IGotWorms 4,060 Posted July 15, 2015 Alright Geeks, so I read the Introduction and Chapter One. So I'm led to believe this dude invented, created or perhaps "recognized" Tension Myositis Syndrome (TMS) back in 1984. Now mind you this is not one of many causes of back, neck and shoulder pain, it is "the major cause." Sarno seems to suggest 80% of Americans suffer from it. I suspect he may be overstating his case here. TMS is basically muscle tension, so if you think your back injury is due to a slipped disc or pinching nerves its probably actually just a soft tissue thing caused by emotional issues. Sarno's explanation is that the physical condition and the pain are real, so they aren't necessarily "all in your head," but the cause is emotional rather than physical. Basically rather than confront a painful emotion your brain creates a physical response instead. People think that back pain or neck pain is caused by a physical injury like something they got from a car accident or playing sports. But once they're told of TMS they can think back to stressors that were going on in their life like financial problems or an illness in the family. Or perhaps you are the sort of person who is always anxious or hyper-conscientious or a perfectionist so stuff just builds up all the time. So far this is sounding to me like an extension of the concept that stress can exacerbate medical issues. What this Sarno fellow is positing is that stress (he calls it emotion and psychological issues but it sure sounds like he's really talking about "stress") can actually cause symptoms that we attribute to an injury as opposed to merely making worse an existing physical injury. I have to say that I do fit the mold of the person Sarno describes as suffering from TMS, and when I had my most acute episode of back pain it was also during one of the most stressful times of my life. So that's interesting. On the other hand I do think Sarno is sort of flattering his reader a bit by suggesting that TMS sufferers are essentially super conscientious, extremely responsible, hyper-vigilant people. Generally those are pretty positive attributes in terms of how others will describe you. So there seems to be this idea that its some kind of cross to bear as you go through life. Anyway the subsequent chapters are supposed to explain why pain isn't attributable to real, observable issues like a herniated disc and exactly what kind of emotional/psychological issues cause TMS. Also presumably there will be a discussion of how to treat/avoid TMS. So far the only hint is an anecdote where some lady yelled at her sh1tbag brother and immediately felt better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 920 Posted July 15, 2015 Alright Geeks, so I read the Introduction and Chapter One. So I'm led to believe this dude invented, created or perhaps "recognized" Tension Myositis Syndrome (TMS) back in 1984. Now mind you this is not one of many causes of back, neck and shoulder pain, it is "the major cause." Sarno seems to suggest 80% of Americans suffer from it. I suspect he may be overstating his case here. TMS is basically muscle tension, so if you think your back injury is due to a slipped disc or pinching nerves its probably actually just a soft tissue thing caused by emotional issues. Sarno's explanation is that the physical condition and the pain are real, so they aren't necessarily "all in your head," but the cause is emotional rather than physical. Basically rather than confront a painful emotion your brain creates a physical response instead. People think that back pain or neck pain is caused by a physical injury like something they got from a car accident or playing sports. But once they're told of TMS they can think back to stressors that were going on in their life like financial problems or an illness in the family. Or perhaps you are the sort of person who is always anxious or hyper-conscientious or a perfectionist so stuff just builds up all the time. So far this is sounding to me like an extension of the concept that street can exacerbate medical issues. What this Sarno fellow is positing is that stress (he calls it emotion and psychological issues but it sure sounds like he's really talking about "stress") can actually cause symptoms that we attribute to an injury as opposed to merely making worse an existing physical injury. I have to say that I do fit the mold of the person Sarno describes as suffering from TMS, and when I had my most acute episode of back pain it was also during one of the most stressful times of my life. So that's interesting. On the other hand I do think Sarno is sort of flattering his reader a bit by suggesting that TMS sufferers are essentially super conscientious, extremely responsible, hyper-vigilant people. Generally those are pretty positive attributes in terms of how others will describe you. So there seems to be this idea that its some kind of cross to bear as you go through life. Anyway the subsequent chapters are supposed to explain why pain isn't attributable to real, observable issues like a herniated disc and exactly what kind of emotional/psychological issues cause TMS. Also presumably there will be a discussion of how to treat/avoid TMS. So far the only hint is an anecdote where some lady yelled at her sh1tbag brother and immediately felt better Oh there is... It's like going to AA. A-hole sponsor and everything. That's a pretty good summary though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted July 15, 2015 Oh there is... It's like going to AA. A-hole sponsor and everything. That's a pretty good summary though. I didn't realize you had actually read the book. Was it because of jerryskids? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,926 Posted July 15, 2015 Alright Geeks, so I read the Introduction and Chapter One. So I'm led to believe this dude invented, created or perhaps "recognized" Tension Myositis Syndrome (TMS) back in 1984. Now mind you this is not one of many causes of back, neck and shoulder pain, it is "the major cause." Sarno seems to suggest 80% of Americans suffer from it. I suspect he may be overstating his case here. TMS is basically muscle tension, so if you think your back injury is due to a slipped disc or pinching nerves its probably actually just a soft tissue thing caused by emotional issues. Sarno's explanation is that the physical condition and the pain are real, so they aren't necessarily "all in your head," but the cause is emotional rather than physical. Basically rather than confront a painful emotion your brain creates a physical response instead. People think that back pain or neck pain is caused by a physical injury like something they got from a car accident or playing sports. But once they're told of TMS they can think back to stressors that were going on in their life like financial problems or an illness in the family. Or perhaps you are the sort of person who is always anxious or hyper-conscientious