India-Pakistan: 125 Jets Clash in One of Largest Dogfights in Recent History

[nobody 2,581]

4 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

You keep doing you....

Ok

[Ron_Artest 1,126]

22 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

I have no idea where you are getting your info but PLEASE put down the crack pipe

An aircraft  like the F22 with THRUST VECTORING will destroy an aircraft like the F16........this is not only a KNOWN FACT but pretty common knowledge. 

Looks like @nobody should have googled this first instead of of just spewing nonsensical garbage.  Thanks for your expert opinion.

[Nomad99 711]

2 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Looks like @nobody should have googled this first instead of of just spewing nonsensical garbage.  Thanks for your expert opinion.

This stuff is kind of a side hobby for me & so I'm fairly well informed. I know it's pretty easy to misspeak about stuff(myself included) but it's pretty well know that thrust vectoring aircraft are super maneuverable & run circles around other aircraft at close quarters.....they make the old Russian "Cobra" maneuver look like child's play.

[Mike Honcho 5,148]

12 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

This stuff is kind of a side hobby for me & so I'm fairly well informed. I know it's pretty easy to misspeak about stuff(myself included) but it's pretty well know that thrust vectoring aircraft are super maneuverable & run circles around other aircraft at close quarters.....they make the old Russian "Cobra" maneuver look like child's play.

I just looked that up - that's Maverick's move! Is Maverick a commie? 

[Nomad99 711]

8 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

I just looked that up - that's Maverick's move! Is Maverick a commie? 

I think we should run that through the rumor mill!

[Nomad99 711]

11 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

I just looked that up - that's Maverick's move! Is Maverick a commie? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_maneuver#:~:text=Soviet Union,-Research and developments&text=Viktor Pugachev was the first,was quickly named after Pugachev.

 

I think it was actually a Swedish pilot that may have invented it but the Rusky got credited.

[nobody 2,581]

8 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Looks like @nobody should have googled this first instead of of just spewing nonsensical garbage.  Thanks for your expert opinion.

It's more than a hobby for me.  I help design some of the sensors on many of these platforms.  5th Gen wins on superior avionics and stealth.  F16 whoops an f35 close in.  F22 given equal radar and senors maybe 50-50.  I guess f-22 wins due to superior targeting sensors.  

The point is F16s wouldn't get close enough for it to matter.

I was talking 5th gens in general, btw 

[Nomad99 711]

50 minutes ago, nobody said:

It's more than a hobby for me.  I help design some of the sensors on many of these platforms.  5th Gen wins on superior avionics and stealth.  F16 whoops an f35 close in.  F22 given equal radar and senors maybe 50-50.  I guess f-22 wins due to superior targeting sensors.  

The point is F16s wouldn't get close enough for it to matter.

I was talking 5th gens in general, btw 

Sensors have nothing to do with maneuverability.......unless they are the type involved with control surfaces. The F35 is a complete different animal than the F22.....complete different mission. It also doesn't use thrust vectoring other than VTOL. I have no doubt that an F16, close in, could hold it's own vs an F35. Against an F22, you would be hard pressed to find someone to take that bet. I'm not saying it can't be done but the odds are not in your favor. It's amazing that the F16, 15 & 18 can still effectively operate in theater as old as they are...even with block upgrades but the closest competition the F22 has at close range is not an American aircraft. 

[nobody 2,581]

My point was that the f-22 has superior targeting in that it can target enemies further off-boresight.  That's the superior sensor. I was specifically talking about.  This is also why I didn't want to talk about it.  There are puts and takes by the way in any design.  The stealth characteristics of fighters often conflict with the dynamics.  

And again I said 5th Gen in general.  You were the one that brought up the f22 specifically.

And again my statement holds.  These platforms are designed to kill enemies from miles away.

[Nomad99 711]

On 5/9/2025 at 4:04 PM, nobody said:

 5th Gen fighters aren't as maneuverable as the likes of the F16 regardless of what you may have seen on top gun and the 5th Gen fighters wouldnt be a favorite close in. 

That's your quote. The F22 & SU 57 are bothe 5th gen fighters. BOTH of them use thrust vectoring and are FAR more maneuverable than an F16. There is no place in the sky where the F16....even with data-link, would have an advantage over either aircraft, INCLUDING CLOSE IN DOGFIGHTING.

[nobody 2,581]

So every 5th Gen fighter is as maneuverable as an F16?

[iam90sbaby 2,503]

8 hours ago, nobody said:

My point was that the f-22 has superior targeting in that it can target enemies further off-boresight.  That's the superior sensor. I was specifically talking about.  This is also why I didn't want to talk about it.  There are puts and takes by the way in any design.  The stealth characteristics of fighters often conflict with the dynamics.  

And again I said 5th Gen in general.  You were the one that brought up the f22 specifically.

And again my statement holds.  These platforms are designed to kill enemies from miles away.

:tips fedora: 

[Nomad99 711]

3 hours ago, nobody said:

So every 5th Gen fighter is as maneuverable as an F16?

No.....never claimed that. You broadly claimed that the F16 was more maneuverable than 5th gen aircraft. You broadly claimed that 5th gen aircraft wouldn't be favored close in. I simply pointed out 2 glaring exceptions to your incorrect assessment. 

[nobody 2,581]

Cool.  Glad you're a fan of my work.

[jbycho 630]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Cool.  Glad you're a fan of my work.

Well, if you just read it, I guess he's more calling out your incorrect "work". Whatever "work" that is. 

[Voltaire 5,208]

This is less exciting that I'd hoped for. Was looking for WWI or WWII or Star Wars or Battlestar Galactica type dogfighting.

Eddie Rickenbacker would not be impressed.

[nobody 2,581]

On 5/11/2025 at 1:57 PM, nobody said:

It's more than a hobby for me.  I help design some of the sensors on many of these platforms.  5th Gen wins on superior avionics and stealth.  F16 whoops an f35 close in.  F22 given equal radar and senors maybe 50-50.  I guess f-22 wins due to superior targeting sensors.  

The point is F16s wouldn't get close enough for it to matter.

I was talking 5th gens in general, btw 

 

On 5/12/2025 at 12:15 PM, jbycho said:

Well, if you just read it, I guess he's more calling out your incorrect "work". Whatever "work" that is. 

Hobby for him. Job for me. If he loves those planes. He loves my work.

Although I guess his true love is thrust vectoring which I didn't have shìt to do with.

At least he seems to realize the f35 isn't that great of a fighter which is why I assume he latched onto the F22.

[Nomad99 711]

3 hours ago, nobody said:

 

Hobby for him. Job for me. If he loves those planes. He loves my work.

Although I guess his true love is thrust vectoring which I didn't have shìt to do with.

At least he seems to realize the f35 isn't that great of a fighter which is why I assume he latched onto the F22.

That's right.....you didn't have anything to do with aircraft maneuverability. You had to do with sensors......YET you made an unfounded claim about maneuverability.  Thrust- Vectoring is the EXACT REASON your claims of F16 prowess against 5th gen aircraft like the F22 & SU-57 in dogfight are erroneous. There is a reason the F22 is considered "super-manouverable" and the F16 is not. That said, the F16 can carry a wide variety of ordinance for strike packages, deliver said ordinance & then go toe to toe with most aircraft out there in an air to air role. That's a pretty good reputation for an aircraft classified as an Air Superiority Fighter" The F-35 is NOT an Air Superiority Fighter. The F-22 is THE PREEMINENT Air Superiority Fighter.....as of now.

[nobody 2,581]

Nah