Jared Allen trade revisited

[Drizzay 651]

The speculation leading up to the draft, and before the trade, was the Vikings would take Harvey with the 17th pick. It was long thought of by draft wonks that Long, Gholston and Harvey were the top 3 DE's in the draft. Long and Gholston were sure-fire top ten picks, and they were. When the trade went down, people said that the Vikings had given up way too much to aquire Allen and could have gotten a good DE in Harvey if he was there at #17 or if they had to move up a few spots to get him.

 

Now that the draft is over, how does the trade look?

 

Vikings gave up #17 + two 3rd round picks for Jared Allen - Career: 43 sacks, 13 forced fumbles, 1 int in 4 years.

 

Jacksonville gave up #26 + two 3rd round picks and a 4th for Derrick Harvey - unproven

 

The trade looks pretty good to me!

 

[cmh6476 783]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/branden-albert?id=660

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jamaal-charles?id=925

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/dajuan-morgan?id=2013

 

and we also moved up enough to get the best return man in the draft:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/kevin-robinson?id=2305

[Drizzay 651]

I was more interested with what Jacksonville did. I think they reached far more for Harvey than the Vikings did for Allen.

 

I understand that KC had a great draft. But it was all about needs for both teams. We've needed a pass rush DE for 20 years, and you guys needed multiple picks to rebuild your team.

[Belushi 9]

Great trade for KC. But I can understand why Minnesota did it. They've blown tons of picks at DE with no success. Now they get maybe the best defensive player in the NFL, and he's still fairly young. We'll have to see how KC's picks turn out, but I think it was a good deal for both sides. KC needs as much help as they can get, and it looks like they had a great draft.

[cmh6476 783]

Great trade for KC. But I can understand why Minnesota did it. They've blown tons of picks at DE with no success. Now they get maybe the best defensive player in the NFL, and he's still fairly young. We'll have to see how KC's picks turn out, but I think it was a good deal for both sides. KC needs as much help as they can get, and it looks like they had a great draft.

in order to be the best defensive player in the NFL, he would need to be as good of a run defender as he is a pass rusher, which isn't the case.

[cmh6476 783]

Albert will start from day 1, so it won't take much time to see what we have in him. Morgan will come in and compete with Page and Pollard for a starting job right away, and should contribute immediatley on special teams.

 

I also think they'll utilize Charles' skills early, so we'll get to see what we have in him right away. If those three guys pan out, this was a fantastic trade for the Chiefs.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Jacksonville looks like schmucks after the draft. They paid way too much for Harvey. I think Minnesota would have looked better had they taken a QB in the 2nd. I don't think Booty is anything more than a career backup. So now Minnesota has what GB and Chi has. A good defense with huge question marks on offense. The division is up for grabs with Detroit playing the part of the damsel in distress.

[mzf5c5 0]

Jacksonville looks like schmucks after the draft. They paid way too much for Harvey. I think Minnesota would have looked better had they taken a QB in the 2nd. I don't think Booty is anything more than a career backup. So now Minnesota has what GB and Chi has. A good defense with huge question marks on offense. The division is up for grabs with Detroit playing the part of the damsel in distress.

 

But if you look at what Jacksonville has to beat every year, my Colts, I don't blame them for going after DE's. They need pash rushers, plus they not only have to beat a team like the Colts, but the second best team in the Pats. So pass rushers against the two best QB's and offenses playing today.

 

NOW, I don't agree with you on Minnesota. Minnesota has the best Defense in that division and maybe the league now. At least against the rush. They have the offense with AP and Chester Taylor running behind that great line. The question is, can the QB make enough plays, to complete their run on the SB this year.

 

I predict Minnesota wins the their division this year.

 

[dreadlocks34 0]

in order to be the best defensive player in the NFL, he would need to be as good of a run defender as he is a pass rusher, which isn't the case.

But you do know that he is not terrible against the run by any stretch either. And our defense was already probably the best in the league against the run before getting him.

 

The bottom line is with both teams positions and were they are at, this is a deal that should work very nicely for both teams.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

But if you look at what Jacksonville has to beat every year, my Colts, I don't blame them for going after DE's. They need pash rushers, plus they not only have to beat a team like the Colts, but the second best team in the Pats. So pass rushers against the two best QB's and offenses playing today.

