UPDATE: Derek Carr headed to the Saints

[Maximum Overkill 782]

Just to clarify, Carr is a less than an average Fantasy QB. He finished as the Fantasy QB 16 last season, that's not even a starter in a 14 team league.

Pathetic 

 

[Ray_T 602]

36 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Just to clarify, Carr is a less than an average Fantasy QB. He finished as the Fantasy QB 16 last season, that's not even a starter in a 14 team league.

Pathetic 

 

yeah, in 1 QB leagues hes likely a very good backup who can likely start in select matchups.

in 2 QB leagues hes a nice guy to have on the roster.   so its all about perspective, and the type of league you are in.

[weepaws 2,511]

Most leagues are one Qb leagues, in most leagues Carr has never been a worthy starter.  

[jrokh 570]

2 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Derrick Carrs grow on trees. Barely good enough but never good enough to win anything. 

Rattler is a more talented version of Carr. He'll eventually claim the job. 

Will Rattler’s UFL stats count towards your Dynasty League?

[Maximum Overkill 782]

41 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Will Rattler

You obviously don't play Superflex. But you do obviously play in Free Yahoo Leagues  

[Ray_T 602]

2 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

You obviously don't play Superflex. But you do obviously play in Free Yahoo Leagues  

Thats a bit uncalled for.  Hes right to be somewhat skeptical about Rattler.   He appeared to regress after a good start to his college career.

I'm not about to so far as to say hes not gonna play in the NFL as it is possible he does.    but he is one of those players whose floor is low and whose ceiling is high. (boom or bust)

he just happens to think its gonna be the latter and you obviously think its the former.   if he was that good a QB prospect he would have been drafted in round 1.   That said, scouts make mistakes all the time..    Look at all the first round duds over the years....... and Brady was drafted in roughly the same part of the draft back in his day.    

but given where he was drafted, if things dont work out, the team will be far more likely to kick him to the curb and cut their losses.   As a first rounder, usually you will get multiple chances to prove you can play.

Thats the biggest difference.

[Gepetto 1,003]

12 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Derrick Carrs grow on trees. Barely good enough but never good enough to win anything. 

Rattler is a more talented version of Carr. He'll eventually claim the job. 

https://imgur.com/made-with-woofmaker-seQSC0l

[Maximum Overkill 782]

10 hours ago, Ray_T said:

Thats a bit uncalled for.  Hes right to be somewhat skeptical about Rattler.   He appeared to regress after a good start to his college career.

But that wasn't the point. It's the 6th round of a SUPERFLEX ROOKIE draft. Are you drafting a WR6 to rot at the end of your bench or taking a shot on the most valuable position in Superfex? 

QBs are currency in Superfex, even for a bench spot. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

17 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Just to clarify, Carr is a less than an average Fantasy QB. He finished as the Fantasy QB 16 last season, that's not even a starter in a 14 team league.

Pathetic 

 

 

If someone is talking about Spencer Rattler, they're talking about real football because Rattler won't be in the NFL long enough to be fantasy relevant.

[Maximum Overkill 782]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

If someone is talking about Spencer Rattler, they're talking about real football because Rattler won't be in the NFL long enough to be fantasy relevant.

He might not be but neither will a 6th Round Superflex Rookie WR or anyone else for that matter. 

Does anyone here play Superflex??? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

3 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

He might not be but neither will a 6th Round Superflex Rookie WR or anyone else for that matter. 

Does anyone here play Superflex??? 

I play in a 12-team, 2 QB keeper league, with 24 roster spots, and I can guarantee that no one will draft Spencer Rattler.

[Maximum Overkill 782]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I play in a 12-team, 2 QB keeper league, with 24 roster spots, and I can guarantee that no one will draft Spencer Rattler.

I'm in 4 Superfex Leagues. He went 4th round in every single one except where I grabbed him in the 6th. 

Your crazy if you wouldn't take a shot. They already said he's #2 on the depth chart. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

58 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I'm in 4 Superfex Leagues. He went 4th round in every single one except where I grabbed him in the 6th. 

Your crazy if you wouldn't take a shot. They already said he's #2 on the depth chart. 

Good luck with him.  

[Maximum Overkill 782]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

Good luck with him.  

Yo, I'm not saying he's Caleb Williams, but a decent stash on the end of a dynasty bench for sure. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

6 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Yo, I'm not saying he's Caleb Williams, but a decent stash on the end of a dynasty bench for sure. 

Oh, I know you're not saying he's a QB1 or 2, I'm just saying he's not even a QB4 or 5.  He'll likely be out of the NFL in 2 years, is where I'm at.

[Maximum Overkill 782]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Oh, I know you're not saying he's a QB1 or 2, I'm just saying he's not even a QB4 or 5.  He'll likely be out of the NFL in 2 years, is where I'm at.

And you may be right but that's why we play Dynasty. If every player hit we'd be geniuses. 

Yet Bryce Young has one foot out of the league and the other on a banana peel. 

