Could you turn this team into a champion?

[Super Cubs 132]

10 team, standard scoring, no ppr, keep 7, limit of 6 waiver picks

Start 1- QB, 2- RB, 2- WR/TE, 1- K, 1- Def, and 1 Flex QB, RB, or WR/TE

No 1st or 3rd round pick

 

QB - Alex Smith, Garrard, Delhomme, Orton

RB- AP, Pierre Thomas, Forte, Lynch, K Smith, Moats

WR/TE- S Smith (Car), Bowe, Mason, Holt, Roy Williams

K- Kris Brown, Racker

Def- Dallas

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

on the plus side the team has AP, Pierre Thomas situation got better with the Mike Bell departure, if (when) Lynch is traded that will help you, the other backs have potential.

 

Steve Smith should benefit from a full year of Matt Moore

 

Alex Smith will surprise some people.

 

non ppr means weaker WR's wont kill you AS much and you can start 3 RB's and only 2 WR/TE anyway.

[Corky76 2]

In a 10-team league, that has to be one of the weaker teams for sure. No 1st round pick hurts big time this year too. I think it'll take a year or two to rebuild a dynasty team like that. Outside of AP, Pierre, and Smith I think the rest of the team is very weak for a 10-team format.

 

I would've loved that team heading into last year though. What a difference a year makes......

[shovelheadt 62]

It would take two off seasons/drafts to get that team close to championship quality. Basically, AP is the only one that isn't old, average or carrying baggage.

[Super Cubs 132]

Thanks for the replies. I figure this team will take more than the draft to fix.

 

If you were to trade a player who would it be?

 

Since there is no limit on how long you can keep a player would you consider trading AP for Brees?

[tubby_mcgee 686]

10 team, standard scoring, no ppr, keep 7, limit of 6 waiver picks

Start 1- QB, 2- RB, 2- WR/TE, 1- K, 1- Def, and 1 Flex QB, RB, or WR/TE

No 1st or 3rd round pick

 

QB - Alex Smith, Garrard, Delhomme, Orton

RB- AP, Pierre Thomas, Forte, Lynch, K Smith, Moats

WR/TE- S Smith (Car), Bowe, Mason, Holt, Roy Williams

K- Kris Brown, Racker

Def- Dallas

 

 

Turn them into a champion? Ummmmm.....this is fantasy football. If you only have garbage (I'm not saying you do, just making a point), you can only trade for garbage, basically. That's my opinion.

 

Or were you looking for this kind of answer:

 

I think that this is a group of players that could work well together. Good ethics, and the will to win. Plus some good leaders to show the young ones the ropes. So yes, I think they could be turned into a champion.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Turn them into a champion? Ummmmm.....this is fantasy football. If you only have garbage (I'm not saying you do, just making a point), you can only trade for garbage, basically. That's my opinion.

 

Or were you looking for this kind of answer:

 

I think that this is a group of players that could work well together. Good ethics, and the will to win. Plus some good leaders to show the young ones the ropes. So yes, I think they could be turned into a champion.

 

[jdon 28]

what can you get for ADP? it might be time to sell the present in favor of the future...

jdon

 

 

ps. same thing goes for steve smith but don't sell him until four weeks in and he is lighting it up.

[madd futher mucker 36]

10 team, standard scoring, no ppr, keep 7, limit of 6 waiver picks

Start 1- QB, 2- RB, 2- WR/TE, 1- K, 1- Def, and 1 Flex QB, RB, or WR/TE

No 1st or 3rd round pick

 

QB - Alex Smith, Garrard, Delhomme, Orton

RB- AP, Pierre Thomas, Forte, Lynch, K Smith, Moats

WR/TE- S Smith (Car), Bowe, Mason, Holt, Roy Williams

K- Kris Brown, Racker

Def- Dallas

 

With no 1st and 3rd to work with and the talent you have, IMHO you have at least a 3 year project here....and only a talented owner could get there in three. That rule limiting waiver pick-ups to six per season (if I'm reading this correctly) also puts a severe restriction on your ability to significantly improve through waiver maneuvering. So i would say it would take lots of luck and great trading ability to get it done. So this is not a team that I would invest money into trying to fix. If you are thinking of buying into this one there are better situations for sale.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[crowes 1]

Team def needs help, I barely see 7 i would keep- ASmith(I like but most don't rate too high) AP,PT, stretch for forte and further for KSmith, Steve Smith- love the guy, but wow, not as a 1... I do Like Bowe this year kinda alot... but that doesn't get you much now does it?