 

NOW, I don't agree with you on Minnesota. Minnesota has the best Defense in that division and maybe the league now. At least against the rush. They have the offense with AP and Chester Taylor running behind that great line. The question is, can the QB make enough plays, to complete their run on the SB this year.

 

I predict Minnesota wins the their division this year.

 

agree to disagree.

 

Jacksonville may want to beat the Colts, but they shouldn't have reached for Harvey the way they did. They could have gone after Allen if they wanted someone that bad. They paid slightly less for Harvey as the Vikings did for Allen. Which is kinda ridiculous considering Allen is only 26 and the top pass rusher currently.

 

Minnesota improved their pass rush with Allen, but he is beatable against the rush. Minnesota and Green Bay will fight for the division with the QB's being the X factor. I give the Packers the ever so slight edge simply because they have a better group of WR's. Chicago and Detroit will fight it out for 3rd and 4th in my opinion.

[MTSkiBum 1,606]

Vikings gave up #17 + two 3rd round picks for Jared Allen - Career: 43 sacks, 13 forced fumbles, 1 int in 4 years.

 

Jacksonville gave up #26 + two 3rd round picks and a 4th for Derrick Harvey - unproven

 

The trade looks pretty good to me!

 

 

That trade looks pretty good till Allen gets another DUI, and it will happen, there is nothing to do in minnasota besides drink. I would be suprised if he can make it till the season starts.

 

Jacksonville got a much better deal than the vikes.

[Arsenal 3]

That trade looks pretty good till Allen gets another DUI, and it will happen, there is nothing to do in minnasota besides drink.

 

You clearly have not been on many Minnesota boating trips...

[J-Money 4]

Minnesota improved their pass rush with Allen, but he is beatable against the rush.

 

people keep bringing this up, surpisingly noone is bringing up the better dt's in minny that will help him vs the run as well as the pass

[cmh6476 783]

people keep bringing this up, surpisingly noone is bringing up the better dt's in minny that will help him vs the run as well as the pass

No, your point is valid. With the outstanding DTs and LBs versus the run, it will only make his run defense that much better and shouldn;t be a concern.

 

But, at the same time look at it from the Chiefs perspective. Why give that much money, the most ever to a defensive player in the game, when he does have holes in his game?

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

people keep bringing this up, surpisingly noone is bringing up the better dt's in minny that will help him vs the run as well as the pass

It's because I don't honestly think Allen does much for the run defense. He's a great pass rusher which is exactly what Minnesota needs. Someone who can get to the QB. They didn't really need any help with run stuffing. They were doing that just fine last season. Allen is there to get to the QB. Put pressure on the passing game and cause the QB to make quick decisions with the hope that he either gets a sack or causes a mistake that the LB's or DB's can capatalize on.

 

The big thing about Allen in Minnesota is that teams will be hard pressed to double up on Allen because they want to double up on the Williams boys. I'd be willing to bet, you'll see some double TE sets against the Vikings this year to bounce a quick double off Allen with a release to the short out. Screens galore and quick slants to keep Allen off the QB. Probably a few more shot guns too.

[Walter34 3]

Albert will start from day 1, so it won't take much time to see what we have in him. Morgan will come in and compete with Page and Pollard for a starting job right away, and should contribute immediatley on special teams.

 

I also think they'll utilize Charles' skills early, so we'll get to see what we have in him right away. If those three guys pan out, this was a fantastic trade for the Chiefs.

 

Theoretically, the Chiefs could have had all of these players except Alberts in addition to Jared. They could have had both Allen and Dorsey on the dline which would have become one of the best in football. They could have also gotten Charles or a lesser olineman in the 2nd / 3rd rounds.

 

While I think the Chiefs did well, they could have been better without trading him.

 

For Minnesota, it was a great deal short term that will work out if Allen stays clean and productive. The risk is his off field antics and potential for suspension.

[VikesFan 1]

Do those prior suspensions ever get wiped off his record after a period of good behavior? Just curious.

[Vikings4ever 500]

Do those prior suspensions ever get wiped off his record after a period of good behavior? Just curious.

