NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Maybe I have no clue what I am talking about...but team 1 traded A.D. and Housh for P.Rivers and R.White. Team 1 now starts Ronnie Brown and M.J.D. at rb and Rivers instead of Eli. obviously team 2 is loaded. I think this is a brutally 1 sided trade in team 2 favor, am I wrong for that thinking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 31, 2008 Maybe I have no clue what I am talking about...but team 1 traded A.D. and Housh for P.Rivers and R.White. Team 1 now starts Ronnie Brown and M.J.D. at rb and Rivers instead of Eli. obviously team 2 is loaded. I think this is a brutally 1 sided trade in team 2 favor, am I wrong for that thinking? Yes, you have a good Commissioner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Maybe I have no clue what I am talking about... You should have ended it there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted October 31, 2008 You should have ended it there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wild_and_crazy_guy 5 Posted October 31, 2008 This smells of collusion. One team calls itself Team 1, and the other team just happens to call it itself Team 2? Your league should have picked up on that long before this trade. Veto it!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 WOW, I didnt realize there were so many clever people who have nothing better to do. Sorry for asking an honest question and hoping for a intelligent answer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enis_44 0 Posted October 31, 2008 WOW, I didnt realize there were so many clever people who have nothing better to do. Sorry for asking an honest question and hoping for a intelligent answer. Ask an intelligent question, and you'll get better answers. Get a clue! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stopper 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Based on the very limited information you've provided, I see nothing wrong with this trade. What do you think is wrong with it? Did team one need a QB and a WR more than they needed AD? Is team 2 loaded at WR and needed a RB? From the limited information you've provided, it appears both teams may have improved by this deal. The most likely reason you've received so much snark in response to your post is that more and more people are obliged to let owners manage their teams and do what they want with their players. They're against vetos. They're against commissioner reviews of trades. They don't really care what you do with your team (unless collusion can be undeniably proven). The bottom line is: Why do you care so much about what two other owners did with their teams? Did this trade make one of your division rivals stronger, or are you just miffed that you missed out on the opportunity to pull off a trade yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirwinzalot 1 Posted October 31, 2008 Looks fine to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GridironGuzzlers 3 Posted October 31, 2008 OMG Someone pulled off a trade that helps their team!! Veto it!! Trades should not help your team! Only allow trades that hurt both teams. Also, only your opinion matters, not the guys actually trading Another moronic trade post. Why are some of you even in a fantasy football league?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 I thought I was pretty clear... TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB-ELI.........................QB-PEYTON RB-A.D. .......................RB-GORE RB-MJD ..................... RB-TURNER WR-HOUSH .................. WR-RODDY WHTE WR-WARD ...................WR-WAYNE WR-CHAMBERS/AVERY . WR-BOWE TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE /TEAM 2 AFTER TRADE QB-RIVERS ...................... QB-PEYTON RB-RONNIE BROWN............RB-A.D. RB-MJD .............................RB-GORE WR-RODDY WHITE..............RB-TURNER WR-WARD ......................WR-WAYNE WR-CHAMBES/AVERY..........WR-BOWE Now for all you dumbass's team 1 is the Buccanners and team 2 are the Knights and if you think the Buccaneers are better you are flat out f*ckin idiots. This is a onesided trade, Eli is not that much worse than Rivers and now his rb's are flat out garbage. So now if this isnt clear enough for you dumbass's ....GFY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted October 31, 2008 I thought I was pretty clear...TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB-ELI......................... QB-PEYTON RB-A.D. ......................... RB-GORE RB-MJD ................................. RB-TURNER WR-HOUSH ....................... WR-RODDY WHTE WR-WARD .................... WR-WAYNE WR-CHAMBERS/AVERY .............. WR-BOWE TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE AFTER TRADE QB-RIVERS ...................... QB-PEYTON RB-RONNIE BROWN................... RB-A.D. RB-MJD ................... RB-GORE WR-RODDY WHITE..................... RB-TURNER WR-WARD ............................. WR-WAYNE WR-CHAMBES/AVERY..................... WR-BOWE Now for all you dumbass's team 1 is the Buccanners and team 2 are the Knights and if you think the Buccaneers are better you are flat out f*ckin idiots. This is a onesided trade, Eli is not that much worse than Rivers and now his rb's are flat out garbage. So now if this isnt clear enough for you dumbass's ....GFY Yep, that's the douche we've tolerated on these forums for years...glad to see your life still sucks and you're still an arse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Thanks for your input 16 and 33...really helpful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Thanks for your input 16 and 33...really helpful. The lineups are irrelevant. The only question you ever need to ask is are they cheating or even potentially colluding? The answer is an emphatic NO. So stop whining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 