The NFL and Player's Union Discussion Thread

[Mike FF Today 722]

Good point - I don't think that draft day viewers will miss anything if the players aren't there, but it's certainly not good for the media.

 

Mike - do you have any insight as to what the next step of the process is? There's a court hearing on April 6th for the injunction filed by the players - can we expect a decision within a few weeks of that date? Would that decision be the final bearing as to whether or not there'd be football in 2011? (Barring a new CBA, of course).

 

A decision on April 6th one way or the other is not a final say as to whether there is football in 2011. Its just a step in the process. If the judge reverses the lockout, the NFL will most likely appeal and we MAY see business being done (free agency, workouts, etc. likely under 2010 rules) depending on exactly how the judge rules. Unfortunately this situation is in the courts and very had to predict what will happen with the varying lawsuits. kutulu's link to Peter King's opinion is one possible scenario.

[thesitedoc 5]

The 2009 salary cap I believe was 127 million. There are 55 players on an active roster. That is about 2 mill per player per year. That doesn't seem so bad at first.

 

However, we all know a huge portion of a teams salary cap is concentrated in it's star players like Manning, Brady etc...

 

The overwhelming majority of players make under 1 mill per year.

 

Also, take into consideration that the average NFL career is just over 3 years, so that majority of players on average maybe earn what, 1-3 million for their career and that needs to last them the rest of their lives. Of course they will go onto other careers hopefully but if we are honest most of these people made their mark as athletes and not engineers, doctors, teachers, etc...so I tend to think they need to strike now while they can. Only the stars get the jobs as announcers, analysts and Nike spoke persons.

 

In much the same way each of us chose to be whatever we are, based on upbringing, circumstance, ability etc... NFL players chose to play football. I for one am not jealous of their choice. I am happy to have my health, good knees, no brain damage, no back pains etc... after age 30.

 

This is a battle between multi-billionaires and hundred thousandaires and millionaires. I for one support the latter. I almost always will. The product is great. The rich billionaires don't need more money.

 

Not sure why anyone would side with the billionaires in this case. But I am always willing to listen. Again, take away Manning, Brees and Brady and look at the average NFL players and ask just how good do they really have it long term.

[RLLD 4,194]

Also, take into consideration that the average NFL career is just over 3 years, so that majority of players on average maybe earn what, 1-3 million for their career and that needs to last them the rest of their lives.

Uhm....why? are they completely unemployable outside of the NFL?

[thesitedoc 5]

Also, take into consideration that the average NFL career is just over 3 years, so that majority of players on average maybe earn what, 1-3 million for their career and that needs to last them the rest of their lives.

Uhm....why? are they completely unemployable outside of the NFL?

 

Completely, unemployable? No. But what careers did you have in mind for the majority of the players who leave the game. On the whole, I would say that the vast majority of players who, even if they finished college, did not graduate with degrees that would be applicable in todays market.

 

Maybe, the rest of their lives is a little over stated, but I'm not sure what jobs await most of them after the leave the NFL.

[jocstrap 8]

Completely, unemployable? No. But what careers did you have in mind for the majority of the players who leave the game. On the whole, I would say that the vast majority of players who, even if they finished college, did not graduate with degrees that would be applicable in todays market.

 

Maybe, the rest of their lives is a little over stated, but I'm not sure what jobs await most of them after the leave the NFL.

 

 

I'm on Rays side this time around. So at age and 30 once retired, you should not have a back up plan for the next 50 years? Give me a break. You work in the NFL from age 24 to 30 at best, and that's it? 6 years as a professional and you've earned the right to sit back forever? Maybe so if you've planned it right or made enough. The fact is, a majority of these guys fail for some reason once they leave the sport. Poor planning as far as I'm concerned.

[Mike FF Today 722]

The 2009 salary cap I believe was 127 million.

 

A great piece by Andrew Brandt today, talking specifics of the salary cap (past and present) and a likely scenario of numbers that could work for both sides.

[kutulu 1,670]

Four retired NFL players, including Hall of Fame defensive end Carl Eller and Pro Bowl running back Priest Holmes, filed a federal class action, antitrust lawsuit against the NFL on Monday seeking to end the current lockout.

 

Eller v. NFL, obtained by Yahoo! Sports, is similar to the current Brady, et al v. NFL. However, it is based on a potentially clever legal maneuver that could box the league into a corner and prove a significant development in ending pro football’s nearly month-long labor impasse.

 

The former players’ suit also covers draft-eligible prospects, who aren’t represented by the NFL Players Association under the previous collective bargaining agreement. As such, these plaintiffs could potentially avoid one of the league’s chief counterarguments against the Brady lawsuit – that the union illegally decertified.

 

“The owners say the union has unlawfully decertified and the union should be ordered to reconstitute and forced to sit at the bargaining table,” lead attorney Michael Hausfeld of the Washington D.C.-based Hausfeld LLC told Y! Sports. “If you look at the last CBA, it represents the rookies that have been drafted and the rookies who have begun negotiating with teams.”

 

Therefore, college players awaiting next month’s draft are not represented by the union and can’t be faulted for its decertification. However they are, Hausfeld argues, being affected by the lockout.

 

“These players have an antitrust claim,” Hausfeld said. “They’ve essentially staked the pursuit of a career on being eligible for the NFL.

 

“The owners have shut down their potential employees through a concerted boycott,” Hausfeld continued. “[The suit is] going to avoid the main thrust of the owners’ defense and their argument that the matter should be settled by the [National Labor Relations Board] not in the courts.”

 

The NFL said its “attorneys have not had an opportunity to review” the suit, which was filed in United States District Court for the District of Minnesota. The NFLPA was made aware of the suit prior to its filing, according to Hausfeld. It too has yet to respond with comment.

 

Hausfeld has made a career out of winning complicated lawsuits – that includes earning reparations for Holocaust survivors from Swiss banks. His firm is currently one of the lead councils in a suit filed by former college athletes such as Ed O’Bannon and Oscar Robertson against the NCAA for the unlawful use of their likenesses.

 

In the Eller case, Hausfeld believes a crack has been found in the NFL’s armor.

 

“How silly is it to have a draft in April and then say, congratulations, you’re locked out?” he asked.

 

By using the window between now and the start of the NFL draft on April 28, the NFL is exposed to this kind of argument.

 

The NFL, Hausfeld said, would have to work out a deal with the NFLPA or risk taking on an antitrust case without its top counterarguments. If the league were to lose, it would risk the basic structures of its business – the salary cap, the draft, free agency and so forth. It would be better off agreeing to a deal.

 

“We see something different,” Hausfeld said. “[The NFL has] created more of a mess for themselves. If we can end the lockout and there is no union then they’re going to individually negotiate with every player and former player.

 

“This is basically the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back. Hopefully it forces everyone to the table.”

 

That remains to be seen. Predicting how any lawsuit, let alone complicated antitrust arguments, will go is fruitless. The NFL has plenty of lawyers also.

 

For fans eager for any kind of solution or forced movement on the labor impasse though, this unexpected legal challenge is, at the very least, a potential positive.

 

~By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports

[jocstrap 8]

(KFFL) Tennessee Titans owner Bud Adams guaranteed there will be NFL football played in 2011, according to John Glennon, of The Tennessean. Adams may be frustrated with the present state of affairs in the NFL, but he said he has no concerns that the lockout will take away the coming season. "It's going to be a few months here, but we'll be playing this year. I guarantee we'll be playing," Adams said. "It's one of those things that (the players) haven't been very (much) wanting to work out a deal with (the owners)," Adams added. "But we'll be playing football this year. I'll tell you that for sure."

 

 

Maybe Bud knows something we don't?

[jocstrap 8]

~By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports

 

 

I'm really trying to stay educated on the matter...BUT IT'S LIKE A FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO ME.

[kutulu 1,670]

I'm really trying to stay educated on the matter...BUT IT'S LIKE A FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO ME.

