Peyton Manning's best chance at a Super Bowl was last year.

[t.j 35]

now that you've shown us monkey's can type.

 

Maybe so, but apparently they don't know how to use an apostrophe!

[Walter34 3]

I am both impressed and amazed that this thread hasnt degenerated into the old nonsense. Maybe FFT has turned a corner ...

[George Carlin 1]

I am both impressed and amazed that this thread hasnt degenerated into the old nonsense. Maybe FFT has turned a corner ...

 

 

other than t.j acting like a 9 year old, I agree.

he feels like a such a man insulting people on a messageboard.

[murf74 461]

I will state it this way.

 

Peyton Manning will never have a better chance at making the superbowl than he did last year.

 

He had a dominant D, a super RB and HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE.

 

What more would have to happen for the Colts to have a better chance than last season?

 

Manning is not improving during each year of the playoffs. He shrinks and looks like a rookie when you put pressure on him.

[thecons 0]

[toofunny 0]

Exactly. I remember just about everyone saying how Elway couldn't win the big game. People are so stupid. They are so blinded by the past they can't allow themselves to see a different future.

 

A different future would be the Colts NOT competing for a SB year in year out.

 

I hate to break it to you, but not all teams "get over the hump" and go win a SB. The Eagles, Pats, Colts could all miss the playoffs this year, and it wouldn't be earth shattering. Things change. I don't even have the Eagles making the playoffs. How quickly things change?

 

You just don't get 1st round bye after 1st round bye. People assume because the Colts have had recent success, it will continue. In fact the way they have allocated such a large chunk of the cap to Manning/Harrison/Wayne, it's extremely difficult for them to re-sign those breakout D players. Maybe they D has evolved where they can move parts in and out, it's not working too well for the Pats lately is it? They have far less invested in the offense, and have still lost huge chucks of that SB D.

 

I'm not sure I believe the Colts are going to struggle the next 3-4 years. But it's hardly a given they get a 1st round bye 2-3 times the next 3-4 years. In fact statistically that's probably a long shot. Too many things can go wrong. Manning gets hurt? Harrison? Either one of those guys go down they don't make the playoffs. It happens all the time. The D takes a few steps back. The loss of Edge hurts more then they expect. They couldn't win it WITH Edge, now they'll get a better shot without him?

 

For every Elway you can toss out, I can toss out a Marino. People love to wax poetically about Manning getting over the hump, Dungy getting over the hump. It's a process they say. Someone should let the Bills know this, they are still waiting to get over the hump. In fact so are the Eagles. Seahawks would love to get over that hump also. Man those Panthers are looking forward to getting over that hump too. So are the Chargers. Denver should get over that hump this year too.

 

Wow we have 6 teams getting over the hump to win the SB this year. I hope they have enough trophies.

[donkeyboy22 0]

Colts homer here and unfortunately, I completely agree with this post.

 

IMO, Edge was the cog to the Colts offense machine and losing him may kill that team.

 

I'm hoping not, but I can see a significant drop in the Colts this year.

 

But hey, #18 is gettin' PAID!!!! No, I'm not bitter.

 

[t.j 35]

other than t.j acting like a 9 year old, I agree.

he feels like a such a man insulting people on a messageboard.

 

Pot...kettle!

 

A different future would be the Colts NOT competing for a SB year in year out.

 

That's true, that could happen. Manning could end up injury-riddled the rest of his career after being injury-free up to this point. Or the Colts could simply play poorly. Anything can happen, and it wasn't my intention to suggest that worse times are not a possibility for the Colts. All I was saying is that those who think Manning can't get to the Super Bowl because he has "proven" that he will never get it done in the playoffs, should find a better reason.

 

I hate to break it to you

 

Do you really?

 

I'm not sure I believe the Colts are going to struggle the next 3-4 years. But it's hardly a given they get a 1st round bye 2-3 times the next 3-4 years. In fact statistically that's probably a long shot.

 

That's true that getting a bye 2-3 times in the next 3-4 years is statistically a long shot. The problem with your argument is that the discussion is whether Manning will get a better shot at a Super Bowl, and he probably has more than 4 years left, and he doesn't need to get a bye 2-3 times for it to happen, it only happens once. Ok?

Manning's 30 years old and doesn't rely on his athletic ability so he figures to last at least as long as an Aikman (34) or maybe even Elway (38). So you figure he's got about 6 seasons left if he wants it. And for all your talk about what could go wrong and how hard it is to keep a team together, the fact is the Colts so far have a lot more pieces in place than what they have lost. Anything could happen but reasonable people (including yourself) agree that they are still a contender at this point.

You talk about the Eagles fall from grace but let's keep in mind a couple of things: 1. That was a team that had a run longer than what the Colts have had so far, 2. That was a team that peaked after many thought they had already been on top too long to be likely to stay together, 3. It wasn't magic that took them down in 2005. Their most valuable player got hurt, their second-most valuable player got suspended due to behavior problems, and their defense got old overnight. Compare that to the Colts situation and there are good reasons to believe they are going to hang around for awhile.

 

Another key point that hasn't been touched on, all the examples you have talked about... Patriots, Eagles, Marino, Elway... in every case we are talking about teams with a great quarterback who went to the Super Bowl. And with the exception of Marino they all did it after falling on some hard times, and people questioning how good the quarterback really was as it pertained to carrying a championship team. Raise your hand if you thought the Patriots were one and done after going 9-7 following their first Super Bowl). And Marino, at least, did get there. The point being, great quarterbacks have a huge advantage over other players in terms of getting to the Super Bowl. And it's obvious to everyone that Manning is a great quarterback.

 

So yes, I believe things could get better or worse for the Colts. But IMO it is not reasonable to believe that we've seen the best of Manning in terms of playoff performance yet, nor is it reasonable to believe he's had his best opportunity yet. People said he couldn't win a playoff game. Then people said he couldn't win a road playoff game. Then people said he coudn't beat the Patriots in any game. He's disproven these premature and ridiculous criticisms wrong one by one. Now people are saying he can't get to the Super Bowl. I'm sure when he gets there, people will still say he can't win it because he can't win the Big Game. The only difference being the definition of a Big Game will have conveniently changed from a wild card game to a road playoff game to a conference championship game to the Super Bowl.

[TD Ryan2 314]

But hey, #18 is gettin' PAID!!!! No, I'm not bitter.

 

Manning getting to the superbowl will have little to do with Peyton Manning and more to do with the Colts' financial situation.

Manning is more than good enough to win a SuperBowl, but will the Colts be?

Consider this: the New England Patriots entire WR corps cost them less than (approx.) $4mil last year.

The Colts now have 3 WRs that are amongst the top 36 (in salary) in the NFL:

Harrison (#2): $9.1 million (avg)

Wayne (#10): $6.5 million (avg)

Stokely (#36): $2.9 million (avg)

 

Then you add in Manning's contract and a premiere kicker (@2.5mil/year) and you've got (approx) $35mil of your salary cap tied into 5 players... forty-eight players are then left to divide about $65 million in salary-cap scraps!

Based on recent signings, the going rate for top DE's seems to be around $18+mil a year... can the Colts lock up Freeney to a long term deal for that kind of money? That'd be a total of 6 players and only $46mil left for the other forty-seven guys!!!

[t.j 35]

Manning getting to the superbowl will have little to do with Peyton Manning and more to do with the Colts' financial situation.

Manning is more than good enough to win a SuperBowl, but will the Colts be?

Consider this: the New England Patriots entire WR corps cost them less than (approx.) $4mil last year.

The Colts now have 3 WRs that are amongst the top 36 (in salary) in the NFL:

Harrison (#2): $9.1 million (avg)

Wayne (#10): $6.5 million (avg)

Stokely (#36): $2.9 million (avg)

 

Then you add in Manning's contract and a premiere kicker (@2.5mil/year) and you've got (approx) $35mil of your salary cap tied into 5 players... forty-eight players are then left to divide about $65 million in salary-cap scraps!

Based on recent signings, the going rate for top DE's seems to be around $18+mil a year... can the Colts lock up Freeney to a long term deal for that kind of money? That'd be a total of 6 players and only $46mil left for the other forty-seven guys!!!

 

GM Polian is convinced that they can re-sign Freeney. His stated primary reason for letting Edge go was because it was more important to be able to give new contracts to Freeney and Mathis. As mentioned by someone earlier in the thread, Polian has proven himself to be one of the best at what he does. If he intends to keep those guys and believes that they will, and has already taken steps to make it happen, there isn't much reason to doubt that it's realistic.

 

And you know this but I'll state it anyway: The elite players on any team get paid so much more than the merely good players. You can't compare the salaries of the '06 Colts' WRs to the salaries of the '05 Patriots' WRs... everyone knows the Patriots focused their salary cap on positions other than WR. In '05, Givens was in the last year of his contract and Branch the second-to-last. That was the best timing for value at that position that the Patriots are ever going to get. Next year, most likely, Branch is going to make close to what the entire '05 corps got paid, and Givens will still be gone. The Colts' WRs, on the other hand, are freshly paid, so their "average salaries" are inflated as a result. Furthermore, Harrison and Wayne are locked up through 2011, and Stokley through 2009, so their annual cap hit will be less than their "average salary" for several years yet. Anyway, the point is, the structure of the Colts' salaries in terms of what their top players get paid compared to the vast majority of their roster is not out of whack. $65M for the rest of the roster is hardly table scraps. Hell, the Vikings have been paying their entire team about that for years.

[RoadLizard 73]

Last year was certainly a great opportunity for the Colts, but hey they blew it.

 

As for Manning... he'll never win a Super Bowl until they get a real coach.

 

Sorry but Dungy is an UNDER-acheiving coach that has been handed monster talent on two different occassions now ( Tampa, Indy ) and done nothing ith it. He is soft, gentle, and just too ho-hum for my tastes. His nice guy attitude seems entrancing at first but then both he and his teams go SOOOOOFT at the worst possible times.

 

Chucky Gruden comes in to Tampa with essentially the same team and blows the league away. That's a great example right there. Unfortunately for Manning he has never had that great of a head coach to work with and until he does he will not win any Super Bowls.

 

As long as the Colts have Dungy, they are a "one and out" playoff team like every other Dungy coached team.

 

Sorry but that's he dealeo.....

[mighty_thor 115]

The Colts were incredibly lucky with injuries last year, so yes it was his best opportunity to win. Harrison is getting older and they will be lucky to avoid key injuries plus the loss of James will hurt.

[mdm_1971 0]

People saying it wasn't his best chance, don't realize how hard it is to get the the SB.

 

They already lost some people ont he D, lost some people on the offense.

 

Look at Marino. Look at HOFers who NEVER made it to the SB. With the Pats out, Indy really should have taken advantage of it.

 

Teams don't just compete for the SB year in and year out. Indy could make the playoffs once in the next three years, and that wouldn't even be a big story. That happens in the NFL more then people realize.

 

Look at the Ravens. That D was so good. They added even more talent. Things just never worked out. The Bucs with Johnson, great D. Things fell apart. The Rams were unstoppable. Look at the Eagles. They make the SB, then miss the playoffs. It's not a given you dominate year in and year out.

 

And those are teams who MADE the superbowl. You don't knock on the door for 10 years. Even the Steelers missed the playoffs a few years back. It's just extremely hard to maintain 12-4 seasons. Constantly winning. Constantly in the hunt for the SB.

 

Would anyone really be shocked if the Pats missed the playoffs this year?

 

There is no given in the NFL. It's not a given the Colts make the playoffs. It's not a given the Colts EVER make a SB. So having home field, defending champs out, no injuries, it was setup maybe nicer then they'll ever see again.

just a side note Marino made it to the superbowl just didnt win it.... and he was on a team that didnt have any other weapons, he did it all himself........ Manning has a lot of talent around him and if he doesnt at least get to a superbowl then he will be looked as a somebody that could not get it done when it was on the line

[TD Ryan2 314]

Would anyone really be shocked if the Pats missed the playoffs this year?

 

YES!

[TD Ryan2 314]

just a side note Marino made it to the superbowl just didnt win it.... and he was on a team that didnt have any other weapons, he did it all himself........

 

 

that's not really true... it's a nice little addition to the Legend of Marino... and don't get me wrong, Marino is one of the all-time greats. But if you're gonna' call Manning a choker, you'd better call Marino a choker too:

 

Marino's Defense:

- Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league’s No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That’s a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino’s playing days.

- Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

- In Marino’s record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league’s No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

 

Bottom line: He played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

 

 

Marino's Running Game:

- Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.

- In Marino’s rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground. In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.

- It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino’s career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino’s arm.

- But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino’s 17 seasons.

Bottom Line: Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.

 

The Marino/Manning comparisons are fairly accurate:

- you want to talk about big game choking? Marino's right there with Manning.

Marino's played dropped off quite noticeably in the post season. He has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

- In his one Super Bowl appearance (a 38-16 loss to the 49ers in Super Bowl XIX), Marino completed 29 of 50 passes for 318 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. It adds up to a weak 66.9 passer rating. One wonders what might have happened had his two Super Bowl drives that ended in interceptions ended in touchdowns instead.

- Remember that 1998 Miami team that had the best defense in football? It made the playoffs, but Marino failed to hold up his end of the bargain. The season ended in the second round of the playoffs, with Marino coughing up two interceptions against Denver and posting a passer rating of just 65.5. Yet another opportunity for Marino to win a Super Bowl tossed into the hands of an opposing defender.

- Marino threw at least one interception in 13 of his 18 career playoff games. He threw two or more interceptions 10 times. The Dolphins went just 1-9 in those 10 Marino multi-interception playoff games.

[George Carlin 1]

that's not really true... it's a nice little addition to the Legend of Marino... and don't get me wrong, Marino is one of the all-time greats. But if you're gonna' call Manning a choker, you'd better call Marino a choker too:

 

Marino's Defense:

- Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league’s No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That’s a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino’s playing days.

- Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

- In Marino’s record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league’s No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

 

Bottom line: He played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

Marino's Running Game:

- Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.

- In Marino’s rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground. In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.

- It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino’s career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino’s arm.

- But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino’s 17 seasons.

Bottom Line: Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.

 

The Marino/Manning comparisons are fairly accurate:

- you want to talk about big game choking? Marino's right there with Manning.

Marino's played dropped off quite noticeably in the post season. He has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

- In his one Super Bowl appearance (a 38-16 loss to the 49ers in Super Bowl XIX), Marino completed 29 of 50 passes for 318 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. It adds up to a weak 66.9 passer rating. One wonders what might have happened had his two Super Bowl drives that ended in interceptions ended in touchdowns instead.

- Remember that 1998 Miami team that had the best defense in football? It made the playoffs, but Marino failed to hold up his end of the bargain. The season ended in the second round of the playoffs, with Marino coughing up two interceptions against Denver and posting a passer rating of just 65.5. Yet another opportunity for Marino to win a Super Bowl tossed into the hands of an opposing defender.

- Marino threw at least one interception in 13 of his 18 career playoff games. He threw two or more interceptions 10 times. The Dolphins went just 1-9 in those 10 Marino multi-interception playoff games.

 

 

MARINOWED

[t.j 35]

that's not really true... it's a nice little addition to the Legend of Marino... and don't get me wrong, Marino is one of the all-time greats. But if you're gonna' call Manning a choker, you'd better call Marino a choker too:

 

Jeez... where to begin? Aside from the fact that mdm_1971 didn't call Manning a choker, and aside from the fact that Marino did go to a Super Bowl, so despite all your arguments that Manning is a choker that bodes well for him...

 

Marino's Defense:

- Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league’s No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That’s a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino’s playing days.

 

Forget the ratio. 1983 and 1998? Think about it. You're talking about his A. rookie year (and we all know what that means in terms of a QB's Super Bowl chances), and B. the next-to-last season of his career, his 16th season at age 37 (7 years older than Manning is now), when Abdul-Karim al-Jabbar and OJ McDuffie were the most productive skill players on his offense. Plus, that defensive scoring title (265 points allowed) was one of the most points allowed for a defensive scoring title in NFL history. 5 teams gave up fewer points than that in 2005 alone. The Dolphins that year went 10-6, didn't win their division let alone get a bye, won in the wild card round and then lost at eventual-champ Denver. Are you're trying to make the case that this has something to do with Marino being a playoff choker?

Seriously, the fact that the Dolphins led the NFL in scoring defense in those two years is as close to irrelevant as you can get. Come on man, are you seriously defending the Dolphins' defense during the Marino era?

 

- Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

 

Come on man. Now you are comparing the Steel Curtain disfavorably to the Marino-era Dolphin D? With this weak stat? In 11 of the 12 playoff games for the 70s champion Steelers, they gave up an average of 11.9 points. Bradshaw participated in one shootout, Super Bowl XIII.

 

- In Marino’s record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game).

 

And they went to the Super Bowl.

 

The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league’s No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

 

And they lost 44-34 at Buffalo in the playoffs. Words cannot describe how much Marino sucked in the playoffs that year.

 

Bottom line: He played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

 

 

Marino's Running Game:- Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.

 

Ah, 1982, the strike-shortened year. Miami's passing game definitely sucked and the defense was awesome that year, especially in the playoffs (9 points per game prior to the Super Bowl). By the way, the only running back who did anything for the Dolphins in both 1982 and 1984 was Tony Nathan... who rushed for 233 yards and 1 TD in '82.

Seriously I can't believe you are now trying to make arguments against Marino based on the Dolphins' performance during his senior year.

 

- In Marino’s rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground.

 

And Marino had the best rookie year any NFL quarterback has ever had. But he was still a rookie. So he's a choker because he lost in the playoffs as a rookie? Kind of like Ben Roethlisberger, right?

 

In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.

 

The Dolphins had plenty of opportunities and space to run the ball with the damage Marino was doing to defenses that year, that's for sure. Too bad the Dolphins gave up 38 points and only rushed 8 times for 25 yards in the Super Bowl against the 49ers at Stanford no less.

 

Getting back to Roethlisberger... since he's the only QB who's ever had a rookie season comparable to Marino's... as we all know he did bounce back and win a Super Bowl, ironically getting to the big dance in year 2 just like Danny. Care to share with us what Roethlisberger's stats in the Super Bowl were? Maybe, just maybe, if Marino's teammates had really stepped up when it really counted, he too would have a shiny ring like Big Ben.

 

 

- It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino’s career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino’s arm.

 

Hell, your whole post was disingenuous, why stop there?

 

- But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino’s 17 seasons.

 

Nobody is questioning Brady's ability here. But make no mistake, Brady's supporting cast that year (including offensive teammates, defense, special teams, and coaching) was better than anything Marino had during his career.

 

Bottom Line: Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.

 

 

The Marino/Manning comparisons are fairly accurate:

- you want to talk about big game choking? Marino's right there with Manning.

Marino's played dropped off quite noticeably in the post season. He has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

 

Considering the quality of opposition increases greatly when you get to the playoffs, I hardly think a passer rating drop of 9 is proof of choking. Good god man.

 

I will say this, though. Marino played far more of his career playoff games at home than Manning did. So if you want to use that against my argument that Manning has been held back by a rough playoff schedule, go ahead.

 

- In his one Super Bowl appearance (a 38-16 loss to the 49ers in Super Bowl XIX), Marino completed 29 of 50 passes for 318 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. It adds up to a weak 66.9 passer rating. One wonders what might have happened had his two Super Bowl drives that ended in interceptions ended in touchdowns instead.

 

One wonders also what would have happened if he were more experienced than in his second year, or if the game weren't the only 99%-true home game for a team in Super Bowl history... against a 49ers team that posted an NFL-record 2.09 points scored for every point allowed in the regular season, and only gave up 5 points per game during the NFC playoffs that year. Come on man, your argument here just plain sucks.

 

- Marino threw at least one interception in 13 of his 18 career playoff games. He threw two or more interceptions 10 times. The Dolphins went just 1-9 in those 10 Marino multi-interception playoff games.

 

I wonder how many picks per game the defenses he faced had averaged during the regular season. I wonder how many yards per game the Dolphins rushed for in those games. Needless to say, as great as Marino was, it wasn't great enough. Call him a playoff choker if you will, and no doubt some of his playoff performances were chokes (just as some of Manning's have been). I won't defend Marino's playoff resume in general but all of your arguments to the point of defending his supporting cast during that time were awful.

 

MARINOWED

 

Spoken like a true 9 year-old.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Nobody is questioning Brady's ability here. But make no mistake, Brady's supporting cast that year (including offensive teammates, defense, special teams, and coaching) was better than anything Marino had during his career.

 

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That’s a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino’s career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England’s two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

 

Then you add in Don Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history.

We all know how important coaching is in the NFL and there's no doubt that Belichick is as much of an asset to Brady as Dungy is proving to be an albatross to Manning.

Marino had the best in the business on his side.

While working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, Shula led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.

 

 

is my original post disingenuous? yeah, somewhat and that's why I prefaced it with "don't get me wrong, Marino is one of the all-time greats" but things weren't as bleak in MIA for Danny as the legend continues to grow and suggest.

[t.j 35]

Nobody is questioning Brady's ability here. But make no mistake, Brady's supporting cast [in 2003] (including offensive teammates, defense, special teams, and coaching) was better than anything Marino had during his career.

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That’s a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino’s career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England’s two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

 

Jeez. Brady himself did not make the Pro Bowl in 2003! That shows you how much the Pro Bowl has to do with choking quarterbacks.

 

While working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, Shula led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.

 

How many of those Super Bowl years did Shula's defense and running backs suck half as much as they did during the Marino era?

 

At this point you're either fishing, or you've lost your mind...

 

is my original post disingenuous? yeah, somewhat and that's why I prefaced it with "don't get me wrong, Marino is one of the all-time greats" but things weren't as bleak in MIA for Danny as the legend continues to grow and suggest.

 

They were a lot closer to as bleak as the "legend" tells, than they were to the amazing quarterback-helping machine you paint them out to be.

[toofunny 0]

chop chop chop

 

I agree this whole "Manning can't do it!" stuff is silly. Like I said, great players don't even make it to the SB all the time. Let alone win one. I don't really buy into the "can't win the big one".

 

My point was even in the best of situations, it's extremely hard to win a SB. Last year was almost ideal conditions for the Colts. How often are they going to have home field, first round bye?

 

My point is that the window could close, without Manning getting worse, or getting hurt. That's how the NFL is. Rarely does a team play at the highest level for 6-8-10-12 years. With FA it gets harder and harder to keep that core together. And I believe losing Edge will have a much greater impact then people expect. Remember that year Faulk left they had what the 5th pick overall? Helps to replace Faulk with the 1st RB taken in the draft. Lets see how they do it with the 4th RB taken.

[Walter34 3]

TD TJ

 

Have to agree with Raider fan here. Td makes some good points, but seems to be stretching stats and emphasizing irrelevancies in order to support a weak stance.

 

:mrswilzone:

[ColtFan 0]

LOL