Carl Eller's Dead Liver 0 Posted January 24, 2009 So how good is Crabtree going to be? Calvin Johnson was a top 5 fantasy WR this year...in only his 2nd year in the league. Is Crabtree going to be in the same league as Calvin? Is Crabtree eventually an elite NFL WR? Bowe was top 20 in my fantasy leagues too, in just his 2nd year......I think Crabtree will be putting up those type of numbers very soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuse9 128 Posted January 24, 2009 So how good is Crabtree going to be? Calvin Johnson was a top 5 fantasy WR this year...in only his 2nd year in the league. Is Crabtree going to be in the same league as Calvin? Is Crabtree eventually an elite NFL WR? Bowe was top 20 in my fantasy leagues too, in just his 2nd year......I think Crabtree will be putting up those type of numbers very soon. Crabtree is not as good as Calvin Johnson. While he is the best in this class, he's no CJ. CJ is bigger, faster, stonger and has hands the size of castnets. It's hard to say if he'll be a top ten wr or not. If he goes to Seattle he has to compete with Dieon Branch, Bobby Engram, Nate Burleson and others just to get a decent amount of playing time. So, he may not even be the top wr on his own team. Historically rookie wr's don't do alot and I don't expect much out of Crabtree in his first year. He'll be good, but I would be surprized if he cracks the top ten. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl Eller's Dead Liver 0 Posted January 24, 2009 Crabtree is not as good as Calvin Johnson. While he is the best in this class, he's no CJ. CJ is bigger, faster, stonger and has hands the size of castnets. It's hard to say if he'll be a top ten wr or not. If he goes to Seattle he has to compete with Dieon Branch, Bobby Engram, Nate Burleson and others just to get a decent amount of playing time. So, he may not even be the top wr on his own team. Historically rookie wr's don't do alot and I don't expect much out of Crabtree in his first year. He'll be good, but I would be surprized if he cracks the top ten. Yeah, I am thinking for more long term than anything ("dynasty"), not next year. Maybe 2010, starting to see some returns on investment. I am in a dynasty leagues and I was wondering if it is worth trading up to get him. I do have Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Dewayne Bowe, and Lee Evans locked up for the next 7-8 years though.....so I guess grabbing Crabtree isn't a necessity. We start 3 WR's.....PPR league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuse9 128 Posted January 24, 2009 Yeah, I am thinking for more long term than anything ("dynasty"), not next year. Maybe 2010, starting to see some returns on investment. I am in a dynasty leagues and I was wondering if it is worth trading up to get him. I do have Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Dewayne Bowe, and Lee Evans locked up for the next 7-8 years though.....so I guess grabbing Crabtree isn't a necessity. We start 3 WR's.....PPR league. I think there is alot of great talent at wr in this years draft. Since you are sitting great at wr for the next 7 years or so I would go after a QB or RB with your pick A pick like Stafford or Sanchez could end up being gold. Say they go to the Lions and Chiefs, both have new GM's, Head Coaches and completely new looks. While they will most likely struggle their first year they could end up being studs within a few years. You can still grab a very good wr with a later pick. I'm very big on Britt this year, if you can grab him I highly advise it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl Eller's Dead Liver 0 Posted January 24, 2009 I think there is alot of great talent at wr in this years draft. Since you are sitting great at wr for the next 7 years or so I would go after a QB or RB with your pick A pick like Stafford or Sanchez could end up being gold. Say they go to the Lions and Chiefs, both have new GM's, Head Coaches and completely new looks. While they will most likely struggle their first year they could end up being studs within a few years. You can still grab a very good wr with a later pick. I'm very big on Britt this year, if you can grab him I highly advise it. Yeah, you are right.....to move up I'd have to give up either Bush, Chris Johnson, Jonathan Stewart, or Portis......I should sit tight....take a WR that falls to me at #11 or best available player. I know Britt will be gone by the time I pick though.....my friend said if he was there at 6 he'd take him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joey Gladstone 33 Posted January 24, 2009 Since there is a strong chance Seattle takes him I hope he gets as close to the Larry Fitzgerald comparisons as possible. I guess he's a step slower, but if he can be 3/4 of the player Fitz is I'll be a huge fan. He's not as polished as Larry was coming out of Pittsburgh. It would be wishful thinking that he's as classy (besides slapping NFL ugly cheerleaders). And the Calvin Johnson comparisons are false. Another WR with his skillset isn't alive as far as I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,542 Posted January 24, 2009 Crabtree is a great player. I'm not sure how he will do in the NFL though. The system he had and crappy Ds he faced really helped him in college. I think he will be a very good WR but not dynamic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madd futher mucker 36 Posted January 24, 2009 As Cuse said, this draft is pretty deep and at t # 11 a pretty good player will fall to you - the problem is - getting the right one. Remember that Matt Forte fell to the teens in most draffts last year. I've identified a half dozen RBs and about 7-8 WRs that are closer in talent than most people realize. After the NFL draft, it becomes a question of assessing the talent relative to the situation. Don't panic - and don't trade up. I'm pretty sure you may be able to pick a QUALITY RB or WR at #11. I just don't think the QB's or any of the TE's will be ahead of the top 11 WR/RBs who I might pick. Again, a lot will depends on who goes where on draft day, however. I really think that Crabtree is way over-rated on this board - not in the sense that he might not be worthy of the #1 pick, but rather than there are quite a few (more than I originally thought) who could be as good or better than Crabtree when their NFL career unfolds. Again the point is that this is a very deep draft at the top level - not much seperation. Crabtree is ranked #1 for the offensive skill positions because he is generally considered the SAFEST pick. He likely has the highest FLOOR - but I don't think he has the highest CEILING of all the players in the top tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XToday 0 Posted January 25, 2009 Crabtree is not as good as Calvin Johnson. While he is the best in this class, he's no CJ. CJ is bigger, faster, stonger and has hands the size of castnets. It's hard to say if he'll be a top ten wr or not. If he goes to Seattle he has to compete with Dieon Branch, Bobby Engram, Nate Burleson and others just to get a decent amount of playing time. So, he may not even be the top wr on his own team. Historically rookie wr's don't do alot and I don't expect much out of Crabtree in his first year. He'll be good, but I would be surprized if he cracks the top ten. And that's an Everest-like climb, there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocNiner 44 Posted January 25, 2009 I do think Crabtree will have a successful NFL career I don't think he'll be as good as Calvin Johnson. As said if he goes to Seattle there's a myriad of receivers for him to surpass just to get playing time. They have a new head coach and he's not going to be willing to depend on Crabtree when he has Branch,Burleson and Engram. There's also the QB situation to consider. Hasselbeck will be 34 in September and had a bulging disc problem in his back last year. Has that issue been resolved and can he return to form and stay healthy. His backup is Seneca Wallace who could, if H-Back is unable to perform and stay healthy, be the starting QB in week 1. I just think given the wr's currently on the roster, the state of the QB situation and a new head coach would make it very hard for Crabtree to be anything more than a #4 receiver on the Seahawks with minimal production this year. There's also Obamanu who was on IR last year as well.If they draft Crabtree surely some of those receivers are gonna be let go to make room for him. His dynasty value could be worthwhile though if you have a spot for him and can wait until he develops. There again though I think the whole crux to how good he ends up being lies in the QB situation. Given Hasselbeck's health issues, how long will he be around and can he return to close to top form and is Seneca Wallace the heir apparent to Hasselbeck. Crabtree may be very talented but it won't add up to squat if he doesn't have a QB that can play at a decent level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROCKET 0 Posted January 25, 2009 I like Crabtree but I'll be willing to bet he doesn't even end up being the best wr drafted in 09. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdswan922 0 Posted January 25, 2009 As Cuse said, this draft is pretty deep and at t # 11 a pretty good player will fall to you - the problem is - getting the right one. Remember that Matt Forte fell to the teens in most draffts last year. I've identified a half dozen RBs and about 7-8 WRs that are closer in talent than most people realize. After the NFL draft, it becomes a question of assessing the talent relative to the situation. Don't panic - and don't trade up. I'm pretty sure you may be able to pick a QUALITY RB or WR at #11. I just don't think the QB's or any of the TE's will be ahead of the top 11 WR/RBs who I might pick. Again, a lot will depends on who goes where on draft day, however. I really think that Crabtree is way over-rated on this board - not in the sense that he might not be worthy of the #1 pick, but rather than there are quite a few (more than I originally thought) who could be as good or better than Crabtree when their NFL career unfolds. Again the point is that this is a very deep draft at the top level - not much seperation. Crabtree is ranked #1 for the offensive skill positions because he is generally considered the SAFEST pick. He likely has the highest FLOOR - but I don't think he has the highest CEILING of all the players in the top tier. Forte was in the top 7 or 8 of most rookie drafts I saw. In my money league he went 4th. That being said, it is a deep rookie draft and there will be talent available in the 8-12 range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted January 25, 2009 It's a given the Lions will probably draft him... so please judge accordingly.. they are what? 1 for 5 when drafting WR's in the top 5? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuse9 128 Posted January 25, 2009 And that's an Everest-like climb, there... You underestimate what NFL experience can do for a player. Take a look what experience vs being rookie does for you. There is a reason that wr's breakout during year three, the experience of being in the NFL is greater than just pure talent. Examples: Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas were both round two draft picks last year and yet niether could get past Santana Moss, Randle El or James Thrash!? Craig Davis was a first rounder who couldn't get past Eric Parker, Vincent Jackson or Chris Chambers. Now you do have guys like Eddie Royal who surpassed expectations. However, Royal still wasn't close to cracking the top ten, which was the original question. Engram and Branch are both respectable wr's. Not great, but both have been in the league long enough that they definitly have an advantage over any rookie. Burleson could have been a very good wr last year if not for a week one injury. While you may think these three are a joke, I think they are decent and good enough to not allow Crabtree to become a top ten wr in his rookie year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XToday 0 Posted January 25, 2009 "Examples: Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas were both round two draft picks last year and yet niether could get past Santana Moss, Randle El or James Thrash!? Craig Davis was a first rounder who couldn't get past Eric Parker, Vincent Jackson or Chris Chambers." None of these guys were even remotely close to being in the same class as Crabtree. Kelly couldn't stay healthy, Thomas is too immature/dumb to pick up the playbook (I believe the coach said they have to 'spoonfeed' him), and Davis was always considered a reach in the first. Now I'm not saying Crabtree is going to be a stud year-1, because I do realize you've got to adjust and gain some experience, but I really don't think the guys ahead of him are an insurmountable obstacle-- especially if Seattle is starting over. If he's drafted by Seattle, he'll be the future of the franchise and face of the new administration. My guess is they'll want nothing more than to get him in there early to get over the growing pains and win the fans over with what he can do. IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,206 Posted January 25, 2009 Unless it is a dynasty/keeper, nevah draft a rookie WR except as a later round flyer. Let other people make those mistakes. YWIA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuse9 128 Posted January 25, 2009 "Examples:Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas were both round two draft picks last year and yet niether could get past Santana Moss, Randle El or James Thrash!? Craig Davis was a first rounder who couldn't get past Eric Parker, Vincent Jackson or Chris Chambers." None of these guys were even remotely close to being in the same class as Crabtree. Kelly couldn't stay healthy, Thomas is too immature/dumb to pick up the playbook (I believe the coach said they have to 'spoonfeed' him), and Davis was always considered a reach in the first. Now I'm not saying Crabtree is going to be a stud year-1, because I do realize you've got to adjust and gain some experience, but I really don't think the guys ahead of him are an insurmountable obstacle-- especially if Seattle is starting over. If he's drafted by Seattle, he'll be the future of the franchise and face of the new administration. My guess is they'll want nothing more than to get him in there early to get over the growing pains and win the fans over with what he can do. IMO Now being the future of a franchise and being top ten in year one is worlds apart! We've seen more "can't miss" stars flop than we've seen explode. Crabs will get his fair share of looks and may even take over as the #1 in Seatlle, but I don't see it happening this year. There are too many other options in Seattle to have Crabs post 1200 yds in his rookie campaign. It's possible, but not likely. If you don't think Devin Thomas skills coming into the leagure are "remotely close" to Crabtree you obviously never saw him play. Thomas has blazing speed, great hands and was super running after the catch. Crabtree is more polished for sure and is better coming out, but to say they're not even close shows that you buy into "right now" way to much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted January 25, 2009 Short answer, No. Long answer, No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted January 25, 2009 "Examples:Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas were both round two draft picks last year and yet niether could get past Santana Moss, Randle El or James Thrash!? Craig Davis was a first rounder who couldn't get past Eric Parker, Vincent Jackson or Chris Chambers." None of these guys were even remotely close to being in the same class as Crabtree. Kelly couldn't stay healthy, Thomas is too immature/dumb to pick up the playbook (I believe the coach said they have to 'spoonfeed' him), and Davis was always considered a reach in the first. Now I'm not saying Crabtree is going to be a stud year-1, because I do realize you've got to adjust and gain some experience, but I really don't think the guys ahead of him are an insurmountable obstacle-- especially if Seattle is starting over. If he's drafted by Seattle, he'll be the future of the franchise and face of the new administration. My guess is they'll want nothing more than to get him in there early to get over the growing pains and win the fans over with what he can do. IMO Crabtree is a talent, but as I've said before, he's a 2nd year WR (didn't even play the position in high school) in a freakin spread offense. I have no doubt that in a couple of years he'll start to display his skills but I firmly believe the learning curve will be quite steep for a while. He'll have moments this year, more next year, but he's not going to compare to Calvin in my estimation in how he affects a game early in his career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonewall 647 Posted January 26, 2009 Does former 1st round pick, Mike Williams, ring any bells? Just sayin'...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