 

Basically, the NFL said the Brady suit was bogus cause the decertification was a sham. The players cockblocked this move by having the rookies (and some retired vets) file almost the same lawsuit. Since the rooks have never been part of the union, they never decertified and the NFL can't make the same claim that the lawsuit is bogus due to a sham decertification. The NFL might try to find another reason to get the rookies lawsuit thrown out, but the one pointing to a bogus decertification won't hold water.

[Phurfur 70]

Basically, the NFL said the Brady suit was bogus cause the decertification was a sham. The players cockblocked this move by having the rookies (and some retired vets) file almost the same lawsuit. Since the rooks have never been part of the union, they never decertified and the NFL can't make the same claim that the lawsuit is bogus due to a sham decertification. The NFL might try to find another reason to get the rookies lawsuit thrown out, but the one pointing to a bogus decertification won't hold water.

 

Only in America would someone with a $100+ million contract sue their employer.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Basically, the NFL said the Brady suit was bogus cause the decertification was a sham. The players cockblocked this move by having the rookies (and some retired vets) file almost the same lawsuit. Since the rooks have never been part of the union, they never decertified and the NFL can't make the same claim that the lawsuit is bogus due to a sham decertification. The NFL might try to find another reason to get the rookies lawsuit thrown out, but the one pointing to a bogus decertification won't hold water.

 

I'm curious how these people have standing to sue the league. The retired players are no longer on an NFL team, so what do they have to do with a new CBA? And the rookie players aren't yet part of a team and can't legally sign a contract until the lockout ends. I'm sure much smarter people than myself have already considered this and there is some sort of answer where these persons have standing, but from the outside it looks kind of shaky to me.

[RLLD 4,194]

Completely, unemployable? No. But what careers did you have in mind for the majority of the players who leave the game. On the whole, I would say that the vast majority of players who, even if they finished college, did not graduate with degrees that would be applicable in todays market.

 

Maybe, the rest of their lives is a little over stated, but I'm not sure what jobs await most of them after the leave the NFL.

 

If their argument is that they know about their short NFL career they really have no position to then complain about needing help beyond their playing days. They should plan ahead and make sure they use their education (assuming they ever truly learned anything at all) to good use, y'know, like everyone else....

[Phurfur 70]

If their argument is that they know about their short NFL career they really have no position to then complain about needing help beyond their playing days. They should plan ahead and make sure they use their education (assuming they ever truly learned anything at all) to good use, y'know, like everyone else....

 

 

Why doesn't the Union take care of them?

[giraldi02 474]

Also, take into consideration that the average NFL career is just over 3 years, so that majority of players on average maybe earn what, 1-3 million for their career and that needs to last them the rest of their lives.

Uhm....why? are they completely unemployable outside of the NFL?

 

100% agreed. And the only answer is that they are able to enter the real workforce. Additionally, name a company that wouldn't want Wes Welker bailing cardboard. You don't have to seek a Forbes 500 company after the NFL. But these players have the mentality of being catered to rather than working hard AFTER their time is up.

 

I have no sympathy for a man that makes $300,000 in a year for three years and can't appropriately manage his money to last for an extended period of time. If you're a fringe player, you don't need multiple cars, you don't need expensive jewelry, and you don't go racking up extensive bar tabs. Live within your means.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

If their argument is that they know about their short NFL career they really have no position to then complain about needing help beyond their playing days. They should plan ahead and make sure they use their education (assuming they ever truly learned anything at all) to good use, y'know, like everyone else....

 

It's probably sort of difficult to apply yourself to a normal job when you've suffered brain damage as a result of your playing days. I know you love the idea of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps but you need to be realistic.

[RoadLizard 73]

The 2009 salary cap I believe was 127 million. There are 55 players on an active roster. That is about 2 mill per player per year. That doesn't seem so bad at first.

 

However, we all know a huge portion of a teams salary cap is concentrated in it's star players like Manning, Brady etc...

 

The overwhelming majority of players make under 1 mill per year.

 

Also, take into consideration that the average NFL career is just over 3 years, so that majority of players on average maybe earn what, 1-3 million for their career and that needs to last them the rest of their lives. Of course they will go onto other careers hopefully but if we are honest most of these people made their mark as athletes and not engineers, doctors, teachers, etc...so I tend to think they need to strike now while they can. Only the stars get the jobs as announcers, analysts and Nike spoke persons.

