp their entire offensive system for Manning after doing it for Tebow last year. It took a few games for everyone get on the same page. After that the Broncos have been rolling. Can't say the same for Atlanta.

- We lost to Atlanta 27-21 after Manning threw three picks in the first quarter in his second game back after missing a year. If Atlanta, and Ryan, were legit that should have been a huge blowout but we were still in the game in the fourth quarter.

 

etc, etc, etc. I don't know if you're just trolling now or what but if you keep asking really dumb questions like this you're going to lose whatever shred of credibility you might have left on this topic. I suspect even Brad wouldn't defend this post of yours.

[Bruce Benedict 0]

Manning's season is compared to 2011 Tebow.

Rodgers' season is compared to 2011 Rodgers.

Right, so what we know for sure is that Manning is more valuable to the Broncs than the QB they had last year, who people were comparing to the messiah, FWIW. And Rogers is less valuable than he was last year.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

The other thing is that whether you say "ooh KC sucks" or whatever, at the end of the day they both had a chance to influence their team's postseason last week. Manning easily took care of business while Rodgers and GB lost. Yeah, a lot of that was on the rest of the team but at the end of the day it hurts Rodgers when people vote for MVP. And it should.

 

Here are Rodgers' stats for that game:

 

28-40 365 yds 4 TD 0 INT

 

He drove the Packers down the field for a game tying TD with little time left in the 4th quarter. The Defense let Minnesota drive down and kick a field goal with no time left to win it.

 

His offense put up 34 points. Just stop it. Rodgers is the only reason the Packers were even in the game. He was on fire. It was THE best QB performance of the entire week, yet they lost.

 

In a previous post you say "do you watch the games".

 

I do, Strike.

 

Do you?

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Right, so what we know for sure is that Manning is more valuable to the Broncs than the QB they had last year, who people were comparing to the messiah, FWIW. And Rogers is less valuable than he was last year.

 

So that's the award then?

 

How valuable are you compared to your predecessor?

 

In that case:

 

Colts with Painter: 2 Wins

Colts with Luck: 11 wins

 

9 win improvement

 

Broncos with Tebow: 8 wins

Broncos with Manning: 13 wins

 

5 win improvement

 

Luck = MVP

[listen2me 23 1,924]

This really isn't worth responding to but the game hasn't started yet.

 

- Manning has better stats than Ryan across the board.

- Manning is on an 11 game winning streak.

- The Broncos started off 2-3. They had to revamp their entire offensive system for Manning after doing it for Tebow last year. It took a few games for everyone get on the same page. After that the Broncos have been rolling. Can't say the same for Atlanta.

- We lost to Atlanta 27-21 after Manning threw three picks in the first quarter in his second game back after missing a year. If Atlanta, and Ryan, were legit that should have been a huge blowout but we were still in the game in the fourth quarter.

 

etc, etc, etc. I don't know if you're just trolling now or what but if you keep asking really dumb questions like this you're going to lose whatever shred of credibility you might have left on this topic. I suspect even Brad wouldn't defend this post of yours.

 

All I see here is blah blah blah. You like to spin it every which way don;t you?

 

Ryan beat him head to head and Manning played like dirt. On one had 2 more wins means the world. But when Matt Ryan lost only 3 when they already had ###### wrapped up and didn't care if they lost....it doesn't matter.

 

Now you say Manning has better stats than Ryan....but you just said stats don't matter all that much.

 

I'm not saying Ryan should be. But why not even considered? By your criteria I figured he would have but I can't keep up with your flip flop.

[Strike 5,844]

Here are Rodgers' stats for that game:

 

28-40 365 yds 4 TD 0 INT

 

He drove the Packers down the field for a game tying TD with little time left in the 4th quarter. The Defense let Minnesota drive down and kick a field goal with no time left to win it.

 

His offense put up 34 points. Just stop it. Rodgers is the only reason the Packers were even in the game. He was on fire. It was THE best QB performance of the entire week, yet they lost.

 

In a previous post you say "do you watch the games".

 

I do, Strike.

 

Do you?

 

The MVP rewards the entire season, not just one game. Did he win NFC player of the week last week? If not, start a thread about it. He probably deserved it. Regardless, his team lost and that will impact the voters for this award.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

The MVP rewards the entire season, not just one game. Did he win NFC player of the week last week? If not, start a thread about it. He probably deserved it. Regardless, his team lost and that will impact the voters for this award.

 

Because voters obviously don't watch the games Strike.

[Strike 5,844]

Here are Rodgers' stats for that game:

 

28-40 365 yds 4 TD 0 INT

 

He drove the Packers down the field for a game tying TD with little time left in the 4th quarter. The Defense let Minnesota drive down and kick a field goal with no time left to win it.

 

His offense put up 34 points. Just stop it. Rodgers is the only reason the Packers were even in the game. He was on fire. It was THE best QB performance of the entire week, yet they lost.

 

In a previous post you say "do you watch the games".

 

I do, Strike.

 

Do you?

 

Did you watch the Denver/KC game last week? Can you seriously say that Rodgers had a better game than Manning?

[Strike 5,844]

Because voters obviously don't watch the games Strike.

 

Manning had just as good of a game last week as Rodgers except for the whole win loss thing.

 

[Bruce Benedict 0]

Probably also not doing Rodgers any favors in voters' eyes that after they voted for him last year, Eli made him his b1tch in the playoffs. A lot of those voters won't vote for a system QB again.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

If Rodgers was out all year and Graham Harrell played it, they would have won 5 or 6 games.

 

If Manning was out and a backup fullback started it, they would have made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

 

HTH

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Did you watch the Denver/KC game last week? Can you seriously say that Rodgers had a better game than Manning?

 

Rodgers was fighting in a game both teams needed too win.

 

Manning stayed in the game vs. a team that wanted the #1 pick to pad his stats.

 

HTH

[FeelingMN 273]

I think most everyone here believes AP deserves the award. This argument is more about #2

 

 

 

So Manning should be MVP over Rodgers because last year, with the worst QB in the entire league, Denver wasn't a Championship contender (even though they won a playoff game.

 

This just adds to the argument that Rodgers season is viewed as a disappointment because it's compared to his 2011 season, which was one of the all time greats.

 

Manning's season is compared to 2011 Tebow.

Rodgers' season is compared to 2011 Rodgers.

 

Look at 2012. 2011 doesn't matter.

 

I understand all that. I mention AD mostly because his backstory does figure into the MVP discussion. It might not be as important as his stats or the overall medicority of the Vikings without AD, but it is still mentioned every time the media talks about his MVP candidacy. Somehow that is ok with him, but not with Manning. Dumb.

 

Look, the award is subjective by nature. Jordan should have been MVP every year he was with the Bulls....but he wasn't. It doesn't go to the guy with the best stats year in, year out. Offensive player of the year does. You're trying to figure out who's most valuable to their team....it's totally based on opinion. You can't tell me that Rodgers is really any more valuable than Manning. Without either, those teams aren't close to a SB team this year. So they're both extremely valuable. I'd give it to Manning because he helped elevate a franchise. It's part of the story with him. You can't just focus on stats and say that those stats were the difference between winning and losing games....a lot of stats come in garbage time. I think there's something more intangible that goes with the award, and Manning has that in his favor over Rodgers.

 

Matt Ryan will get more consideration when he actually wins a game that means something.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

I understand all that. I mention AD mostly because his backstory does figure into the MVP discussion. It might not be as important as his stats or the overall medicority of the Vikings without AD, but it is still mentioned every time the media talks about his MVP candidacy. Somehow that is ok with him, but not with Manning. Dumb.

 

Not really. Yea it is mentioned. But he just had the best season for a RB of all time....on a team many picked to not win 8 games. He got them to double digit wins when they had nothing else special on that team and no passing attack. That was amazing. Even Harvin was out.

 

That is why his backstory doesn't matter. Because he didn't have another RB that had a better season than him that it is lifting him over. His injuries are stated, but that isn't elevating him. The fact he had the best RB season ever is why he is considered the MVP. And the fact that he was on a crap team that really had no right to make the playoffs. People knew he was running and still couldn't stop him.

 

Much different scenario. He didn't have another RB close to his stats, let alone have better stats.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Manning had just as good of a game last week as Rodgers except for the whole win loss thing.

 

 

It must be nice to play in the AFC West