Why is P. Manning in seriousMVP consideration?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Yeah they are doing something, but they arent getting hit as much as RBs. You make it sound like the fact AP needs a breather a few plays a game is some flaw in his game. All im saying is that by the nature of the RB position, they do more physically than QBs., which requires them to get a rest from time to time. When a QB gets jacked up by a blindside DE and he comes off the field for a play i dont hold that against him either. When AP isnt getting one of his 25 or so touches a game, he is pass blocking, or sprinting a 30 yard pass pattern, etc. A RB is max effort almost every play he is in the game. A QB is not. I just look at what a player does when he is in the game. IMO this season AP was hands down the best player in the NFL, so he should be the MVP.

 

 

And im not trying to say QBs are poosays or anything. It takes a complete badass to stand in looking down the barrel of a blitzing LB and deliver a pass knowing you are going to get hammered.

 

 

In the end i dont care who wins the trophy. All i care about is the SB.

 

Getting hit is more of a longevity thing. If that was a factor, then we would have LB's and OL's being up for consideration. This is not about who the toughest is.

 

The point is that you look at who the most VALUABLE player is in the league. The most valuable position on most teams is the QB. You could easily state that is not the case with the Vikings. However, when I look at 3rd and long for the Vikings, AP was out of the game.

 

AP was by far the best RB out there and certainly was a huge reason why the Vikings made it to the playoffs. However, when you look at what Rodgers and Manning have done for their teams, I think that it should go to a QB.

 

With that said, AP is so far ahead of the other RB's and there is debate over the QB's, so he probably will win it.

[TD Ryan2 316]

I'm in the AP. camp.

MIN is nowhere without him.

Pats and Colts are both still playoff teams w/o Brady and Manning.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I'm in the AP. camp.

MIN is nowhere without him.

Pats and Colts are both still playoff teams w/o Brady and Manning.

 

A bit of a slip, huh?

 

What about Rodgers?

[shotsup 833]

JJ Watt

[TD Ryan2 316]

A bit of a slip, huh?

 

What about Rodgers?

oops. Yup. Meant DEN.

I don't know about Rodgers. He certainly deserves to be in the mix - that NFC North is a tough division. U take any key players off GB and they may not make the playoffs. So yeah - take Rodgers off GB and they don't make the playoffs.

[drobeski 3,061]

JJ Watt

He was jj who the last time the pats faced him

[southcarolina 166]

 

However, when I look at 3rd and long for the Vikings, AP was out of the game.

 

 

I dont really disagree with you that in general QBs are more valuable, in the way that a point guard is more valuable than a forward. The offense runs through them, they make the decisions and distribute the ball. But the whole "3rd and long" argument doent really make any sense to me. Football is such a situational game now, and 3rd and long is a situation that usually requires a throw downfield. And while AP is a fine receiver out of the backfield, i dont get why taking him out of these situations in favor of a WR, or even another RB to do some pass blocking, is so bad. Hell maybe the Vikings make the conscious choice to use these types of situations to rest him. No RB plays 100% of its teams offensive snaps. If youre saying that is one of your requirements to win the MVP, then it really is just the best QB award.

[shotsup 833]

I dont really disagree with you that in general QBs are more valuable, in the way that a point guard is more valuable than a forward. The offense runs through them, they make the decisions and distribute the ball. But the whole "3rd and long" argument doent really make any sense to me. Football is such a situational game now, and 3rd and long is a situation that usually requires a throw downfield. And while AP is a fine receiver out of the backfield, i dont get why taking him out of these situations in favor of a WR, or even another RB to do some pass blocking, is so bad. Hell maybe the Vikings make the conscious choice to use these types of situations to rest him. No RB plays 100% of its teams offensive snaps. If youre saying that is one of your requirements to win the MVP, then it really is just the best QB award.

 

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Rodgers won 15 games last year with the worst defense in history of the game. That is probably one of the most impressive things to ever happen.

 

This year he had injuries all across his offense. Crap Oline. Iffy defense. No 100 yard rusher in 43....43 consecutive games. And played in arguably the best division in football.

 

Oh, and one of the goofs I know said "but the Packers throw it all the time, no wonder they have no 100 yard rushers" That is wrong. Rodgers had the 16th most attempts last year....over a 100 less throws than Brady....yet was the best statistical QB. This year? 10th most attempts...yet he is the best statistical QB. He doesn't even have to throw it a lot to break records and dominate.