 

In much the same way each of us chose to be whatever we are, based on upbringing, circumstance, ability etc... NFL players chose to play football. I for one am not jealous of their choice. I am happy to have my health, good knees, no brain damage, no back pains etc... after age 30.

 

This is a battle between multi-billionaires and hundred thousandaires and millionaires. I for one support the latter. I almost always will. The product is great. The rich billionaires don't need more money.

 

Not sure why anyone would side with the billionaires in this case. But I am always willing to listen. Again, take away Manning, Brees and Brady and look at the average NFL players and ask just how good do they really have it long term.

 

There are some valid points here, especially about careers being short. However, when you look at the money they make, even a million per year is 20 years of salary for a regulr Joe making $50,000 a year at an office job or whatever. 20 freegin years worth. Thats a lot. Any player that makes 2 million or more has now likely outearned most Americans in their LIFETIMES in just ONE season which is about 8 months total time committment at the most. Quite shocking, really. Cant feel bad for anyone with that kind of paycheck - even if its just for 3 years. They can EASILY live comfortably forever if they are smart with the money, even just 3 years worth.

 

The REAL problem lies with the generally(not all players but many of them) extremely dumb players who take their game checks and buy mansions, Lamborghinis, and b!tches. Then, they add the posse to the payroll. That aint my problem or my fault and I cant feel sorry for them. But, they have to by like MTV-Cribs or whatever and bling it up. Thats fine..until your knee blows out. These guys have to learn to live a little less large and spread out the cash. Buy a $300,000 dollar house, not a $2 million dollar one. Buy one nice sportscar and a sedan...dont buy a fleet of them. You aint Jay-Z so stop spending like him. Cut ties with the scumbag friends. It sounds hard but it can be done since some of them are smart with their money.

 

And yeah, they chose their career. That means the good comes with the bad. Just like a fireman who gets to milk the huge pension and benefits...they also have to risk running into a burning building once in a while. Change careers if ya dont like it.

 

No, I dont have any sympathy for billioanires either but they make this all possible too and employ a LOT of people in the process. That tends to get forgotten since this country seems to hate successful people nowadays. And, what other industry can you name where the employees get 40%++ of the total revenue? Not many - us working stiffs would all be rich if we got to share in 40% of the companies total revenue. C'mon!

 

Overall, the players dont realize how good they actually have it and the zillionaires have no idea what regular people have to deal with day to day. Rich guys fighting other very rich guys. Fock them both. Ill find something else to do - football isnt quite as important as they make it out to be. Sorry.

[kutulu 1,670]

A federal judge will hear arguments on Wednesday from lawyers representing current and former NFL players who want the league to lift its lockout and this year's football season to proceed.

 

Judge Susan Richard Nelson will consider whether to grant a preliminary injunction that would lift the lockout, the result of an ongoing dispute between the NFL owners and the players who have failed to reach an collective bargaining agreement.

 

It's possible that Nelson will make a decision after Wednesday's hearing at U.S. District Court in St. Paul, Minnesota. If she rules in favor of a preliminary injunction, the NFL is likely to appeal. If she rejects the players' motion, the lockout will continue.

 

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and seven other players have filed a lawsuit on behalf of other current and eligible NFL players against the league to halt the lockout, which could affect the start of the 2011-12 season scheduled for September 8.

 

The players also want a future trial to determine if the NFL lockout is in violation of federal antitrust laws.

 

On Monday, the federal judge agreed to combine Brady v. National Football League with another class action lawsuit, Eller v. NFL, filed in late March by a group primarily made up of retired NFL players.

 

NFL union prepares players for lockout That second lawsuit is "potentially more threatening" because the plaintiffs in Eller v. NFL are not bargaining members of the NFL's players union (NFLPA) and the NFL cannot argue that they engaged in bad faith during collective bargaining discussions, according to SI.com's legal analyst Michael McCann.

 

"The NFLPA may be removed from the picture in Eller v. NFL, a point which would take away a key defense the NFL enjoys in Brady v. NFL," McCann explained.