There was a report that if he behaves himself through September, the 2 strikes get wiped. I never saw any confirmation though.

[Savage Beast 1]

and we also moved up enough to get the best return man in the draft:

 

I thought Dallas drafted Felix Jones?

[scherber830 0]

I thought Dallas drafted Felix Jones?

leodis mckelvin was drafted by buffalo wasnt he?

[dreadlocks34 0]

But, at the same time look at it from the Chiefs perspective. Why give that much money, the most ever to a defensive player in the game, when he does have holes in his game?

 

Even though I think you are exaggerating his weaknesses a little, you are very right saying it did not make any sense for the Chiefs to give Allen a big contract since they are not close to being a contender anytime soon. They weren't ever going to anyway after they told him he was a high risk individual. Bu it probably didn't make sense to give Larry Johnson all that money either.

 

Again, that is why this deal should be a very good one for both teams.

[cmh6476 783]

Theoretically, the Chiefs could have had all of these players except Alberts in addition to Jared. They could have had both Allen and Dorsey on the dline which would have become one of the best in football. They could have also gotten Charles or a lesser olineman in the 2nd / 3rd rounds.

 

While I think the Chiefs did well, they could have been better without trading him.

 

For Minnesota, it was a great deal short term that will work out if Allen stays clean and productive. The risk is his off field antics and potential for suspension.

then they wouldnt have gotten cottam, there's no way they end up with all the picks they did if they dont trade allen.

[Drizzay 651]

There was a report that if he behaves himself through September, the 2 strikes get wiped. I never saw any confirmation though.

 

 

Yea i heard this too. And he claims the last time he drank was 17 months ago. It's not like he is still drinking.

 

Oh btw, there is plenty to do here. It sounds like he likes to hunt and fish in his off time. He'll be out on the lakes with Hrbie in no time.

[cmh6476 783]

I thought Dallas drafted Felix Jones?

the kid from utah state has the numbers

[Timinator 0]

Jacksonville made the Vikings look smarter. I think it was a good trade for both MN and KC.

 

As a Packer fan, I'm not too worried about Jared Allen. I'm more worried about Rodgers staying healthy. If he does, GB has the WRs (5 solid guys) for quick strikes which will nullify pressure from the D line. Then you get into the soft under-belly that is the Viking pass defense.

 

The worst part for the Vikings is that now they have everybody all jacked up while Adrian Peterson averaged just 36 yards a game the last four games of 2007. They literally could not pass the ball. SF seemingly ran a CB at Peterson on every play and Tavaris still couldn't complete a meaningful pass. If that continues, real fans and FF fans will have little Viking bobble heads roasting on a stick. Could be a really long year after these ridiculously high expectations.

[Chief71 0]

The great thing is that we drafted Jared Allen with a 4th round pick and ended up trading him and getting a 1st round and 2 third rounders....plus we saved $71 million dollars.

[mgs316 14]

Does anyone think anyone cared if Deion Sanders never once tried to tackle anyone? Or that Dwight Freeney just runs upfield tying to kill the QB?

 

Same for Allen.

[DexterMorgan 5]

The great thing is that we drafted Jared Allen with a 4th round pick and ended up trading him and getting a 1st round and 2 third rounders....plus we saved $71 million dollars.

 

By this logic then, If the Patriots traded Tom Brady for a second rounder it would be a good deal because they drafted him in the 6th, I think Allen has shown he is worth more than his 4th round selection. Also, the Chiefs saved $71 million but that doesn't account for the money that they have to pay the additional draft picks they received that may or may not pan out. Granted it wont be 71 Mil but personally i would rather pay proven talent. JMO (although i am biased)

 

I think the trade worked out well for both teams. Chiefs got some much needed picks and Vikings got their needed pass rusher.

[Perennial Contender 18]

As a Packer fan, I'm not too worried about Jared Allen. I'm more worried about Rodgers staying healthy.

 

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

But if you look at what Jacksonville has to beat every year, my Colts, I don't blame them for going after DE's. They need pash rushers, plus they not only have to beat a team like the Colts, but the second best team in the Pats. So pass rushers against the two best QB's and offenses playing today.

