Hegseth Starts Proceedings Against Sen. Mark Kelly Over His Remarks

[Ron_Artest 2,688]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well then, he’s duty bound to report those illegal orders. Did he? 

Why don't you ask him.

 

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

You know this how?

I heard it on some interview he gave.  No I don't have the link.  You can either take my word for it or you can call me a liar.  I don't really care.

[Strike 6,115]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Why don't you ask him.

 

I heard it on some interview he gave.  No I don't have the link.  You can either take my word for it or you can call me a liar.  I don't really care.

So you have no personal knowledge.  You're basing it on the word of the person who made the video and has reason to lie about that.  

[Hardcore troubadour 16,178]

So he knew of illegal orders and did not report them, according to Gutterboy. Thats a court martial offense. Hegseth is right.  

[Ron_Artest 2,688]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

So you have no personal knowledge.  You're basing it on the word of the person who made the video and has reason to lie about that.  

Yes that is correct.  No one has ever told me they received an illegal order.  I was simply relaying what I heard Kelly say in an interview.

[Ron_Artest 2,688]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So he knew of illegal orders and did not report them, according to Gutterboy. Thats a court martial offense. Hegseth is right.  

Hegseth claims that Trump illegally ordered families to be killed.  Did he report them?  I guess Hegseth should be court marshalled too.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,178]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Hegseth claims that Trump illegally ordered families to be killed.  Did he report them?  I guess Hegseth should be court marshalled too.

He did? 

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

I’ll say this for Hegsy, he’s smarter than Bondi. This is like Goodell letting the team fine a player. Moving on.

[Strike 6,115]

4 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Yes that is correct.  No one has ever told me they received an illegal order.  I was simply relaying what I heard Kelly say in an interview.

So it's the equivalent of the media's "anonymous sources?"  

Here's the thing about that video.  If these people actually had service members approach them about this, here is how it should have been handled:

1)  Ask them specifically what illegal orders they had been given.  If the service member gave them that, they could have reported it as HT suggests.  Or told the media so they could report it.  But it would have to be on the record.  None of this anonymous bullsh*t we keep getting.  If those people didn't have specific orders but were just worried about "what if.....", tell them to get back to you when they are actually asked to do something illegal.

2)  If they did have enough actual evidence to warrant a video, the video should do more than just say "if you think you're being asked to do something illegal don't do it."  They should have been specific, with examples of what type of illegal actions they're talking about.  Use the orders the service member's gave them as examples.  Then give the service member's an actual course of action - who to report the illegal orders to, how to document it, etc.....Not just "don't do it."  That's just putting the service member in the line of fire for a court martial offense.

They made an extremely vague video without any documented evidence of wrongdoing or anything suggesting future wrongdoing, and basically gave cover for service members to defy direct orders.  

At best it was a poor decision to make that video.  At worst, it's seditious as is being alleged here.  I get that you libs have to follow your marching orders but some of this stuff really shows how loyal you are to the cause.

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

Wait, yall know Hegsy swerved away from the court martial right?

Kelly’s got a shot of redoing the Clinton red-blue state coalition. He’s probably co-front runner now. {Golf clap}.

[Strike 6,115]

3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Wait, yall know Hegsy swerved away from the court martial right?

Kelly’s got a shot of redoing the Clinton red-blue state coalition. He’s probably co-front runner now. {Golf clap}.

Sure, but he's going after his rank and his military pension.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hegseth-moves-censure-sen-mark-kelly-review-his-retirement-rank-pay-over-seditious-video

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Sure, but he's going after his rank and his military pension.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hegseth-moves-censure-sen-mark-kelly-review-his-retirement-rank-pay-over-seditious-video

{shrug} Kelly will fight it & he’s in the right, but point is it avoids the procedural burdens of a court martial & it’s pretty evident someone in JAG told SecDef he’d lose.

[Strike 6,115]

Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

{shrug} Kelly will fight it & hes in the right, but point is it avoids the procedural burdens of a court martial & it’s pretty evident someone in JAG told SecDef he’d lose.

Oh, you're telling us how it is again, huh?  Like when you told us the prosecution of the judge in Wisconsin who helped the illegal get away wouldn't go anywhere?

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

Just now, Strike said:

Oh, you're telling us how it is again, huh?  Like when you told us the prosecution of the judge in Wisconsin who helped the illegal get away wouldn't go anywhere?

Ok I’m all ears. Why do you think SOD Hegseth avoided the court martial? 

[Strike 6,115]

3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Ok I’m all ears. Why do you think SOD Hegseth avoided the court martial? 

I have no focking idea.  For one, I haven't followed this issue THAT closely.  Secondly, I'm not in those rooms.  Unlike you as a general rule of thumb I don't try to talk for other people.  You and Artest don't seem to follow that methodology, and that's fine, but you may get called out for doing so.  I work with facts and data.   

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

I have no focking idea.  For one, I haven't followed this issue THAT closely.  Secondly, I'm not in those rooms.  Unlike you as a general rule of thumb I don't try to talk for other people.  You and Artest don't seem to follow that methodology, and that's fine, but you may get called out for doing so.  I work with facts and data.   

Oh ok. We don’t know. We do know Hegsy threatened Kelly with court martial, which requires all manners of proof & argument. Like, Hegsy’s JAG team arguing that in fact soldiers must follow illegal orders, which they wouldn’t do because it contravenes the UCMJ. Hence Hegsy landed on a letter of censure which merely requests a board determination.

[dogcows 1,397]

Seems like Hegseth has more important things to worry about right now. I guess he doesn’t actually give a chit about running the “War” department. He should go back to Fox News with the rest of the clowns.

[supermike80 2,174]

17 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Seems like Hegseth has more important things to worry about right now. I guess he doesn’t actually give a chit about running the “War” department. He should go back to Fox News with the rest of the clowns.

Part of running the war department is military cohesion   And a former military man doing what he did is a serious threat to that cohesion.  So yeah, this is a very important thing for Hegseth to take on you dolt.  

[Maximum Overkill 2,707]

Kelly is a disgrace, an embarrassment 

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

>>

She told police that her recollection became fuzzy after the pool exchange, and that the next memory she had was in an unknown room. She said Hegseth took her phone and blocked the door with his body when she tried to leave. She told police she said “no” repeatedly. She said she was next on a bed or a couch and Hegseth was on top of her, with his dog tags hovering over her face. Hegseth, she said, ejaculated on her stomach. She said he then threw her a towel and asked if she was okay. She said she did not remember how she got back to her room that night.

Four days later, she went to the hospital.<<
Here

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

Kelly is a disgrace, an embarrassment 

Right, and he’s getting a letter, which goes in his file. There.

[dogcows 1,397]

5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Part of running the war department is military cohesion   And a former military man doing what he did is a serious threat to that cohesion.  So yeah, this is a very important thing for Hegseth to take on you dolt.  

Prosecuting former members of the military on trumped-up bogus charges doesn't inspire confidence in current members, believe me.

This is a political show, and there are ACTUAL issues happening now that he decided to drop bombs on Venezuela and kidnap their leader. The threat of retaliatory attacks is extremely high now and he wastes his time on this show for MAGA dolts.

[Maximum Overkill 2,707]

2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Right, and he’s getting a letter, which goes in his file. There.

A dishonorable discharge 

[supermike80 2,174]

2 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Prosecuting former members of the military on trumped-up bogus charges doesn't inspire confidence in current members, believe me.

This is a political show, and there are ACTUAL issues happening now that he decided to drop bombs on Venezuela and kidnap their leader. The threat of retaliatory attacks is extremely high now and he wastes his time on this show for MAGA dolts.

Yeah.    I guess I take it more seriously than you do.  And that's OK.   We can agree to disagree

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

4 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

A dishonorable discharge 

How without a court martial?

[dogcows 1,397]

Just now, supermike80 said:

Yeah.    I guess I take it more seriously than you do.  And that's OK.   We can agree to disagree

There was no law broken. Kelly has 30 days to respond, and even if he gets the world's worst lawyer, it will be extremely easy for him to win against these bogus charges.

I wish our SECDEF actually gave a chit about his job instead of this nonsense.

But it's all good. It will be yet another embarrassment for this incompetent administration. I guess they enjoy losing.

[supermike80 2,174]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

There was no law broken. Kelly has 30 days to respond, and even if he gets the world's worst lawyer, it will be extremely easy for him to win against these bogus charges.

I wish our SECDEF actually gave a chit about his job instead of this nonsense.

But it's all good. It will be yet another embarrassment for this incompetent administration. I guess they enjoy losing.

If he had broken the law, he would be facing criminal charges. So yes, I agree no laws were broken.   I think the SECDEF can handle more than one thing at a time though.   Do you think the only single thing he is doing is this and absolutely nothing else?   That's kind of a weird take.

[dogcows 1,397]

From Mark Kelly:

Quote

Kelly, in a statement on X, vowed to fight the disciplinary action “with everything I’ve got,” and called Hegseth “the most unqualified Secretary of Defense in our country’s history.”

“Over twenty-five years in the U.S. Navy, thirty-nine combat missions, and four missions to space, I risked my life for this country and to defend our Constitution – including the First Amendment rights of every American to speak out,” Kelly wrote. “I never expected that the President of the United States and the Secretary of Defense would attack me for doing exactly that.”

“My rank and retirement are things that I earned through my service and sacrifice for this country. I got shot at. I missed holidays and birthdays. I commanded a space shuttle mission while my wife Gabby recovered from a gunshot wound to the head– all while proudly wearing the American flag on my shoulder,” Kelly wrote. “Generations of servicemembers have made these same patriotic sacrifices for this country, earning the respect, appreciation, and rank they deserve.

“Pete Hegseth wants to send the message to every single retired servicemember that if they say something he or Donald Trump doesn’t like, they will come after them the same way,” the senator said. “It’s outrageous and it is wrong. There is nothing more un-American than that.”

 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,178]

12 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Prosecuting former members of the military on trumped-up bogus charges doesn't inspire confidence in current members, believe me.

This is a political show, and there are ACTUAL issues happening now that he decided to drop bombs on Venezuela and kidnap their leader. The threat of retaliatory attacks is extremely high now and he wastes his time on this show for MAGA dolts.

How about prosecuting former presidents and those around him on Trumped up charges? Does that bother you? 

[supermike80 2,174]

Just now, dogcows said:

From Mark Kelly:

 

See now....There is nothing wrong at all with this statement.    He should have just made statements that he didn't agree with some things he is seeing from this administration.  Instead he made a stupid TDS infused video and now he's gonna have to deal with that.   FAFO

[dogcows 1,397]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

See now....There is nothing wrong at all with this statement.    He should have just made statements that he didn't agree with some things he is seeing from this administration.  Instead he made a stupid TDS infused video and now he's gonna have to deal with that.   FAFO

He has freedom of speech. I guess MAGA doesn't respect the first amendment anymore. No respect for the 1st amendment; no respect for 27 years of military service.

They worship a draft dodger, so it's not surprising that they would throw a decorated Naval officer under the bus for simply speaking his mind after retiring from the military.

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

2 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Over twenty-five years in the U.S. Navy, thirty-nine combat missions, and four missions to space

Hegsy: 42 keg stands, a rape accusation, a divorce in which he told his brother in law he was (his words) “f’d up”, & 32 tattoos. There! 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,178]

Clinton, Bush, Trump, Biden. All draft dodgers. It’s like Dogcows was born yesterday. 

[supermike80 2,174]

5 minutes ago, dogcows said:

He has freedom of speech. I guess MAGA doesn't respect the first amendment anymore. No respect for the 1st amendment; no respect for 27 years of military service.

They worship a draft dodger, so it's not surprising that they would throw a decorated Naval officer under the bus for simply speaking his mind after retiring from the military.

I think you are missing the point.  No, you really are missing the point.

[Maximum Overkill 2,707]

29 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

How without a court martial?

He's going to catch a treason charge here in a few. 

[dogcows 1,397]

18 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I think you are missing the point.  No, you really are missing the point.

What is the point? Members of the military forever don't have freedom of speech after they retire?

[Tree of Knowledge 2,297]

Hegseth just oversaw one of the cleanest and most impressive military operations in US history.  So much for qualifications.  

[supermike80 2,174]

9 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

Hegseth just oversaw one of the cleanest and most impressive military operations in US history.  So much for qualifications.  

Surprised he could do that since he can only seem to focus on demoting Kelly.  

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

>>>

In 2016, as then-presidential candidate Donald Trump vowed that US troops would carry out even his most extreme battlefield orders as commander in chief — some of which former military leaders said would be illegal — Pete Hegseth warned that service members had a duty to refuse unlawful orders from a potential President Trump.

“You’re not just gonna follow that order if it’s unlawful,” Hegseth said in a March 2016 appearance on “Fox & Friends,” referring to veterans he spoke with.

“The military’s not gonna follow illegal orders,” Hegseth said of Trump in another March appearance on Fox Business.

A Fox News contributor at the time, Hegseth echoed similar sentiments during a speaking appearance a month later, saying the US military “won’t follow unlawful orders from their commander in chief,” in previously unreported comments unearthed exclusively by CNN’s KFile.<<

CNN

[supermike80 2,174]

2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

>>>

In 2016, as then-presidential candidate Donald Trump vowed that US troops would carry out even his most extreme battlefield orders as commander in chief — some of which former military leaders said would be illegal — Pete Hegseth warned that service members had a duty to refuse unlawful orders from a potential President Trump.

“You’re not just gonna follow that order if it’s unlawful,” Hegseth said in a March 2016 appearance on “Fox & Friends,” referring to veterans he spoke with.

“The military’s not gonna follow illegal orders,” Hegseth said of Trump in another March appearance on Fox Business.

A Fox News contributor at the time, Hegseth echoed similar sentiments during a speaking appearance a month later, saying the US military “won’t follow unlawful orders from their commander in chief,” in previously unreported comments unearthed exclusively by CNN’s KFile.<<

CNN

For focks sake...Already discussed this.  It's NOT THE SAME THING as the video those TDSers posted.  It's context and it was a bad idea.   jesus.

[SaintsInDome2006 866]

3 hours ago, supermike80 said:

For clarity.....cause you guys are dumb as sheet sometimes.

Here is Kelly's quote:

"this administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens"

Not even CLOSE to what Hegseth said.   Context matters.  This video should have never been made and it bothers me quite a bit that it ever was.  And it is 100% due to TDS.    This was a bullsh!t video.

 

https://x.com/SenatorSlotkin/status/1990774492356902948

 

Watch this focking video and tell me that is the same

Thanks for pointing this out.

So what illegal scenario do you think Hegseth was referring to in 2016?