First of all yostevo, How do you know they are not cheating? Much less throwing out a "emphatic" no. 2nd of all, If asking the public opinion on a trade is whining than I guess I'm whining. I just honestly think that the Buccaneers got much worse, but apparently I am in the minority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zefram0911 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Does it matter if they got much worse? Who cares? No collusion, no veto. I'm a commish also and that's the only case I would veto also. Maybe we need to call the waaaaaabulance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted October 31, 2008 First of all yostevo, How do you know they are not cheating? Much less throwing out a "emphatic" no. 2nd of all, If asking the public opinion on a trade is whining than I guess I'm whining. I just honestly think that the Buccaneers got much worse, but apparently I am in the minority. You weren't whining by asking, you began to whine when you weren't hearing the responses you were looking for, which was apparently agreeing with your sentiments. Listen man, I'm just busting your chops because I think you are missing the point and that's why people are being sarcastic with you. Trades should only be subject to negation when there is a clear and present attempt to cheat. If AD was being traded for a kicker, that might be enough to warrant a look see because there would be absolutely no logical reason for it if other kickers were available. The guys involved had their reasoning to make the trade. Everyone has varying opinions on players which means your opinion is not law and carries no more merit than anyone elses. It's not your place to play judge and jury on 99.9% of the trades that occur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Yostevo, do you think that its a good trade? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Just so I understand, you believe the following: I think this is a brutally 1 sided trade in team 2 favor, am I wrong for that thinking? Now for all you dumbass's team 1 is the Buccanners and team 2 are the Knights and if you think the Buccaneers are better you are flat out f*ckin idiots. This is a onesided trade, Eli is not that much worse than Rivers and now his rb's are flat out garbage. So now if this isnt clear enough for you dumbass's ....GFY The evidence from the first half of the season: non-PPR averages, 10 yards = 1 pt, TDs = 6 pts, passing TDs = 4 pts TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB- 13.78 ..................... QB- 13.88 RB- 14.10 ...................... RB- 15.35 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 14.92 WR- 8.91 ..................... WR- 13.93 WR- 10.00 ...................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 68.02 .......................... 78.23 TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE /TEAM 2 AFTER TRADE QB- 18.29 ...................... QB-13.88 RB- 13.92 ...................... RB-14.10 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 15.35 WR- 13.93 ..................... RB- 14.92 WR- 10.00 ..................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 77.37 .......................... 78.60 However...even though this refutes your arguments about who wins, the real point is trades should be vetoed for collusion and collusion only. Trades that improve teams are the whole point of making a deal. /thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dashow28 6 Posted October 31, 2008 Now for all you dumbass's team 1 is the Buccanners and team 2 are the Knights and if you think the Buccaneers are better you are flat out f*ckin idiots. This is a onesided trade, Eli is not that much worse than Rivers and now his rb's are flat out garbage. So now if this isnt clear enough for you dumbass's ....GFY Why should anybody help you with comments like these? By the way, it might be somewhat one sided, but not vetoable. Take that from a dumbass. #28 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Yostevo, do you think that its a good trade? If I were the the Rivers/White owner, I wouldn't have dealt for Housh/AD at this point. However, AD could go bonkers at any moment and Housh is in a contract year. That's probably what they are thinking and it's clear they have their reasonings. What is your definition of "good"? Do both sides have to win in a trade in order for it to be "good"? Absolutely not. FF is 90% luck and the other 10% is the skill of the draft,FA acquisitions and yes taking people in trades. Lemme give you an example of perceived value. T.O. opened the season like gangbusters and carried with him all of this "perceived" value and you probably could have fetched all kinds of offers for him. The problem is, here we are 5 weeks later and players like Kevin Walters are a safer start right now. See what I mean? You don't really know so let it go man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,042 Posted November 1, 2008 This smells of collusion. One team calls itself Team 1, and the other team just happens to call it itself Team 2? Your league should have picked up on that long before this trade. Veto it!! lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 Just so I understand, you believe the following:The evidence from the first half of the season: non-PPR averages, 10 yards = 1 pt, TDs = 6 pts, passing TDs = 4 pts TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB- 13.78 ..................... QB- 13.88 RB- 14.10 ...................... RB- 15.35 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 14.92 WR- 8.91 ..................... WR- 13.93 WR- 10.00 ...................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 68.02 .......................... 