Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell w/o Bush.

[ggroovy17 0]

I think if Reggie Bush is out, Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell should get a significant amount of work. I have both and am starting both because the Bucs are horrible and I could see the Saints getting up big on them. If that is the case, Bell will be the "closer" for the end of the game. I could see the Saints running the ball 35 times.

[KSB2424 3,086]

You may be right. While PT has looked good the past couple week, Mike Bell (if you seen him play) is a damn good RB. Not sure if it's a product of the system but he runs hard, has good cuts, and is a badass. If Bush is out and is not on the field at all I see Bell getting at least 6 or 7 more carries on top of the 7 or 8 he's been already getting.

 

Bell might not be a bad start this week. I'm thinking about it (over Moreno/Charles/Snelling) at a flex spot.

[ggroovy17 0]

Glad I played this strategy, I would of been pulling my hair out if I watched Mike Bell steal PT's TD's. Riding these two the rest of the way........lost Ronnie Brown last week, the best options I have.

[HawkLatino 0]

I've been keeping Mike Bell on my roster for two reasons:

 

1. If PT or Bush go down - I'm gold!

2. The Saints will wrap up this division and home field advantage early from what I can tell and I would assume the Saints are going to rest Bush and possibly PT during weeks 15, 16, and 17, which should make Mike Bell well worth stashing. Now all I have to do is get to the playoffs in our FF League!..lol

[R8RMick 242]

I've been keeping Mike Bell on my roster for two reasons:

 

1. If PT or Bush go down - I'm gold!

2. The Saints will wrap up this division and home field advantage early from what I can tell and I would assume the Saints are going to rest Bush and possibly PT during weeks 15, 16, and 17, which should make Mike Bell well worth stashing. Now all I have to do is get to the playoffs in our FF League!..lol

 

 

Respectfully, why should Payton rest Pierre Thomas??? He doesn't need it. Christ, the guy hasn't had more than 15-20 carries in any game, has he? What are you going to save him for, next season? I'll admit it, of course I'm a Thomas owner. But at the beginning of the year I didn't see Payton playing these games with his RB's. Granted Bush is there, but it goes far beyond that with Bell and even this fourth string guy.

 

I'm old school, one of those who feel a running back gets better in the game as it progresses, and that they need a certain amount of carries to really get in the flow and start punishing a defense. You've got to condition a guy both mentally and physically to start taking that load. This crap about saving a guy so he doesn't get hurt is exactly that, crap. An RB can get hurt on his first carry just as easily as his twentieth. Now I'm not talking 30 carries a game now.

 

They may be near the top of the NFL in rushing, but when the playoffs come and you face top tier run defenses you better have a running game that is clicking and has consistency. These guys coming in for a carry here and a carry there ain't gonna cut it. Yeah, I'm pissed because Mike Bell is a plumber, and if he was given any sort of weekly workload he'd break down. Just like he did in Denver and throughout his career. He's got a ladle and a biscuit and he's sopping up a helluva lot of gravy off that train. And people are saying he's a star because of it. Amazing.

[The Next Generation 10]

Respectfully, why should Payton rest Pierre Thomas??? He doesn't need it. Christ, the guy hasn't had more than 15-20 carries in any game, has he? What are you going to save him for, next season? I'll admit it, of course I'm a Thomas owner. But at the beginning of the year I didn't see Payton playing these games with his RB's. Granted Bush is there, but it goes far beyond that with Bell and even this fourth string guy.

 

I'm old school, one of those who feel a running back gets better in the game as it progresses, and that they need a certain amount of carries to really get in the flow and start punishing a defense. You've got to condition a guy both mentally and physically to start taking that load. This crap about saving a guy so he doesn't get hurt is exactly that, crap. An RB can get hurt on his first carry just as easily as his twentieth. Now I'm not talking 30 carries a game now.

 

They may be near the top of the NFL in rushing, but when the playoffs come and you face top tier run defenses you better have a running game that is clicking and has consistency. These guys coming in for a carry here and a carry there ain't gonna cut it. Yeah, I'm pissed because Mike Bell is a plumber, and if he was given any sort of weekly workload he'd break down. Just like he did in Denver and throughout his career. He's got a ladle and a biscuit and he's sopping up a helluva lot of gravy off that train. And people are saying he's a star because of it. Amazing.

 

Exactly. Payton's been resting PT all season long. Why does Payton hate frenchy?

[Geddy11 4]

Exactly. Payton's been resting PT all season long. Why does Payton hate frenchy?

 

 

I cannot figure out why Payton will not give PT the majority of the carries 15-22-25 carries and spell him with Bell and Bush. He's clearly the better runner. I dont get it

[Geddy11 4]

Exactly. Payton's been resting PT all season long. Why does Payton hate frenchy?

