Why don't more teams let the clock expire on draft day?

[ROCKET 0]

Assuming a team has 2 players grading out the same and would be content grabbing either one then why not let the clock expire and save some $$? I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often in the first round when dropping down a spot can save alot of $$ for a team. I'm guessing that the agents and players association would try and close this loophole if it got abused and most teams are'nt willing to rock the boat. It seems like there must be some type of unwritten gentlemens agreement that you just don't do it and the Vikings stepped over that line.

[Datathief 0]

Because they want their fans to buy tickets so they dont go bankrupt.

[ROCKET 0]

I think that depends on the management and their relationship with the fans. If Belichik and Pioli did it and said they had 2 guys slotted evenly I don't see the fans beating them up over it. Now if Matt Millen did it that might be another story. Some GM's and teams would be more reluctant to do it as opposed to others from a pr standpoint. Any fan with half a brain wouldn't hold it against a GM as it's good for the teams cap to pay less to your first rounder.

[t.j 35]

Another problem is the player you get a pick later will want to get paid like he was the draft pick you had originally. So at the very least, it adds animosity to the contract negotiations.

 

Also, once you let your time pass, you lose control somewhat of when you get your pick in. Let's say you had the top 2 remaining players on your board rated evenly (which I bet is very rare), and you wait for the team after you to pick. Then it's a race between you and the next team up to pick.

[toofunny 0]

Assuming a team has 2 players grading out the same and would be content grabbing either one then why not let the clock expire and save some $$? I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often in the first round when dropping down a spot can save alot of $$ for a team. I'm guessing that the agents and players association would try and close this loophole if it got abused and most teams are'nt willing to rock the boat. It seems like there must be some type of unwritten gentlemens agreement that you just don't do it and the Vikings stepped over that line.

 

You've got to be kidding right?

 

First of all, you must have remembered how quickly the next few picks went. You risk missing out on the player you want.

 

Secondly, time ran out because Tice is a moron. It wasn't a strategy.

 

Third, the player is going to demand money for the slot he was suppose to be taken.

 

Fourth, the amount of money you save is negligible. If you need to fake out draft picks in order to save $2 over 5 years, then you need to sell your franchise and move to arena football.

[nobody 2,044]

Third, the player is going to demand money for the slot he was suppose to be taken.

 

Fourth, the amount of money you save is negligible. If you need to fake out draft picks in order to save $2 over 5 years, then you need to sell your franchise and move to arena football.

 

 

First, the argument of the player asking to get paid for the slot he "should" have been taken is bunk.

 

Second, the difference in salary from one pick to the next first in the first 10 is substantial.

 

Third, you are right about the fast picks thing and Tice being a moron.

[toofunny 0]

First, the argument of the player asking to get paid for the slot he "should" have been taken is bunk.

 

Second, the difference in salary from one pick to the next first in the first 10 is substantial.

 

Third, you are right about the fast picks thing and Tice being a moron.

 

I don't believe so. KEVIN WILLIAMS I'm fairly sure got 7th pick money.

 

The amount of money is not a huge deal. It's spread over 5 years anyway.

 

Not to mention, I'm fairly sure Williams got 7th spot money (I believe he was the one they waited on).

 

"But give Vikings management credit for this: At least this time around, Minnesota didn't compound its faux pas by butchering the subsequent contract negotiations.

 

ESPN.com has learned that the Vikings reached contract agreement Thursday evening with first-round defensive tackle Kevin Williams, the ninth player selected overall, and avoided the kind of acrimony and holdout that marked their 2002 negotiations. Last year, first-round pick Bryant McKinnie held out for nearly 100 days, and the former University of Miami offensive tackle missed virtually half his rookie campaign.

 

Minnesota officials were determined such an impasse would not occur again and ensured that by making a very aggressive proposal to Williams and agents Ken Kremer and Tom Condon, and then agreeing with the onetime Oklahoma State star on an impressive deal."

 

I believe they tried to screw the previous pick, and this time gave the guy 7th pick money.

[nobody 2,044]

I went and looked it up

 

7. Byron Leftwich 4.2 first year, 8.4 second year

8. Jordan Gross 5.9 first year, 5.8 second year

9. Kevin Williams 4.8 first year, 4.2 second year

10. Terrell Suggs 3.1 first year, 4.5 second year

 

so total over their first two years

 

7. 12.6 mil

8. 11.7 mil

9. 9.0 mil

10. 7.6 mil

[LunaTick 29]

I went and looked it up

 

7. Byron Leftwich 4.2 first year, 8.4 second year

8. Jordan Gross 5.9 first year, 5.8 second year

9. Kevin Williams 4.8 first year, 4.2 second year

10. Terrell Suggs 3.1 first year, 4.5 second year

 

so total over their first two years

 

7. 12.6 mil

8. 11.7 mil

9. 9.0 mil

10. 7.6 mil

 

 

It is a dumb stupid strategy,very stupid and the logic incredibly absent minded of the reality

 

The reality that every fan from every team, every media guy from every organization is going to disrespect your organization.

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr.../wilkening3.htm

 

But more importantly is the trouble you incur on yourself.

 

s the longest by an NFL first-round draft choice since 2002, when offensive tackle Bryant McKinnie didn't sign with the Minnesota Vikings until early November.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...25/ai_n15341077

 

With McKinnie, MN I don't believe saved any money

Did not have service of their first round pick, who could have started the season, until late into the season.

All of this cause McKinnie expected to get paid the amount he should have gotten.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 37]

If your contention is correct, it's hard to believe that the Vikes front office would be so inept as to not be able to move down a few spots and pick up and extra 6th or SOMETHING. So intentional or unintentional, they were equally inept and got a lot of bad PR out of it. BTW, the bad PR is more proof of the complete ineptitude.

 

HTH

[Raider 84 29]

I don't get it. They have their players ranked and would move down and gain additional picks rather than letting the clock run out. No team besides the Vikings are going to do that.

[Ravens 03 0]

You've got to be kidding right?

 

First of all, you must have remembered how quickly the next few picks went. You risk missing out on the player you want.

 

Secondly, time ran out because Tice is a moron. It wasn't a strategy.

 

Third, the player is going to demand money for the slot he was suppose to be taken.

 

Fourth, the amount of money you save is negligible. If you need to fake out draft picks in order to save $2 over 5 years, then you need to sell your franchise and move to arena football.

 

Ravens almost got Leftwich instead of focking Kyle Bollere that year.

 

Viqueens were asses and Ravens ALMOST had a franchise QB.

[ROCKET 0]

The $$ is substantial, especially in the top 10 so there is a gain out of doing it. I'll admit there is bad pr but this is just a hypothetical scenario based solely on saving some cap space when a team would be happy with either of 2 players. As far as trading down one spot, of course you would do that if you could but this whole scenario is based on a team not being able to trade down 1 spot and having only 2 (not more then 2 as they could trade down 2+ spots like they always do) players rated evenly. Then we have the first come first served problem, If I'm the team that let the clock out I already have someone standing next to the commish with 2 cards in hand and hand one in the second the team in front of me picks. Now if the next team to pick is sitting there then how does the league award the pick if 2 teams have cards handed to the commish simultaneously?

[Chronic Husker 85]

Any team that was going to do that could trade down and get more out of the deal, anyway.

 

When reading this thread, please take into account the fact that ROCKET once queried as to why Randy Johnson can't just start 162 games a year.

[t.j 35]

I went and looked it up

 

7. Byron Leftwich 4.2 first year, 8.4 second year

8. Jordan Gross 5.9 first year, 5.8 second year

9. Kevin Williams 4.8 first year, 4.2 second year

10. Terrell Suggs 3.1 first year, 4.5 second year

 

so total over their first two years

 

7. 12.6 mil

8. 11.7 mil

9. 9.0 mil

10. 7.6 mil

 

That's practically meaningless. All you need to know is signing bonus, years, and total $

[mozzy84 0]

this whole idea is

[LunaTick 29]

I don't get it. They have their players ranked and would move down and gain additional picks rather than letting the clock run out. No team besides the Vikings are going to do that.

 

 

The Vikings in 2002 were running with new ship and drafting crew.

Lack of experience had a lot to do with it. Meaning knowing when to take the walk and ignore the phones

 

In 2003 they were trying to trade down and waited to long to cut things off before going to the potium.

 

 

Honestly, (to the original poster) if this was any good of an idea. It would be imployed at will.

 

 

On trading down, you are only going to do this if, 1. you have a trading partner. 2. are not being taken for a sucker.

 

 

Honestly, how often can you force a trade with a compotent player in FF.

[Captian America 0]

I posted somehing like this below last year. The NFL should set a price for the draft for instance.

 

1st Round Players : $4,000,000 a year for 3 years

 

2nd Round Players : $3,500,000 a year for 3 years

 

3rd Round Players : $3,000,000 a year for 3 years

 

4th Round Players : $2,500,000 a year for 3 years

 

5th Round Players : $2,000,000 a year for 3 years

 

6th Round Players : $1,000,000 a year for 3 years

 

7th Round Players : $ 750,000 a year for 3 years

 

The rest of the draft $ 500,000 a year for 3 years

 

What this does is have a set price for the players which would end hold outs, let the NFL teams know how much money they would have to set aside for the rookies and know how much money they can spend on free agency. I know the owners wouldn't complain and I don't think the players' association would either. I'm sure alot of those veteran players don't like the fact that a kid fresh out of college who never took a snap in the NFL will be paid twice as much or more than what they are being paid. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if you been working at a place for almost 10 years and they bring in a new worker and give him double of what you make. After all these kids just came out of college they don't need all that money. Also they wouldn't need an agent for 3 years.

[Portis26 0]

Secondly, time ran out because Tice is a moron. It wasn't a strategy.

 

[49ER MAN 0]

Ravens almost got Leftwich instead of focking Kyle Bollere that year.

 

Viqueens were asses and Ravens ALMOST had a franchise QB.

 

If I remember correctly, wasn't there some kind of communication problems between those 2 teams? I thought the Vikes were trying to confirm a trade with the Ravens and their phone lines were tied up or something to that effect?

[goodwj 0]

pretty sure k wills agent negotiated like he was the pick we originally had so we didnt really save any money.

 

and us fans we getting furoius as suggs passed and we picked k will instead of robertson, but it panned out an we were all happy with the pick.

[toofunny 0]

If I remember correctly, wasn't there some kind of communication problems between those 2 teams? I thought the Vikes were trying to confirm a trade with the Ravens and their phone lines were tied up or something to that effect?

 

As I remember, the Ravens had an intern deliver a polished rock to Tice 60 seconds before the pick was due.

[ROCKET 0]

Any team that was going to do that could trade down and get more out of the deal, anyway.

 

When reading this thread, please take into account the fact that ROCKET once queried as to why Randy Johnson can't just start 162 games a year.

 

 

 

 

 

It wasn't 162 games in a year it was 7 games in a 7 game playoff series so get your story straight. There was a series where they had only 2 starting pitchers go 7 games so it's not that far-fetched. I still don't find it a super-human effort to see someone throw 90-100 piches for 7 games with a day or two/three of rest in between. It's throwing a focking baseball for crying out loud. A reliever throws 20-30 pitches night in and night out and that's throwing nothing but heat most of the time. Lance Armstrong can ride a frigin bike 100+ miles a day up and down mountains for 2 weeks straight and a guy can't throw 700 pitches in a week and a half to 2 weeks? Give me a focking break. MLB sucks anyways and I'm sorry for even talking about that crapass sport here but Chronic Knobslobber brought up a ? I brought up about the over paid, steroid freak pansies who play it.

[t.j 35]

It wasn't 162 games in a year it was 7 games in a 7 game playoff series so get your story straight. There was a series where they had only 2 starting pitchers go 7 games so it's not that far-fetched.

 

Yes, it is that far-fetched. You're clueless.

[ROCKET 0]

Ok whatever, throwing a baseball is so strenuous on the body and no other sports create that much impact or require so much stamina from the human body in such a short amount of time. It's totally impossible for the human arm to throw a ball 700 times in 2 weeks without completely falling off especially when it has 4-5 months to heal up afterwards. It is however possible to throw a ball 400+ times in a 2 week span provided you have 3 days rest in between outings. Anyone with any slight knowledge of physics and a medical degree can tell you unequivicably that it's impossible to throw anymore. Congrats, you proved your point.

