Can Pres. Obama Win Re-Election With High Unemployment?

[MDC 7,590]

It becomes an opportunity cost argument... If we use the same baseline as a starting point, compare how the economies would be had that stimulus been used on for example infrastructure projects. Considering the construction industry has been among the hardest hit during this downturn you are pumping in $, jobs, and efficiency.

 

Instead projects like the Tampa-Orlando speed rail were abandoned because $$ was pissed away on junk and now govts have to scale back, and the easiest way to scale back is to push off projects and defer maintenance, which depreciates infrastructure and snowballs for the bad... To not acknowledge that we could be in a much better position except for the retahdedness of the govt is just being blind.

 

What you're saying is those $$$ could've been spent better. That's an argument that has merit. The idea that the stimulus actually wrecked or has hurt the economy is silly talk.

[Phurfur 70]

If you say the stimulus did nothing, fine - I won't argue. But I don't see how the stimulus made the current economy worse. About a third of the stimulus was in tax cuts, btw. You could say adding that money to the debt will make the economy worse in the long-term. I don't know how you argue that the stimulus has already had a bad effect on the economy.

 

Then again, you are the same guy who thinks tax cuts magically create tax revenue, so I'm not exactly dealing with an economist here.

 

 

It depends on the tax cuts. The stimulus tax cuts you are talking about were mostly direct cash payments to people on entitlements SSI, SSA, Welfare, etc. Some how BHO magically label these tax cuts. Unfortunately this is not a segment of the population that creates jobs and wealth. A good chunk of that money ended out with the Mexican Drug Lords or in the Indian Casinos. And the Dems wonder why it didn’t work.

 

BTW: I have majors in Business, Computer Science and Geography and a minor in Economics.

[Phurfur 70]

What you're saying is those $$$ could've been spent better. That's an argument that has merit. The idea that the stimulus actually wrecked or has hurt the economy is silly talk.

 

 

Please tell me how it helped.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

It depends on the tax cuts. The stimulus tax cuts you are talking about were mostly direct cash payments to people on entitlements SSI, SSA, Welfare, etc. Some how BHO magically label these tax cuts. Unfortunately this is not a segment of the population that creates jobs and wealth. A good chunk of that money ended out with the Mexican Drug Lords or in the Indian Casinos. And the Dems wonder why it didn’t work.

 

I'm so sick of hearing this trickle down economics crap. Let's just give all the money to the rich, then they'll create jobs (in mexico). Poor people will just blow their money on drugs and gambling. Cause god knows rich people wouldn't blow it on private jets, art, big stupid houses, plasitc surgery, and whatnot.

[MDC 7,590]

they do, research Reagan tax cuts and govt tax receipts... Lowering the top income tax from 70% to 35% and they made more $$$

 

Tax revenues go up every year we're not in a recession. There's some validity to the Laffer Curve but Republicans have grossly overstated it to mean that tax cuts always = more $$$. This is a childish and irresponsible myth.

[MDC 7,590]

Please tell me how it helped.

 

I never made that claim. All I'm taking issue with is your staggeringly retarded claim that the stimulus "wrecked" the economy, followed by your back-tracking to a slightly less moronic claim that it "hurt" the economy.

 

hth

[MDC 7,590]

It depends on the tax cuts. The stimulus tax cuts you are talking about were mostly direct cash payments to people on entitlements SSI, SSA, Welfare, etc. Some how BHO magically label these tax cuts. Unfortunately this is not a segment of the population that creates jobs and wealth.

 

Really? Poor people don't use their money to immediately buy things like groceries and whatnot? Lots more people buy many more things doesn't keep people in jobs and put cash into the hands of the middle class? That's an intersting theory.

 

A good chunk of that money ended out with the Mexican Drug Lords or in the Indian Casinos. And the Dems wonder why it didn’t work.

 

 

BTW: I have majors in Business, Computer Science and Geography and a minor in Economics.