 

 

I cannot figure out why Payton will not give PT the majority of the carries 15-22-25 carries and spell him with Bell and Bush. He's clearly the better runner. I dont get it

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

I totally agree ... this coach has absolutely no clue.

[XRage 0]

I cannot figure out why Payton will not give PT the majority of the carries 15-22-25 carries and spell him with Bell and Bush. He's clearly the better runner. I dont get it

Maybe because he doesn't need to. The Saints are undefeated with the #5 rushing offense in the NFL. Why change things when what they are doing now is working so well? Having three different guys that can tote the rock gives defenses something extra to prepare for instead of being able to concentrate on stopping one guy. It is a huge advantage. Sure it sucks for the fantasy owners but its hard to argue with the results. If their running game was struggling and they were losing games because of it then you'd have a point.

[Saints1 4]

Since it seems it always comes up I do own pierre and yes it's killing my fantasy team but all you have to do is look back to the last couple of seasons to games in which Pierre gets the majority of snaps and he's been a stud. Overall he is by far the most complete back between Bush (obviously better classic handoff back) and Bell (elusive, faster and can catch). But the team is winning and week to week for fantasy purposes who knows who will be the better start. I am enjoying my season tickets this year. Not often the Saints do better than your fantasy team.

[Ramrock 13]

Why do I get the feeling you won't see alot of running on monday

[Kaptain02 0]

I understand what they are doing because the running game is working out so well this year.

 

But, from a non-fantasy standpoint it's got to piss P. Thomas off when he does a majority of the work to get to the goal line and then they give it to Bell 3 straight times for the TD...

 

Oh well... can't afford to start him anymore so I don't care.

[R8RMick 242]

Maybe because he doesn't need to. The Saints are undefeated with the #5 rushing offense in the NFL. Why change things when what they are doing now is working so well? Having three different guys that can tote the rock gives defenses something extra to prepare for instead of being able to concentrate on stopping one guy. It is a huge advantage. Sure it sucks for the fantasy owners but its hard to argue with the results. If their running game was struggling and they were losing games because of it then you'd have a point.

 

 

See Post #5 above.

 

Look, if Saints fans are satisfied with going 13-3 or 14-2 and getting bounced in the playoffs by a more physical team that smashes you in the teeth, so be it. They've beaten the field so far, sure, but the playoffs are a different animal. Now, it'll help that they'll wrap up the home field and won't have to play outside in the weather. But mark this, you won't establish the sort of running game you need to win in the playoffs by rotating three guys in and out. Again, I'm old school and I believe in the old adage that a RB needs 15-20 carries to get in the flow of a game and start dishing out some punishment.

 

And one more thing.This getting pulled at the goal line crap is killing Pierre Thomas' value, and not just in fantasy. When it comes time to negotiate a new deal those TD's are not going to be there on the table. It'd be different if he was Dave Meggett, or if Bell the Plumber was Mike Alstott, but Thomas is no slouch in short yardage sitautions.

 

Payton doesn't want to jerk with something that is working now, but when they face Minnesota, Dallas, or even the Giants down the road in the playoffs they're going to need a consistent running game. Just my opinion here. That and $10 will buy you a beer in Manhattan.

[HawkLatino 0]

See Post #5 above.

 

Look, if Saints fans are satisfied with going 13-3 or 14-2 and getting bounced in the playoffs by a more physical team that smashes you in the teeth, so be it. They've beaten the field so far, sure, but the playoffs are a different animal. Now, it'll help that they'll wrap up the home field and won't have to play outside in the weather. But mark this, you won't establish the sort of running game you need to win in the playoffs by rotating three guys in and out. Again, I'm old school and I believe in the old adage that a RB needs 15-20 carries to get in the flow of a game and start dishing out some punishment.

 

And one more thing.This getting pulled at the goal line crap is killing Pierre Thomas' value, and not just in fantasy. When it comes time to negotiate a new deal those TD's are not going to be there on the table. It'd be different if he was Dave Meggett, or if Bell the Plumber was Mike Alstott, but Thomas is no slouch in short yardage sitautions.

 

Payton doesn't want to jerk with something that is working now, but when they face Minnesota, Dallas, or even the Giants down the road in the playoffs they're going to need a consistent running game. Just my opinion here. That and $10 will buy you a beer in Manhattan.

 

I agree with you on your earlier statement and this statement as well. As you know I don't have PT, but I do have Bell on my fantasy team and from a pure football standpoint, Payton needs to give one of these backs most of the touches when it comes to playoffs because this like you, I don't think this switching of backs will work when everything is on the line in the playoffs.

[We Tigers 71]

What? Why would it be any different? If he gets a hot hand, I'm sure he'll roll with it, but these guys haven't had trouble running well in rotation all year. Teams give it their all in the playoffs, yeah, but the game doesn't change that drastically. It's all still football.