[Cowboy14 0]

I skipped through most of the middle of this thread but your not dropping down in the draft. Your just taking longer to make your pick. Which is the argument any good agent would make for his player. The difference in money can be based on several factors. A qb going at 7 is going to get a lot more then a dt who goes next. Not to mention the players desire to sign and the philosophy of the front office. My opinion is that they were trying to trade down and couldn't get something worked out. Factor in that Tice is a bit challenged and you get what happened.

[Deadpool 0]

It wasn't 162 games in a year it was 7 games in a 7 game playoff series so get your story straight. There was a series where they had only 2 starting pitchers go 7 games so it's not that far-fetched. I still don't find it a super-human effort to see someone throw 90-100 piches for 7 games with a day or two/three of rest in between. It's throwing a focking baseball for crying out loud. A reliever throws 20-30 pitches night in and night out and that's throwing nothing but heat most of the time. Lance Armstrong can ride a frigin bike 100+ miles a day up and down mountains for 2 weeks straight and a guy can't throw 700 pitches in a week and a half to 2 weeks? Give me a focking break. MLB sucks anyways and I'm sorry for even talking about that crapass sport here but Chronic Knobslobber brought up a ? I brought up about the over paid, steroid freak pansies who play it.

 

 

Obviously, you've never tried this before have you?

 

Tell you what, go outside on a nice day and find someone to catch you behind home plate. Now, I want you to throw these different pitches in this order...Fastball, Fastball, Curveball, Fastball, Change-up. (if you don't know how to throw these, I will elaborate if you like). Now keep throwing in that order until you reach 75 pitches.

 

Go home, and get up the next day and do it again....... And again the next day.

 

My point is here is that you will learn that pitching puts a tremendous amount of stress on your elbow, shoulder, wrist, and arm. Its an unatural motion for our arms to consistently being moving over our head. Our arms are designed to swing under our shoulder, not over. You would be surprised at the amount of conditioning that a good starting pitcher must endure in order to be successfull.

 

Yeah, guys ratchet it up during the playoffs and try to go on fewer days rest. But for someone to start every game in a seven game series is just absurd. He would basically be worthless by the 3rd inning of Game 2.

 

Relief pitchers are able to go out and pitch 15-30 pitches no problem and do it again the next day if needed, but they can't do it more than 2 days in a row. They have to rest a day or so to get their endurance back up.

 

 

Sorry if this is off-topic. I just wanted to explain it to you so you would understand a little bit better. Because obviously you have no idea what it takes.

[ROCKET 0]

I understand fully the stress of throwing a ball 90+ mph puts on a human arm as believe it or not I have played plenty of baseball. I also understand that a MLB player isn't going to pitch a complete 7 game series out of concern of injury to his arm. The whole ? I initially asked was COULD it be done? I still believe there are plenty of pitchers with the right physical makeup and mechanics to do it. Do I think it will be done, no. I have no doubt in my mind it could be done and this whole arguement that it's impossible to do is bogus. It's not like I'm asking if a boxer could go 12 rounds in a title fight 7 times in 2 weeks

[nobody 2,044]

That's practically meaningless. All you need to know is signing bonus, years, and total $

 

 

I disagree. They report a contract based on the maximum achievable salary. I'm telling you what they actually got paid, and it shows that Kevin Williams was paid as the 9th pick and not the 7th pick.

 

I still think it's unwise to just let the clock go, but not because you the team still pays the player for their original draft position because it's obviously not true.

[LunaTick 29]

I disagree. They report a contract based on the maximum achievable salary. I'm telling you what they actually got paid, and it shows that Kevin Williams was paid as the 9th pick and not the 7th pick.

 

I still think it's unwise to just let the clock go, but not because you the team still pays the player for their original draft position because it's obviously not true.

 

But what was Mckinnie paid as?

 

When did he signed the deal?

 

You are are forgetting this happened twice. And was done only by 1 team and never duplicated.

I think that should clue all of this strategy right here and now.