 

~cnn.com (rest of article)

[Mike FF Today 722]

Here's a nice Q&A piece from Lester Munson on the hearing that will take place tomorrow. He expects Judge Nelson to issue the injunction and end the lockout. Regardless of her decision (which may not come for a couple weeks), there will be an appeal...

 

Q: Will Judge Nelson issue the injunction and end the lockout?

 

A: Yes. There are two reasons to expect her to issue the injunction even though it is the most drastic remedy that is offered in American jurisprudence. Injunctions are granted only in compelling circumstances, and they are extremely rare in antitrust cases. But, even in a court system that is reluctant to issue injunctions, the players have a powerful and persuasive argument. There is little doubt that the NFL is using its monopoly power to extract concessions from the players. There is little doubt that the decertification is real and will be upheld. And there is little doubt that the loss of an entire season is a serious and irreparable harm to the NFL's 1,700 players.

 

The specter of a lost season will be a factor in Judge Nelson's decisions, and she will know that the injunction will level the negotiating field and lead to a new agreement between the players and the owners.

 

Second, although Judge Nelson may be in her rookie year as a federal district judge, she understands the players' situation. As a lawyer, she represented plaintiffs in class actions. The players are plaintiffs in a class action. And, as a lawyer, she stood up to powerful corporate interests, including the tobacco industry. In a battle between players and the powerful corporate interests of the NFL, she is likely to take the side of the players.

[kutulu 1,670]

SI.com analysis of the NFL injunction hearing, "What to expect from Brady v. NFL", Michael McCann onSPORTS LAW

[RLLD 4,194]

Why doesn't the Union take care of them?

 

Clearly the union is deeply concerned about them, its hard to understand why the union would not be first in line to ensure the well being of players.....

[kutulu 1,670]

Clearly the union is deeply concerned about them, its hard to understand why the union would not be first in line to ensure the well being of players.....

There is no union at the moment.

[shovelheadt 71]

And now Derrick Mason chimes in by calling the commish a "joke". These guys never fail to impress.

[RLLD 4,194]

There is no union at the moment.

 

Ohhh yeah, I forgot they are only a union when it suits them......

[kutulu 1,670]

Ohhh yeah, I forgot they are only a union when it suits them......

 

Maybe...maybe not. We might know more later today.

[kutulu 1,670]

“Only 1 mention of irreparable harm and [Judge Susan] Nelson said it ‘appears players have strong case.”

 

Nelson also indicated that she’s “having a hard time with is a lockout being legal after a union decertification” according to Bedard.

 

~pft.com

 

 

They are on break right...due to start back up at 3 est.

[Mike FF Today 722]

No ruling today. Judge says it may be a couple weeks. Courtroom football continues...

[Mike FF Today 722]

Judge Nelson to impose forced mediation early this week according to Adam Schefter (ESPN). The league had wanted more mediation in Washington, while federal mediator George Cohen and the NFL Players' Association wanted mediation in Minnesota.

 

Judge Nelson will decide what she feels is best and announce her decision early this week.

 

This could help speed up the process, especially if the Judge rules to have the talks in Minnesota under a Judge Nelson appointee.

 

Update: U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson says Monday that formal mediation will begin Thursday.

 

Nelson has appointed Chief Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan as mediator. He will meet with representatives of the players Tuesday, then representatives of the NFL on Wednesday.

[RLLD 4,194]

Maybe...maybe not. We might know more later today.

 

If they can get leverage then they will re certify, if not, they will leave their status as is until it suits them. Nice game. I hope they lose.

[kutulu 1,670]

I hope they lose.

 

Lose what?

[RLLD 4,194]

Lose what?

 

All attempts at a resolution through litigation. I hope they are both forced to sit back down and work this sh!t out, like adults.....

[giraldi02 474]

All attempts at a resolution through litigation. I hope they are both forced to sit back down and work this sh!t out, like adults.....

 

Once again I agree. If mediation is really THAT needed, then neither side seems to get it. They're making more and more people apathetic about their "plight". They had, and still have a chance to continue, a great thing. Don't alienate your fanbase by fighting over 9 billion dollars.

