Norris Battledome - Pre-Draft

[swamp dog 0]

2005 rushing:

 

Chi 2099 / 4.3

Det 1471 / 3.6

Min 1467 / 3.9

GB 1352 / 3.4

 

Facts ... Reality ... Catch it

 

Actually, while looking this up, I saw Minn gave up 54 sacks last year, so their oline is likely over valued even with the addition of Hutch.

 

and what was muhammed's 2004 numbers versus his 2005 numbers? your facts are meaningless. every year is a new year, walt.

[Sho Nuff 720]

and what was muhammed's 2004 numbers versus his 2005 numbers? your facts are meaningless. every year is a new year, walt.

 

But it was ok for you to talk about Jones' last 8 games in 04 but dismiss his 05 numbers?

 

Typical swampy....

[DrJ 0]

But it was ok for you to talk about Jones' last 8 games in 04 but dismiss his 05 numbers?

 

Typical swampy....

 

[mozzy84 0]

2005 rushing:

 

Chi 2099 / 4.3

Det 1471 / 3.6

Min 1467 / 3.9

GB 1352 / 3.4

 

Facts ... Reality ... Catch it

 

Actually, while looking this up, I saw Minn gave up 54 sacks last year, so their oline is likely over valued even with the addition of Hutch.

 

Probably 3/4 of those sacks were when Culpepper was staring downfield trying to find out where moss was. The line got much better when Johnson was starting, plus they should have Birk back up at full speed this year, so really its adding Hutch and Birk off of last year.

 

Nice work on the list, few things could be nit picked to death if need be. But good job. Hopefully the vikes can pull a linebacker out of their ass because those guy are bad, they don't even deserve the 3 you gave them. Pick #17 better be a linebacker.

[DrJ 0]

kevin jones has just as many 1000+ yard season as thomas jones: ONE. the difference? kj needed 1 year in the nfl to do that and thomas needed six. but whose focking counting, right? and here you are essentially saying thomas jones is some other strata of rb--and that the bears backup/scrubs/unprovens are better "comparisions" for kj.

 

your name calling is nothing but a red herring to mask your weak rhetoric and poor logic.

 

there is simply no justification for giving the bears a "clear" point advantage (nearly 5 full points) in the rb category.

 

I didn't say that Thomas Jones was in some other strata, I said that Benson was in the same strata. And KJ's performance last year did nothing to indicate that this isn't the case. Get your facts straight, welcher. And since Benson is the #2, and KJ is the #1, that makes the Bears rushing attack well ahead of Detroit's by default.

 

Even the most delusional Lions fan has to admit that Benson is 10 times the commodity that Bryson is, and that fact alone would rank the Bears ahead by a decent margin.

 

I can see this is going to be a fun season again - what's the over/under for welchdog running off crying? I'm going to say November 5th. I'm going to guess he cuts his welching down to twice this season though - mostly because only rooks who don't know better will take him up on any wagers.

[Walter34 3]

But it was ok for you to talk about Jones' last 8 games in 04 but dismiss his 05 numbers?

 

Typical swampy....

 

No kidding.

[swamp dog 0]

I didn't say that Thomas Jones was in some other strata, I said that Benson was in the same strata. And KJ's performance last year did nothing to indicate that this isn't the case. Get your facts straight, welcher. And since Benson is the #2, and KJ is the #1, that makes the Bears rushing attack well ahead of Detroit's by default.

 

Even the most delusional Lions fan has to admit that Benson is 10 times the commodity that Bryson is, and that fact alone would rank the Bears ahead by a decent margin.

 

I can see this is going to be a fun season again - what's the over/under for welchdog running off crying? I'm going to say November 5th. I'm going to guess he cuts his welching down to twice this season though - mostly because only rooks who don't know better will take him up on any wagers.

 

i got you and don like i tricked my dog the other day. get over it. stop your whining. petition mike. see a priest. drink more. or any combination of those things that will help you find inner peace. one of my proudest moments on this board has been getting in your head and don's and making you both completely miserable. hell, i may even put the welchdog sig in my sig. i love it

 

 

But it was ok for you to talk about Jones' last 8 games in 04 but dismiss his 05 numbers?

 

Typical swampy....

 

nope, not inconsistent at all. i was pointing out to walt that you cannot base predictions based on past performances. for example, muhammed. not sure why that was hard for you but i'll be nice and explain it for you and not say anything more about it

 

the running games of all four teams are about even going into the season. each team's homers will make a case for their team having some sort of mythical advantage over the other three. there will be surprises this year in the division just like there were last year. and some of them will be pleasant surprises and some of them not so pleasant, depending on which side of the bleachers one is sitting on

[Walter34 3]

the running games of all four teams are about even going into the season. each team's homers will make a case for their team having some sort of mythical advantage over the other three.

