crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 Agreed...as I said just a minute after yours...the error is in taking military action off the table in public like that. He has to keep the thread of that (no matter how stupid because people know were are not getting into some land war in Ukraine with Russia)...but has to keep it in his pocket IMO. They have to go with sanctions and work with the EU and so on. But some, that are not as level headed as you...have to complain about everything. No matter what he does. Yes he maid a mistake by saying military action is off thetable, but like u said everyone knows we are not fighting a land war in Ukraine against Russia. That's why these guys make republicans look bad. There is nothing Obama can do that the EU should be doing. I'm not going to bash him just because he's a democrat or just because I dont care for him. Bush did absolutely nothing to Russia when they invaded Georgia and Obama will do about the same. Again this is an EU probkem not a US problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 20, 2014 Newbie, MDC and Sho Nuff_34. And every Republican on this bored when Bush was in office and Russia took Georgia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 And every Republican on this bored when Bush was in office and Russia took Georgia. Not me. Don't lump me in with those guys. Im a rational thinking republican Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted March 20, 2014 I don't like Obama, but what is he suppose to do? He/EU will impose sanctions, get other countries involved, but thats all America can do. This is a EU problem not an American problem. We are not the world police! We should only help if the EU asks for it. This is not our fight! As an ex-military guy I hope we dont send one troop to help out. If surrounding countries ask for a troop presence in their countries, then fine. There is nothing the US can do besides sanctions or military action. I'm going with sanctions and let the EU go fock themselves. Russia will do what Russia wants to do unless the EU stands up for themselves. BHO has always had a problem making a tough decisions. This should have been dealt with in Nov / Dec 2013. He is always a dollar short and a day late. When protests in Ukraine grew and violence ensued, it was surely evident to people in the intelligence community and to the White House that President Putin might try to take advantage of the situation to capture Crimea, or more. That was the time to talk with our global allies about punishments and sanctions, to secure their solidarity, and to communicate these to the Russian president. These steps, plus assurances that we would not exclude Russia from its base in Sevastopol or threaten its influence in Kiev, might have dissuaded him from invasion. Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/18/romney-obama-failed-act-russia-when-action-was-pos/#ixzz2wSFIPZ74 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 20, 2014 Not me. Don't lump me in with those guys. Im a rational thinking republican Sorry, there are so few of you here and you make less noise than the loonies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted March 20, 2014 Sorry, there are so few of you here and you make less noise than the loonies. Why are the loonies alway right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 It's obvious to me that certain fellow republicans on this board will complain no matter what he does. This is not our problem. This is a European problem. Germany, Italy, France, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Finland, Norway, Sweden. Why are all these countries not getting more involved?? Why are these countries not sending military support? Why is this a Obama/US problem. Why are these countries not banding together to stop this? After all it's in their back yard. Where is Japan, Greece, Australia? Can they not help either? We are not the world police!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 20, 2014 It's obvious to me that certain fellow republicans on this board will complain no matter what he does. This is not our problem. This is a European problem. Germany, Italy, France, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Finland, Norway, Sweden. Why are all these countries not getting more involved?? Why are these countries not sending military support? Why is this a Obama/US problem. Why are these countries not banding together to stop this? After all it's in their back yard. Where is Japan, Greece, Australia? Can they not help either? We are not the world police!! If that's the case, why is Obama concerned at all? I mean, he froze non-existent U.S. bank accounts of some Putin cronies to show Putin what a tough guy he is and how much we care about Crimea. It would seem that if we have no stake in world affairs we wouldn't give two rips about anything Putin does. It's not our problem after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 If that's the case, why is Obama concerned at all? I mean, he froze non-existent U.S. bank accounts of some Putin cronies to show Putin what a tough guy he is and how much we care about Crimea. It would seem that if we have no stake in world affairs we wouldn't give two rips about anything Putin does. It's not our problem after all. Exactly. This poses zero threat to the US or our interests. I will ask again. Where are all the other countries that I mentioned above? They could all band together and stop this. If countries that border Russia won't band together to stop this, why should the US care? What threat is this to the US? Why should we care about Crimea or the Ukraine? If other European countries won't band together, why should the US care? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 20, 2014 Why are the loonies alway right? Loonies always think they're right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 20, 2014 Exactly. This poses zero threat to the US or our interests. No need for Obama to say anything then. Let's go about our own business and ignore the whole thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 No need for Obama to say anything then. Let's go about our own business and ignore the whole thing. No problem here. That's exactly what Bush did, so I'm good with Obama doing the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 20, 2014 No problem here. That's exactly what Bush did, so I'm good with Obama doing the same. Yet Obama is saying something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 Yet Obama is saying something. Yes he's doing what presidents do. Bush said something and did the same amount...if not less then what Obama is doing. I don't get the point. You still didn't answer my question about the other countries. Why are they not taking a tougher stance. After all it is Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 20, 2014 Yes he's doing what presidents do. Bush said something and did the same amount...if not less then what Obama is doing. I don't get the point. You still didn't answer my question about the other countries. Why are they not taking a tougher stance. After all it is Europe. If I had to go out on a limb I would say it's because they can't stand up to Russia on their own militarily, and since Obama has turned his hole cards up before the flop and taken U.S. military action off the table, they are left in limbo. Obama is doing what President's do? Please show me examples of President's announcing they will not use military force in the beginning of a situation where one country invades another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 20, 2014 If I had to go out on a limb I would say it's because they can't stand up to Russia on their own militarily, and since Obama has turned his hole cards up before the flop and taken U.S. military action off the table, they are left in limbo. Obama is doing what President's do? Please show me examples of President's announcing they will not use military force in the beginning of a situation where one country invades another. Google "Bush Russia Georgia". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 20, 2014 If I had to go out on a limb I would say it's because they can't stand up to Russia on their own militarily, and since Obama has turned his hole cards up before the flop and taken U.S. military action off the table, they are left in limbo. Obama is doing what President's do? Please show me examples of President's announcing they will not use military force in the beginning of a situation where one country invades another. I'm pretty sure FDR said we won't get involved in a European problem. Then Japan bombed pearl harbor. You can research it, but I'm almost positive. Are u saying all those countries in the EU can't band together to stop Russia? I would strongly disagree with that. If they can't then they're puzzies and deserve to get ran over and taken advantage of. You've got this mentality thst the US president is the end all know all on everything and every country will listen to us...Not so. We can/will do nothing about this but sanctions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 20, 2014 Google "Bush Russia Georgia". Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 I'm pretty sure FDR said we won't get involved in a European problem. Then Japan bombed pearl harbor. So he announced to the world he was taking military action off the table and the result was Pearl Harbor? And this is your reasoning for supporting Obama saying he is taking military action off the table? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 So he announced to the world he was taking military action off the table and the result was Pearl Harbor? And this is your reasoning for supporting Obama saying he is taking military action off the table? He was very vocal about not fighting while doing the lend lease with Britain. You asked for an example, I gave you one. You know it is possible to say one thing and do another IE fdr with wwII. Shockingly presidents do it all the time...both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 He was very vocal about not fighting while doing the lend lease with Britain. You asked for an example, I gave you one. You know it is possible to say one thing and do another IE fdr with wwII. Shockingly presidents do it all the time...both sides. Gotcha. Present weakness to the world until you are attacked, and then scramble when your weakness is exploited. I am not sure about your "Presidents do it all the time" claim, but the one example you brought didn't help your cause much. Unfortunately for us, it seems Obama is taking the same approach FDR did. Let's hope the outcome is different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 Yes lets do. So you've never heard a president promise/say one thing then do another? Odd I hear politicians do it a lot. A question for you. Did you protest this much when Bush did next to nothing when Russia invaded Georgia? I see no difference in what both presidents have done. Putin knows we will not fight him regardless. So whats the issue? Just cause Obama said military is off the table?? Everyone knows this already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 21, 2014 Why? Because that would answer your silly question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 Yes lets do. So you've never heard a president promise/say one thing then do another? All the time. But the question was: Show examples of Presidents taking the military option off the table at the start of a crisis. Your one example so far resulted in thousands of American deaths..........hardly a success story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 Because that would answer your silly question. What "silly question" would be answered? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 21, 2014 What "silly question" would be answered? The last time Russia invaded another country and military action wasn't on the table. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 Never said it was a success story. Just giving you an example. Times have changed. When big boys have nukes you got to be a little more careful would you not agree? This isn't the 40's anymore. So did you protest like this when Bush did nothing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 The last time Russia invaded another country and military action wasn't on the table. Did Bush announce to the world military action would not be used when that started? If he did, I would say he was as big an idiot as Obama is today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 I guess your stance is to threaten a lunatic, who has nukes, has China's support most of the time, the largest military in the EU, with possible military action? That seems a little more frightening then trying to make the EU do more and use sanctions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 Never said it was a success story. Just giving you an example. Times have changed. When big boys have nukes you got to be a little more careful would you not agree? This isn't the 40's anymore. So did you protest like this when Bush did nothing? I guess we could look beyond your disastrous FDR example and look to what JFK learned from it . He took a hard line stance against the USSR during the cold war when they were putting nukes in Cuba and threatened them without regard to them having nukes. Too bad Obama has learned nothing from history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 Did Bush announce to the world military action would not be used when that started? If he did, I would say he was as big an idiot as Obama is today. So doing nothing at all is better than what Obama is/has done....got it. Bush turned hus back on Georgia and that was ok since he never said military action is off the table. What kind of stance is that??? I guess it could be said that since Putin got away with it once, why not do it again? Maybe because Putin had no repercussion from Bush he would do it while Obama was in office. Seems like a fair assumption to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 So doing nothing at all is better than what Obama is/has done....got it. That is the course you have been advocating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 I guess we could look beyond your disastrous FDR example and look to what JFK learned from it . He took a hard line stance against the USSR during the cold war when they were putting nukes in Cuba and threatened them without regard to them having nukes. Too bad Obama has learned nothing from history. That's a huge leap. Russia was wanting to put nukes 100 miles off our coast lol. Not even close to the same, but nice stretch of an example. That was funny lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 That is the course you have been advocating. Obama learned from history....the Bush years. So yes he is learning from history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 That's a huge leap. Russia was wanting to put nukes 100 miles off our coast lol. Not even close to the same, but nice stretch of an example. That was funny lol. Much dicier situation. Total world nuclear war in play............and yet JFK called their bluff. And here you are saying 'I guess your stance is to threaten a lunatic, who has nukes,'. Last time I checked the lunatic in charge of the USSR had nukes back then. You are taking a huge beating here, Crackattack. I suggest you put down the keyboard and hit the crack pipe some more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 Plus Russia wanted to give nukes to castro. What a horrible example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 If you say so. Your examples aren't even close to whats going on now, but nice huge reach/grasping at straws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 520 Posted March 21, 2014 This situation now doesn't demand a hard stance from US like the Cuban missile crisis did. Last I checked putin isn't trying to give nukes to mexico or Venezuela or threatening US intrests or territory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Googballz 39 Posted March 21, 2014 If you say so. Your examples aren't even close to whats going on now, but nice huge reach/grasping at straws. You brought up the scenario of challenging a loon with nukes, and said there is no way we should do that. I brought the real world example of JFK challenging a loon with nukes and making him back down. It isn't my fault I can bring real world examples to make your position look ridiculous. That is on you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,661 Posted March 21, 2014 Did Bush announce to the world military action would not be used when that started? If he did, I would say he was as big an idiot as Obama is today. Obummer said that military action is off the table? Link? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites