mrgymrat 0 Posted November 28, 2008 So do you think there's a guy sitting in the stands at Ford Field holding a sign that says "I told you firing Matt Millen was a bad idea?" The forlorn Lions fans finally get their wish and are rid of the man but will now end the season 0-fer. That's gotta really bite hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bgards79 0 Posted November 28, 2008 This has nothing to do with the firing of Millen. Why would firing Millen sting by us going 0-fer? They are his players with his talent evaluation skills!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ramrock 13 Posted November 28, 2008 Knew they were going to lose them all when they picked up stuffedpepper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrgymrat 0 Posted November 28, 2008 From a fans perspective to get rid of Millen seems like it would give you hope and then to have them actually regress from where they were a year ago, give away Roy Williams for cheap, see that your QB of the future isn't exactly that, and generally rival the infamous 1976-77 Tampa Bay Bucs would be depressing. So which season in Detroit is going to hurt worse the Lions going 0-fer or the Pistons becoming average w/ AI? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bgards79 0 Posted November 28, 2008 From a fans perspective to get rid of Millen seems like it would give you hope and then to have them actually regress from where they were a year ago, give away Roy Williams for cheap, see that your QB of the future isn't exactly that, and generally rival the infamous 1976-77 Tampa Bay Bucs would be depressing. So which season in Detroit is going to hurt worse the Lions going 0-fer or the Pistons becoming average w/ AI? Getting rid of Millen is hope for the future (if old man Ford backs off as well) not for the same season in which all of his crapass "talent" is running around. And for the record they far from gave away Roy Williams. They would have lost him anyway to free agency and they got what a 1st, 3rd, and 5th for him?? That was the best thing all season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dallas_Empire 0 Posted November 28, 2008 The Lions are the blueprint for getting beat in the NFL. Bad QB check! Bad run game! No pass rush! Bad offensive line! Bad defense! Seriously, everything you need to do consistently to win they lack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrgymrat 0 Posted November 28, 2008 Draft picks are nothing for the Lions... do we really want to go there? Until they get actual players who make it on an NFL roster and pan out then the Lions gave up Roy for nothing. Seems like they could have traded for some actual players (since that's what they need now)? 2008 DRAFT (1st RD) 17. (DET) Goster Cherilus 18. (BAL) Joe Flaco 21. (ATL) Sam Baker 22. (DAL) Felix Jones 24. (TEN) Chris Johnson Do you really think that Millen was the only one calling the shots at the draft? C'mon. You don't have the head coach standing there saying we really need a QB of the future, or how about an able RB or OL? The 2009 Draft will be no different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenophobe 1 Posted November 28, 2008 WRs are a luxury position. A good one can be the missing piece and a really good one can raise an offense, but you absolutly can not build a team around the position. This team wasted four high first round picks on the position, and as a result, they have no core on either side of the ball. Calvin Johnson is amazing and I think talent wise he is the best I've seen in a long time. But as good as he is, its kind of hard for him to have an impact when his QB is getting plastered every time he drops back and his defense can't get a hand on anybody. They should have the top pick this year and some extras from the Williams trade. As bad as this team is, they have one bonified superstud and some real draft leverage build this thing up the right way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,592 Posted November 28, 2008 Draft picks are nothing for the Lions... do we really want to go there? Until they get actual players who make it on an NFL roster and pan out then the Lions gave up Roy for nothing. Seems like they could have traded for some actual players (since that's what they need now)? 2008 DRAFT (1st RD) 17. (DET) Goster Cherilus 18. (BAL) Joe Flaco 21. (ATL) Sam Baker 22. (DAL) Felix Jones 24. (TEN) Chris Johnson Do you really think that Millen was the only one calling the shots at the draft? C'mon. You don't have the head coach standing there saying we really need a QB of the future, or how about an able RB or OL? The 2009 Draft will be no different. Um, they have been Millen's picks for the last how many years? Without Millen there is some hope the drafting will get better, it can't get any worse. Millen did nothing positive for the team. I don't get this thread. It makes no sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MicktheGreat 1 Posted November 28, 2008 Um, they have been Millen's picks for the last how many years? Without Millen there is some hope the drafting will get better, it can't get any worse. Millen did nothing positive for the team. I don't get this thread. It makes no sense. Millen was the Lions' President/GM from 200-2008. Below are the 1st round picks made during Millen's regime (players in BOLD are still with the team): 2000 OT Stocker McDougle 2001 OT Jeff Backus 2002 QB Joey Harrington 2003 WR Charles Rogers 2004 WR Roy Williams 2005 WR Mike Williams 2006 LB Ernie Sims 2007 WR Calvin Johnson 2008 OT Gosder Cherilus With the exception of one player (Backus in 2001), you'll notice that zero of the 1st round picks are still with the team from 2000-2005. In my mind, this falls squarely on Millen's shoulders as he's ultimately the guy in charge of choosing personnel in the draft. It's bad enough when a team misses on 1-2 1st round draft picks in a row. Millen appears to have missed on 1st rounders more often than not. I'm not sure where McDougle is. Backus is decent on the OL but should definitely not be the starting LT (as illustrated in yesterday's performance). Harrington is a perennial backup in the league. Rogers & MW are no longer in the league (to my knowledge). Roy is now with the Cowboys. It's still a little too early to make judgments on Sims, Johnson, or Cherilus in my opinion. Needless to say, I think the Lions set themselves back a long time by botching up so many 1st round picks over that 9-year span. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgeorge78 0 Posted November 28, 2008 ya They suck. We all know this. But I can't wait until next sunday to watch them again. The Tigers were just as bad years ago. They hired Dave Dombrowski and turned it around. I was at the game vs. Oak in 06 when Maggs hit the HR to send them to the World Series. It was amazing. Even more amazing knowing they were the worst team in history just 3 years previous. Lions need to find there GM. Plain and Simple. The Stadium is there, the fans are there. They have a WR and RB. They need a top Left Tackle, Pass Rusher and a few corners. I think these guys play and play well next year: Cherldros MegaTron Kevin Smith D Raola Avril (Could be a playmaker) Sims Bullucks Gerald Alexander (Was playing decent before injury) Anything can happen Right?? Right? Please God Right?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MicktheGreat 1 Posted November 29, 2008 ya They suck. We all know this.But I can't wait until next sunday to watch them again. The Tigers were just as bad years ago. They hired Dave Dombrowski and turned it around. I was at the game vs. Oak in 06 when Maggs hit the HR to send them to the World Series. It was amazing. Even more amazing knowing they were the worst team in history just 3 years previous. Lions need to find there GM. Plain and Simple. The Stadium is there, the fans are there. They have a WR and RB. They need a top Left Tackle, Pass Rusher and a few corners. I think these guys play and play well next year: Cherldros MegaTron Kevin Smith D Raola Avril (Could be a playmaker) Sims Bullucks Gerald Alexander (Was playing decent before injury) Anything can happen Right?? Right? Please God Right?? The good thing (I guess...) for the Lions is that they have so many holes that they have a lot of potential ways in which to improve their team. I'm in agreement with you that the OL & DL are top priorities, along with a franchise QB (since Kitna's getting older, Culpepper's a stop-gap at best, Orlovsky looks like nothing more than a backup, and they obviously have zero faith in Stanton). With that high draft pick, they could choose to go OL with Andre Smith, or Michael Oher. Or they could go QB with Matt Stafford or Sam Bradford. I don't think that there are any DEs or DTs that warrant a #1-#3 pick in this year's draft. There are also some QBs who could be available -- Matt Cassell, Kurt Warner, Kyle Orton, Donovan McNabb, Derek Anderson, Vince Young, etc. My realistic guess is that the Lions will try to sign some help on defense (some notable guys available include Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs, Julius Peppers, Karlos Dansby, Jonathan Vilma, Nnamdi Asomunga, Dunta Robinson, etc.). Then they'll try to address QB and OL in the draft -- probably using their 1st pick in Rd 1 on QB Matt Stafford and their 2nd pick in Rd 1 (from Dallas) on someone like OT Eugene Monroe, OT Jason Smith. However, if I were in charge of the Lions, after firing everyone on the coaching staff, I think I'd target two big FAs on the market -- one on the offensive side of the ball and one on the defensive side of the ball. My two choices would be QB Matt Cassell (who's young, mobile, and has proven that he can handle pressure) and DE Terrell Suggs (who will be more affordable in the market because Haynesworth & Peppers will command the top $$$ on the DL). Then I'd use my top 1st rounder on OL protection -- either Smith or Oher. Then I'd use my second 1st rounder on the BDPA (LB James Laurinatis, LB Rey Manaluga, S William Curry, DE George Selvie, etc.). Basically...this offseason, I think the Lions have to do two things to start heading in the right direction: 1. Address the trenches (both on the offensive and defensive side) 2. Draft/Sign a franchise QB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgeorge78 0 Posted November 29, 2008 I agree with making a splash on the FA market. 1 on each side of the ball. Draft has to be OLine Heavy. I think both first round pics. Left Tackle and Left Guard. Raola is a decent C and Cheldros will be a good Right Tackle. I think Pass rusher is the most important position in football next to the QB. Stay away from Cassel. He will get Murdered behind this line. Wait another year for that QB IMO. Build the foundation this year through he draft / FA and see what happens. Although I would LOVE to see little animal from ohio state play MLB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walter34 3 Posted November 29, 2008 If I take a dump in the middle of a room, and then leave the room, the stench is still mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgeorge78 0 Posted November 29, 2008 The Smell will go away eventually. Unless you ate Mexican Food the night before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleGiants78 0 Posted November 29, 2008 The Lions are the blueprint for getting beat in the NFL. Bad QB check! Bad run game! No pass rush! Bad offensive line! Bad defense! Seriously, everything you need to do consistently to win they lack. You forget to mention special teams Only 3 brightspots on that team CJ Hanson KevSmith Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MicktheGreat 1 Posted November 29, 2008 I agree with making a splash on the FA market. 1 on each side of the ball. Draft has to be OLine Heavy. I think both first round pics. Left Tackle and Left Guard. Raola is a decent C and Cheldros will be a good Right Tackle. I think Pass rusher is the most important position in football next to the QB. Stay away from Cassel. He will get Murdered behind this line. Wait another year for that QB IMO. Build the foundation this year through he draft / FA and see what happens. Although I would LOVE to see little animal from ohio state play MLB. I don't know. I think Cassell can handle it, as he's shown that he's mobile enough to get away from the pass-rush and also has some good composure in the pocket. Plus, if the Lions draft a OL in the 1st round and move Backus inside, then I think their OL gets considerably better: LT Andre Smith LG Jeff Backus C Dominic Raiola RG George Foster/Edwin Mulitalo RT Gosder Cherilus Plus...I didn't think about this earlier, but there will probably be some decent OL available in FA this time as well: Jordan Gross, Mike Goff, Vernon Carey, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrgymrat 0 Posted November 29, 2008 So Marinelli had no input into draft choices at all? Millen just went rogue and pulled names out of his ? I think people under estimate how deep the problems in Detroit go. For example, no GM yet? Seems like, with that being such an important position, one would have a short list ready when you fired Millen (seems like you could have started a list sometime over the past 8 years or so). No long range plan, no short range plan. The problems start at the top with William Clay Ford. (For those that asked that is the purpose of this thread). Getting rid of Millen solves very little IMO. Sorry Detroit. Your only hope was to snag the Tuna... look at what he did with last year's biggest loser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MicktheGreat 1 Posted November 29, 2008 So Marinelli had no input into draft choices at all? Millen just went rogue and pulled names out of his ? I think people under estimate how deep the problems in Detroit go. For example, no GM yet? Seems like, with that being such an important position, one would have a short list ready when you fired Millen (seems like you could have started a list sometime over the past 8 years or so). No long range plan, no short range plan. The problems start at the top with William Clay Ford. (For those that asked that is the purpose of this thread). Getting rid of Millen solves very little IMO. Sorry Detroit. Your only hope was to snag the Tuna... look at what he did with last year's biggest loser. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, only ONE player drafted by the Lions in the 1st round from 2000-2005 is still on the team -- and that one player is Jeff Backus whose playing pretty terribly and should not be a starting left-tackle in the NFL. Since Marnelli didn't arrive on the scene until 2006, I think that the absolute failure in the 1st round (a round in which the Lions should be getting long-term contributors) falls on Millen. During Millen's time with the Lions, the Lions had 4 coaches (Morningweig, Mariucci, Jauron, & Marnelli) and consistently suffered from bad drafting, which, in the NFL in particular, can really put you in the hole when it comes to building a successful franchise. Now, there's a small chance that ALL 4 of these coaches were absolutely terrible talent/character evaluators and shabby draftniks; however, I think it's more likely, again, that Millen holds much of the blame. After all, from 2000-2008, the coaching staff changed (ALOT) but one thing remained the same: Matt Millen, President/GM. I will say that I think Ford deserves some blame as well -- considering that he's the owner and has shown little desire to improve the team and seems stuck in some kind of nepotistic business model, which is definitely killing the Lions' organization from the inside-out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,592 Posted November 29, 2008 So Marinelli had no input into draft choices at all? Millen just went rogue and pulled names out of his ? I think people under estimate how deep the problems in Detroit go. For example, no GM yet? Seems like, with that being such an important position, one would have a short list ready when you fired Millen (seems like you could have started a list sometime over the past 8 years or so). No long range plan, no short range plan. The problems start at the top with William Clay Ford. (For those that asked that is the purpose of this thread). Getting rid of Millen solves very little IMO. Sorry Detroit. Your only hope was to snag the Tuna... look at what he did with last year's biggest loser. Millen has had bad draft picks no matter who was the coach. Rod hasn't been there for them all. Millen isn't the whole problem. But he was the biggest. He did nothing good for the team. They were a half way decent team before he came. (thats like consistantly putting up 6-10 to 8-8 seasons fo the Lions) Once he came they have never been good. Total Idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,039 Posted November 29, 2008 The lions have made some good decisions with the firing of MM and the trade of ROY. However they have so many holes they really need to trade down as much as they can in the draft and try to fill holes. This season is a lost season. Stanton should be playing as much as possible and you should be pulling guys up from your practice squad that are hungry. Or guys from other teams practice squad. We suck and the mantra of maybe next year started after the first game for me. The lions have the unique ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory if they get close in any game so I am saying they are going to be the first O-fer in the league history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 128 Posted November 30, 2008 Millen was the Lions' President/GM from 200-2008. Below are the 1st round picks made during Millen's regime (players in BOLD are still with the team): 2000 OT Stocker McDougle 2001 OT Jeff Backus 2002 QB Joey Harrington 2003 WR Charles Rogers 2004 WR Roy Williams 2005 WR Mike Williams 2006 LB Ernie Sims 2007 WR Calvin Johnson 2008 OT Gosder Cherilus With the exception of one player (Backus in 2001), you'll notice that zero of the 1st round picks are still with the team from 2000-2005. In my mind, this falls squarely on Millen's shoulders as he's ultimately the guy in charge of choosing personnel in the draft. It's bad enough when a team misses on 1-2 1st round draft picks in a row. Millen appears to have missed on 1st rounders more often than not. I'm not sure where McDougle is. Backus is decent on the OL but should definitely not be the starting LT (as illustrated in yesterday's performance). Harrington is a perennial backup in the league. Rogers & MW are no longer in the league (to my knowledge). Roy is now with the Cowboys. It's still a little too early to make judgments on Sims, Johnson, or Cherilus in my opinion. Needless to say, I think the Lions set themselves back a long time by botching up so many 1st round picks over that 9-year span. Take it from a Saints fan, before anything else you need a GM and an owner who is willing to turn everything over to someone competent and let them do their job. The Saints started out with an owner in his late 20's, and hired some good coaches and some bad ones, but the GM's always were awful (they even hired an ex-astronaut, no kidding, and at one point the son of another owner as GM like it was a job making widgets in a factory or something). I know this is all going back in time, but when they finally got a real pro GM with real football knowledge and he was allowed to make decisions things changed. When that guy (Jim Finks) passed away and there was chaos in the front office (they went with a 3 man triumvirate) poor teams and Mike Ditka returned. It has been up and down depending on who the GM was and how he did. Obviously the Saints have never made a Super Bowl, but as someone who has sat through several Lions-type seasons it really is clear as day, you need a real longtime football-grounded GM to start and then everything else follows. And always, always, always build a team from the lines, without that nothing else is possible, and even if the picks or signings are mediocre things can never get that bad. Two more cases in point, maybe better ones: the Colts and Panthers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