If it's me I move AP. Without a 1 and 3 this year I think by the time you draft talent- 2yrs?- AP is sliding. No way i 1 for 1 him, Brees or anyone. I would look to package AP and Steve Smith to someone for a 5-10 RB an upgrade at WR maybe a QB in the range of Flacco to Cassel (9-17) a pick and maybe another gamble pick at WR or best you can do (top D or good + TE, you have room for a 7th keep?). I would easily throw KSmith in the deal or play Forte up and part with him if you can get something sexy. Sounds like alot but if you look to move AP someone will show up. If your team is this bad I guess a few teams have plenty in a 10 team league.

You need 4 good players in a deal and I wouldn't wait til week 1 on Steve Smith because he might not happen this year.

Good Luck. and I would also petition to move to unlimited waiver wire moves- you need next years Miles Austin and Jamaal Charles, might take 15 pick ups to do it!!

[throttlers 0]

I am going to be in the minority here. I would try to move PT rather than ADP. People are higher on PT than they should be with Bell leaving. When Favre retires....again......it will go back to being all about ADP.

 

You have a couple of potential solid RBs behind ADP. Forte should bounce back even with Taylor there. If Lynch goes to SD he could be a top 10 RB.

 

Your QB situation is shakey obviously.

 

S.Smith could easily be a top 5 and definitely a top 10 WR for this year but has limited long term value. Bowe is a decent #2

 

I would look to move PT for an upgrade at QB or WR.

 

You definitely need some breaks to go your way, especially with your RBs, but it is definitely possible to make the playoffs with this team. Championship...not so mcuh.

[PackYourNut 47]

I'm in the minority here as well as I dont think you are too far off if a couple of fortuitous things happen. Number 1 being if Lynch goes to SD. If that's the case the you have 4 stud/potential stud RB's. I would offer up one of them, preferably Forte and a QB to a team that has 2 quality QB's like a Rodgers/Kolb type of scenario. That would give you a huge upgrade at your weakest position. Next, you need to address the WR position, which can be done with a 2nd round pick for sure. Mason, Holt have maybe 1 year left if that and Roy Williams is trash. SS doesnt want to be a #1 anymore and is getting old. Bowe is a good #2 for sure. If you could land the best WR available in the 2nd round and then find another in the 4th you will be okay. Next year, you bolster the WR position again assuming your QB worked out.

 

 

If you do that, you should be able to compete for a championship next year.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

i dont get the negativity about this team. I really don't

 

Starting lineup

QB - Alex Smith

RB - ADP

RB - PT

RB/WR - you have options. Forte, K.Smith, Mason

WR - Smith

WR - Bowe

 

If Lynch gets traded to a nice situation... bingo.

 

You also have players with trade value in ADP and PT. Some people are still high on Forte as a "buy low". As someone else mentioned, I think Smith will blow up early, might be able to trade him after that. Certainly your hands are not tied with old players nobody wants.

 

Also, you are in a position to take BPA with that 2nd (9th) round pick. I'd probably put more emphasis on WR/TE or QB though.

 

Obviously this is a 10 team league but I dont think your roster is one that will take 3 years to be competative. A few frugal trades, Lynch getting traded, and making good use of your 6 waiver moves and you should be in very nice shape.

 

7 I would keep - ADP, PT, Lynch, Forte, S.Smith, Bowe, A.Smith

 

Also, if trading is allowed right now, I would be looking to make some moves. Guys you won't keep like Kevin Smith and guys who are borderline like Forte might be valuable to someone else looking for a final keeper. You may be able to package Kevin Smith and Bowe for a better WR

[Stewburtx8 67]

If I'm reading this right, it says ONE Flex QB, RB, or WR.

 

If this is the case, then I assume most people start 2 QB's. It also makes your QB situation that much worse.

I think getting a QB should be the top priority.

