TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 23 23 minutes ago, weepaws said: No love, he’s better than Fields, Minshew, so I would rather have him on my team. Great no, better than those others , yes. I don't have a problem with Mayfield at the proper cost. He's a bottom tier starter in the league. Pay him $15M and be done with it. The team should walk away if he wants more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 569 Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said: I don't have a problem with Mayfield at the proper cost. He's a bottom tier starter in the league. Pay him $15M and be done with it. The team should walk away if he wants more. You can’t get an average starter off his rookie contract for 15 million. Not realistic. My prediction Bucs sign Baker close to the 30 million he wants, maybe more like 28… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, jrokh said: You can’t get an average starter off his rookie contract for 15 million. Not realistic. My prediction Bucs sign Baker close to the 30 million he wants, maybe more like 28… They're definitely signing Mayfield but it's not the right choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 569 Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: They're definitely signing Mayfield but it's not the right choice. Maybe, but it was last year… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, jrokh said: Maybe, but it was last year… It was? He won a single playoff game against a wounded duck that stumbled into the playoffs, anyone would of beaten the Eagles. They'll be losing Mike Evans and have a lot of expiring contracts. Why bother? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 569 Posted February 23 If they are losing Evans and others than your position is slightly better, but who said they are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, jrokh said: You can’t get an average starter off his rookie contract for 15 million. Not realistic. My prediction Bucs sign Baker close to the 30 million he wants, maybe more like 28… Mayfield cost them $6M last year. You're a QBR guy... who had a higher QBR last year, Gardner Minshew or Baker Mayfield? Which one can be had for $6M this year? They have $50M in cap space. To piss away anything of substance on a backend league starter, is a waste of money. I don't doubt they're going to re-sign him, I just think they're wrong and if they give him more than $15M AAV, they're foolish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 569 Posted February 23 38 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said: Mayfield cost them $6M last year. You're a QBR guy... who had a higher QBR last year, Gardner Minshew or Baker Mayfield? Which one can be had for $6M this year? They have $50M in cap space. To piss away anything of substance on a backend league starter, is a waste of money. I don't doubt they're going to re-sign him, I just think they're wrong and if they give him more than $15M AAV, they're foolish. Good backups get 10 million. 15 for an average starter is a pipe dream. Last year Baker was a reclamation project, that is the only way to get a starter for peanuts. Like say Mitch Trubisky. Minshew is a backup, not a starter that’s why you can get him cheap. Not saying he’s good, he’s high average, which is worth 25-30 million in today’s market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 24 1 hour ago, jrokh said: Good backups get 10 million. 15 for an average starter is a pipe dream. Last year Baker was a reclamation project, that is the only way to get a starter for peanuts. Like say Mitch Trubisky. Minshew is a backup, not a starter that’s why you can get him cheap. Not saying he’s good, he’s high average, which is worth 25-30 million in today’s market. Mayfield is a finished project, that's a below average/back end of the league starter. Giving him anything that you can't move on from in April is a mistake. If Tampa says to him, "Go test the market and give us a chance to match", he'll come back for pennies. With the draft having anywhere from 5 to 7 QB's going in the top 40, plus Cousins and Wilson out there, and possibly Fields, that's anywhere from 8 to 10 QB's available. There aren't 10 teams who need a QB, and at best, Mayfield is #8 among the the 9 to 11 QB's. Meaning, there's no market for Mayfield. It's basically whatever Tampa wants to give him. There's no reason to give him more than $15M. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted February 24 Mayfield would be a good fit for the Vikings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gridiron whirlwinds 2 Posted February 24 10 hours ago, weepaws said: Mayfield would be a good fit for the Vikings. Absolutely agree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted February 24 4 hours ago, gridiron whirlwinds said: Absolutely agree I don't see the Vikings parting ways with Cousins. By all accounts Cousins wants to be there and they want Cousins back. Money won't be the hang up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Showboat 145 Posted February 25 On 2/23/2024 at 7:00 PM, TBayXXXVII said: Mayfield is a finished project, that's a below average/back end of the league starter. Giving him anything that you can't move on from in April is a mistake. If Tampa says to him, "Go test the market and give us a chance to match", he'll come back for pennies. With the draft having anywhere from 5 to 7 QB's going in the top 40, plus Cousins and Wilson out there, and possibly Fields, that's anywhere from 8 to 10 QB's available. There aren't 10 teams who need a QB, and at best, Mayfield is #8 among the the 9 to 11 QB's. Meaning, there's no market for Mayfield. It's basically whatever Tampa wants to give him. There's no reason to give him more than $15M. It's been an interesting discussion. Mayfield is young enough that I could see a Plunkett-esque type career in that he could win it all with the the right team (which may just be the Bucs). $15M would be a steal but not realistic IMO - some team out there will give him $30M+. Cousins IMO is the finished product - he will get you stats and probably to the playoffs with any kind of decent team around him, but is a proven choker when it matters most. Definitely not worth the $40-45M it would take to land him. Wilson could be an interesting bridge if he could be had for the league minimum with the Broncos on the hook for his massive salary - I just don't see a QB whisperer on the Bucs staff who could get anything more out of him than Payton was able to last season. Going with a rookie is definitely an option, but not without risk - history is littered with highly touted college QBs who flop when they get to the NFL. A combo of Wilson and a rookie may be the best option for the Bucs, but there will be regrets if Mayfield end up with the Vikings (for anything less than $40M) and earns a ring or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 9:35 PM, Showboat said: It's been an interesting discussion. Mayfield is young enough that I could see a Plunkett-esque type career in that he could win it all with the the right team (which may just be the Bucs). $15M would be a steal but not realistic IMO - some team out there will give him $30M+. Cousins IMO is the finished product - he will get you stats and probably to the playoffs with any kind of decent team around him, but is a proven choker when it matters most. Definitely not worth the $40-45M it would take to land him. Wilson could be an interesting bridge if he could be had for the league minimum with the Broncos on the hook for his massive salary - I just don't see a QB whisperer on the Bucs staff who could get anything more out of him than Payton was able to last season. Going with a rookie is definitely an option, but not without risk - history is littered with highly touted college QBs who flop when they get to the NFL. A combo of Wilson and a rookie may be the best option for the Bucs, but there will be regrets if Mayfield end up with the Vikings (for anything less than $40M) and earns a ring or two. I can't say I know enough about Plunkett to agree or disagree with you. I think I've mentioned this here before (maybe not), but while I don't think pro-football-reference.com's, "Approximate Value" is the be-all-end-all of metric's, I think it does have merit. When you look at Plunkett's AV, his total with the Raiders was 46 which was better than New England, where he was at 44, so it's not like his production was anything different, just the caliber of team was different. That was also in an era when defense and rushing was more important than the QB. To be clear, I'm not saying the Bucs should go get Cousins (even though I doubt he'd be available to them), but I'd much rather they spend $40M on him than $30M (or more), on Mayfield. I'd rather the Bucs wait until the draft. Like I said, I don't think there's a market for Mayfield. Wait until the draft... if they can't get the guy they want, then offer Mayfield a deal. Yeah, I really believe that there are a total of zero teams who have interest in giving Mayfield $30M+. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted February 26 No tags for Rbs. Mmm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Showboat 145 Posted February 27 3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said: Yeah, I really believe that there are a total of zero teams who have interest in giving Mayfield $30M+. This is where we disagree. I could certainly be wrong, but I really do believe there will be teams out there willing to give Mayfield $30M. The Vikings for one should certainly be looking at an alternative to Cousins. It's a game of chicken that the Bucs will be playing, unless the owners collude to not offer free agent QB contracts until after the draft. It is certainly a huge advantage if a team can get the right rookie QB, but "getting their guy" is no guarantee - even sure-fire generational talents like Luck and Lawrence won exactly how many championships? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted February 27 I won't lie, I'd love to see Barkley in Philly but Roseman would never pay that much for a RB. He'd be a great fit to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 27 15 hours ago, Showboat said: This is where we disagree. I could certainly be wrong, but I really do believe there will be teams out there willing to give Mayfield $30M. The Vikings for one should certainly be looking at an alternative to Cousins. It's a game of chicken that the Bucs will be playing, unless the owners collude to not offer free agent QB contracts until after the draft. It is certainly a huge advantage if a team can get the right rookie QB, but "getting their guy" is no guarantee - even sure-fire generational talents like Luck and Lawrence won exactly how many championships? Yeah, that's fine, I wouldn't be totally shocked if you're right on that front... I'm not in every GM's office. LOL Here's the perspective that I'm coming from... Last year, the following teams had a chance to offer Baker Mayfield a deal... to start, and pay him only $6M to get him. Washington - rather take a shot on a 5th round pick (Sam Howell) Atlanta - rather take a shot on a 3rd round pick (Desmond Ridder) New Orleans - Give a long term deal to Derek Carr Carolina (who already said "thanks, but no thanks") - rather take a shot on a rookie... note, gave up multiple picks to trade up to #1. New England - rather waste another year on Mac Jones Houston - rather take a shot on a rookie Indianapolis - rather take a shot on a rookie Tennessee - rather keep Tannehill and run with a rookie as a backup Vegas - rather keep Garoppolo and run with a rookie as a backup TAMPA - Only gave him $4M to compete for a starting job. That's one-third of the league who could've given Mayfield a $6M deal to start and ALL of them, said "No thanks", when it came to offering a starting job at pennies. Fast forward to today. Mayfield had a year like 2 others (2018 & 2020), so it's not like he did something special. Nothing changed with Mayfield. As I stated on page 1, there are about 8 to 10 teams who need a QB (outlined here). There is Justin Fields, Kirk Cousins, and Russell Wilson who are potential veterans and 5 to 7 rookies that will be available this offseason. So, we have more QB's than need, in a sense. I just don't see Mayfield ranking in the top 10 on anyone's list (other than Tampa maybe). Which means, they're bidding against only themselves. Let's assume that the Vikings re-sign Cousins (I think they will, because I believe they like him), and because he has the ability to use all of his weapons. Mayfield has proven this year, that he can't. He proved he has tunnel vision. I think someone in the top 10 (Atlanta?), trades for Fields and the Bears draft a QB. I think the Patriots get Russell Wilson. That's the 3 other veterans with new teams. That leaves us with 4 teams in the top 15 of the draft with a QB and only Denver, Tennessee, and Vegas left, who need a QB? Which of those would rather give Mayfield $30M+ AAV than draft a rookie? I agree with your last line, but I don't think it's as easy as that. Teams picking in the top 5 to 10, and taking a rookie QB are generally going to really terrible teams. Getting the results that Stroud brought are rare... but, the objective overall is to find a franchise QB. After that, the team does have to build around a player. The QB still needs help. Tampa is in a situation somewhat like KC, when they traded up to get Mahomes, like Baltimore when they traded back into the first round to get Jackson. They have a good team, solid, just need a real QB. They're not a terrible team. A QB coming into Tampa with have one of the best WR duo's in the NFL, a top 10 pass blocking offensive line, a legit starting TE, and a good RB who's an excellent receiver out of the backfield. Teams picking in the top 10 of the draft almost never have something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted February 27 Looks like most of those teams made a mistake, how many teams passed on taking Brady when he was drafted? That doesn’t mean that all of those same teams won’t see his potential based on his success last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 28 18 hours ago, weepaws said: Looks like most of those teams made a mistake, how many teams passed on taking Brady when he was drafted? That doesn’t mean that all of those same teams won’t see his potential based on his success last season. What potential is that? That in a great situation where you have one of the best WR duo's in the NFL, an above average pass blocking offensive line, a legit starting TE, and a solid runner/excellent pass catching RB, he can put up mediocre numbers that result in the 20th ranked offense in the league? That potential? Yeah, I'm sure teams are lining up to pay $30M to a guy who can lead them to below average offensive production. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted February 28 That potential is a better Qb option than they had, or have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted February 28 7 hours ago, weepaws said: That potential is a better Qb option than they had, or have. You don't seek out below average production to give $30M. At that point, it's better to trade up. It's in Tampa's best interest to let Mayfield test the market. If he can get a payday from someone, then let him go. When he finds out that the best deal he can get is good backup money, then he can come back for $15M. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike FF Today 608 Posted March 1 Another free agent RB... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted March 1 Get ready to cash in those Ty Chandler dynasty chips, it's happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted March 1 7 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said: Get ready to cash in those Ty Chandler dynasty chips, it's happening. Mmm. Did you base this great insight on the fact that Mattison is being released? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 5:44 AM, TBayXXXVII said: What potential is that? That in a great situation where you have one of the best WR duo's in the NFL, an above average pass blocking offensive line, a legit starting TE, and a solid runner/excellent pass catching RB, he can put up mediocre numbers that result in the 20th ranked offense in the league? That potential? Yeah, I'm sure teams are lining up to pay $30M to a guy who can lead them to below average offensive production. Some teams will be Looking at 4000 plus passing yards and 28 tds as upgrade potential, what the market is for a Qb with those numbers is the fault of the owners. They have been over paying for all players for years, so if the market is 30 mil i guess that’s what they will pay him. Not one of these players in any sport deserves to be paid the ridiculous amount they are paid to play a game. I agree with you about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted March 1 5 hours ago, weepaws said: Mmm. Did you base this great insight on the fact that Mattison is being released? School is in. The Vikings need to resign Cousins and especially Justin Jefferson, amongst many others. They will not be in the RB market, and why would they be? Chandler was extremely efficient and still on team control, cheap. They'll definitely add a RB for depth but nobody who will challenge Chandler for the meat and potatoes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said: School is in. The Vikings need to resign Cousins and especially Justin Jefferson, amongst many others. They will not be in the RB market, and why would they be? Chandler was extremely efficient and still on team control, cheap. They'll definitely add a RB for depth but nobody who will challenge Chandler for the meat and potatoes. Good too see that ff school is paying off for you, you’re almost ready to remove the training wheels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, weepaws said: Good too see that ff school is paying off for you, you’re almost ready to remove the training wheels. Bless Your Little Heart 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Showboat 145 Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said: The Vikings need to resign Cousins and especially Justin Jefferson, amongst many others. They will not be in the RB market, and why would they be? Chandler was extremely efficient and still on team control, cheap. They'll definitely add a RB for depth but nobody who will challenge Chandler for the meat and potatoes. Need is a strong word. I think it would be a mistake for the Vikings to sign Cousins for the price he is asking. The only thing Cousins has shown is that he is not a crunch-time QB. Any RB the Vikings may draft or sign is a threat to take touches away from Chandler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 645 Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, Showboat said: Any RB the Vikings may draft or sign is a threat to take touches away from Chandler. I never said otherwise. I believe my exact quote was "They'll definitely add a RB for depth but nobody who will challenge Chandler for the meat and potato's". Translation, Chandler will get the meaningful touches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Showboat 145 Posted March 2 I don't think the Vikings will just hand a workhorse role over to Chandler - he's got about a 50-50 chance for the "meat and potatos", but he'll need to beat out whoever they bring in and Akers is still hanging around. Most likely it will be some form of RBBC which pretty much all teams are transitioning to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Showboat said: I don't think the Vikings will just hand a workhorse role over to Chandler - he's got about a 50-50 chance for the "meat and potatos", but he'll need to beat out whoever they bring in and Akers is still hanging around. Most likely it will be some form of RBBC which pretty much all teams are transitioning to. Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike FF Today 608 Posted March 4 Mike Evans off the board... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gridiron whirlwinds 2 Posted March 4 Good move by the Bucs. Great receiver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,460 Posted March 4 Exactly what Mayfield needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
