scoring question

[Super Cubs 134]

If Reggie Bush returns a punt for a TD. Does the Bush fantasy owner get credit for the TD as well as the NO ST/Def owner? Or do the point just go to the ST/Def?

[Cleaver08 0]

The Saints D/ST would get credit...not the guy that started Bush at RB.

[Mephisto 15]

In my league, both get the score.

 

I think it's stupid that an individual player can score a touchdown and the owner who owns him not get credit it for it. It's ludicrous.

 

If you don't like the double-dip - then eliminate the DST from your roster requirements. If you want the DST in your roster requirements - give them the score AND the individual player the score.

[KSB2424 3,087]

If Reggie Bush returns a punt for a TD. Does the Bush fantasy owner get credit for the TD as well as the NO ST/Def owner? Or do the point just go to the ST/Def?

 

I disagree with the double dip. Pick a focking side of how you want to score the ONE touchdown and stick with it. The double dip only reeks of owners crying when one of their RB's or WR's scores a TD on special teams and they happen to lose by couple points.

[Mephisto 15]

I do disagree with the double dip. Pick a focking side of how you want to score the ONE touchdown and stick with it. The double dip only reeks of owners crying when one of their RB's or WR's scores a TD on special teams and they happen to lose by couple points.

 

If that's your position, then the league should eliminate the "team" score.

 

Not giving an individual starting player points for a touchdown, no matter how they score it - is flat-out stupid.

[KSB2424 3,087]

If that's your position, then the league should eliminate the "team" score.

 

Not giving an individual starting player points for a touchdown, no matter how they score it - is flat-out stupid.

We choose not to score ONE touchdown twice. It goes against anykind of accounting or statistical theory. One event or entry should not be accounted for twice. You are having your cake and eating it to. Either choose to score it as an idividual TD, or a DST TD, not both. HTH

 

ETA: In all reality scoring in fantasy football can be whatever the hell your league wants it to be. As long as all the teams know the scoring system before the draft and are playing by the same rules it doesn't really matter.

[Mephisto 15]

We choose not to score ONE touchdown twice. It goes against anykind of accounting or statistical theory. One event or entry should not be accounted for twice. You are having your cake and eating it to. Either choose to score it as an idividual TD, or a DST TD, not both. HTH

 

ETA: In all reality scoring in fantasy football can be whatever the hell your league wants it to be. As long as all the teams know the scoring system before the draft and are playing by the same rules it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Logic would argue that a DST is "one position" and Reggie Bush is "another position." While it may be a statistical anomaly, it's not unreasonable to give a TD to each position. It is unreasonable to NOT give the TD to an individual player who scores it. We draft our individuals based upon their ability to score for us.

 

One TD is scored when a QB throws a touchdown pass, yet we give a TD to the quarterback AND a TD to the wide receiver. How the fock is that any different?

[KSB2424 3,087]

Logic would argue that a DST is "one position" and Reggie Bush is "another position." While it may be a statistical anomaly, it's not unreasonable to give a TD to each position. It is unreasonable to NOT give the TD to an individual player who scores it. We draft our individuals based upon their ability to score for us.

 

One TD is scored when a QB throws a touchdown pass, yet we give a TD to the quarterback AND a TD to the wide receiver. How the fock is that any different?

 

It's different because the QB threw a passing TD and the WR caught the receiveing TD. Reggie Bush, alone, scored a special team TD. Albeit small, there is a difference. And I'm sure we can come up with crazy scenarios like if Drew Brees threw a pass, it was deflected, Brees caught it and ran in for a TD. That would be a much better analogy.

 

But anyway, if that is how your league likes to score it then that is all good. Like I said it doesn't really matter. I was more or less responding to how you said it was "stupid" and started the name calling, when not using the double dip is just as valid as using it is.

 

[CapitalCityCajun 0]

It's different because the QB threw a passing TD and the WR caught the receiveing TD. Reggie Bush, alone, scored a special team TD. Albeit small, there is a difference. And I'm sure we can come up with crazy scenarios like if Drew Brees threw a pass, it was deflected, Brees caught it and ran in for a TD. That would be a much better analogy.

 

But anyway, if that is how your league likes to score it then that is all good. Like I said it doesn't really matter. I was more or less responding to how you said it was "stupid" and started the name calling, when not using the double dip is just as valid as using it is.

 

 

 

[Mephisto 15]

It's different because the QB threw a passing TD and the WR caught the receiveing TD. Reggie Bush, alone, scored a special team TD. Albeit small, there is a difference.

 

No, not really. I'd call that splitting hairs. You're the one who said "only one TD was scored on the play" - and I toss you another scenario where "only one TD was scored on the play" and now you want to say "oh, but that's different."