 

Now you're just being silly. Take a poll of fans outside the division and the Bears get 90% of it. Last year is last year, but the difference was so staggering that yes, it is relevant. Nothing has changed in Det or GB to think that the gap has closed any. Minn added Hutch and Richardson Taylor, but lost bennett and probably Onterio.

 

You can live by the anything can happen motto all you want. That is all you really have to base it on. I presented numbers from the most recent year that shows 40% more production from the Bears running game than everyone else in the division. That is the reality until proven otherwise.

[swamp dog 0]

Now you're just being silly. Take a poll of fans outside the division and the Bears get 90% of it. Last year is last year, but the difference was so staggering that yes, it is relevant. Nothing has changed in Det or GB to think that the gap has closed any. Minn added Hutch and Richardson Taylor, but lost bennett and probably Onterio.

 

You can live by the anything can happen motto all you want. That is all you really have to base it on. I presented numbers from the most recent year that shows 40% more production from the Bears running game than everyone else in the division. That is the reality until proven otherwise.

 

polls mean nothing this time of year. no one knows squat right now. i seem to remember you bear fans getting all bent out of shape last year because of the scientific polls showing 90 percent of fans outside the nfcn predicted crappiness for the bears.

 

so what? thomas jones certainly hasn't been consistently good--or even decent--for any stretch of time in his career and benson is a big ??? you can say the bears have an advantage there all you want. it means nothing in april.

[DrJ 0]

i got you and don like i tricked my dog the other day. get over it. stop your whining. petition mike. see a priest. drink more. or any combination of those things that will help you find inner peace. one of my proudest moments on this board has been getting in your head and don's and making you both completely miserable. hell, i may even put the welchdog sig in my sig. i love it

nope, not inconsistent at all. i was pointing out to walt that you cannot base predictions based on past performances. for example, muhammed. not sure why that was hard for you but i'll be nice and explain it for you and not say anything more about it

 

the running games of all four teams are about even going into the season. each team's homers will make a case for their team having some sort of mythical advantage over the other three. there will be surprises this year in the division just like there were last year. and some of them will be pleasant surprises and some of them not so pleasant, depending on which side of the bleachers one is sitting on

 

To anyone on this plane of reality, it's clear that the guy that ran off crying like a little school girl is the one who lets these dicussions get to them.

 

Who would have thought you could have less honor in your return than that pitiful departure. But that's welchdog, constantly amazing us.

 

kevin jones certainly hasn't been consistently good--or even decent--for any stretch of time in his career

 

Exactly.

[donhaas 18]

i got you and don like i tricked my dog the other day. get over it. stop your whining. petition mike. see a priest. drink more. or any combination of those things that will help you find inner peace. one of my proudest moments on this board has been getting in your head and don's and making you both completely miserable. hell, i may even put the welchdog sig in my sig. i love it

 

 

That's your proudest moment? Welching on a couple bets that the whole forum saw throughout last year.

and disappearing like a baby when your team went south, just like I predicted.

 

I guess when you have little to offer to the board, that would be your proudest moment.

 

I personally haven't given you nearly as much grief as you deserve for your uttler lack of sack for not honoring your bet. I really don't care. It says much more about you and your ethics than it does me.

 

Everybody knows who you are and what you are about. Anything you say is meaningless; any bet you make will be disregarded.

Let's just talk football from here on out.

[swamp dog 0]

That's your proudest moment? Welching on a couple bets that the whole forum saw throughout last year.

and disappearing like a baby when your team went south, just like I predicted.

 

I guess when you have little to offer to the board, that would be your proudest moment.

 

I personally haven't given you nearly as much grief as you deserve for your uttler lack of sack for not honoring your bet. I really don't care. It says much more about you and your ethics than it does me.

 

Everybody knows who you are and what you are about. Anything you say is meaningless; any bet you make will be disregarded.

Let's just talk football from here on out.

 

don, welcome back!

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

nope, not inconsistent at all. i was pointing out to walt that you cannot base predictions based on past performances. for example, muhammed. not sure why that was hard for you but i'll be nice and explain it for you and not say anything more about it

 

the running games of all four teams are about even going into the season. each team's homers will make a case for their team having some sort of mythical advantage over the other three. there will be surprises this year in the division just like there were last year. and some of them will be pleasant surprises and some of them not so pleasant, depending on which side of the bleachers one is sitting on

 

You have tried this before...and it failed.

 

You do this all the time....you blast others for using statistics from previous years....then do the same exact thing....spin it and end up in the denial you are in here.

 

You used Kevin Jone's last 8 games of 2004 several times over the past few days as being indicative of what he will do this season.

 

Everyone else sees this double standard....yet here you go....

 

polls mean nothing this time of year. no one knows squat right now. i seem to remember you bear fans getting all bent out of shape last year because of the scientific polls showing 90 percent of fans outside the nfcn predicted crappiness for the bears.

 

so what? thomas jones certainly hasn't been consistently good--or even decent--for any stretch of time in his career and benson is a big ??? you can say the bears have an advantage there all you want. it means nothing in april.

 

And yet again....

 

Polls mean nothing this time of year?

 

Remind me who it was who posted something about someone thinking Kitna was the best of the division?

[swamp dog 0]

You have tried this before...and it failed.

 

You do this all the time....you blast others for using statistics from previous years....then do the same exact thing....spin it and end up in the denial you are in here.

 

You used Kevin Jone's last 8 games of 2004 several times over the past few days as being indicative of what he will do this season.

 

Everyone else sees this double standard....yet here you go....

And yet again....

 

Polls mean nothing this time of year?

 

Remind me who it was who posted something about someone thinking Kitna was the best of the division?

 

it wasn't my poll, it was a link--and i said i didn't agree with it (especially the favre part).

 

was it good entertainment? sure it was. other than that, it means nothing. still have to play the games on the field.

[Torque666 0]

Chuck Norris doesnt sleep... He waits.

[swamp dog 0]

per KFFL

 

Lions | Rogers wants to be in better shape

Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:30:26 -0700

 

Larry Lage, of the Associated Press, reports Detroit Lions WR Charles Rogers has played at about 220 pounds in the NFL but said he wants to enter next season about 20 pounds lighter, with the sleeker body type he had at Michigan State. He said he also wants to shed the image that doubters have of him as a lackluster player in practice. "I just have to keep working hard to prove them wrong," Rogers said.

 

 

Lions | Williams says Marinelli directed some comments at him

Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:25:11 -0700

 

Larry Lage, of the Associated Press, reports Detroit Lions WR Mike Williams said new Lions' head coach Rod Marinelli only looked at him as he delivered part of his stern message at the start of minicamp Tuesday, April 11. "'I don't want you to be late, and I don't want you to be overweight,' and he looked right at me," Williams recalled. Marinelli "just wants me to be the player I was before I came here," Williams said. Williams played at 239 pounds last year. He said he's 230 now and hopes to look more like the 212-pound WR Roy E. Williams. "I'm trying to catch Roy. I've got best going because everybody thinks I'll be 225," Mike Williams said. Williams said he was late to one meeting last season but said reports indicated he missed 15 or 20.

[Baby Jesus 0]

This thread is fucking awesome.

[LunaTick 29]

This thread is fucking awesome.

 

Dude, how did this not censored?

[swamp dog 0]

marinelli says martz walks the hallways at the allen park facility shouting "touchdown, lions!" at the top of his lungs. funny shiat.

 

and the word on the street is that marinelli closed the mini-camp to the media so the "coaches could be themselves." sort of like the lawyers leaving the interrogation room so the prisoners can be tortured

[DrJ 0]

marinelli says martz walks the hallways at the allen park facility shouting "touchdown, lions!" at the top of his lungs. funny shiat.

 

and the word on the street is that marinelli closed the mini-camp to the media so the "coaches could be themselves." sort of like the lawyers leaving the interrogation room so the prisoners can be tortured

 

I was figuring it was so that we wouldn't have 20 pieces about what a lazy POS BMW still is. This way he can feed you the BS that he wants to feed you, instead of getting the actual truth. And Lions fans like yourself can eat it up with a spoon.

[slash 0]

it wasn't my poll, it was a link--and i said i didn't agree with it (especially the favre part).

 

was it good entertainment? sure it was. other than that, it means nothing. still have to play the games on the field.

 

 

as much as i want to agree with you, I cant. in reality polls and opinions dont count, since they are not a fact. But without them there will be no love of the sport nor this website for people to express their opinions in statements or Polls. They can end up being right or wrong. so the question is the people who are expressing their opinions, how far would they go to back it up?

 

And if someone tends to have the right opinion more often then others, then his view would be held higher...

[Parja 0]

but lost bennett

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. Getting rid of Bennett would have been an improvement to the Vikings backfield if he was their only RB.

[swamp dog 0]

I was figuring it was so that we wouldn't have 20 pieces about what a lazy POS BMW still is. This way he can feed you the BS that he wants to feed you, instead of getting the actual truth. And Lions fans like yourself can eat it up with a spoon.

 

ah, somebody's still grumpy why iz you so unhappy, drj? smile. help an old lady across the street. volunteer to work an afternoon in a soup kitchen. any or all of the above will help you take your mind off your unahappiness and make the world a better place at the same time.

 

win win!

[Walter34 3]

This old thread ....

 

 

Here's a few quotes from back in early april or so. Guess who:

 

the running games of all four teams are about even going into the season. each team's homers will make a case for their team having some sort of mythical advantage over the other three. there will be surprises this year in the division just like there were last year. and some of them will be pleasant surprises and some of them not so pleasant, depending on which side of the bleachers one is sitting on

 

there is simply no justification for giving the bears a "clear" point advantage

 

mike furrey=sleep of the year

- This one is actually Eawer. Nice call so far.

 

probably roy, mike, charles, corey, vines...drummond really is just a kr. i also feel there's a strong possibility charles isn't on the opening day roster if the early reports of his "effort" in mini-camp are true. thus, bradford ends up being #3. not saying that's a good thing...but it's most likely reality.

 

and if mike doesn't come around? bradford could be #2

 

not writing mike off yet (as the other thread can attest )...just saying.

 

How things have changed. Charles gone and MW has dressed for only 2 games and still has zero catches. Corey dropped and Vines on the PUP list all year. Roy, Furrey and Hakim is the current list - what a mess. Might be time to write Mike off ...

 

And for the current rankings:

 

QB (20)	Depth	Grade
	
Chi -	15 
GB  -	13
Det -	11
Min -	12
	
RB (15)		
	
Chi -	14
GB  -	9
Det -	11
Min -	 13
	
WR/TE (10)		
	
Chi -	8 (Berrian and Clark emerge)
GB  -   7 (Jennings breaks out as a rook) 
Det -   5 
Min -	4 Williamson disappointing
	
OL (20)		
	
Chi -	15
GB  -	7 (horrible)
Det -	7
Min -	14
	
DL (20)		
	
Chi -	17 (best in league - Harris is the D MVP so far)
GB  -	12
Det -	11
Min -	14 
	
LB (10)		
	
Chi -	9
GB  -	4
Det -	5
Min -	3
	
DB (10)		
	
Chi -	8
GB  -	4
Det -	4
Min -	7
	
ST (5)		
	
Chi -	5 Huge improvement for Chi)
GB  -	3
Det -	2
Min -	4 (Longwell and KRs improved this unit)
	
C/GM (20)		
	
Chi -	15
GB  -	8
Det -	7
Min -	10

Tough 1st year for all 3 newbies, but Childress seems to be heading in the right direction. 

Totals:

Chi - 106
Minn - 81
GB - 67
Det - 64

[Parja 0]

4/10 for GBs DBs? That seems a little generous.

[swamp dog 0]

hey, i haven't watched the lions in weeks.

 

go tigers

 

 

feel free to write whomever you want to write off, walter. knock yourself out you silly dart-throwing canuck.

[Walter34 3]

hey, i haven't watched the lions in weeks.

 

go tigers

feel free to write whomever you want to write off, walter. knock yourself out you silly dart-throwing canuck.

 

Best of luck on whatever baseball board you hang out on now. And you are not fooling anyone - we all know you were itching to post when the Lions were up 17-3. You had the post written and was ready to hit submit, but decided to wait and then ... it all came crumbling down.

 

Our sig bet is actually almost a dead heat between Muhammed and Furrey. As for everything else, you might as well come clean and just proclaim all bear fans as the winners of every argument that you have had over the years.

 

[SmartassBoiler 0]

hey, i haven't watched the lions in weeks.

 

What a great fan you are. Weeks huh? That means you gave up after week 2 or 3?

[DrJ 0]

I can see this is going to be a fun season again - what's the over/under for welchdog running off crying? I'm going to say November 5th.

 

Wow, I was off. He's already given up and it's barely October.

 

Only 6 months left to go before Millen is a draft guru again.

[remote controller 136]

Wow, I was off. He's already given up and it's barely October.

 

Only 6 months left to go before Millen is a draft guru again.

 

 

Wrong Doc!!!! This time it was suppose to be the M&Ms. This coaching staff was to be the difference.

 

Millen used to be the genius but these two were going to manage his genius on the field!!!!

 

 

 

Oh.......Swamp.......The Pack is 1-4 and you'll never catch me selling them out. There are Fans and frauds....which are you?