 

The University of Phoenix doesn't count.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

see Ronald Reagan 1980-1988

 

The economy was actually doing quite poorly during Reagan's first few years in office. Mainly because he inherited a terrible situation (like Obama). Reagan was able to turn things around during his second term; maybe Obama will end up doing the same.

[Phurfur 70]

Really? Poor people don't use their money to immediately buy things like groceries and whatnot? Lots more people buy many more things doesn't keep people in jobs and put cash into the hands of the middle class? That's an intersting theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The University of Phoenix doesn't count.

 

Sorry, it was a Big Ten School for Business and Economics.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Sorry, it was a Big Ten School for Business and Economics.

 

I love how when academics talk, they are left wing biased ivory tower hacks. But when they give you a degree, it makes your tired old trickle down bullsh!t somehow more valid.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Trickle down is bullsh!t. The last time our economy was truly strong (and not just built on speculative bubbles and a house of cards) was when we had a robust middle class. The trick is to get the money into the hands of the people who will actually spend it. Unfortunately globalization has largely destroyed this possibility since we are now all in a race to the bottom.

[Phurfur 70]

Really? Poor people don't use their money to immediately buy things like groceries and whatnot? Lots more people buy many more things doesn't keep people in jobs and put cash into the hands of the middle class? That's an intersting theory.

 

Is that really what you think happens? I may have an advantage over you because I was brought up "in poverty" as you lefties like to call it and I know lots of retired people today.

[MDC 7,590]

Is that really what you think happens?

 

Yeah, I think lower class people will immediately spend stimulus / cash because a higher proportion of their income goes toward necessities. And I think people buying things tends to spur the economy.

 

Still waiting to hear how the stimulus hurt the economy. Looks like you (wisely) decided to backtrack on that colossally stupid claim.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Still waiting to hear how the stimulus hurt the economy. Looks like you (wisely) decided to backtrack on that colossally stupid claim.

 

That was a pretty dumb claim. Pretty much everyone agrees that the stimulus helped pull the economy back from the brink. The problem is that, while the stimulus could and did avert disaster, it cannot make the economy healthy and whole again all by itself. Which is what we're seeing now. The stimulus did it's job but, surprise, surprise, the private sector is not able and/or willing to take us the rest of the way.

[Phurfur 70]

Yeah, I think lower class people will immediately spend stimulus / cash because a higher proportion of their income goes toward necessities. And I think people buying things tends to spur the economy.

 

Still waiting to hear how the stimulus hurt the economy. Looks like you (wisely) decided to backtrack on that colossally stupid claim.

 

 

 

Of course they spend it right away it is just that buying drugs and stolen items or gambling does not help the economy. Remember I lived in these neighborhoods and I've seen what happens. It is an entirely different environment that I am sure you do not understand.

 

I asked you to tell me how it help first so I will go after you do.

[MDC 7,590]

Of course they spend it right away it is just that buying drugs and stolen items or gambling does not help the economy. Remember I lived in these neighborhoods and I've seen what happens. It is an entirely different environment that I am sure you do not understand.

 

I asked you to tell me how it help first so I will go after you do.

 

Here in Philly I never see poor people.

 

I never made that claim about the stimulus plan.

[Phurfur 70]

Here in Philly I never see poor people.

 

I never made that claim about the stimulus plan.

 

 

But have you lived with them or did you grow up with them. The people I grew up with are not spending the extra government handout by buying something retail. At best they would be getting something out of pawn.

[DankNuggs 305]

That was a pretty dumb claim. Pretty much everyone agrees that the stimulus helped pull the economy back from the brink. The problem is that, while the stimulus could and did avert disaster, it cannot make the economy healthy and whole again all by itself. Which is what we're seeing now. The stimulus did it's job but, surprise, surprise, the private sector is not able and/or willing to take us the rest of the way.

what verbal diarrhea. 'pretty much everyone' = idiots and those politically tied to it. How joe biden has been talking about the economy 'gaining traction' for 3 years.