 

In the "double-dip" scenario... the DST scored a TD and Reggie Bush scored a TD. The problem people like you have with that specific scenario is that for some inexplicable reason, you're unable to differentiate between the two "people" scoring (DST & Reggie Bush in my case) yet - you can do the very same thing if Drew Brees through a TD to Reggie Bush. El Retardo.

 

And I'm sure we can come up with crazy scenarios like if Drew Brees threw a pass, it was deflected, Brees caught it and ran in for a TD. That would be a much better analogy.

 

Not really, and the analogy wouldn't be any "different." In fact, the above just undermines the hair-splitting "difference" you posted even more. (And, that very scenario has happened and yes, the QB would get both the passing TD and the receiving TD, but I digress...)

 

But anyway, if that is how your league likes to score it then that is all good. Like I said it doesn't really matter. I was more or less responding to how you said it was "stupid" and started the name calling, when not using the double dip is just as valid as using it is.

 

 

It is stupid. So are you.

[rfiori9 0]

If Reggie Bush returns a punt for a TD. Does the Bush fantasy owner get credit for the TD as well as the NO ST/Def owner? Or do the point just go to the ST/Def?

in our leauge both get points.

[Jello Biafra 0]

What if Bush played defense and intercepted a pass and scored. He would get points if you started him at RB?

[KSB2424 3,087]

In the "double-dip" scenario... the DST scored a TD and Reggie Bush scored a TD. The problem people like you have with that specific scenario is that for some inexplicable reason, you're unable to differentiate between the two "people" scoring (DST & Reggie Bush in my case) yet - you can do the very same thing if

 

What you fail to comprehend is that the Saints DST and RB Reggie Bush are two sepereate entities. Once Bush steps on the field and returns a punt he is part of the Saints DST roster spot. Either Bush scored the punt return TD OR the Saints Special Teams scored the TD. You can't have one person be accounted for on two roster spots. HTH

[Mephisto 15]

What if Bush played defense and intercepted a pass and scored. He would get points if you started him at RB?

 

Absolutely. No one can justify not giving an individual player points for a touchdown.

 

If Reggie Bush kicked a field goal - he'd get credit.

 

If Reggie Bush returns a kick - he'd get credit.

 

When Troy Brown was a wide receiver and played some d-back... he'd get credit for an interception return for a TD. If Reggie Bush did it - he'd get credit, too.

 

In my league, individual scores take absolute precedence over everything else. If a player scores and you started him, he gets credit no matter how he scored it.

[the_future420 3]

I think my league handles this situation the best.

 

We don't have D/ST, we only have DEF. Individual players are then awarded points for return yardage and return TD's.

 

So in this situation, Reggie Bush would get points for the return yardage and also the TD. The Saints DEF wouldn't get anything.

[Mephisto 15]

What you fail to comprehend is that the Saints DST and RB Reggie Bush are two sepereate entities. Once Bush steps on the field and returns a punt he is part of the Saints DST. Either Bush scored the punt return TD OR the Saints Special Teams scored the TD. You can't have one person be accounted for on two roster spots. HTH

 

Yes, I can. That's now officially your THIRD different argument after you undermined your first two.

 

It would just be easier for you to simply declare yourself the winner of this thread and move on... because there isn't a person on this or any other board who is going to meaningfully justify to me why you WOULDN'T give an individual credit for a score, no matter how he managed to score - if he was started in your league.

[KSB2424 3,087]

I think my league handles this situation the best.

 

We don't have D/ST, we only have DEF. Individual players are then awarded points for return yardage and return TD's.

 

So in this situation, Reggie Bush would get points for the return yardage and also the TD. The Saints DEF wouldn't get anything.

Now that works. Giving it to both of them is what is dumb.

[Mephisto 15]

I think my league handles this situation the best.

 

We don't have D/ST, we only have DEF. Individual players are then awarded points for return yardage and return TD's.

 

So in this situation, Reggie Bush would get points for the return yardage and also the TD. The Saints DEF wouldn't get anything.

 

Which is effectively how I said was the appropriate way to handle it, with a twist... you don't award the defensive team TD points. That's almost the same as me saying "remove the DST from your roster requirements." You removed the "ST."

[Mephisto 15]

Now that works. Giving it to both of them is what is dumb.

 

Only as dumb as giving both the QB and WR a TD on a play where "only one TD is scored." You focking dope.

[the_future420 3]

Now that works. Giving it to both of them is what is dumb.

 

Exactly. And going further with it, if Reggie Bush were to line up on defense, and get an interception returned for a TD, the Saints DEF would get the points, and not Reggie Bush since we are not an IDP league.

 

Basically, my league subjectively looks at the play to see if it was "offensive" or "defensive" oriented.

 

Offensive plays are credited individually.

Defensive plays are credited as a team.

 

I think most would agree that returning a kick is more "offensive" since you are not trying to stop the opposing team in the act of scoring. Therefore, the individual gets the points.

 

Getting an interception and returning it for a TD is a "defensive" play since you scored in the midst of trying to stop the opposing team. Therefore, the team D gets the points.

 

I think that is the only fair way to do it.

[skittles 0]

Anytime an individual player on a fantasy roster scores a TD, he is awarded 6 points, regardless of the surrounding events. Punt Returns, Fumble Returns, Fake Field Goals. Your players should get the points for scoring if he does in fact score. We also score the for the DST. A few years ago I had The Patriots D/ST and Adam Vinatieri when Vinatieri threw the touchdown pass on the fake field goal. I received a TD for the Pats, and a TD for Vinatieri -- I bet that makes some of your blood boil. In our league constitution, it specifies that Fake FGs and Punts will score for the D/ST.

 

Its all about your league. Your league has rules, they've been set since week 1, and whatever they are, thats the ruling for your league.

[Mephisto 15]

Exactly. And going further with it, if Reggie Bush were to line up on defense, and get an interception returned for a TD, the Saints DEF would get the points, and not Reggie Bush since we are not an IDP league.

 

Basically, my league subjectively looks at the play to see if it was "offensive" or "defensive" oriented.

 

Offensive plays are credited individually.

Defensive plays are credited as a team.

 

I think most would agree that returning a kick is more "offensive" since you are not trying to stop the opposing team in the act of scoring. Therefore, the individual gets the points.

 

Getting an interception and returning it for a TD is a "defensive" play since you scored in the midst of trying to stop the opposing team. Therefore, the team D gets the points.

 

I think that is the only fair way to do it.

 

The only "fair" way to do it is... if you choose to have both individuals and teams... to give scores to those who score them.

 

Not giving an individual scoring points on a scoring play, no matter his position... is not "fair."

[KSB2424 3,087]

Only as dumb as giving both the QB and WR a TD on a play where "only one TD is scored." You focking dope.

The fact that you cannot figure out the two are not the same thing is what is astonishing.

[Thornton Melon 549]

My league does the double dip. It's great when it happens to your team - almost as much fun as watching 2 people argue about it.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

If Reggie Bush returns a punt for a TD. Does the Bush fantasy owner get credit for the TD as well as the NO ST/Def owner? Or do the point just go to the ST/Def?

 

Re-Draft: Both Bush and NO get credit

Dynasty: Only NO gets credit

 

I prefer the re-draft method even though its getting scored twice. If Bush gets a TD and TDs are worth 6 imo Bush should get the 6.

[nicewolf64 0]

for leagues that give the TD to the player, do you also count the return yards? I don't see how you can give the TD to the player unless return yards also get counted.

[Thornton Melon 549]

for leagues that give the TD to the player, do you also count the return yards? I don't see how you can give the TD to the player unless return yards also get counted.

 

We don't count return yards. If you count the return yards on a TD, wouldn't you have to count return yards for a non-TD return also?

 

Our league philosophy - if your player runs, catches, throws, returns, recovers, or sh!ts a TD he should get credit for it. If you happens to have that player's team D/ST also, well good for you, dambit!

[Mephisto 15]

The fact that you cannot figure out the two are not the same thing is what is astonishing.

 

The fact that you repeatedly attempt to convince the masses that a "one TD play" should only be awarded to one position while justifying it for two other positions is what is astonishing.

 

The point you are missing is this: You're all hung up on the DST being "a team." It's not. In fantasy football, the DST is a POSITION (in non-IDP leagues). And much the same as you would award TWO positions a score on a passing TD... you would award a score on a return TD to TWO positions (if it applies).

[KSB2424 3,087]

The fact that you repeatedly attempt to convince the masses that a "one TD play" should only be awarded to one position while justifying it for two other positions is what is astonishing.

 

The point you are missing is this: You're all hung up on the DST being "a team." It's not. In fantasy football, the DST is a POSITION (in non-IDP leagues). And much the same as you would award TWO positions a score on a passing TD... you would award a score on a return TD to TWO positions (if it applies).

 

I understand what you are saying. The difference is that Peyton Manning (one position) throws a TD to Reggie Wayne (another position) then Yes, of course you score a TD for for both. Because both positions were responsible for the TD.

 

However when Reggie Bush is returning punts, he essentially IS the Saints DST (position). Nobody threw him a pass to score the TD. Reggie Bush alone caught the punt, ran the punt, and scored the TD. You are trying to split Reggie Bush into two seperate fantasy football positions.

 

We don't have an Offensive/ST for a reason. It's stoopid. When Addai scores a TD he gets the points. We don't also give points to some "Colts OST". That would be dumb, unnecessary, and double dipping.

 

If you want to make sure all the players you draft are rewarded for special team TD's and/or yards that is GREAT. However you should only play a Defense (i.e. points come from defensive categories only) not a Defense/Special Teams.

[Mephisto 15]

However when Reggie Bush is returning punts, he essentially IS the Saints DST (position).

 

This sentence alone means you absolutely don't get what I'm saying. And I will repeat - you can justify the two-position/one-TD is okay for one set of circumstances and not for another all you want - it still won't make sense.

 

The funny thing is, we essentially agree to a point. If you are not a fan of this set of circumstances, you either dump the entire team category or, as the other poster suggested, dump the ST from the DST.

 

But don't sit here and argue with me that it makes sense to give 1TD to 2-positions in one circumstance and not the other in leagues that do have a DST. An individual who scores should always be awarded points, no matter how you feel about the set-up. Not doing so is just flat-out wrong.

[SigEp316 0]

We choose not to score ONE touchdown twice. It goes against anykind of accounting or statistical theory. One event or entry should not be accounted for twice. You are having your cake and eating it to. Either choose to score it as an idividual TD, or a DST TD, not both. HTH

 

ETA: In all reality scoring in fantasy football can be whatever the hell your league wants it to be. As long as all the teams know the scoring system before the draft and are playing by the same rules it doesn't really matter.

 

 

agreed...this is how we score it as well.

 

I didn't get credit for MJD's 100yd TD this past weekend and got the LOSS because of it. I just don't think you can score a TD more than once unless it's a pass.

[KSB2424 3,087]

This sentence alone means you absolutely don't get what I'm saying. And I will repeat - you can justify the two-position/one-TD is okay for one set of circumstances and not for another all you want - it still won't make sense.

 

This is the justification:

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a passing TD? 2, therefore scored twice.

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a punt return TD? 1, therefore scored once.

 

You either need to have all Special Teams Touchdowns scored on either the offensive side of the ball (i.e. individual players) OR the Defensive side of the ball (i.e. Team Defense).

[Mephisto 15]

This is the justification:

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a passing TD? 2, therefore scored twice.

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a punt return TD? 1, therefore scored once.

 

You either need to have all Special Teams Touchdowns scored on either the offensive side of the ball (i.e. individual players) OR the Defensive side of the ball (i.e. Team Defense).

 

It's wrong. And you're a stupidhead. And causitation isn't a word.

 

You think that team blocking was a causitation for a Reggie Bush return TD? I can make all kinds of causitation arguments to justify 2 scored for 2 positions, which, of course makes sense. You fail to consider all kinds of causitations that could causitate Bush to return for a TD necessitating that said causitation should justify a score for the DST as well as Bush.

 

2-for-2 or 1-for-1. Pick an argument and stop causitating all of this angst!

[Jello Biafra 0]

This is the justification:

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a passing TD? 2, therefore scored twice.

 

How many players (roster position) are a DIRECT causitation of a punt return TD? 1, therefore scored once.

 

You either need to have all Special Teams Touchdowns scored on either the offensive side of the ball (i.e. individual players) OR the Defensive side of the ball (i.e. Team Defense).

 

How many (roster position) players are a direct causitation of a rushing TD?

[Mephisto 15]

How many (roster position) players are a direct causation of a rushing TD?

 

Causitation: QB hands ball to RB. They should both get credit for a rushing TD.

[Jello Biafra 0]

Causitation: QB hands ball to RB. They should both get credit for a rushing TD.

 

Ok, I fixed it up. Causitation.

 

And I demand my QB get points for rushing TDs.

[KSB2424 3,087]

I guess you were to busy looking up my made up word (causitation) that you missed the word DIRECT.

[KSB2424 3,087]

How many (roster position) players are a direct causitation of a rushing TD?

1

[Jello Biafra 0]

1

 

I disagree. Unless it's snapped directly to the RB, he has to get the handoff from the QB which is a direct causitation.

[Mephisto 15]

I disagree. Unless it's snapped directly to the RB, he has to get the handoff from the QB which is a direct causitation.

 

I agree. I just have to decide whether I need to change my scoring to give the QB a TD on all hand-offs or remove passing TDs since a touchdown pass is really nothing more than a really long hand-off.

 

Damn you! All this causitation stuff just screwed EVERYTHING up!