[DrJ 0]

What I really don't understand, is how someone could spend 6 friggin months drooling over every offseason move - getting all behind the coaching staff, loving the draft, the new players, yadda yadda and then not even pay attention to the product on the field when it gets there.

 

Seriously, what's the point of being an offseason fan?

 

Furthermore, how can you comment on how great their next offseason is if you haven't even watched the team?

[donhaas 18]

As for the current rankings: I don't know how you can call the Packer offensive line horrible. They've had 3 different 100 yard rushers already (2 of them no-names) and have been protecting Brett pretty well.

 

That being said, I don't know how the Packer RBs can be ranked that low either.

 

DB ranking is about right. Linebackers seem low.

[Sho Nuff 720]

		
RB (15)		
	
Chi -	14
GB  -	9
Det -	11
Min -	 13
	
OL (20)		
	
Chi -	15
GB  -	7 (horrible)
Det -	7
Min -	14

 

Just to revisit those rankings...well...these 2 in particular.

 

The 2 lowest rated even at that point were Det and Green Bay. But...lets look at it...

C. Taylor 8 games, 173 carries...708 yards...4.1 per carry...2 TDs

T. Jones 8 games, 159 carries...612 yards...3.8 per carry...3TDs

K. Jones 8 games, 136 carries...584 yards...4.3 per carry...6TDs

A. Green 6 games, 120 carries...561 yards...4.7 per carry...3 TDs

 

Pretty close...and Green is that close with 2 fewer games.

 

And with that...the line...

Green Bay...118.9 yards per game rushing...4.3 yards per carry...11 sacks allowed

Minny...109.5 yards per game rushing...4.1 yards per carry...18 sacks allowed

Chicago...104.3 yards per game rushing...3.4 yards per carry...12 sacks allowed

Detroit...85.6 yards per game rushing...4.2 yards per carry...26 sacks allowed

 

Time to rethink the rankings a bit? Yes, I know those are not the only stats important to an Oline...but the lines are not as far apart as they once looked.

[Walter34 3]

Just to revisit those rankings...well...these 2 in particular.

 

The 2 lowest rated even at that point were Det and Green Bay. But...lets look at it...

C. Taylor 8 games, 173 carries...708 yards...4.1 per carry...2 TDs

T. Jones 8 games, 159 carries...612 yards...3.8 per carry...3TDs

K. Jones 8 games, 136 carries...584 yards...4.3 per carry...6TDs

A. Green 6 games, 120 carries...561 yards...4.7 per carry...3 TDs

 

Pretty close...and Green is that close with 2 fewer games.

 

And with that...the line...

Green Bay...118.9 yards per game rushing...4.3 yards per carry...11 sacks allowed

Minny...109.5 yards per game rushing...4.1 yards per carry...18 sacks allowed

Chicago...104.3 yards per game rushing...3.4 yards per carry...12 sacks allowed

Detroit...85.6 yards per game rushing...4.2 yards per carry...26 sacks allowed

 

Time to rethink the rankings a bit? Yes, I know those are not the only stats important to an Oline...but the lines are not as far apart as they once looked.

 

There is alot more that go into numbers - game situations, down and distances, protection, various other factors. For Chi, really not sure why they havent rushed better overall. Partly it is because of the emergence of a passing game, partly becaused Ds key on TJ instead of Rex. In GB obviously, no D would ignore Favre to focus on the run.

 

Food for thought though - the rankings were based on beliefs and facts we knew at the time. Times change. The Bears Wrs and TEs and QBs would all get better grades now than they did then.

[Sho Nuff 720]

There is alot more that go into numbers - game situations, down and distances, protection, various other factors. For Chi, really not sure why they havent rushed better overall. Partly it is because of the emergence of a passing game, partly becaused Ds key on TJ instead of Rex. In GB obviously, no D would ignore Favre to focus on the run.

 

Food for thought though - the rankings were based on beliefs and facts we knew at the time. Times change. The Bears Wrs and TEs and QBs would all get better grades now than they did then.

 

No D would ignore Favre? Funny...most Ds are playing up...because all the Packers are doing is running and throwing the short routes. We have no true deep threat.... But that is also why sacks are kept down...short routes...short quick drops and reads...

 

I agree with your last point. Just interesting to see. Minny spent so much to bring in Hutch and their line is marginally better. They average about the same yards per pass play as Green Bay...fewer yards per carry...and have given up more sacks.

 

The rushing is what makes me happy about Green Bay's line...I think its taking a step in the right direction...finally.