Those with Caleb

[LVSaint429 34]

19 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Williams looking good again. 

He’s in a good rhythm & stepping into his throws. Looks strong despite the cold

[jrokh 618]

5 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

One is going to the playoffs, one isn't. 

Williams is better right NOW, Fuk your stats. 

Oh, so when Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Mark Rypien won the Superbowl they were better than all the other QB's? Do you ever get tired of having the worst takes on this bored?

[Ray_T 797]

7 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

One is going to the playoffs, one isn't. 

Williams is better right NOW, Fuk your stats. 

there is only one stat that truly matters at this time of year. 

How many wins do you have.

come playoff time its did you win the last game of the NFL season? (ie. did u win the superbowl)

those are the most important stats.  the rest only allow us to play fantasy football, but are not nearly as important

[RLLD 4,282]

I think Williams is only going to get better, IMHO I see him having a decently high ceiling in the future

[Ray_T 797]

8 hours ago, RLLD said:

I think Williams is only going to get better, IMHO I see him having a decently high ceiling in the future

That is my thought as well.

it is actually unusual for a QB to come in as a rookie and light the world on fire.    it does happen, but its more common for a kid to take a year or two to get their NFL footing under them.

to those who had the patience to hang onto him, congrats.   the last few games hes shown some signs he can play against some pretty decent defenses.   at this point I'd say there is an 80% chance that he will be a viable fantasy starter in the forseeable future.

[weepaws 3,413]

He’s already better, better than I thought he would be.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,679]

On 12/8/2025 at 12:08 PM, listen2me 23 said:

Im not talking about fantasy football.  

And I didnt say id take Bryce over Caleb.  I was just wondering why 1 guy got written off after year one with a crap team and changing coaches and the other its made into an excuse.  

Its kind of like when guys like Darnold and Baker were written off.  Then Justin Fields got year after year of excuses.

The guidelines as to how QBs are seen seem to be random.   

Like I said im not trashing Caleb.  Hes improved.   Im not saying he sucks and wont ever be solid.  But I dont see exactly what hes shown with good weapons, a top OL, and one of the very best offensive coaches....he will have a big game here or there.  But a lot of Justin Fields looking games. Im impressed with Ben Johnson and how they rebuilt their OL quickly.  Cant say im all that impressed with Caleb.  

 

Outside of literally a small handful of QB's, the rest of the leagaue is full of guys who need to have the right fit, to be good.  With Darnold, being on the Jets and Panthers with NO help from the OLine or WR corp, couldn't carry the team.  He's shown that in Minnesota and Seattle, that with that help, he can be a productive QB.  It's the same with Mayfield... give him an OLine, WR's and right system, he can be productive (note, this year he's not as good because the OLine and WR's are all hurt... not a surprise that the offense is struggling).  Daniel Jones is another example.  As is Geno Smith.

Fields was in Chicago, no help.  Goes to Pittsburgh, no help.  Goes the Jet... no help.  No QB is ever going to succeed in that enviornment if they're not one of the few special QB's.  Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, other examples of what happens when you give a guy help.

I don't think Bryce Young has a lot of help, but he has some.  Carolina has a pretty good Oline, inconsistancy at RB, and really only McMillan who's a rookie, as help on the outside.  I'm not so sure what Coker and Leggett are.  They may be NFL WR's, but probably backend.  I'm not that sold on Canales either.  I wasn't upset when he left Tampa.  He's "ok", but he'd not anything to brag about.  It's why Carolina is inconsistent on offense.  

Chicago has a very good OLine, good help on the outside, and a good backfield.  Williams is very inconsistant.  But, they're winning.  I'm not sure what to make of him yet.  I can tell you this much, I have Odunze in my keeper league and because of Williams, I'm keeping him.

[jrokh 618]

Which Qb's have been good with a bad o-line and no good Wr's?

[TBayXXXVII 2,679]

3 hours ago, jrokh said:

Which Qb's have been good with a bad o-line and no good Wr's?

There are a couple who have one, not the other, but still produce.  Mahomes went to 2 Super Bowls in the last 3 seasons with college caliber WR's.  Joe Burrow took a college level OLine team to a Super Bowl and AFCCG in consecutive years.  Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen don't really have anything special at WR (I think in both of their cases, they make their WR's better than what they are).  Justin Herbert has never had a good WR corp, just 1 good possession receiver, and never had a good OLine, but he gets them to the playoffs.  For the most part though, that is my point.  Offensive line is the most important unit on a team, not the QB.  The thing that tells you how good a QB is or isn't, is when they do have a good OLine and WR's (like Chicago), yet the QB is inconsistant and the offense struggles more than you'd expect.  You're a big QBR guy.  Caleb Williams is below average among his peers (ranks 19th).  That's not good.  He also has a sub 60% pass completion and a sub 90 passer rating.  Though, he's in Y2, so that's fine.  I'm just not sure what to make of him yet.  We'll see what happens next year.

Tua is another example of a QB like Williams, but we know more about him.  Miami's Oline was has been pretty good (not great though), prior to this year, and he's had a good run game and good WR's... yet, 1, he can't stay healthy and 2, he can't get them to the playoffs.  He and Kyler Murray.  Not saying they've had great talent, but they've had solid help, and I believe they both are 0-1 in the playoffs.  Jameis Winston was another one who had a good line and good receivers and never went to the playoffs.

[Ray_T 797]

On 12/16/2025 at 10:12 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Outside of literally a small handful of QB's, the rest of the leagaue is full of guys who need to have the right fit, to be good.  With Darnold, being on the Jets and Panthers with NO help from the OLine or WR corp, couldn't carry the team.  He's shown that in Minnesota and Seattle, that with that help, he can be a productive QB.  It's the same with Mayfield... give him an OLine, WR's and right system, he can be productive (note, this year he's not as good because the OLine and WR's are all hurt... not a surprise that the offense is struggling).  Daniel Jones is another example.  As is Geno Smith.

I would say that close to half of the viable starters in the NFL are viable because they play behind a good O line.

Andy Dalton was a good starter until the line went south.   and once that line became subpar, so did Daltons stats.

there are likely a lot of other examples and you and I have only touched on a few.     it is only the truly elite QB's who can still perform behind a subpar line.   and not many of those actually exist.