RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 So she dropped the price of the home, which she bought for $320,000 in 1994, to $455,000, but still found no takers. She signed a contract earlier this month to sell for under $400,000, with plans to close in October. "I was firm about how low I was willing to go. I guess I've changed my view," Smith said. In this market, "The buyer really does set the price. If you are firm, that means you're waiting. You're not going to sell right now. You're going to have to wait until the market comes to what you think it should sell for. I was tired of waiting. I'm really ready to go." Rink No sh!t eh? One down......many more to go.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 Rink No sh!t eh? One down......many more to go.... The buyer set the price when I sold my home but somehow I was the bad guy in your eyes. A little consistency and less hypocrisy might help your cause. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted August 26, 2010 Rink No sh!t eh? One down......many more to go.... depends on the product, good well cared for houses are getting snapped up quick in good markets... There is an immediate fight over them... They'll go to agreement within a week or two... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 The buyer set the price when I sold my home but somehow I was the bad guy in your eyes. A little consistency and less hypocrisy might help your cause. The buyer was an idiot who payed little more than extorition to you and the bank. FOr that buyer, house, face, family..... What the buyer SHOULD have done was call you on the bullsh!t price and made a proper offer or walked away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 depends on the product, good well cared for houses are getting snapped up quick in good markets... There is an immediate fight over them... They'll go to agreement within a week or two... Every market is different. There are plenty of markets where the fraud was minimal, and the correction has already transpired. And then there are others.....regardless, if you are in the right place you can get a house for its proper price, or perhaps even sell it for its proper price....and since there is an idiot born every minute, you might even be able to gouge them for twice the actual value... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 The buyer was an idiot who payed little more than extorition to you and the bank. FOr that buyer, house, face, family..... What the buyer SHOULD have done was call you on the bullsh!t price and made a proper offer or walked away. Maybe. Either way I did nothing wrong but offer a house for the prevailing price at the time. The point is, you're making a big deal about how the buyer sets the price in this story, yet in my case it made me a bad guy. That's the definition of hypocrisy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Maybe. Either way I did nothing wrong but offer a house for the prevailing price at the time. The point is, you're making a big deal about how the buyer sets the price in this story, yet in my case it made me a bad guy. That's the definition of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. Nope, I am not pretending to have anything.... Instead of droning on for page after page, lets cut to the quick and acknowledge right up front that we simply agree to disagree. You thinks its fine to gouge people if you can get a profit, and I think that deriving profit at the injury of others is wrong. You offered a bullsh!t price and took advantage of an idiot, and hey...that is free market, that is capitalism...but capitalism without morality is piracy....nothing more....therefore, you are little better than Bernie Madoff..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. Nope, I am not pretending to have anything.... Instead of droning on for page after page, lets cut to the quick and acknowledge right up front that we simply agree to disagree. You thinks its fine to gouge people if you can get a profit, and I think that deriving profit at the injury of others is wrong. You offered a bullsh!t price and took advantage of an idiot, and hey...that is free market, that is capitalism...but capitalism without morality is piracy....nothing more....therefore, you are little better than Bernie Madoff..... So does the buyer set the price or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted August 26, 2010 I heard your mom "gets it". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted August 26, 2010 Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. Nope, I am not pretending to have anything.... Instead of droning on for page after page, lets cut to the quick and acknowledge right up front that we simply agree to disagree. You thinks its fine to gouge people if you can get a profit, and I think that deriving profit at the injury of others is wrong. You offered a bullsh!t price and took advantage of an idiot, and hey...that is free market, that is capitalism...but capitalism without morality is piracy....nothing more....therefore, you are little better than Bernie Madoff..... You cant fault the guy for someones stupidity. Are you mad at Starbucks because they charge 5 bucks for a cup of coffee? Or what about at hotels when they charge $2.50 for a coke in their vending machine? I would hardly call that piracy. He set the price, someone bought it. If they didn't do their due diligence, then that is their fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 So does the buyer set the price or not? Hmmmmm, let's say the buyer can afford.....$2000/a month....right? And the bank creates a loan that costs the buyer $2000 per month, but that loan is actually for $850K, so say you sold them your house for $850k.....tell me, who set the price? Then, when the market sours and the person can no longer afford the payment because its not at $100 a month, and this happens as such a frequency that the domestic economy is brought to the brink of destruction.....businesses fail, and the money you collected is now worth far less....but that is fine, because gouging that person was your "right"? Nah, not gonna buy into that.....not today Bernie.....but raping people is good business of that is your thing..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 You cant fault the guy for someones stupidity. Are you mad at Starbucks because they charge 5 bucks for a cup of coffee? Or what about at hotels when they charge $2.50 for a coke in their vending machine? I would hardly call that piracy. He set the price, someone bought it. If they didn't do their due diligence, then that is their fault. Interesting analogy,......so you are suggesting that homes should all be the same price across a market? And its OK to ruin the home values in your community and jeopardize jobs of other people so long as you get profit? How is that different from what Bernie Madoff did? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 Hmmmmm, let's say the buyer can afford.....$2000/a month....right? And the bank creates a loan that costs the buyer $2000 per month, but that loan is actually for $850K, so say you sold them your house for $850k.....tell me, who set the price? Then, when the market sours and the person can no longer afford the payment because its not at $100 a month, and this happens as such a frequency that the domestic economy is brought to the brink of destruction.....businesses fail, and the money you collected is now worth far less....but that is fine, because gouging that person was your "right"? Nah, not gonna buy into that.....not today Bernie.....but raping people is good business of that is your thing..... I wish I could have gotten 850k!!!!!! That would have been sweet!!!! Now you got me thinking I set the asking price too low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 I wish I could have gotten 850k!!!!!! That would have been sweet!!!! Now you got me thinking I set the asking price too low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted August 26, 2010 Interesting analogy,......so you are suggesting that homes should all be the same price across a market? And its OK to ruin the home values in your community and jeopardize jobs of other people so long as you get profit? How is that different from what Bernie Madoff did? Madoff stole money, he lied, he had a plan and knew he was never going to give ANYTHING of value back to these people. I fail to see where that is even close to the same thing. Nor do I see where i said homes should all be the same price or any of the other things you suggested. All I'm saying is that you are mad at the guy who sold his house for what he could get, instead of being upset at the buyer for not doing their due diligence. That makes ZERO sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted August 26, 2010 I equate this to your pay (assuming you work). If your boss thinks you are worth X and you think that you are worth Y, then the only real way to determine who is right is to see if someone else will give you Y. The market essentially dictates it. If you have someone willing to meet your asking price on a home, then that is the value of that home. It does not matter if that exact same house goes for less somewhere else. The value is what someone else is willing to pay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted August 26, 2010 All I'm saying is that you are mad at the guy who sold his house for what he could get, instead of being upset at the buyer for not doing their due diligence. That makes ZERO sense. Now you have RLLD figured out on this issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,360 Posted August 26, 2010 You might want to delete this thread, RLLD. Strike kinda won it on more then one occasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 You might want to delete this thread, RLLD. Strike kinda won it on more then one occasion. Pretty sure I won the same thread three years ago too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Madoff stole money, he lied, he had a plan and knew he was never going to give ANYTHING of value back to these people. I fail to see where that is even close to the same thing. Nor do I see where i said homes should all be the same price or any of the other things you suggested. All I'm saying is that you are mad at the guy who sold his house for what he could get, instead of being upset at the buyer for not doing their due diligence. That makes ZERO sense. I am stating that capitalism without morality is piracy. Madoff did give money back to people, but that does not absolve him any more than "everybody else was selling their house for that much" would for those who sold at completely bullsh!t prices. I am furious at the government, the banks, the buyers and the sellers.....they have allowed their unmitigated greed to bring us where we are, and place is directly in the cross hairs of a loaded gun, with the hammer cocked. The only issue people have with me is that I refuse to allow the sellers off the hook......and people like strike want to believe that the sellers should have no culpability, and I disagree...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 You might want to delete this thread, RLLD. Strike kinda won it on more then one occasion. Nah, he has never won.....and as stated many times over.....I sourced pretty much everything I posted while he never has, and if people arrive at that "aha" moment to see him for the perversion that he is, so much the better..... people need to rethink how they live, otherwise we simply relive this over and over.....unless we crash and burn completely.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted August 26, 2010 I am stating that capitalism without morality is piracy. Madoff did give money back to people, but that does not absolve him any more than "everybody else was selling their house for that much" would for those who sold at completely bullsh!t prices. I am furious at the government, the banks, the buyers and the sellers.....they have allowed their unmitigated greed to bring us where we are, and place is directly in the cross hairs of a loaded gun, with the hammer cocked. The only issue people have with me is that I refuse to allow the sellers off the hook......and people like strike want to believe that the sellers should have no culpability, and I disagree...... Two words... caveat emptor. Buyers have culpability in this just as much as anyone else. At some point, we have to stop the "blame everyone else for my mistakes" game that is helping to cause the pussification of America. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Now you have RLLD figured out on this issue. Do you really want me to dig out the dozens of threads that have dis proven this over and over again? I thought we were past this tired and weak attempt.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 Nah, he has never won.....and as stated many times over.....I sourced pretty much everything I posted while he never has, and if people arrive at that "aha" moment to see him for the perversion that he is, so much the better..... people need to rethink how they live, otherwise we simply relive this over and over.....unless we crash and burn completely.... I sourced plenty of things. But I'm curious. What did you source that suggested sellers should sell at lower than market value. I'm pretty sure you NEVER sourced something like that. But hey, you've lied about sh*t before. No reason to stop now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted August 26, 2010 Hmmmmm, let's say the buyer can afford... Once you say this, then it ceases to be anyone else's responsibility other than the buyer's. Strike Wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Two words... caveat emptor. Buyers have culpability in this just as much as anyone else. At some point, we have to stop the "blame everyone else for my mistakes" game that is helping to cause the pussification of America. But, what if you did not buy....but still lose your job because so many did? And what if you also had your investments cut in half? And what if YOUR home is suddenly worthless? How is does caveat emptor apply? So avoiding ones own culpability is ok, gotcha.....that is being the biggest and worst kind of pvssy... Capitalism works only within a strong moral framework that creates social trust. Absent a common moral sense restraining our worst impulses, capitalism becomes a kind of piracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted August 26, 2010 Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. Nope, I am not pretending to have anything.... Instead of droning on for page after page, lets cut to the quick and acknowledge right up front that we simply agree to disagree. You thinks its fine to gouge people if you can get a profit, and I think that deriving profit at the injury of others is wrong. You offered a bullsh!t price and took advantage of an idiot, and hey...that is free market, that is capitalism...but capitalism without morality is piracy....nothing more....therefore, you are little better than Bernie Madoff..... you generally seem fairly knowedgeable, but you are missing the point on how markets work. Its all done on comperable sales to determine valuation. That value and price offered are a direct result of previous transactions... These deals don't happen in a vacuum. You can't isolate it that way and determine anything meaningful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Once you say this, then it ceases to be anyone else's responsibility other than the buyer's. Strike Wins. How convenient that you left out the rest...which clearly shows that they could not afford it, unless the fraud were put in place to hide it....but, yeah, dont even mention that.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 It's like TorridMuhamad trying to justify illegal immigration. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 you generally seem fairly knowedgeable, but you are missing the point on how markets work. Its all done on comperable sales to determine valuation. That value and price offered are a direct result of previous transactions... These deals don't happen in a vacuum. You can't isolate it that way and determine anything meaningful. I think you may not be aware of the full historical context at play. I stated in 2006 that this was all coming and explained that real estate was treated like stocks, but it cannot be.....the mechanics of the two markets are too different. I assailed the government and the banks as being chiefly to blame for this mess, then lamented the stupidity of the buyers and their role....and it was all fine, until I then mentioned that the sellers too were complicit then....oh man, how DARE you suggest that one should ever be held accountable for raping a buyer......sellers CAN NEEEEEEVER be held accountable for their part in any of this.....and I simply disagree with that notion.....thats all.....literally, that is the point of contention.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted August 26, 2010 But, what if you did not buy....but still lose your job because so many did? And what if you also had your investments cut in half? And what if YOUR home is suddenly worthless? How is does caveat emptor apply? So avoiding ones own culpability is ok, gotcha.....that is being the biggest and worst kind of pvssy... Capitalism works only within a strong moral framework that creates social trust. Absent a common moral sense restraining our worst impulses, capitalism becomes a kind of piracy. So you wish to live in some sort of Utopia where there is no risk. Our investments always go up 4%, our homes never go down in value (or up) and we all have the same jobs. I am for regulations of the market as I think that capitalism unchecked is a recipe for disaster (like we have had). However, having some arbitrary "morality" in place to regulate pricing rather than letting the market dictate it, is rather silly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted August 26, 2010 I think you may not be aware of the full historical context at play. I stated in 2006 that this was all coming and explained that real estate was treated like stocks, but it cannot be.....the mechanics of the two markets are too different. I assailed the government and the banks as being chiefly to blame for this mess, then lamented the stupidity of the buyers and their role....and it was all fine, until I then mentioned that the sellers too were complicit then....oh man, how DARE you suggest that one should ever be held accountable for raping a buyer......sellers CAN NEEEEEEVER be held accountable for their part in any of this.....and I simply disagree with that notion.....thats all.....literally, that is the point of contention.... Fock em! I consider it my JOB to separate the stupid people from their money! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted August 26, 2010 How convenient that you left out the rest...which clearly shows that they could not afford it, unless the fraud were put in place to hide it....but, yeah, dont even mention that.... the existance of financing vehicles that allow higher amounts of financing isn't fraud.... If you expect a real estate broker, a mortgage broker, or any other minion to be able to accurately predict the future you are a fool. Your fraud is that you expect 'experts' to be able to read into the future. They can't Go call a random broker and ask them how they feel the market is... They'll tell you its good and getting better... They are salesmen...they sell things... Go ask a ford salesman if the focus is a good car, he'll tell you its great, but the POS will be falling apart in a year or two... Its not fraud for a saleman to paint a pretty picture of a product... If a mortgage broker gave a good faith estimate at 4.5% then the actual mortgage was 5%, then thats fraud... A material misrepresentation. Your view of the future is not material to the transaction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted August 26, 2010 I am stating that capitalism without morality is piracy. Madoff did give money back to people, but that does not absolve him any more than "everybody else was selling their house for that much" would for those who sold at completely bullsh!t prices. I am furious at the government, the banks, the buyers and the sellers.....they have allowed their unmitigated greed to bring us where we are, and place is directly in the cross hairs of a loaded gun, with the hammer cocked. The only issue people have with me is that I refuse to allow the sellers off the hook......and people like strike want to believe that the sellers should have no culpability, and I disagree...... The difference between Strike and Bernie....obviously....is Strike didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Same with the millions of people selling in a similar fashion. Same with the hundreds of millions of people that knew all this was going on. The buyer really does set the price. Always has, always will. And because of that, Strike wins this argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted August 26, 2010 I think you may not be aware of the full historical context at play. I stated in 2006 that this was all coming and explained that real estate was treated like stocks, but it cannot be.....the mechanics of the two markets are too different. I assailed the government and the banks as being chiefly to blame for this mess, then lamented the stupidity of the buyers and their role....and it was all fine, until I then mentioned that the sellers too were complicit then....oh man, how DARE you suggest that one should ever be held accountable for raping a buyer......sellers CAN NEEEEEEVER be held accountable for their part in any of this.....and I simply disagree with that notion.....thats all.....literally, that is the point of contention.... CMBS act precisely as securities You want vindication for the average idiot being short sighted... THere is no vindication for an idiot acting idiotically, well maybe with a radical like Obama in office there is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 I sourced plenty of things. But I'm curious. What did you source that suggested sellers should sell at lower than market value. I'm pretty sure you NEVER sourced something like that. But hey, you've lied about sh*t before. No reason to stop now. Rink Rink Rink Rink But, before you try to start declaring that none of them say anything....as usual.......let's have a look at just how people perceive "market value"...shall we? the best one is at 1:32..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WoQZKZkNs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 So you wish to live in some sort of Utopia where there is no risk. Our investments always go up 4%, our homes never go down in value (or up) and we all have the same jobs. I am for regulations of the market as I think that capitalism unchecked is a recipe for disaster (like we have had). However, having some arbitrary "morality" in place to regulate pricing rather than letting the market dictate it, is rather silly. Oh, you must be referred to the mortgage market, who has stated they will refuse to provide mortgage loans unless the government backs them.....which means they will only give out loans if the government guarantees them.....yeah, a utopia without risk.... I never suggested an arbitrary morality, but if you want one....get one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,553 Posted August 26, 2010 Fock em! I consider it my JOB to separate the stupid people from their money! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,097 Posted August 26, 2010 Rink Rink Rink Rink But, before you try to start declaring that none of them say anything....as usual.......let's have a look at just how people perceive "market value"...shall we? the best one is at 1:32..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WoQZKZkNs I loooked at the quotes you posted from the first two links. Neither of them said sellers did anything wrong selling for what they could get. All they said was prices were coming down. Duh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted August 26, 2010 How convenient that you left out the rest...which clearly shows that they could not afford it, unless the fraud were put in place to hide it....but, yeah, dont even mention that.... SO you're saying I can go buy a house I can afford right now, but the seller should knock off 50% just in case the market sours and I won't be able to afford the same house in the future. That was your example before. I guess the reason I didn't mention it above is because it's focking retarded. The buyer really does set the price. And if they can afford the house now, that's all that really matters. Strike wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