78.23 TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE /TEAM 2 AFTER TRADE QB- 18.29 ...................... QB-13.88 RB- 13.92 ...................... RB-14.10 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 15.35 WR- 13.93 ..................... RB- 14.92 WR- 10.00 ..................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 77.37 .......................... 78.60 However...even though this refutes your arguments about who wins, the real point is trades should be vetoed for collusion and collusion only. Trades that improve teams are the whole point of making a deal. /thread It is a ppr league 16 and 33 and you're right, buccaneers are getting more points, on this basis then J.T. O'Sullivan has scored almost as much as Tomlinson. So that would be a good trade right? Lets take this a step further...Lets just eliminate ff drafts all together. Just draw a draft order and then go off of last years point scorers. No more of this projection crap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted November 1, 2008 It is a ppr league 16 and 33 PPR averages, 1 rec = 1 pt, 10 yards = 1 pt, TDs = 6 pts, 25 yards passing = 1 pt, passing TDs = 4 pts TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB- 13.78 ..................... QB- 13.88 RB- 15.81 ...................... RB- 15.35 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 14.92 WR- 15.66 ..................... WR- 20.07 WR- 10.00 ...................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 76.48 .......................... 84.37 TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE /TEAM 2 AFTER TRADE QB- 18.29 ...................... QB-13.88 RB- 13.92 ...................... RB-15.81 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 15.35 WR- 20.07 ..................... RB- 14.92 WR- 10.00 ..................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 83.51 .......................... 80.11 ...and you're right, buccaneers are getting more points, on this basis then J.T. O'Sullivan has scored almost as much as Tomlinson. So that would be a good trade right? Lets take this a step further...Lets just eliminate ff drafts all together. Just draw a draft order and then go off of last years point scorers. No more of this projection crap. Halfway through the season, when we have 8 weeks of performance data, the buccaneers are banking that Roddy White is the real deal, ADP is a mild disappointment, therefore not much dropoff to moving Ronnie Brown into the lineup. He also believes Rivers will continue to perfom like a top 5 QB, a significant upgrade over Eli based on how they scored in the first half. The Knights believe ADP will perform more like the consensus #2 pick in the draft. Housh is getting a ton of looks, so if Fitz can get him TDs so much the better, but for now he's just a great backup to have around. Both sides have valid reasons for making the trade. What's your reasons for not liking it (besides envy and jealousy)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 It makes 1 team much stronger { knights } and 1 team weaker {Bucs }. Knights are in my division, You guys can slice it anyway you want, but I will go on record and say that A.D. and Housh will outscore Roddy and Phil by 100 points the rest of the year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted November 1, 2008 It makes 1 team much stronger { knights } and 1 team weaker {Bucs }. Knights are in my division, You guys can slice it anyway you want, but I will go on record and say that A.D. and Housh will outscore Roddy and Phil by 100 points the rest of the year. Thank you for the honest response. The issue for you, then, is not that the trade is unfair, but that you are envious and jealous because you think the Knights are stronger. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't - that's the fun part of FF, making moves that carry risk/reward. I'm going to bookmark this one and we'll see how your prediction works out. Your job is to manage your team, not babysit other owners or train them to value players in exactly the way you do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyeaser 3 Posted November 1, 2008 so nate with your last comments saying that (team 1) knights are in your division and the said trade has made them stronger, is the REAL purpose of this thread.......so more or less if the KNIGHTS got the shorter end of the stick and i guess you might have to fight them for a playoff spot or another h2h game this year, and they were made what YOU would think is a weaker roster would this trade then be fair? doesnt matter what you think as long as the KNIGHTS owner and the BUCS owner are not in collusion, maybe 1 owner liked a better playoff match up, redgardless why would you care what 2 other owners do with thier teams unless you had a terrible draft and are kinda scared of NOT making the playoffs.... and it kinda sounded like a whine when you say thier in my division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 cyeasrer, No that is not the case. In my opinion that is where integrity comes into play, I would feel this way no matter what. There is a guy in the other division, {who happens to be a good friend of mine} that did vote in favor for that reason alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill E. 666 Posted November 1, 2008 This was a great post. If this does not convince someone that both team benefit nothing will. Your one problem was trying to introduce factual evidence into an emotional arguement. I try this with my wife all the time and it never works. He just wants people to listen and nod their heads and say you are right, poor you. Just so I understand, you believe the following:The evidence from the first half of the season: non-PPR averages, 10 yards = 1 pt, TDs = 6 pts, passing TDs = 4 pts TEAM 1'S LINEUP BEFORE TRADE/TEAM 2 BEFORE QB- 13.78 ..................... QB- 13.88 RB- 14.10 ...................... RB- 15.35 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 14.92 WR- 8.91 ..................... WR- 13.93 WR- 10.00 ...................