 

NOW, I don't agree with you on Minnesota. Minnesota has the best Defense in that division and maybe the league now. At least against the rush. They have the offense with AP and Chester Taylor running behind that great line. The question is, can the QB make enough plays, to complete their run on the SB this year.

 

I predict Minnesota wins the their division this year.

 

 

I think Minny is close to the tops in the division (that still remains to be seen if they are the best). They are obviously great against the run...but still can be run on.

 

I predict that if Aaron Rodgers is competent, Green Bay will win it in a close battle.

[Sho Nuff 720]

There was a report that if he behaves himself through September, the 2 strikes get wiped. I never saw any confirmation though.

 

There was that report...but the NFL office could never confirm it is what I read.

Similar things were said about Travis Henry too...but I never heard a confirmation of that.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Roll your eyes all you want. Im not afraid of him either.

Thats why we have this Chad Clifton guy. The same guy that held him to half a sack last year.

The interior worries me more than an end does against the way the Packers play.

[ScottyFargo 0]

Jacksonville made the Vikings look smarter. I think it was a good trade for both MN and KC.

 

As a Packer fan, I'm not too worried about Jared Allen. I'm more worried about Rodgers staying healthy. If he does, GB has the WRs (5 solid guys) for quick strikes which will nullify pressure from the D line. Then you get into the soft under-belly that is the Viking pass defense.

The worst part for the Vikings is that now they have everybody all jacked up while Adrian Peterson averaged just 36 yards a game the last four games of 2007. They literally could not pass the ball. SF seemingly ran a CB at Peterson on every play and Tavaris still couldn't complete a meaningful pass. If that continues, real fans and FF fans will have little Viking bobble heads roasting on a stick. Could be a really long year after these ridiculously high expectations.

 

The soft white underbelly was the lack of a pass rush, which I think you can safely argue they upgraded that when they traded for Allen. The team has greater depth at Safety after picking up Madieu and drafting Tyrelle. I expect their sacks and INT to rise considerably over last years total with an increase of pressure on the QB. Even if this doesn't come directly from Allen (though I expect he'll have 10+ this year) Kevin Williams or Ray Edwards will find it easier to break through the line. They were tied for 20th last year in INT because teams had time to sit back and just wait for the WR to hit their spot. The coverage was their, the QB just had plenty of time to wait it out. FF production? The Vikings D was a steal last year and will still be an ever better choice this year.

 

There still is no reason to pick up Tarvaris as a QB, Berrian's production will likely not rise above what he did in Chicago last year. In game however I think they will find more consistency from the WR's and Peterson's not going to disappear again this year like he did last year because Tarvaris will likely be able to punish teams more this year for stacking the box. The Vikings can game plan better now to take advantage of the pressure Adrian was getting when he was coming off of the injury.

 

I am not going to give the Vikes the division championship without them actually playing the games, especially since the only way Green Bay got weaker was at QB, and even then we have no idea if Rodgers will be horrible or not. I am not banking on him sucking enough to blow the whole season for the Packers. Grant won't have the same production as he did last year, unless Rodgers is able to mirror Favre's play.

 

Roll your eyes all you want. Im not afraid of him either.

Thats why we have this Chad Clifton guy. The same guy that held him to half a sack last year.

The interior worries me more than an end does against the way the Packers play.

 

Saying he was held to a half a sack is a little sideways. He had 15 and that 1/2 in 14 games, so it's not like he "disappeared" against the Pack last year. San Diego, Oakland and Indianapolis all shut him out against sacks last year. I am not going to argue that Clifton did or did not stuff Allen the whole game as I didn't watch the game, but there is more to what a pass rusher does than just get sacks, there are the hurries, the broken plays, etc. Kampman only averaged .5 a sack against the Vikings over the two games they played last year, but I am not going to lie to myself and say he's not worth worrying about. I am sure the teams gameplan around the most realistic threats, trying to shut them out of the equation. When you do that, the slack has to be picked up somewhere else.

 

One could argue that the play of the interior linesman of the Vikings will see an upturn in production due to teams having to pick their poison. The Williams' are certainly not slouches. I think the Viking / Packer games will be much more competetive than they were last year.