Did ya see that coming? #1 overall pick. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

11 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

And you may be right but that's why we play Dynasty. If every player hit we'd be geniuses. 

Yet Bryce Young has one foot out of the league and the other on a banana peel. 

Did ya see that coming? #1 overall pick. 

I don't think you're right on Young yet... though, from what I saw and read about Young, I'm not sure why he was a 1st round pick.  

That Panthers team was, and IS, still a dumpster fire.

[kilroy69 1,023]

Carr is a terrible qb with a pop gun arm. Having him at QB wastes Olaves talent and there is ZERO chance he can take them to the SB. None. 

[Maximum Overkill 782]

18 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Carr is a terrible qb with a pop gun arm. Having him at QB wastes Olaves talent and there is ZERO chance he can take them to the SB. None. 

Yup, he's a fraud. 

[Ray_T 602]

8 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

But that wasn't the point. It's the 6th round of a SUPERFLEX ROOKIE draft. Are you drafting a WR6 to rot at the end of your bench or taking a shot on the most valuable position in Superfex? 

QBs are currency in Superfex, even for a bench spot. 

that wasnt necessarily the part that was uncalled for.     but calling him a free yahoo league guy is a bit over the top.

I consider all of you on this board (with one or two exceptions) to be above that level in terms of knowledge.   Thats one of the reasons I like chatting on this board.

yes, grabbing a guy like this in round 6 of a rookie draft is certainly fair and reasonable.    but then again, most of your roster guys in a league like this dont come from round 6.   so you are playing with house money if he turns out to be a player you got him almost for free.

[Gepetto 1,003]

Carr is not terrible. He's actually a good QB, not for fantasy, but good enough to take the Saints to the playoffs if the defense doesn't suck. 

[Ray_T 602]

15 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Carr is not terrible. He's actually a good QB, not for fantasy, but good enough to take the Saints to the playoffs if the defense doesn't suck. 

There is a difference between a good QB and a good Fantasy QB.    the two are not mutually exclusive.

some of your best fantasy QB's are actually not great QB's for their team.   

I can fully respect a QB who will sacrafice a little in terms of his stats in order to get the win.   I may not want that guy on my fantasy roster, but I'd totally want him leading my team.

[weepaws 2,511]

I think in today’s nfl , passing is king, I think Carr is an avg Qb.  

In ff he’s a streamer.  

[Maximum Overkill 782]

3 hours ago, Gepetto said:

Carr is not terrible. He's actually a good QB, not for fantasy, but good enough to take the Saints to the playoffs if the defense doesn't suck. 

 

Derek Carr has not won in the playoffs in his career.

Derek Carr is 0-1 in the playoffs in his career.

He's 33 years old, it's not happening for Derek Carr, anywhere. 
 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

5 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

 

Derek Carr has not won in the playoffs in his career.

Derek Carr is 0-1 in the playoffs in his career.

He's 33 years old, it's not happening for Derek Carr, anywhere. 
 

 

Eli Manning had 8 playoff wins in his career... some call it a HOF career.  All 8 of those, in a 16 year career, came in 2 seasons.  He was 0-4 otherwise.  Meaning, he made the playoffs in only 6 of 16 seasons, and won games in 2 of them.  Not saying Carr is an HOF'er (nor Eli).  Not saying Carr is better than Eli.  Just saying that pretty much all of Carr's metric's are solid.  During Carr's time in Vegas (LA), you'll never find a season where the defense ranked in the top 20 in both yards and points against.  Last year, they were top 10 in both defense and offense in points, both top 15 in yards.  They had a winning record, the same record as Tampa, and lost out on a tie-breaker.  Carr, in his career, hasn't been the problem.  I'm not saying he IS the "solution", I'm just disagreeing with you that he IS the "problem".

[Ray_T 602]

42 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Eli Manning had 8 playoff wins in his career... some call it a HOF career.  All 8 of those, in a 16 year career, came in 2 seasons.  He was 0-4 otherwise.  Meaning, he made the playoffs in only 6 of 16 seasons, and won games in 2 of them.  Not saying Carr is an HOF'er (nor Eli).  Not saying Carr is better than Eli.  Just saying that pretty much all of Carr's metric's are solid.  During Carr's time in Vegas (LA), you'll never find a season where the defense ranked in the top 20 in both yards and points against.  Last year, they were top 10 in both defense and offense in points, both top 15 in yards.  They had a winning record, the same record as Tampa, and lost out on a tie-breaker.  Carr, in his career, hasn't been the problem.  I'm not saying he IS the "solution", I'm just disagreeing with you that he IS the "problem".

yeah he played in a pretty dysfunctional organization in Oakland.

the stats for any player on a bad team are never what they are on a good team

[weepaws 2,511]

8 playoff wins is greater than the zero Carr has.  Carr is an avg nfl Qb.  

[jrokh 570]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Eli Manning had 8 playoff wins in his career... some call it a HOF career. 