or a perfectionist so stuff just builds up all the time. So far this is sounding to me like an extension of the concept that street can exacerbate medical issues. What this Sarno fellow is positing is that stress (he calls it emotion and psychological issues but it sure sounds like he's really talking about "stress") can actually cause symptoms that we attribute to an injury as opposed to merely making worse an existing physical injury. I have to say that I do fit the mold of the person Sarno describes as suffering from TMS, and when I had my most acute episode of back pain it was also during one of the most stressful times of my life. So that's interesting. On the other hand I do think Sarno is sort of flattering his reader a bit by suggesting that TMS sufferers are essentially super conscientious, extremely responsible, hyper-vigilant people. Generally those are pretty positive attributes in terms of how others will describe you. So there seems to be this idea that its some kind of cross to bear as you go through life. Anyway the subsequent chapters are supposed to explain why pain isn't attributable to real, observable issues like a herniated disc and exactly what kind of emotional/psychological issues cause TMS. Also presumably there will be a discussion of how to treat/avoid TMS. So far the only hint is an anecdote where some lady yelled at her sh1tbag brother and immediately felt better. Having not read the book recently, I'd be surprised if it said that 80% of Americans suffer from it. If it says that 80% of back pain suffered by Americans can be attributed to it, I'd be more likely to agree. He talks later in the book (I think that book; he has written several) about how we Americans have this epidemic of debilitating back pain while many/most other countries don't have such problems. He talks about adjoining Euro countries that have vastly different occurrences of neck pain. All I can say is that my wife and I are very smart and we both benefited from this info. My wife was in debilitating back pain for 4 months when I learned about and introduced the book to her; within a day the pain was almost completely gone. The thing is you need to internalize it, not act like you are smarter than it. That only happens if you have the combination of truly debilitating pain and a realization that you don't know how the highly feedback-oriented system of your body operates. Anyway, I appreciate your taking the time to read it as it is a personal crusade of mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted July 15, 2015 Having not read the book recently, I'd be surprised if it said that 80% of Americans suffer from it. If it says that 80% of back pain suffered by Americans can be attributed to it, I'd be more likely to agree. He talks later in the book (I think that book; he has written several) about how we Americans have this epidemic of debilitating back pain while many/most other countries don't have such problems. He talks about adjoining Euro countries that have vastly different occurrences of neck pain. All I can say is that my wife and I are very smart and we both benefited from this info. My wife was in debilitating back pain for 4 months when I learned about and introduced the book to her; within a day the pain was almost completely gone. The thing is you need to internalize it, not act like you are smarter than it. That only happens if you have the combination of truly debilitating pain and a realization that you don't know how the highly feedback-oriented system of your body operates. Anyway, I appreciate your taking the time to read it as it is a personal crusade of mine. I'm honestly trying to give it a fair shake despite the thread title. However there is no way I could blindly internalize it. I don't necessarily think I'm "smarter" than it but everything is susceptible to critique. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 920 Posted July 15, 2015 I didn't realize you had actually read the book. Was it because of jerryskids? Yah. I read it, on his advice, before I had back surgery in late 2013. And don't get me wrong, a lot of what he says makes a ton of sense. I don't remember all the details, but the rate of people with back pain has been way higher in the U.S. over the last couple decades. He supports his theory with other evidence like there's no correlation between an MRI/X-RAY and pain (as many people with images of totally healthy backs have pain while people with multiple herniated discs feel fine). To some extent I believe a big part of my post operative success was the belief that I was fixed. That in itself helped me release stress, anxiety and other issues I was having (that would cause TMS). I also did a lot of exercise, which he strongly urges. So there's definitely some truth in what he says. Where he sort of lost me is he suggests people stop all other treatment like chiropractors, ergonomics, massage, etc. Instead, he treats it like something your therapist would do as part of cognitive therapy. You write journals about how you feel and make peace with yourself. 12 step stuff. He's also pretty arrogant, and a bit of an old blowhard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Artista 460 Posted July 15, 2015 How you think and your (positive outlook) on what's happening/is about to happen is huge. It's not a new thing about how you think is as much as how you willl feel, and physically too, with the manifestation of physical ailments. I know some people with severe anxiety who have burning sensations in their skin. There is nothing wrong with them medically. All tests are fine. Relieve your stress/anxiety whatever and you will feel better. Will it be completely cured? Maybe not, and that's where the trip to the doc comes into play to make sure there isn't something for real going on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,359 Posted June 25, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/science/john-sarno-dead-healing-back-pain-doctor.html Dr. John Sarno, 93, Dies; Best-Selling Author Tied Pain to Anxieties John E. Sarno, a doctor at New York University whose controversial books on the psychological origins of chronic pain sold over a million copies, even while he was largely ignored or maligned by many of his medical peers, died Thursday in Danbury, Conn. He was 93. His death, at a hospital, was confirmed by his daughter Christina Horner, who said the cause was cardiac failure. He had a home in nearby Carmel, N.Y., as well as one in Manhattan. He died a day before his 94th birthday and the release of “All the Rage (Saved by Sarno),” a documentary film about him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 25, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/science/john-sarno-dead-healing-back-pain-doctor.html Dr. John Sarno, 93, Dies; Best-Selling Author Tied Pain to Anxieties I suspect it's all in his head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