 

Anyone who thinks Manning is more deserving of the MVP is either too caught up in what they watch on TV. Or they are just idiots.

 

Manning has had 2 seasons in his whole HOF career of over 33 TDs. Rodgers in his 5 years starting averages 34.

 

Rodgers is the best QB in the league and it is obvious.

 

I have no problem if AP wins MVP and Manning wins comeback player. That is what will probably happen and what probably should happen.

[tikigods 76]

Rodgers has been sacked like 70 times this year. No way he is even in the top 5. Get rid of the focking ball, tard.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Rodgers has been sacked like 70 times this year. No way he is even in the top 5. Get rid of the focking ball, tard.

 

Because he has a bottom 3 Oline and extends plays because he is actually athletic. Unlike these Manning and Brady dudes.

 

Oh he doesn't have 6'3 4.3 guys like D Thomas either to just wing it up too. He has a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders that because of him everyone views as elite WRs. Love me some Jennings. But watch him go to another team next year and struggle to look like a real #1.

[tikigods 76]

Because he has a bottom 3 Oline and extends plays because he is actually athletic. Unlike these Manning and Brady dudes.

 

Oh he doesn't have 6'3 4.3 guys like D Thomas either to just wing it up too. He has a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders that because of him everyone views as elite WRs. Love me some Jennings. But watch him go to another team next year and struggle to look like a real #1.

 

I can't see them voting for a guy who was sacked 70 times. The Patriots line is probably the worst line in the AFC but Brady would NEVER get sacked that many times because he throws the ball.

 

Just sayin'.

 

I do like Greg Jennings.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

He gets sacked 3 times as much as Brady and Manning yet he suffers no stiff neck.

 

Rodgers is more durable than those 2 statues.

 

Chalk another one up for Rodgers.

[southcarolina 166]

Rodgers won 15 games last year with the worst defense in history of the game. That is probably one of the most impressive things to ever happen.

 

This year he had injuries all across his offense. Crap Oline. Iffy defense. No 100 yard rusher in 43....43 consecutive games. And played in arguably the best division in football.

 

Oh, and one of the goofs I know said "but the Packers throw it all the time, no wonder they have no 100 yard rushers" That is wrong. Rodgers had the 16th most attempts last year....over a 100 less throws than Brady....yet was the best statistical QB. This year? 10th most attempts...yet he is the best statistical QB. He doesn't even have to throw it a lot to break records and dominate.

 

Anyone who thinks Manning is more deserving of the MVP is either too caught up in what they watch on TV. Or they are just idiots.

 

Manning has had 2 seasons in his whole HOF career of over 33 TDs. Rodgers in his 5 years starting averages 34.

 

Rodgers is the best QB in the league and it is obvious.

 

I have no problem if AP wins MVP and Manning wins comeback player. That is what will probably happen and what probably should happen.

 

 

 

So if we all admit that Rodgers is more deserving of second place than Manning, will you calm the f*ck down?

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Because he has a nice little system with a bunch of safe short throws.

 

Yea he throws the ball. He usually attempts 100 more throws than Rodgers a year...yet can't seem to put up the same caliber stats. And he plays in the worst division in football.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

So if we all admit that Rodgers is more deserving of second place than Manning, will you calm the f*ck down?

 

no.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Favre to Rodgers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tebow to Manning >>>>>>> Manning to Luck >>>>>>> Bledsoe to Brady

 

That is basically the accurate ranking system we are seeing here.

[drobeski 3,061]

What does not having a 1000 yard rusher have to do with anything ?

Big wooopdeedoo, rogers is in a pass

first system.

Dumb argument there

[tikigods 76]

Favre to Rodgers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tebow to Manning >>>>>>> Manning to Luck >>>>>>> Bledsoe to Brady

 

That is basically the accurate ranking system we are seeing here.

 

Are you drinking spiked Kool-Aid?

[listen2me 23 1,924]

What does not having a 1000 yard rusher have to do with anything ?

Big wooopdeedoo, rogers is in a pass

first system.

Dumb argument there

 

Yet he was 16th last year in attempts. And 10th this year. While Brady throws it 3 games worth more each year.

 

But Rodgers is the one who passes it all over the place.

 

He hasn't had a 100 yard rusher in 43 straight games. That is unheard of. He basically has Vick's legs, Montana's coolness, Marino's arm, Favre's durability, and Elway's play making.

 

Manning has your neck.

[edjr 6,732]

He basically has Vick's legs

 

 

I knew there was a reason I hated Aaron Rodgers. He's half black

[listen2me 23 1,924]

I knew there was a reason I hated him. He's half black

 

His belt thing and skip and hops after a TD are obviously from his cool brotha half.

[southcarolina 166]

no.

 

OK.

 

 

 

Drew Brees should have won the MVP last year. Discuss.

[Bruce Benedict 0]

More I think about it, Griffin's crazy numbers combined with the fact that he ran circles around Rodgers on the ground, probably puts him above AR as well. Megatron has a case, too.

 

Updated rankings.

 

1. AP

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Ryan

5. RG3

6. Megatron

7. Tie - Rodgers and JJ Watt

 

Seems about right. Rodgers's team didn't win enough for him to be there outright on team wins...his passing yards were ho-hum...his TD's were nice, but certainly didn't lead the league or anything...his rushing yards were blah...his rushing TD's were doubled by Brady...there's just nothing special about Rodgers this year.

 

He deserves to finish back in the pack, and probably will.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Nice to see a Matt Ryan mention

[Bruce Benedict 0]

Good player, though. When you take his age, accomplishments, and year-to-year potential into account, there are only about five guys I'd rather have leading my team from this moment forward.

 

Ryan, RG3, Luck, Roethlisberger, Eli...I can't think of any others right off. Brees, Brady, Peyton all probably a little long in the tooth. Wilson needs another year of seasoning. So Rodgers is #6 moving forward. That's a feather in his cap, right there.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Respectable opinion

[IGotWorms 4,060]

1. AP

2. Manning

3. Brady

4. Rodgers

[Strike 5,841]

You could counter that by saying that 40% of the time a QB's only involvement in a play is not fumbling the center snap and QB/RB exchange.In other words, the QB involvement is minimal.

 

This is untrue. Even on plays where a run is made there is typically at least the thread of a pass. Obviously, stacked at the goal line that's not true but most plays have an option of a run or a pass. Look at the Vikings game yesterday. The Packers used a totally different defense than last week. I'm sure part of that was because AP burned them so badly last week but I'm sure part of it also was that they had a different QB to worry about and they weren't worried about him passing. On the first drive the Vikings moved all the way down the field without passing it once. After that, as GB realized the limitations of the QB, they played AP more and more and he couldn't get free. The QB absolutely has an impact even on plays where he isn't throwing the ball.

[Strike 5,841]

Rodgers lost the MVP when he started doing discount double check commercials. If I had a vote there's no way I'd vote for someone doing those crap commercials.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I dont really disagree with you that in general QBs are more valuable, in the way that a point guard is more valuable than a forward. The offense runs through them, they make the decisions and distribute the ball. But the whole "3rd and long" argument doent really make any sense to me. Football is such a situational game now, and 3rd and long is a situation that usually requires a throw downfield. And while AP is a fine receiver out of the backfield, i dont get why taking him out of these situations in favor of a WR, or even another RB to do some pass blocking, is so bad. Hell maybe the Vikings make the conscious choice to use these types of situations to rest him. No RB plays 100% of its teams offensive snaps. If youre saying that is one of your requirements to win the MVP, then it really is just the best QB award.

My point is that, if I have a third down in a big game, I want my best players out there. AP isn't out there for Minny in those situations. If he is the most valuable in the entire league, then why is that. I am not talking about giving him a blow after a few tough runs. I am talking situations.

 

... And for some others, Rodgers was not sacked 70 times this season. That OL does suck, though.

[ens189 1]

Brady will be happy with another super bowl mvp.

 

No one is happier my boys aren't in there then him.

[drobeski 3,061]

Mvps win important playoff seeding week 17 games.

[tikigods 76]

Mvps win important playoff seeding week 17 games.

 

Shouldn't you be touting Manning since you both have overcome neck issues?

[WhiteWonder 2,858]

Shouldn't you be touting Manning since you both have overcome neck issues?

 

you're not usually funny but this one was

[cbfalcon 827]

My point is that, if I have a third down in a big game, I want my best players out there. AP isn't out there for Minny in those situations. If he is the most valuable in the entire league, then why is that. I am not talking about giving him a blow after a few tough runs. I am talking situations.