The Hall of Fame will call it a HOF career....

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

5 minutes ago, weepaws said:

8 playoff wins is greater than the zero Carr has.  Carr is an avg nfl Qb.  

So?  Eli for his career is 117-117... isn't that the very definition of "average"?  Eli played 16 season... Carr 10.  Let's say the Saints get a top 5 defense, improve their OLine, and over the next 6 seasons, nothing about Derek Carr's production changes.  But, in those 6 seasons, they win 2 Super Bowls, and he wins the Super MVP twice.  Does he then go from average to Hall of Famer, even though he's been the same player, just with a better team around him?  Eli Manning was never really fantasy relevant either.

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

37 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

yeah he played in a pretty dysfunctional organization in Oakland.

the stats for any player on a bad team are never what they are on a good team

Exactly.  He's a decent QB, just was surrounded by ineptness.  Most Raider's fans will say that.  If the Saints build that team back to how it was with Payton, they can be a 12-win team with Carr.

[Gepetto 1,003]

Stop evaluating qbs on wins and losses, that’s not a stat for a reason and it’s a team sport. He’s gotten contracts with two teams to start at an in the NFL. That’s not being terrible. His brother was terrible.

[jrokh 570]

19 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Eli Manning was never really fantasy relevant either.

One would think a QB who finished top ten all time in passing yards and TD's would hold some fantasy relevance. But keep digging that hole...

[weepaws 2,511]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Exactly.  He's a decent QB, just was surrounded by ineptness.  Most Raider's fans will say that.  If the Saints build that team back to how it was with Payton, they can be a 12-win team with Carr.

 

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

8 playoff wins is greater than the zero Carr has.  Carr is an avg nfl Qb.  

You say he’s a decent Qb, I say he’s an avg Qb. Seems like we have the same opinion about Qb Carr. 

[weepaws 2,511]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So?  Eli for his career is 117-117... isn't that the very definition of "average"?  Eli played 16 season... Carr 10.  Let's say the Saints get a top 5 defense, improve their OLine, and over the next 6 seasons, nothing about Derek Carr's production changes.  But, in those 6 seasons, they win 2 Super Bowls, and he wins the Super MVP twice.  Does he then go from average to Hall of Famer, even though he's been the same player, just with a better team around him?  Eli Manning was never really fantasy relevant either.

 

46 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Stop evaluating qbs on wins and losses, that’s not a stat for a reason and it’s a team sport. He’s gotten contracts with two teams to start at an in the NFL. That’s not being terrible. His brother was terrible.

Yea.  

[weepaws 2,511]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So?  Eli for his career is 117-117... isn't that the very definition of "average"?  Eli played 16 season... Carr 10.  Let's say the Saints get a top 5 defense, improve their OLine, and over the next 6 seasons, nothing about Derek Carr's production changes.  But, in those 6 seasons, they win 2 Super Bowls, and he wins the Super MVP twice.  Does he then go from average to Hall of Famer, even though he's been the same player, just with a better team around him?  Eli Manning was never really fantasy relevant either.

With Carr they go 0-1 in the playoffs, With Eli they win a super bowl.  

[Ray_T 602]

4 hours ago, Gepetto said:

Stop evaluating qbs on wins and losses, that’s not a stat for a reason and it’s a team sport. He’s gotten contracts with two teams to start at an in the NFL. That’s not being terrible. His brother was terrible.

Technically it is a stat.

and given the QB handles the ball on every play where you have the ball (other than maybe kicks)  I think Wins and Losses are definitely something you need to look at when evaluating a QB

playoff wins and superbowls are also a stat.   arguably THE most important stat for a QB

 

[Maximum Overkill 782]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Eli for his career is 117-117

 

Manning was named Super Bowl MVP in both championships,

That's a Hall of Famer 8 days a week 

[TBayXXXVII 2,192]

26 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

 

Manning was named Super Bowl MVP in both championships,

That's a Hall of Famer 8 days a week 

... as long as your name is Manning and you play in NY.  Willing to bet if Carr does that in New Orleans it'll be "Yeah, but he wasn't really all that good most of his career".

[Ray_T 602]

40 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

 

Manning was named Super Bowl MVP in both championships,

That's a Hall of Famer 8 days a week 

it is.    2 superbowl MVP awards and 2 rings makes up for a whole lot of average to above average production.

why? 

because the whole reason teams churn through QB's (sometimes even decent QB's) is because they want one that they think can win them a superbowl.

so the fact that Eli won one twice and was MVP both times?   you can put up with all the rest.  you take those 2 championships and be happy you have them.

[Gepetto 1,003]

2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

Technically it is a stat.

and given the QB handles the ball on every play where you have the ball (other than maybe kicks)  I think Wins and Losses are definitely something you need to look at when evaluating a QB

playoff wins and superbowls are also a stat.   arguably THE most important stat for a QB

 

Wins and losses is not an official NFL stat for a QB. Prove that it is?