[R8RMick 242]

What? Why would it be any different? If he gets a hot hand, I'm sure he'll roll with it, but these guys haven't had trouble running well in rotation all year. Teams give it their all in the playoffs, yeah, but the game doesn't change that drastically. It's all still football.

 

 

Why would it be any different? The game doesn't change 'drastically'? Buddy, if you think the Saints are going to face in the playoffs the San Fernando fluff they've seen so far this season you are dreaming. Dreaming.

 

Wk Opp Def Rush rank

1 vs Lions 22

2 at Eagles 15

3 at Bills 18

4 vs Jets 13

5 Bye

6 vs Giants 18

7 at Dolphins 4

8 vs Falcons 23

9 vs Panthers 22

10 at Rams 27

11 at Buccaneers 32

[WhiteWonder 2,200]

its true, they havn't faced a playoff quality team yet.

 

Eagles and Giants are the closest things and they are fighting for NFC wildcard spots.

[XRage 0]

See Post #5 above.

 

Look, if Saints fans are satisfied with going 13-3 or 14-2 and getting bounced in the playoffs by a more physical team that smashes you in the teeth, so be it. They've beaten the field so far, sure, but the playoffs are a different animal. Now, it'll help that they'll wrap up the home field and won't have to play outside in the weather. But mark this, you won't establish the sort of running game you need to win in the playoffs by rotating three guys in and out. Again, I'm old school and I believe in the old adage that a RB needs 15-20 carries to get in the flow of a game and start dishing out some punishment.

 

And one more thing.This getting pulled at the goal line crap is killing Pierre Thomas' value, and not just in fantasy. When it comes time to negotiate a new deal those TD's are not going to be there on the table. It'd be different if he was Dave Meggett, or if Bell the Plumber was Mike Alstott, but Thomas is no slouch in short yardage sitautions.

 

Payton doesn't want to jerk with something that is working now, but when they face Minnesota, Dallas, or even the Giants down the road in the playoffs they're going to need a consistent running game. Just my opinion here. That and $10 will buy you a beer in Manhattan.

That's purely theoretical, and even if it were true they don't necessarily need to establish a feature back right now with the playoffs still 6 weeks away.

 

Just to play devil's advocate though I'll cite the Superbowl from a few years back between the Colts and Bears. That year the Colts had a timeshare at RB between Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai with neither of them being a true feature back. And what did they do? They gashed that "physical Bears defense that smashes you in the teeth" for almost 200 yards rushing.

 

And seriously, who cares about Pierre Thomas' value as a free agent next year? Do you honestly think Sean Payton cares about what kind of deal Pierre Thomas gets next year in free agency? Clearly you are a sour grapes PT owner who just needs to suck it up and get over it.

[NAn 39]

See Post #5 above.

 

Look, if Saints fans are satisfied with going 13-3 or 14-2 and getting bounced in the playoffs by a more physical team that smashes you in the teeth, so be it. They've beaten the field so far, sure, but the playoffs are a different animal. Now, it'll help that they'll wrap up the home field and won't have to play outside in the weather. But mark this, you won't establish the sort of running game you need to win in the playoffs by rotating three guys in and out. Again, I'm old school and I believe in the old adage that a RB needs 15-20 carries to get in the flow of a game and start dishing out some punishment.

 

Due respect Mick, but...

1. isn't it possible that Saints/Payton are doing the best thing for their team and their RBs to keep them fresh for playoffs, so that they can do well?

Look at Bengals, they look like they should make playoffs, much in part to Benson and revitalized running game. But they've also run him into the ground and he's missed time and could miss more. Not that I expect them to do well this year should they make it...maybe if they can sustain sucess over next few years, but either way their chances have to be considered less should he miss time or not be as effective during playoffs

 

2. A team having a strong running game and doing well in playoffs doesn't have to mean strong running game by one RB equals doing well in playoff.

Look at the last four SB champions regular seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/

click on winning team, then 'box' for each game

 

Each of the SB champs had a definite RBBC during season.

And with exception of Pitt last year, the other 3 teams carried that RBBC into playoffs and won it all.

And let's look at Pitt last year in playoffs. Willie Parker essentially was the workhorse in the playoffs...one could argue they/he could do that b/c he was fresh from having lighter workload during season.

 

NFL is league of emulation with the blueprint to emulate changing every several years...looks like payton is patterning this year's Saints from SB winners of last few years trying to put them in best position to win it all.

[R8RMick 242]

That's purely theoretical, and even if it were true they don't necessarily need to establish a feature back right now with the playoffs still 6 weeks away.

 

Just to play devil's advocate though I'll cite the Superbowl from a few years back between the Colts and Bears. That year the Colts had a timeshare at RB between Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai with neither of them being a true feature back. And what did they do? They gashed that "physical Bears defense that smashes you in the teeth" for almost 200 yards rushing.

