eaglesalltheway 0 Posted February 10, 2013 Personally, I have no problem with military strikes on Americans, so long as they are enemies of the state. Many states (gvts) kill Americans everyday via the death penalty, so why do we have an issue with a zone strike that kills an American who is working with Al Queda? We hold people indefinitely for no crime at Guantanamo under the guise of war, and just because they are not American, that's okay, but when we find an "American" who is fighting this country and participating in the effort to have mass killings in this country, we should arrest him instead??? It just doesn't make sense to me. Please explain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finbabble Garp 1 Posted February 10, 2013 Because here is the official, legal, and and fully-described-in-all-its-glory process that must be undertaken before an American citizen can be declared an "enemy of the state," and thus be scheduled for execution from orbit with no further due process: 1. Obama says so. That's it. That's the list. Obummer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 First, Americans are covered by the Constitution, and our laws. There is this little thing called due process. Capturing prisoners gives you the opportunity to get information from them. This is how Bin Laden was killed. Killing them with drones, while I agree is a good thing at times, isn't the best answer every time. It's being used when we could capture them so that Obama doesn't have to take any heat for keeping them prisoner. I don't care who the President is, the idea that he gets to be judge, jury, and executioner in secret is assinine. Also... http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=416380 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finbabble Garp 1 Posted February 10, 2013 This is important because the Constitution of the United States, may God's blessing be upon it, affords ALL American citizens fundamental rights, of which I'm pretty sure at least one of them says something about due process before being nuked from orbit. And it is the sole responsibility of government to ensure that the letter of the law is upheld down to the tiniest punctuation mark when it comes to defending the Constitution, just as it is the most important calling of an informed citizenry to hold its government accountable for doing exactly that. Except with the second amendment, which it's easy to see needs to be interpreted outside the scope of the "well regulated" BS, what with all these vicious home intruders probably lurking just around every corner these days, and the liberal government a constant threat to turn tyrannical. The rest of it, though, is sacred. Founding fathers. Etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finbabble Garp 1 Posted February 10, 2013 Also, I'm pretty sure my republican brother meant asinine, which would have been actually a word. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 First, Americans are covered by the Constitution, and our laws. There is this little thing called due process. Agreed and its a disgrace that Obummer has continued / accelerated the executive overreach of his predecessor and the only people complaining are "cranks" on the fringe left and libertarian right. Unfortunately I expect this is the new normal. The terrorists really did win on 9/11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 What "executive overreach" by Bush are you talking about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 What "executive overreach" by Bush are you talking about? The ability to kidnap, torture and indefinitely detain US citizens. hth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 The ability to kidnap, torture and indefinitely detain US citizens. hth What U.S. citizen did Bush do this to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,594 Posted February 10, 2013 2 separate drone operations currently going on. Military and CIA When the military is manning the drones they have a lawyer in the room to give the go ahead on the kill to make sure it is a 'legal' kill. When the CIA is manning their drones...Who knows? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 What U.S. citizen did Bush do this to? Google. Also I don't answer your questions so you can go suck a fat d1ck, RPIAFP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Google. Also I don't answer your questions so you can go suck a fat d1ck, RPIAFP. Another claim you can't back up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted February 10, 2013 What U.S. citizen did Bush do this to? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090900772.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 Also, I'm pretty sure my republican brother meant asinine, which would have been actually a word. RP tries to copy it when he sees other people using big words against him. It's kinda cute in a precocious way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090900772.html Padilla was arrested and detained. Where was he "kidnapped" and "tortured"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 Personally, I have no problem with military strikes on Americans, so long as they are enemies of the state. Many states (gvts) kill Americans everyday via the death penalty, so why do we have an issue with a zone strike that kills an American who is working with Al Queda? We hold people indefinitely for no crime at Guantanamo under the guise of war, and just because they are not American, that's okay, but when we find an "American" who is fighting this country and participating in the effort to have mass killings in this country, we should arrest him instead??? It just doesn't make sense to me. Please explain. When people are given the death penalty, there are first formal charges against them, then a trial, then appeals. This element of due process, or really any process at all, is lacking from the drone strikes killings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 When people are given the death penalty, there are first formal charges against them, then a trial, then appeals. This element of due process, or really any process at all, is lacking from the drone strikes killings. Why didn't I think of that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,998 Posted February 10, 2013 Personally, I have no problem with military strikes on Americans, so long as they are enemies of the state. Many states (gvts) kill Americans everyday via the death penalty, so why do we have an issue with a zone strike that kills an American who is working with Al Queda? We hold people indefinitely for no crime at Guantanamo under the guise of war, and just because they are not American, that's okay, but when we find an "American" who is fighting this country and participating in the effort to have mass killings in this country, we should arrest him instead??? It just doesn't make sense to me. Please explain. Yes, we should. Unless you are comfortable with the possibility that tomorrow the sitting administration may determine that your behaviors constitute "enemy of the state." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 Why didn't I think of that? Did I say that you hadn't? I was backing you up, for once in your miserable little existence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Did I say that you hadn't? I was backing you up, for once in your miserable little existence. I now question the validity of the legal argument I made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,594 Posted February 10, 2013 Where was he "kidnapped" and "tortured"? According to libs like Nikki, arrested and detained is the same as kidnapped and tortured. Poor papa smurf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Cue the discussion of what constitutes "kidnapping" and "torture." ETA: Called it! So, now if you are arrested you have been "kidnapped". Incarceration = Torture? Gotcha. Seems to me the arrest was legit since he was convicted of terrorism by a jury. ETA: Nice job running away like a lil girl, and letting a girl fight your fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted February 10, 2013 According to libs like Nikki, arrested and detained is the same as kidnapped and tortured. Poor papa smurf I see you are completely filled in as usual. I take it back. Jose Padillo was afforded all of his Constitutional rights to due process. Nothing to see here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted February 10, 2013 So, now if you are arrested you have been "kidnapped". Incarceration = Torture? Gotcha. Seems to me the arrest was legit since he was convicted of terrorism by a jury. ETA: Nice job running away like a lil girl, and letting a girl fight your fight. Oh dear god. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 I see you are completely filled in as usual. I take it back. Jose Padillo was afforded all of his Constitutional rights to due process. Nothing to see here. Dude was arrested. The courts said you can't detain him indefinitely without a trial. So they tried him. He was convicted. Still waiting for where he was kidnapped and tortured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 Cue the discussion if what constitutes "kidnapping" and "torture." ETA: Called it! I'm like FFT's very own Nate Silver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finbabble Garp 1 Posted February 10, 2013 Cue the discussion if what constitutes "kidnapping" and "torture." ETA: Called it! I'm like FFT's very own Nate Silver. Yeah, sure, if by that you mean that you can correctly analyze entire electorates' worth of polling data, but can't correctly call a coin flip more than 50% of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Cue the discussion if what constitutes "kidnapping" and "torture." ETA: Called it! I'm like FFT's very own Nate Silver. Nobody is discussing what constitutes kidnapping and torture, Corky. We are all still waiting for you to bring an example. If by saying you are ""FFT's very own Nate Silver" you mean you are 0-2013, you are correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 We are all still waiting for you to bring an example. Sorry, had an early dinner with my folks and just got back from Princeton. You can still go suck a fat d1ck, RPIAFP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Sill can't back up your claims. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 It's like RP was living in a hole from 2001-2008. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 It's like RP was living in a hole from 2001-2008. I'm willing to listen. Bring a list of all those American's Bush "Kidnapped, tortured, and indefinitely detained". Oh wait, you don't do links. Nevermind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 I'm willing to listen. Bring a list of all those American's Bush "Kidnapped, tortured, and indefinitely detained". Oh wait, you don't do links. Nevermind. Have you ever heard the term "extraordinary rendition"? Ever heard of CIA black sites? Do you know who John Yoo is? Do the words "Abu Ghraib" mean anything to you? Do you think everybody at Gitmo was there on vacation? Jesus man, you are a focktard of the highest order. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 I'm willing to listen. No you're not. That's why I treat you like the focking clown you are. Now dance monkey, dance! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Have you ever heard the term "extraordinary rendition"? Ever heard of CIA black sites? Do the words "Abu Ghraib" mean anything to you? Do you think everybody at Gitmo was there on vacation? Jesus man, you are a focktard of the highest order. Heard of all of them. I don't think your mental capacity is high enough to get what MDC claimed. List of Americans at those places? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 No you're not. That's why I treat you like the focking clown you are. Now dance monkey, dance! That's a cute way to try to cover for the fact you got caught talking out of your ass, again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted February 10, 2013 Heard of all of them. I don't think your mental capacity is high enough to get what MDC claimed. List of Americans at those places? Jose Padilla was already cited and I'd add Yaser Hamdi to the list. Both were held for over 3 years without charges. Padilla was subject to "enhanced interrogation techniques" aka torture. Hamdi may have been treated better as he was kept on US soil after being transferred from Gitmo. Now what? Are we going to argue about whether enhanced interrogation = torture? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 Jose Padilla was already cited and I'd add Yaser Hamdi to the list. Both were held for over 3 years without charges. So, you are claiming Hamdi was "kidnapped" in Afghanistan while fighting for the Taliban? Tortured? Link? Held indefinitely? Released to Saudi on the condition he renounce his U.S. citizenship. Wow, you clowns are scrambling. :banana: Yaser Esam Hamdi (born September 26, 1980) is a former American citizen who was captured in Afghanistan in 2001. The United States government claims that that he was fighting with the Taliban against U.S. and Afghan Northern Alliance forces. He was declared an "illegal enemy combatant" by the Bush administration and detained for almost three years without charge. He was a US citizen, as he was born in Louisiana. On October 9, 2004, on the condition that he renounce his US citizenship and commit to travel prohibitions and other conditions, the government released him and deported him to Saudi Arabia, where he had grown up. Oh, and if holding someone for over 3 years without trial constitutes "torture", I guess 007Bama has been torturing the terrorist American Nadil Hasan. Where is your outrage over that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,737 Posted February 10, 2013 Jose Padilla was already cited and I'd add Yaser Hamdi to the list. Both were held for over 3 years without charges. Padilla was subject to "enhanced interrogation techniques" aka torture. Hamdi may have been treated better as he was kept on US soil after being transferred from Gitmo. Now what? Are we going to argue about whether enhanced interrogation = torture? RPIAFP is a closet phag who gets off on negative attention from online men. He's reading your posts and fingering his poo hole right now. Don't ever wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 10, 2013 RPIAFP is a closet phag who gets off on negative attention from online men. He's reading your posts and fingering his poo hole right now. Don't ever wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. Wow. You really are butthurt for getting called out on your lies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites