C-Pep and Palmer

[VaTerp 0]

There have been several posts on here, and really everywhere, about how great C-Pep and Palmer are looking in their rehabs. From a FF perspective, Im hopeful that both will be close to 100% to start the season as some reports have suggested.

 

But, I was under the impression that ACL type injuries took almost a year to rehab and then another year to be back to full strength. Such was the case with Edge a few years ago. I also remember Jerry Rice pushing to get on the field after his knee injury only to hurt another part of his knee most likley from coming back too soon.

 

I know that Qb's dont put as much pressure on the knee as Rb's and Wr's but knee stability is still very important obviously for mobile Qb's but also just in terms of stepping up in the pocket, delivering passes, and eluding the pass rush.

 

My question is does anybody out there, who is not as medically ignorant as myself, know about any breakthroughs in surgical procedures are rehabs that have been made in the last few years? Im sure theres something but Im wondering if anyone has any real info on it.

 

It is becoming very important to me as I work through my QB rankings. I think the competition for the #2 Qb is wide open and, if healthy, C-Pep and Palmer are certainly righ there.

 

Despite all the reports and the fact that Im a big fan of both Qb's, Im nervous about ranking these guys so high. Especially considering that one guy just tore his knee in January and the other guy tore all three major knee ligaments.

 

Doctor, surgeon, or rehab specialist in the house?

[Da Bomb 0]

im no specialist, but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night. but seriously, i did just tear my acl in february and have been seeing all sorts of doctors and specialists, so i at least have a good idea how this stuff works.

 

i cant speak for culpepper. he tore everything in the knee, and i know that has to be a lot more devastating. palmer, far as i know, tore his acl and i think thats it.

 

i tore my acl on february 24. you have to wait like 3 weeks to have surgery generally, while the swelling goes down, and i ended up having surgery on march 31 to replace the acl and repair the meniscus damage.

 

since then, starting the monday after the weekend surgery, i have been going to a 90-minute rehab session 3 times a week, along with (at least supposed to be) doing my own leg exercises and what not on my own each day. im a grad student, and im lazy, so we'll say im putting about 10% of the effort into rehabbing that palmer or culpepper is.

 

anyhow, 2 months after the surgery, my leg was back up to pretty full strength in the muscles, and i am allowed to work back into aerobic shape. they said that at 3 months, i will be able to be jogging, 4 months for sprinting and some lateral movement. then at 6 months -- that means october 1 for me -- my acl and knee is supposed to be 100% healthy. i wont be in 100% shape yet, and it should take about a year to get up to 95%. but the point is that for me, a college student non-athlete, i am fully healthy at 6 months and can play football, basketball, or anything like normal. my knee is healthy and ready for everything normal then, and its just a matter of me getting into shape after that and getting it back to normal.

 

point being... carson palmer should be a month or two ahead of my pace, and doing rehab / getting into shape is his job. i would say that by week 6 -- mid october, the week after their bye week -- he should be pretty much fine. i will have no hesitation to use a pick on him this year.

[VaTerp 0]

Thanks for the info DB.

 

Anyone else?

[jockdoc 0]

Ortho PT/ Athletic Trainer in the house.

VaTerp is pretty right on with most "aggressive" doctor's approaches to the general public.

Other things to consider are 1)previous fitness level, I'm guessing that these professional athletes might be in better shape than most of us watching from our couches. 2)Access to rehab facilities, general public gets three times/week cause that's what insurance pays, college and pro athletes can get rehab 7days/week sometimes twice/day, 3)Money is a big factor, I'm sure most people reading this aren't costing their employers 6 figures/week to sit on the sidelines, big motivating factor. With this all being said, coming back from these injuries 6 months or so after SURGERY isn't unrealistic. QB's usually don't have to make cuts and take the pounding like RB's do, but I wouldn't expect them to be the same as last season due to confidence in the injured knee.

FF wise I think you also have to take into consideration the teams these QB's are on. Palmer has always been a pocket QB, nothing will change, O-line is pretty good. C-Pep on the other hand did struggle some last year before the injury, also he is a big QB and some of his fantasy value was his ability to scamble for TD's, I personally will question that ability THIS year, he is also on a new team and will have adjustments to make that Palmer won't.

I'm more concerned with Drew Brees's FF value, he is on a new team, very questionable O-line and is recovering from a torn labrum, similar to the meniscus (cartilage) in the knee. The big problem here is the labrum helps stabilize the shoulder and I'm guessing that especially less than one year post surgery, if he takes a big hit from behind while he is throwing, his shoulder may be likely to dislocate (worst case senario, of course). Shoulder strength is a big issue too for making crisp passes for out patterns, etc.

So to rap it up, Palmer is the only QB out of this group I would consider at this point without actually seeing them on the field.

[Erb047 0]

Youre on crack if you consider Culp for that #2 spot. Palmer MAYBE....Maybe he gets it. If he is healthy he will put up #2 QB numbers IMO. Good post Jockdoc....

