Packers submit proposal to ban "tush push"

[listen2me 23 1,924]

3 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

The new thing is grumbling about the line being offside- which they are...

But I fail to see how a few extra inches will prevent them from getting the first down. 

Weird post.  

Yet a WR flinching will prevent the defense from being able to defend a play?  Thats called all day on a normal football play.  

Their linemen can literally start off the ball before the ball is snapped, on an inches play where that is everything....yet you dont see how it would matter?  Lol.  It would matter on that play more than any other normal football play.  

[Sean Mooney 2,018]

16 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Weird post.  

Yet a WR flinching will prevent the defense from being able to defend a play?  Thats called all day on a normal football play.  

Their linemen can literally start off the ball before the ball is snapped, on an inches play where that is everything....yet you dont see how it would matter?  Lol.  It would matter on that play more than any other normal football play.  

The play's success doesn't hinge on 4 inches.

The play;'s success is more based on the rule change 20 years ago to allow people to push the ball carrier forward. Until you get rid of that the play will succeed far more than it fails. 

Weird post from you. 

[listen2me 23 1,924]

52 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The play's success doesn't hinge on 4 inches.

The play;'s success is more based on the rule change 20 years ago to allow people to push the ball carrier forward. Until you get rid of that the play will succeed far more than it fails. 

Weird post from you. 

You dont know much about football do you?  The push matters but if the OL gets beat it doesnt.  The initial push of the OL makes the play work.  Without a good get off it does not work.  When you are lining up for any 4th and short and both teams know its coming up the gut, back or QB, the push is the whole shabang.  When interior OL gets even a split second head start before the ball and the defenders, it will be impossible.  Especially when the line is that good.  Its literally a bang bang play.  

Why do you think teams care so much about getting off the ball in any circumstance or play?  Why do teams look for guys who can get off the ball?  Because split seconds matter in OL/DL play.  Its literally the most important thing about either line, especially on a bang bang play to try and get a foot.  

Sure could a QB get stood up and the actual "tush push" make the difference?  Yes not saying it doesnt at times. But if they are going to get to drive ahead before anyone else then call it a wrap. 

You keep saying 4 inches.  As if distance is the factor here.  Its 315lb men being able to start their momentum before the other 315lb men get to start.  

So in other words the OL could get blown up and as long as someone is behind Hurts pushing it will work?  

[listen2me 23 1,924]

4 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

the offense gets forward progress when the D pushes a ball carrier backwards.  Why should they also get forward progress when an offensive player pushes the ball carrier forward? that's the dumbest part of the play. Normally I am all for "if you don't like it, stop it" but it's never made sense to me that a ball carrier can be pushed forward once they got rid of the D being able to push a guy back... whenever that was implemented. 

Agreed and I have said this before.  

Not saying each tush push the QB is stood up.  Many times Hurts on that type of sneak will get it just by his power and the OL being good at the technique.   But when a QB is stood up, no idea how forward progress isnt stopped.  Seems like the rules to me.  But who knows when rules are in play anymore.  They are allowed to have scrums and drag ball carries down the field these days.   If a ball carrier is behind thr line stood up by 4 players and another comes in to finish it off or jump up on top its a flag.  If the RB is 10 yards down field and 4 guys are around him in a scrum, his teammates are allowed to bulldoze into the scrum and push it along.  

Its like helmet to helmet personal fouls.  Yet a RB is allowed to lower his head and drive it right into a tacklers facemask.  The sub rules within the rules are too much.  I fully believe the NFL likes to muddy the waters so fans will bltch about refs and create monday morning news.  

[WhiteWonder 2,859]

as far as i'm concerned, as soon as an offensive player starts pushing the ball carrier, the play should be dead there. So as soon as Barkley puts his hands on Hurts... done. Run a normal QB sneak.  If you want to allow offensive players to push their guys forward then you need to allow defenders to stand up a running back, and drive him backwards 3-4 yards and he's not down until he goes down. 

[Strike 5,843]

So they changed a rule 20 years ago that no one took advantage of until 5 years ago, and even then only 1 team has had any significant success with it, but it's the reason football as a sport is dying.  

[WhiteWonder 2,859]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

So they changed a rule 20 years ago that no one took advantage of until 5 years ago, and even then only 1 team has had any significant success with it, but it's the reason football as a sport is dying.  

I don't think football is dying because of it or anything, I just don't understand why it's allowed. So I guess I do not understand why that rule was changed. Or, like i've been saying, allow the defense to push a ball carrier backwards for negative yards instead of spotting the ball at the forward progress point.  Just make it fair both ways, imo. 

[listen2me 23 1,924]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

So they changed a rule 20 years ago that no one took advantage of until 5 years ago, and even then only 1 team has had any significant success with it, but it's the reason football as a sport is dying.  

Not dying.  But the rules of football go out the window on the play.  Not only for offense but they are letting defenses sneak up so far over the ball.  Nothing is legal.  But the play is just soooo much fun that who cares about staple rules of football?  

Doesnt even have to be about the push right now.  Thats allowed.  But its evolved into a free for all where no one has to line ip correctly.   Hell the center is wildly over the ball more than other plays.  They teach the center to put it back some with head over the ball.     

If we want to keep this play go for it.  Its allowed.  But lets clarify if this play gets a pass on staple rules before we kickoff.  

[listen2me 23 1,924]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I don't think football is dying because of it or anything, I just don't understand why it's allowed. So I guess I do not understand why that rule was changed. Or, like i've been saying, allow the defense to push a ball carrier backwards for negative yards instead of spotting the ball at the forward progress point.  Just make it fair both ways, imo. 

Or all the scrums downfield where OL is literally allowed to grab their rb and drag them.  Happened all the time last year suddenly.  

A. I just want to know the rules.   From there we can figure it out.  Thats too much to ask in a game that already has so many subjective rules.  

[listen2me 23 1,924]

Alls fair game when participating in a little brotherly love.  MDC knows this.  

[Sean Mooney 2,018]

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

You dont know much about football do you?  The push matters but if the OL gets beat it doesnt.  The initial push of the OL makes the play work.  Without a good get off it does not work.  When you are lining up for any 4th and short and both teams know its coming up the gut, back or QB, the push is the whole shabang.  When interior OL gets even a split second head start before the ball and the defenders, it will be impossible.  Especially when the line is that good.  Its literally a bang bang play.  

Why do you think teams care so much about getting off the ball in any circumstance or play?  Why do teams look for guys who can get off the ball?  Because split seconds matter in OL/DL play.  Its literally the most important thing about either line, especially on a bang bang play to try and get a foot.  

Sure could a QB get stood up and the actual "tush push" make the difference?  Yes not saying it doesnt at times. But if they are going to get to drive ahead before anyone else then call it a wrap. 

You keep saying 4 inches.  As if distance is the factor here.  Its 315lb men being able to start their momentum before the other 315lb men get to start.  

So in other words the OL could get blown up and as long as someone is behind Hurts pushing it will work?  

I have played plenty of football in my life. I know quite a bit about it. 

You are adding tons of things to the discussion that have nothing to do with anything related to this- especially when I agreed the offensive line is offsides. And if the interior OL is getting a "split second" head start- that's a false start. So maybe it is you who knows nothing about football.

The larger point is- the one thing you could possible argue is that by the center being able to line up ahead of the ball it gives them a little extra leverage pushing forward. But even that can be negated depending on how strong the push is the defensive line gets.

 

[seafoam1 3,248]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I have played plenty of football in my life. I know quite a bit about it. 

 

 With the kids he babysits. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,711]

A defender can’t use a teammate as leverage in order to block a kick. I don’t see what the difference is between that and pushing the ball carrier.