Vikes Fans

[Walter34 3]

With the exodus of Moss, CPep and Tice, is the team better or worse overall?

 

I know there is positives and negatives with all the moves, but overall, do you see the team moving in the right direction and in the short term are they better now than before the Moss trade?

[Vikings4ever 550]

I think the Vikings are moving in the right direction. I'll miss seeing Culpeper throw bombs to Moss, but as we've seen the past 10 years or so, a superstar QB/WR team isn't going to win you the Super Bowl.

 

The team really suffered in the last few years of the McCombs era, he cut back on everything, including coach quality and number. That's not something you can do if you want to win.

 

Short term, they may have been a playoff team if Moss and Culpepper didn't leave, but it looks like Wilf is trying to build a Super Bowl team in the next few years.

[LunaTick 30]

Preface response:

 

Organization had been rebuilt, after the mid 80 Steckle experiment and after the retirement of the last of the SB expeince member to being in the position to make a run for another appearance.

 

When Burnsie retired, Green came on board with a top ranked defense and an offense a running back and an offense away from the title.

Organization under Green saw the loss of the defense orientation, which is as much the image of the Vikes as is the passing game. Loss was both due to lack of drafting people, signing, and paying as it was to the ideological issues between Green and Defensive/Special Teams players as a whole. Former players are like Denny or out right hated the guy. Has nothing to do with Race.

 

Culpepper and Moss each had their own benefits and detractions.

I will start with Moss:

 

Moss's threat is his speed and jumping ability. His typical route were along the sidelines. If he were to cross over the middle, he would likely be the primary target. The game plans would attempt to utilize his strenghts. But IMO this just made it easier to defend him.

To offset this, they would send him out to do meaningless sprints. I suppose it keeps him safe, but can also lead to game time boredom.

I had thought after a while, they should have simply not had him involved for a series or two in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

 

However, I think Green and Tices attempt to keep their jobs has resulted in Moss being injured as frequently as he has.

 

Biggest problem Moss had, is he was in a position to be marketable. But had not the interest in being so.

Thus he never came off well with the Media, and problem told some of them to stay away.

I have no problem with this. Would rather have that than the "You Know Me" Meshawn and the "I am the" TO.

 

Onto Culpepper

Problem with Culpepper is that Denny was too anxious to bring up his first round draft pick too early. After having pushed out the likes of Gannon and cycling through a list of at the end of their career QB like Moon, and Cunningham.

Cunningham had, after Brad Johnson become injured, lead the team to near a perfect season.

The stats that team generated was incredible and showed Denny the possibility of a strong offense. Vertical Passing, which was something Brad was not. The young Brad was dealt or FA to the redskins after that season. Jeff George would come in to backup and take over for Cunningham the following season.

 

After the 98 run, Green wanted one thing, and thought he could address another both in the first round.

He wanted his qb, which he felt would be Dante and took him in the first.

The fans wanted defense defense defense, having felt that def may have got them to the SB which Denny just missed.

So Green drafted someone no one else would have. Underwood.

 

Now to the point.

 

There were a few factors which made Dantes life hard in MN.

1. Denny's desire to prove his drafting prowess. But blinders to the defensive need.

2. Red McCombs being cheap as heck.

3. Underwood drafted, no defensive help when it was most apparent its need

4. Coming in as a sophmore before being adequately trained for the position. Denny not retaining Jeff to provide competition and someone to start the season.

5. Tells, or staring down his receiver from the start.

 

What resulted in his exodus:

For Wilf it would be the Love Boat.

For Childress it would be creating his own identity. Dante is one of a few prominent players from Dennys era.

For the fan, it was his abandonment of the team publicly once he was injured last season.

 

 

Now as for the question you did not ask:

Where does this upcoming year hold for the Vikes?

No idea. Is hard to say what the identity of this team will be.

But most concerned for me is what the organization intends to do to fill the QB position for 2007 and beyond.

Right now, there is no one on the team to start next year.

[LunaTick 30]

Answer your question:

 

Moss: Better, without.

1. He is hobbled, unfortunately. Unfortunately his contract may prevent him from getting the time off he needs to recover and be 100% ever again.

2. With the coaching at the time, his style was limiting rather than expanding the offense.

3. You needed 3 legitimate threads at WR to balance the passing game and a solid rb to keep the safeties off of him.

Moss: Worse:

1. Lacked that clutch receiver in the redzone. No longer have anyone who can out jump the secondary.

 

I thought after the trade, the Raiders had the WR corps in place for him to succeed. They simply lacked a QB that could make it happen. Collins is just that awful.

 

Dante: Better, without

1. Tells impaired his ability to maintain drives.

Dante:Worse.

No transition at the QB position. At least when Denny started finding his QB. The team had depth at the position.

 

Vikes last season he really missed Birk. He had always had a ProBowl Center in front of him coaching the line. Coordinating their defense of the line. With both Birk and retirement of (?) and Red being too cheap to hire an OC and Wilf being too reluctant to aid a coach he wanted to replace. There wasn't the support to right the ship when it got off to a rough start vs TB. That loss could have been won, and wasn't as bad as the final score. But Dante was self rattled that game and was not able to recover.

 

However, I find it difficult to see how Dantes attitidue may be compared with TO as for attitude, selfishness, etc.

But I do believe that Dante wanted to move, as much as Childress wanted his own QB.

Reason why Dante focused on the Fins. Good or bad.

Just wonder who will start for the Fins for at least the first half of the season.

 

 

BTW, if Dante did ignore strippers enlieu of a Craps game, this would be an indicator Dante has a gambling problem in my book.

[Portis26 0]

BTW, if Dante did ignore strippers enlieu of a Craps game, this would be an indicator Dante has a gambling problem in my book.

 

[Buttmonkey 8]

The Vikings may be a better team, but not because Moss and Culpepper are gone.

 

Forget the off-field stuff, there is no way someone can say the Vikings are a better team without Moss and Culpepper when they have not come close to replacing those guys.

 

People bash Moss and say he only ran certain routes, didn't go over the middle, uh - please look at his yearly stats and he is one of the top 3 wideouts in the league year-in and year-out (injuries aside). So, you guys would have people believe the Vikings are better with Troy Williamson???? LMAO

 

Brad Johnson is better than Daunte Culpepper?? Sure he is. Have fun going 6-10 this year.

 

Sure, the Vikes are much better without those two

[LunaTick 30]

The Vikings may be a better team, but not because Moss and Culpepper are gone.

 

Forget the off-field stuff, there is no way someone can say the Vikings are a better team without Moss and Culpepper when they have not come close to replacing those guys.

 

People bash Moss and say he only ran certain routes, didn't go over the middle, uh - please look at his yearly stats and he is one of the top 3 wideouts in the league year-in and year-out (injuries aside). So, you guys would have people believe the Vikings are better with Troy Williamson???? LMAO

 

Brad Johnson is better than Daunte Culpepper?? Sure he is. Have fun going 6-10 this year.

 

Sure, the Vikes are much better without those two

 

Your point is valid from a fantasy perspective only.

 

problem is the goal is a ring.

 

while both are stats monsters in tandem, this does not on its own a super bowl make,

during this same time, the "teams" which have won the bowls are the antithesis of the stats monsters.

 

believe it or not, but the combo was offense limiting, if you played Moss as a threat and not as an option.

[Hagy34 0]

The Vikings may be a better team, but not because Moss and Culpepper are gone.

 

Forget the off-field stuff, there is no way someone can say the Vikings are a better team without Moss and Culpepper when they have not come close to replacing those guys.

 

People bash Moss and say he only ran certain routes, didn't go over the middle, uh - please look at his yearly stats and he is one of the top 3 wideouts in the league year-in and year-out (injuries aside). So, you guys would have people believe the Vikings are better with Troy Williamson???? LMAO

 

Brad Johnson is better than Daunte Culpepper?? Sure he is. Have fun going 6-10 this year.

 

Sure, the Vikes are much better without those two

 

Thats bold, why don't you put your money where your mouth is on that prediction. No way in hell do they go 6-10. Any team that can go 9-7 with Mike Tice is going to improve, I mean seriously how many games did we win with Daunte under center? Sure Daunte is a great QB when he can just throw it up or run somebody over. But when the pocket collapses all that happens is a turnover. The loss of Moss sure hurts but I wouldn't go around saying Daunte is a huge loss. He did nothing for us last season and when Brad stepped in he had to work with the same system. Daunte doesnt have the head to win consistenly and will NEVER win a superbowl.

[birdbrain3X 0]

For a team that seems to be rebuilding with a new identity I'd say the Vikes are doing a hell of a job. Brad Childress is going to be a great coach, as an Eagle fan I was not happy to see him leave. The backfield with Richardson and Taylor should be a powerful one and add Hutch to the line and Longwell to kick. Outstanding! Some of the best F.A. pick-ups available. The only thing to worry about that I see is back-up QB. With Johnson being injury prone I would seriously worry if Mcmahon sees the field. I like him, he's a great guy and a heck of a competitor but he just can't QB in the NFL. He's a mess behind the center. He should beef up and be a TE like Reimersma.

If the Vikes come together and stay healthy they are 10-6 or better.

[Darb33 0]

This team is going in the complete wrong direction. They were in the playoffs and won just 14 months ago. Now the quarterback, wide receiver, and entire coaching staff are all gone. What is the plan when Johnson gets hurt this year? How many times has he played played 16 games in his career? My prediction on this year is 4-12. 2 or 3 years from now, Brad Childress will be fired.

[remote controller 143]

Losing two franchise players in just two years has to sting. Compound that with the SOTD screwing up their running back plans. This leaves the Vikes in the precarious position of having to rebuild on offense. Johnson, Moore, and Burelson need alot of help. Compound this with a defense that was still suspect leaves one thinking if they are truly a threat to Chicago on top of the norse. Tice really screwed up a window of oppurtunity for the Vikes.