 

Anyways, my #2 QB right now is Brady.

[shovelheadt 62]

You guys need to frequent bengals.com for Palmer news. Tons of articles detailing every step of his rehab. Marvin's latest is that he is now where they thought he'd be in August. He's cleared him to play in a predetermined game in the preseason. The only way this changes is if Palmer backs himself off.

 

He went full go in 11 on 11 drills as well as the no huddle a couple of days ago.

[LunaTick 29]

Few other thoughts about "why the news" on these guys.

Is it:

1. to sell season tickets

2. to sell jersey"s

3. PR, postive spin to keep fans interested in their product. Feed the frenzy

4. to keep the press at bay

5. to throw off the teams within their division.

 

Now my thoughts on Culpepper.

My thoughts on his return is less scientific and more about reflection on his style of play.

For him to come back and start any games this season. Dolphins will need to convert him to a pocket passer. Probably consider focusing on a no huddle game plan. Throw in a quick 3 step drop delivery. Meaning, don't give the other side a chance at getting to CPep.

However, Cpepp has never been known for quickly reading the field. But rather tracking his receiver from the huddle. I only recall a few times where he didn't tell his receiver.

I would be more interested on hearing if they have been working on this.

 

For if they havn't. I would wait until about QB, say 14, has been taken. Then draft him as my #2.

 

Reason, Dante's means of keeping a defense honest is his escapability. Rush threat. And his ability to stay standing after being hit by a LB at full speed.

 

Question for the Trainer. Would you expect Dante to be able to take those kind of hits.

 

I don't expect Miami will let him QB sneak.

They will want to avoid the QB boot and scramble.

But can he survive the blitz.

[nos23 1]

these guys heal alot faster than we do. they are going in hyperbaric chambers and getting the best theraphy possible. i believe that both c pep and palmer will be ready to go by week one.

[jockdoc 0]

C-Pep is an amazing athlete for his size, NFL.com has him listed at 6-4, 264lbs, I thought he was at least 10lbs more. I think his mobility and R. Moss were a big part of what made him a great FF QB in Sota. Will he be able to take a hit, sure if it's above the waist. He will be wearing a knee brace for at least one year, that will help protect his knee, but it won't prevent another injury if a 300lb+ lineman rolls on it.

IMO FF wise he is a big risk, with potential for big reward. Which C-Pep will we see this year, the one from 2004 who would have been league MVP if it weren't for P. Manning, or the one who couldn't figure out which team to throw to like last year. Being on a new team with a new system and new teammates is another consideration. I'm thinkin late round draft pick as a #2 QB, definately more of a risk than Palmer.

[Parja 0]

C-Pep is an amazing athlete for his size, NFL.com has him listed at 6-4, 264lbs, I thought he was at least 10lbs more.

 

Actually, I heard a while ago he's down to somewhere in the 230-240 range. He dropped some weight to put less stress on the knee.

[Zackattack 0]

230 seems very light for him. It is not inpossible but maybe 240 is more likely. We will see. From the pics and clips of have seen I would say he is smaller but not that much.

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

Brunell blows.

[jockdoc 0]

C-Pep Stats

Here's a link to NFL.com, I'm just goin by what I read...

[DaveJ 0]

For what its worth, since they have not actually seen REAL action yet..

 

C-Pep tore up his knee pretty badly. Part of his resume was throwing on the run, scrambling and running when needing to and scored a handful of TD's rushing each year. His injury will have more impact on him than on Palmer is pretty much a pocket passer with the ability to move around well. C-Pep will have a longer adjustment period and will have to rely more on his arm and pass protection now and in the next year or so than ever before. His arm is still strong and he has good targets downfield so he stands a good chance of doing well, despite the injury. 2004 form though?? Not this year.....

 

Palmers injury, while severe, was limited impact due to the knee he injured. It was his pivot knee, not his planting knee. Wearing a brace will not impact him, though his accuracy may be affected for awhile until he adjusts and learns that his knee will hold up in game play.

 

Even a major injury like a ruptured achilles (Marino) can be overcome if the other skills are there. Palmer clearly has the QB skillset needed to succeed after such an injury, while C-Pep is still up to debate as when he was healthy, he showed some signs of mechanical issues.

 

Bottom line is that both of these guys may be ready for the season opener, but their play will likely be subpar well into the season.

[norseman 0]

I have no medical expertise whatsoever, so this is sort of off your topic, but I would urge extreme caution in drafting Culpepper. When everything is going well around him, he's an imposing QB. When things start to go wrong, however, he tends to fall apart. He seems to be an extremely sensitive guy, and if his confidence is shaken, he doesn't perform well. Coupled with his recovery from such a serious injury, I'd say that makes him a very, very questionable prospect this year. There is certainly a chance that (1) the move to the Dolphins will benefit him and (2) he'll recover well enough to play effectively this year, but I think both happening is a very long shot.

 

My two cents.