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 68.02 .......................... 78.23 TEAM 1 AFTER TRADE /TEAM 2 AFTER TRADE QB- 18.29 ...................... QB-13.88 RB- 13.92 ...................... RB-14.10 RB- 11.81 ...................... RB- 15.35 WR- 13.93 ..................... RB- 14.92 WR- 10.00 ..................... WR- 11.04 WR- 9.42 ...................... WR- 9.11 total 77.37 .......................... 78.60 However...even though this refutes your arguments about who wins, the real point is trades should be vetoed for collusion and collusion only. Trades that improve teams are the whole point of making a deal. /thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 OK Bill, You're saying the Bucs are better now? All I am trying to get is a honest perception of this trade. Based off what people have said they think its ok. So should I just totally change my feelings on the trade? NO WAY, Its what I think and I have presented some very good arguments in my favor, now we just have to wait and see who is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swirvenirvin 25 Posted November 1, 2008 OK Bill, You're saying the Bucs are better now? All I am trying to get is a honest perception of this trade. Based off what people have said they think its ok. So should I just totally change my feelings on the trade? NO WAY, Its what I think and I have presented some very good arguments in my favor, now we just have to wait and see who is right. You're wrong because you don't have a say in how other people manage their teams. Unless of course your paid for their entry fee, if you did then have fun playing with yourself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 Hey dumbass, What am I wrong about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Brad 0 Posted November 1, 2008 OK Bill, You're saying the Bucs are better now? All I am trying to get is a honest perception of this trade. Based off what people have said they think its ok. So should I just totally change my feelings on the trade? NO WAY, Its what I think and I have presented some very good arguments in my favor, now we just have to wait and see who is right. Somebody might just be in need of a life... Oh wait maybe it's me, cause it's Friday night, my wife is sitting over there 1/2 naked, and I am reading this worthless pos thread instead... MB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 I'm sorry you're a hopeless piece of sh*t, odds are your ol lady is praying you keep reading this for another couple of hours.Unless you have something meaningfull to add dont f*ckin post here again. GOT IT?!!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Brad 0 Posted November 1, 2008 I'm sorry you're a hopeless piece of sh*t, odds are your ol lady is praying you keep reading this for another couple of hours.Unless you have something meaningfull to add dont f*ckin post here again. GOT IT?!!? Man the peeps are right... YOU really ARE A dipschiot DUMB@$$... ps. Oh wait the guy that needs a life is you, as you sit by your crap @$$ lame "evaluate this trade" post, replying exactly 2 whole minutes after my post.... Dude if I was you I'd try match dot com... Cause you need it... Badly... MB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16 and 33 0 Posted November 1, 2008 I'm sorry you're a hopeless piece of sh*t, odds are your ol lady is praying you keep reading this for another couple of hours.Unless you have something meaningfull to add dont f*ckin post here again. GOT IT?!!? Couple useful things about this thread. One, it illustrates why trade veto by other owners is a dumb idea. Why do people want to veto a trade? Because they are mad they didn't make a deal that good to make their team better. Why should a trade be vetoed? For collusion only. Two, it illustrates how owners value players differently. Some get hung up on preseason projections/rankings and ADP, while others discount expectations and look at results, and some disregard both to some degree and look only at opportunity and SOS in trying to build a stretch run team. Whatever, that is the beauty of trading, taking risky chances in the hope of a reward. Three, tigers don't change their stripes, and once a tool always a tool. I started out my contribution to this thread with sarcasm and calling NateBurleson81 a douche. I have good reason to - every phocking year this punk comes in here, starts shiat with people, trashes folks who disagree with him, goes into ballistic mode as he gets more worked up, then disappears. The absolute worst kind of FFT member. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateBurleson81 0 Posted November 1, 2008 Come on 16, Its not like that. I think its funny that I start a post asking a simple ?, I get pissed because a bunch of idiots take time and give sarcastic answers. I thought you and me had a reasonable debate. So I am a tool,douche and a punk because I fire back when fired upon? What does that make the worthless f*cks who waste the time to throw out useless smartass posts? Hey I stand for what I think is right. I dont back down in life andI wont back down on some dumbass ff board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted November 1, 2008 Come on 16, Its not like that. I think its funny that I start a post asking a simple ?, I get pissed because a bunch of idiots take time and give sarcastic answers. I thought you and me had a reasonable debate. So I am a tool,douche and a punk because I fire back when fired upon? What does that make the worthless f*cks who waste the time to throw out useless smartass posts? Hey I stand for what I think is right. I dont back down in life andI wont back down on some dumbass ff board. If they are "worthless f*cks" - then why do you come to them for commissioner help??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