[420allstars 13]

Once again I agree. If mediation is really THAT needed, then neither side seems to get it. They're making more and more people apathetic about their "plight". They had, and still have a chance to continue, a great thing. Don't alienate your fanbase by fighting over 9 billion dollars.

 

the shitty thing here is that the will alienate us over 9mil and we will come back next year and give the 11mil... I wish I could say I wont be one of the guys who line up and beg then to take my cash but that would be a lie... They have us by the balls and they know it..

[kutulu 1,670]

Sounds like the two sides are just going thru the motions and this clusterfock is headed to the courts. They are really gonna fock the golden goose.

[jocstrap 8]

Sounds like the two sides are just going thru the motions and this clusterfock is headed to the courts. They are really gonna fock the golden goose.

 

 

They are going to start things off by ruining the NFL draft. Kolb, DeAngelo, McNabb, etc could all have been factors in draft picks.

[kutulu 1,670]

They are going to start things off by ruining the NFL draft. Kolb, DeAngelo, McNabb, etc could all have been factors in draft picks.

 

Interesting to see how the ratings for the draft do this year.

[jocstrap 8]

Interesting to see how the ratings for the draft do this year.

 

This might be the highlight of the 2011 season for all we know:(

 

 

Interesting to see how many Qb's are taken early - stretching - b/c teams can't pick up a free agent QB or trade for a QB at this point.

[Gepetto 1,353]

The Sports Business Journal reports a "breakaway" group of "mid-tier" NFL players is set to sign a lawfirm to intervene in the Brady vs. NFL case.

The players, believed to be as many 70, are not happy that talks under federal mediator George Cohen broke off in March. Their motion, expected to be filed late this week, is essentially an attempt to have their voices heard alongside the owners and higher-paid players at the mediation table. This is the first tangible sign of discord among the players. Even if Judge Susan Nelson is expected to grant an injunction, this report is more fodder for the belief that NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith's extreme positions have "painted him into a corner," as PFT's Mike Florio suggested. Source: Daniel Kaplan on Twitter Apr 20, 12:48 PM

 

 

This is great news. I want this DeMaurice Smith guy to lose. He just comes across wrong and is too stubborn and selfish to get results for the good of all players and the good of the game.

[shovelheadt 71]

The Sports Business Journal reports a "breakaway" group of "mid-tier" NFL players is set to sign a lawfirm to intervene in the Brady vs. NFL case.

The players, believed to be as many 70, are not happy that talks under federal mediator George Cohen broke off in March. Their motion, expected to be filed late this week, is essentially an attempt to have their voices heard alongside the owners and higher-paid players at the mediation table. This is the first tangible sign of discord among the players. Even if Judge Susan Nelson is expected to grant an injunction, this report is more fodder for the belief that NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith's extreme positions have "painted him into a corner," as PFT's Mike Florio suggested. Source: Daniel Kaplan on Twitter Apr 20, 12:48 PM

 

 

This is great news. I want this DeMaurice Smith guy to lose. He just comes across wrong and is too stubborn and selfish to get results for the good of all players and the good of the game.

 

I love it!! Been saying it all along, these guys are amateurs and will cave. This is the first domino.

[Phurfur 70]

The Sports Business Journal reports a "breakaway" group of "mid-tier" NFL players is set to sign a lawfirm to intervene in the Brady vs. NFL case.

The players, believed to be as many 70, are not happy that talks under federal mediator George Cohen broke off in March. Their motion, expected to be filed late this week, is essentially an attempt to have their voices heard alongside the owners and higher-paid players at the mediation table. This is the first tangible sign of discord among the players. Even if Judge Susan Nelson is expected to grant an injunction, this report is more fodder for the belief that NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith's extreme positions have "painted him into a corner," as PFT's Mike Florio suggested. Source: Daniel Kaplan on Twitter Apr 20, 12:48 PM

 

 

This is great news. I want this DeMaurice Smith guy to lose. He just comes across wrong and is too stubborn and selfish to get results for the good of all players and the good of the game.

 

 

Gene Upshaw would have had a deal by now.