 

... And for some others, Rodgers was not sacked 70 times this season. That OL does suck, though.

 

I agree, I want my best players on the field for the biggest situations.

 

For instance, when the Patriots were trying to secure 19-0, I didn't understand why Brady and Moss were on the bench while Eli and Plaxico drove down the field.

 

Some would argue that different personell are optimal for different game situations, like a RB coming off the field on a non running play, but if these guys are the best players, they should be on the field in big situations.

[FeelingMN 273]

Against playoff teams, Brady was 3-3, Manning 2-3, and Rodgers 2-4. So lets leave schedule out of it, especially considering Rodgers couldn't beat the mighty Chiefs last year.

 

And Packer fans can't have it both ways. They can't say TT is the greatest GM in the history of football but then say the whole team stinks and Rodgers carries them. Whatever.

 

Rodgers, Brees, Manning,, and Brady are each all-time greats. When their teams are dominant they will be in the MVP discussion. To make a case for one is really just to split hairs. They're all uber important to their teams. You can make a case for each, but to exclude one or make the claim that one is so much better is simply homerism. Manning can't be the most valuable because his team was good? Isn't that like saying Joe Montana really wasn't that great because he had Jerry Rice and a good defense? Or Phil Jackson wasn't a great coach because he always coached the best players? Great players are great, no matter their circumstances.

 

QBs don't go to a new team and put up huge numbers like Manning did. Dude absolutely deserves MVP consideration.

 

Maybe this thread should be about why Rodgers should be the MVP instead of about Manning.

[listen2me 23 1,924]

It is about how good Rodgers is. He basically has every argument there is over Manning. Played in one of the toughest divisions. While Manning and Brady played in 2 of the worst.

 

Packers lost a game to Seattle that wasn't really a loss. The league handed it to Ronald Wilson and Patrick Carroll. If the call was made with any sort of sense the Packers would have had a bye wrapped up going into week 17 and wouldn't even of played the game.

 

I love how Packers are 2-4 vs Playoff teams....but leave out the obvious wrong call that gave them a loss. Really they were 3-3.

 

TT is a good GM. Doesn't change the fact that their defense last year was the worst ever statistically. Doesn't change the fact Rodgers was missing all of his WRs at times this year. Doesn't change the fact that TTs 2 OL he chose recently in the 1st round broke themselves. 1 hasn't seen the field in 2 years because of injury. 1 (bulaga) was coming on and went out halfway through the year. But somehow I am whining about their team? It's just a fact, they have been riddled with injury and their Oline may be bottom 3 in the league.

 

But for some reason because Denver backed into the #1 seed and facing the worst team in the league week 17...and Packers fell to 3rd because they played a division rival 10 win team at their place....that means the world in terms of who is more valuable. A game the Packers shouldn't even of had to play if there weren't any replacement refs this year. But because we had high school refs...it is Rodgers fault they didn't get a bye.

 

[Strike 5,841]

It is about how good Rodgers is. He basically has every argument there is over Manning. Played in one of the toughest divisions. While Manning and Brady played in 2 of the worst.

 

Packers lost a game to Seattle that wasn't really a loss. The league handed it to Ronald Wilson and Patrick Carroll. If the call was made with any sort of sense the Packers would have had a bye wrapped up going into week 17 and wouldn't even of played the game.

 

I love how Packers are 2-4 vs Playoff teams....but leave out the obvious wrong call that gave them a loss. Really they were 3-3.

 

TT is a good GM. Doesn't change the fact that their defense last year was the worst ever statistically. Doesn't change the fact Rodgers was missing all of his WRs at times this year. Doesn't change the fact that TTs 2 OL he chose recently in the 1st round broke themselves. 1 hasn't seen the field in 2 years because of injury. 1 (bulaga) was coming on and went out halfway through the year. But somehow I am whining about their team? It's just a fact, they have been riddled with injury and their Oline may be bottom 3 in the league.

 

But for some reason because Denver backed into the #1 seed and facing the worst team in the league week 17...and Packers fell to 3rd because they played a division rival 10 win team at their place....that means the world in terms of who is more valuable. A game the Packers shouldn't even of had to play if there weren't any replacement refs this year. But because we had high school refs...it is Rodgers fault they didn't get a bye.

 

 

[Bruce Benedict 0]

Really they were 3-3.

Don't know what I was thinking. .500 screams MVP.