 

Now if that is just a normal RB/WR flex, then I agree with WW and some others that your team is not that far off. You could still use a QB upgrade, but Alex Smith isn't a terrible option. You also could use a #1 WR, but Bowe and Smith are both solid #2's. I think your RB situation is very good though.

[Super Cubs 132]

If I'm reading this right, it says ONE Flex QB, RB, or WR.

 

If this is the case, then I assume most people start 2 QB's. It also makes your QB situation that much worse.

I think getting a QB should be the top priority.

 

Now if that is just a normal RB/WR flex, then I agree with WW and some others that your team is not that far off. You could still use a QB upgrade, but Alex Smith isn't a terrible option. You also could use a #1 WR, but Bowe and Smith are both solid #2's. I think your RB situation is very good though.

You are reading it right flex can be one QB, RB, or WR/TE.

 

Most teams do start two QBs. Most teams keep two qbs.

 

Trading opened monday after super bowl sunday. All trades are good we can also trade keeper spots and waiver picks.

 

PT was aquired for the 1st and 3rd round picks last season.

 

 

This team was offered to me and I have 1st shot at it. Was in the league about 5 years ago. Once a trade has been made involving picks for the next season the owner is automaticly back in but this owner is moving and the commish wants him out. The commish wants owners he knows and trust. Not friends of a friend of a friend. Most likely will take it but waiting till after the NFL draft to make official.

[PackYourNut 47]

Well, Sh!t! You need a QB bad then... I'd try to get Kolb, Henne, Lienart/Anderson or something along those lines for a lesser RB or 2for1 deal. If that doesnt pan out, I'd make every RB on your roster available and get a stud QB. Just take the best deal that comes along.

 

You can't win with that team in a 2QB league.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

i really hate 2 qb, non ppr leagues.

 

i play in a PPR that allows you to start a QB at the flex and what it boils down to is average to shitty QB's outscoring average RB's and WR's all the time.

 

some teams still play RB's or WR's at the flex because a good RB or WR in PPR will outscore a mediocre QB (assuming 4 pt passing TD's)

 

but it still annoys me so I can only imagine that in non PPR, mediocre QB's probably outscore even good RB's and WR's so there is no incentive to start anything but a QB at flex.

[ratbastard1 0]

Study hard and pounce on underrated players quickly. I think you should trade ADP and PThomas. Take ADP and go get a young RB like Stewart and a guy like SRice. Turn right around and sell Rice for a guy lilke Hicks and a pick, or something like that. 1 for 2s are good for you. You might be able to sneak in the playoffs and make some noise, then be better for 2011.

[madd futher mucker 36]

The reason for my negativity was not so much anything else but the league rule limiting waiver wire pick-ups to only six. That is a hugely restrictive rule that IMO takes away your best avenue for improving your team and favors the 'status quo'. If you have a team that 'needs help', active waiver wire management is an essential ingredient to improving it.

 

So i refuse to look at this team through rose-colored glasses and say that you could compete in a 10 teamer very soon.

[Super Cubs 132]

The reason for my negativity was not so much anything else but the league rule limiting waiver wire pick-ups to only six. That is a hugely restrictive rule that IMO takes away your best avenue for improving your team and favors the 'status quo'. If you have a team that 'needs help', active waiver wire management is an essential ingredient to improving it.

 

So i refuse to look at this team through rose-colored glasses and say that you could compete in a 10 teamer very soon.

The limit is to give them value since we can trade them. It also keeps owners from whoring up the ww.

[madd futher mucker 36]

The limit is to give them value since we can trade them. It also keeps owners from whoring up the ww.

 

Look, anyone who would pay money to take this team is out of their goard, given A. the quality of the team, B. no 1st or 3rd round draft picks, and C. a 6 waiver wire limit.

 

You can defend the 6 waiver wire limit all you want to, but if the league had a fairly standard "worst record first" syster of waiver wire selection, this team would have a chance. If you had a waiver auction format option, which MFL leagues have, you could create value and at least reward the owners who are better talent evaluators and wiser with their auction dollars.

Neither of these waiver systems allow for "waiver whoring". I love the waiver auction format because of the skill required, but I think the "worst gets first" is the only real way to get enough parity to make this team an eventual winner. The 6 waiver wire limit is a bunch of BS in my opinion, and a disincentive to maintain continuity in your league.

 

Personally, I don't really give a sh1t one way or the other since I'd never join your league nor take this team. The team is nowhere near competitive in a 10 team league, and the waiver limit rule only serves to make it almost impossible to make it so in the near future. You asked rhetorically "could you turn this team into a champion?" I consider myself a fairly talentd and successful fantasy owner, and you just got my answer.

[Mad Brad 0]

Um NO.... Team Stinks...

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Look, anyone who would pay money to take this team is out of their goard, given A. the quality of the team, B. no 1st or 3rd round draft picks, and C. a 6 waiver wire limit.

 

You can defend the 6 waiver wire limit all you want to, but if the league had a fairly standard "worst record first" syster of waiver wire selection, this team would have a chance. If you had a waiver auction format option, which MFL leagues have, you could create value and at least reward the owners who are better talent evaluators and wiser with their auction dollars.

Neither of these waiver systems allow for "waiver whoring". I love the waiver auction format because of the skill required, but I think the "worst gets first" is the only real way to get enough parity to make this team an eventual winner. The 6 waiver wire limit is a bunch of BS in my opinion, and a disincentive to maintain continuity in your league.

 

Personally, I don't really give a sh1t one way or the other since I'd never join your league nor take this team. The team is nowhere near competitive in a 10 team league, and the waiver limit rule only serves to make it almost impossible to make it so in the near future. You asked rhetorically "could you turn this team into a champion?" I consider myself a fairly talentd and successful fantasy owner, and you just got my answer.

 

his roster is better than yours in "Real Deal"

 

and the trash tallking begins!

 

**this in no way represents my actual beliefs**

 

 

 

 

but i am a little surprised you have such a negative view of his team, regardless of a waiver wire limit or a lack of 8th and 10th round picks.

[Super Cubs 132]

Look, anyone who would pay money to take this team is out of their goard, given A. the quality of the team, B. no 1st or 3rd round draft picks, and C. a 6 waiver wire limit.

 

You can defend the 6 waiver wire limit all you want to, but if the league had a fairly standard "worst record first" syster of waiver wire selection, this team would have a chance. If you had a waiver auction format option, which MFL leagues have, you could create value and at least reward the owners who are better talent evaluators and wiser with their auction dollars.

Neither of these waiver systems allow for "waiver whoring". I love the waiver auction format because of the skill required, but I think the "worst gets first" is the only real way to get enough parity to make this team an eventual winner. The 6 waiver wire limit is a bunch of BS in my opinion, and a disincentive to maintain continuity in your league.

 

Personally, I don't really give a sh1t one way or the other since I'd never join your league nor take this team. The team is nowhere near competitive in a 10 team league, and the waiver limit rule only serves to make it almost impossible to make it so in the near future. You asked rhetorically "could you turn this team into a champion?" I consider myself a fairly talentd and successful fantasy owner, and you just got my answer.

Just courious how many times did you use the waiver wire last season in your main league and how deep is the roster?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Just courious how many times did you use the waiver wire last season in your main league and how deep is the roster?

 

im sure MFM is a guy who regularly scours the wire.

 

and he is completely right. limiting waiver wire pick ups is stupid. a waiver wire in the first place can't really be abused if its set up for lower teams to have first priority.

 

but since everyone has to deal with the same rule, i don't think its anything that would keep a team from being competative.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

bottom line is, this team has a bit of talent.

 

You have the best RB in a non PPR format. You also have PT. You have Steve Smith.

 

You have a trio of backs that have at least some upside or potential (Forte, K.Smith, Lynch)

 

You have a good young WR on a bad team (Bowe)

 

Your problem area is QB and its really only a big problem because of the flex rule. I like Alex Smith as a sleeper QB this year but ofcourse, id prefer if he was your backup not your top option. With that in mind I think this team could be 1 or 2 good trades away from being competative if you land a better QB.

[madd futher mucker 36]

his roster is better than yours in "Real Deal"

 

and the trash tallking begins!

 

**this in no way represents my actual beliefs**

but i am a little surprised you have such a negative view of his team, regardless of a waiver wire limit or a lack of 8th and 10th round picks.

 

WhiteWonder: You are right as usual, Wonder, this team IS better than mine. But I am "the original waiver wire 'ho' to the max" so fixing MY team should be no problem for me. Your team, on the other hand appears to me to be an un-fixable perrenial bottom dweller.

 

Mainly because the owner has no clue about how to manage a team. Also because in order to be the best, you have to beat the best, which just ain't gonna happen. Let the games begin my friend.

 

 

 

 

Note to Super Cubs: My standard redraft league, my auction redraft league and my deep keeper league all have limits of 25 transaction/season (this includes trades, WW and free agent pick-ups. All of these leagues have variations of "worst gets first". I consistently make the play-offs in these leagues. I average about 5 trades and 20 waiver or free agent pick-ups in each league. Despite the fact that I'm not favored by the "worst gets first" waiver priority method, in each of these leagues I use all 25 transactions EVERY YEAR in each league. My other two leagues are dynasty or hybrid-dynasty leagues which have NO transaction limits. One of them is "worst gets first", and the other has blind auctions every week for free agent pick-ups, with each team having $200 waiver bucks to spend over the course of the season for free agents. I love that method; it adds fun and another layer of skill. While it does nothing to promote parity of the teams in the league, it does not "punish" teams with better owners regardless of the quality of their team, so that an owner can buy into a bad team if the league has an opening, and if he's good enough he has all the tools to turn it around. My leagues vary in roster size from 16 to 22 player rosters. Four are 12 teamers and one is a 10 teamer.

 

I play in 5 distinctly different formats and all of my leagues are "my main league". I play to win them all - with equal skill and determination. The fee amount or the prize payout of the league does not factor into my decision making processes or amount of time spent on each team. It is exactly like how I play poker - I play with equal skill and passion whether I'm playing $0.25-$0.50 blinds or $10-$20 blinds.

[Super Cubs 132]

When the league was started it was some what before the internet and we had two 3 round supplemental drafts. We now have 6 picks we can use as needed. The the ww shuts down 8 week. Since it is a keeper league week 8 most teams are still in the hunt. It is to keep teams from stock piling with prospects. It helps promote trades and adds another level of strategy.

 

With 20+ waiver moves did you rotate kickers and def every week?

[madd futher mucker 36]

No. Having 'only' about 20 WW transactions doesn't allow for the luxury of rotating K and D/ST. Even with a 25 transaction limit, WW transactions are too valuable for that. With 16 man rosters, I am constantly looking to upgrade the bottom of my roster - and some of those upgrades turn into Mike Wallaces, Jerome Harrisons, Jermichael Finleys or even Miles Austins. You need a liberal or unlimited WW rule with a "worst gets first" system to turn this team into a contenter quickly. Since I seldom have an early WW pick (although it some of the leagues we play a "relaxed" version of "worst goes first"), I have learned to think ahead of the break-out and beat the bottom dwellers to the punch. This means reading tweets and beat writer blogs. I have at times placed calls to team beat writers and asked what's up with player X? A guy who won one of my leagues picked up Aromashodu the very week he was activated from the practice squad. He had read a beat writer blog that the guy was embarrasing 1st string DBs in practices while playing for the 'scout' team. I picked up Jerome Harrison when I first heard that Jamaal Lewis was seriously considering retirement. Skilled owners get a feel for these things. Sometimes this means being wrong, but I constantly "fiddle" with my roster - either by trades or by pick-ups.

 

I believe that fantasy football has at least three "skill" components that can differentiate winners from losers:

1. The draft - in both re-draft leagues and in dynasty leagues, skillful drafting is important - even knowing that there will be a considerable element of luck.

2. Roster management - trades when appropriate, or "playing the wire". This can be at least equally significant to fantasy success as the draft is. The ability to obtain good team depth depends on this for sure. And it is a learned "skill".

3. Weekly TEAM management - There are very few "plug and play" players in a competitive league. I always consider the match-ups: for instance, is my preferred WR going against a shut-down corner? I try always to insert my optimal line-up and not leave points on the bench.

 

I think the rules of that league need to be changed because they are making a weaker team try to compete without all the potential weapons to improve. WhiteWonder said that the severe WW limit is an equal disadvantage for all teams. I disagree. If a skilled owner takes over a weaker team, it is much harder to catch up to the stronger teams because the rules are basically taking away an important element for being able to do so. I would have no problem buying that team if the WW limit restriction was removed or greatly relaxed. And if you want to "invest" to play with and contribute to your friends for 4 or more years, go ahead. But in my early fantasy years, I took a team with tight roster restrictions like this and after the first two years, I realized that I was gonna be a "contributor" for quite a few more. In most dynasty or keeper leagues, there are the "haves", the ones in the middle, and the "have nots". And there is a significant talent disparity between the contributers (have-nots), and the winners (haves). If your team realistically is a "have not", it could take you years to bring it to the top talent level without one of the main "skill" components needed to get it done.

 

I also disagree with your premise that tight waiver wire restrictions promote trading. I've never been in a league where there was NOT active trading. IMO, most owners except the most insecure ones in thier ability to evaluate talent like to trade, or at least are constantly looking for trades they think will improve their team. . A trade "mentality" in a league is promoted by simply letting owners trade without concern about the threat of vetos. Trading is promoted most by having basically an "anything goes except collusion" attitude toward vetoes. So i would never join an existing league where there had been more than one veto in the last 5 years unless there was a significant recent change in the veto rules.

 

What owners WON'T do is waste their time 'scheming' up trades only for them to be vetoed by other jealous owners (or an overly judgmental commissioner) because the trade doesn't meet somebody's idea of a "fair" trade.

[Super Cubs 132]

I would not say its a have not but in the middle. There are needs and questions but its also has 3 maybe 4 players with trade value. I look for Lynch to be the key to setting up this team for the future. If he does get traded to a team that will allow him to carry most of the load or SD. You know some owners will look at him as the next LT and be willing to overpay. If he does not get traded then I move on to the next plan. After seeing all the rosters there are 2 teams stacked at QB and are in need af a RB. I have no problem trading AP, PT, or any player for the right price. I've also been known to make an offer that an owner can't refuse. But that usually involves a player and my first round pick which I would not have.

 

All trades are good with no vetos.

[madd futher mucker 36]

This team is much further from winning than you believe. You'll find my opinion of Lynch in the post below titled "Step 1 - let the mentor(ing) begin" by davidbostonisgood. If you think Lynch is the key to turning this team into a contender, then good luck with that.

 

To win in a ten team league, you realistically need a minimum of six top tier players and six second tier players. This team has 3 top tier players and maybe 2 (or three) second tier ones. I don't consider Lynch or even Forte even a second tier RB at this point. And I think that Forte has a slightly better chance to rebound than Lynch does. If one of those two actually pans out, you are still significantly short of what you'll need to win the league. Additionally due to the equally dumb QB is flex rule, this is essentially a two QB league. QBs are gold in this league and this team has pyrite. There is no QB on the team that I have ranked even in the top 20. (Alex Smith and Orton are ranked 23rd and 24th).

 

If you do take this team, I'll be interested to know how it works out for you over the next 2-3 years. PM me with updates.

[stonewall 647]

Tis team is much further from winning than you believe. You'll find my opinion of Lynch in the post below titled "Step 1 - let the mentor(ing) begin" by davidbostonisgood. If you think Lynch is the key to turning this team into a contender, then good luck with that.

 

To win in a ten team league, you realistically need a minimum of six top tier players and six second tier players. This team has 3 top tier players and maybe 2 (or three) second tier ones. I don't consider Lynch or even Forte even a second tier RB at this point. And I think that Forte has a slightly better chance to rebound than Lynch does. If one of those two actually pans out, you are still significantly short of what you'll need to win the league. Additionally due to the equally dumb QB is flex rule, this is essentially a two QB league. QBs are gold in this league and this team has pyrite. There is no QB on the team that I have ranked even in the top 20. (Alex Smith and Orton are ranked 23rd and 24th).

 

If you do take this team, I'll be interested to know how it works out for you over the next 2-3 years. PM me with updates.

 

 

+1