 

And seriously, who cares about Pierre Thomas' value as a free agent next year? Do you honestly think Sean Payton cares about what kind of deal Pierre Thomas gets next year in free agency? Clearly you are a sour grapes PT owner who just needs to suck it up and get over it.

 

 

Wow, another internet tough guy... Anyhow, we're talking about THREE different guys rotating out of the Saints backfield (four if you count Hamilton), with no logical pattern or consistency to speak of. One week Bush gets goalline carries and all the work. The next week it's the Plumber's turn. The only real consistency is when Thomas gets a chance to shoulder a load he always opens up a can. Christ man, the dude's eighth in the NFC in rushing with barely 100 friggin carries! His ypc is untouchable outside of Chris Johnson and that 4.3 speed. He catches the ball out of the backfield, he's elusive yet runs with authority, the guy's a feature back who's being wasted in the modern version of Air Coryell. I'm very anxious to see how New England defenses them this week, whether the Hoodie takes away their passing gameor not.

 

And oh yes, you can bet your ass those TD's that get yanked from under his nose will come into play in a free agent situation. Every running back wants to be the man. EVERY one. Right now he's carrying that running game down the field, only to see some scab come in to trip over the goal line three yards away.

 

Comparing this Saints backfield to the running games of Indy, Pittsburgh and the NYG super bowl teams is laughable. Those were power teams with true smash mouth running games. Even Indy had a tough offensive line. But having said that, those backfields had set roles, they didn't 'play the hot hand...'

 

The cited example of Benson goes a ways to what I'm pointing to, though I wouldn't put much stock in his current injuries. I mean, here's a guy who begged out of the super bowl with basically a sore knee.

 

I ask again, are Saints fans satisfied with their team going 14-2 or 13-3 and getting bounced from the playoffs? As of now, the teams they may meet up with in the playoff will most likely be a combination of Minn, AZ, and/or Dallas. All top defensive teams against the rush, with potent passing games of their own. When it comes time to pound the rock and eat up minutes, will they be able to?

 

OK, I already admitted to being a PT owner, but would probably still make this argument anyhow. Bitter? Yeah, you bet.

[We Tigers 71]

I'm still confused by the argument here. No, the Saints haven't played much of a schedule, but do you think Pierre Thomas getting 20 carries a game now will make him (and, in turn, the Saints) more effective in the playoffs? You said yourself that he's put up great numbers on barely 100 carries, so it's clear he's not a purely volume runner. Bush is running at 5.0 ypc, Bell at 4.5, and all 3 have excelled in different situations. It's the most successful RBBC in the league. Thomas is clearly the most versatile player and best overall back, but Bush and Bell have been very strong for the Saints as well. If you can get 80%-90% of what your #1 guy gives you from the other guys, and you can keep your whole backfield fresh and healthy as a result--not just in the long-term, but from series to series in a given game--you're probably onto something.

 

If you maintain that the game changes drastically in the playoffs, how does giving Thomas 15-20 carries a game against what you've said are crap defenses help him? Teach him better how to run against junk that you think he won't face in the playoffs?

[NAn 39]

Comparing this Saints backfield to the running games of Indy, Pittsburgh and the NYG super bowl teams is laughable. Those were power teams with true smash mouth running games. Even Indy had a tough offensive line. But having said that, those backfields had set roles, they didn't 'play the hot hand...'

 

The cited example of Benson goes a ways to what I'm pointing to, though I wouldn't put much stock in his current injuries. I mean, here's a guy who begged out of the super bowl with basically a sore knee.

 

I ask again, are Saints fans satisfied with their team going 14-2 or 13-3 and getting bounced from the playoffs? As of now, the teams they may meet up with in the playoff will most likely be a combination of Minn, AZ, and/or Dallas. All top defensive teams against the rush, with potent passing games of their own. When it comes time to pound the rock and eat up minutes, will they be able to?

 

OK, I already admitted to being a PT owner, but would probably still make this argument anyhow. Bitter? Yeah, you bet.

 

Why is it laughable Mic? B/c it doesn't mesh with your opinion?

 

You made no mention of 'hot hand' in post I cited. Only your take that 'Saints will not you won't establish the sort of running game you need to win in the playoffs by rotating guys in and out'.

 

But that's exactly what Colts/Steelers/Giants did on way to playoffs and SB titles (and Colts/Giants did IN the playoffs).

 

And 'smash mouth'? Indy? not when they won the SB, they were very much like Saints this year...they had a solid run game but was often over looked/overshadowed by the passing game.

 

Saints are:

1st in total offense

1st in scoring

5th in rush offense

4th in rush atts

1st in rush tds

 

Seriously man, it sounds your arguement is based more on being a bitter PT owner and fact that PT does not have a lion's share of the last stat line.