 

The private sector is hoarding cash until they feel its safe enough that their investments will grow. They can't do that until there is some future stability in how this country and economy is going to operate.

[DankNuggs 305]

Of course they spend it right away it is just that buying drugs and stolen items or gambling does not help the economy. Remember I lived in these neighborhoods and I've seen what happens. It is an entirely different environment that I am sure you do not understand.

 

I asked you to tell me how it help first so I will go after you do.

you are wrong. They spend it at walmart, the dollar stores, targets....etc..etc.. The % of money given to the poor that circulates through the economy is pretty high actually. problem is you are getting cents on the dollars benefit and over time it takes its toll as we've seen.

[DankNuggs 305]

Yeah, I think lower class people will immediately spend stimulus / cash because a higher proportion of their income goes toward necessities. And I think people buying things tends to spur the economy.

 

This is true, the key being striking a balance between keeping people in a situation where they can rejoin the workforce as quickly as possible and not hampering too badly the growth of the private sector.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

you are wrong. They spend it at walmart, the dollar stores, targets....etc..etc.. The % of money given to the poor that circulates through the economy is pretty high actually. problem is you are getting cents on the dollars benefit and over time it takes its toll as we've seen.

 

How about trying "trickle up" economics? Since almost all of the money spent by the poor ends up in corporate coffers when they shop, everybody wins. This creates jobs, increased stock prices and dividends for the richies, and increased GDP.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

That was a pretty dumb claim. Pretty much everyone agrees that the stimulus helped pull the economy back from the brink. The problem is that, while the stimulus could and did avert disaster, it cannot make the economy healthy and whole again all by itself. Which is what we're seeing now. The stimulus did it's job but, surprise, surprise, the private sector is not able and/or willing to take us the rest of the way.

 

:lol: :lol:

[DankNuggs 305]

How about trying "trickle up" economics? Since almost all of the money spent by the poor ends up in corporate coffers when they shop, everybody wins. This creates jobs, increased stock prices and dividends for the richies, and increased GDP.

the purpose is to get everyone working, depending on how trickle up is structured it could disincentivize people on the brink from getting jobs. That would be the fear.

 

 

Interestingly enough, my economic hero Milton Friedman (a staunch laissez faire proponent) hatched the idea of the negative income tax. The idea is basically a flat tax that guarantees a minimum income, those beneath would be cut a check for the difference. You could remove all the overhead of these tiny inefficient govt programs and all the waste, it would be very efficient. However it would also be ripe for fraud, and the IRS audit type costs could outweigh the gains. Interesting idea though.

[Phurfur 70]

you are wrong. They spend it at walmart, the dollar stores, targets....etc..etc.. The % of money given to the poor that circulates through the economy is pretty high actually. problem is you are getting cents on the dollars benefit and over time it takes its toll as we've seen.

 

I know, I am talking about a one time $250 check not having an effect on the economy.

[Phurfur 70]

How about trying "trickle up" economics? Since almost all of the money spent by the poor ends up in corporate coffers when they shop, everybody wins. This creates jobs, increased stock prices and dividends for the richies, and increased GDP.

 

It is called welfare and it doesn't work. Where does the money from the middle and upper class end up?

[LOD01 198]

What's really baffling is that Bomama is going to raise taxes and enact all kinds of cumbersome business-killing policies ... and yet he's also successfully bribed big business into giving him so much cash that he can't possibly be beat!

 

This guy is like Doctor Doom come to life.

 

Obummer.

 

Can you inform us all of these cumbersome business-killing policies coming our way?

[IGotWorms 4,060]

:lol: :lol:

 

Am I wrong? Is the private sector able to bring us back to economic prosperity on its own? Because the news today was that only 50,000 jobs were created last month. This during a time of high stock prices and record profits (for some companies). So please explain to me--where are the results?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Am I wrong?

 

Yes.

[MedStudent 56]

 

Instead projects like the Tampa-Orlando speed rail were abandoned because $$ was pissed away on junk

 

The Feds offered billions for this project. The republican governor of Florida rejected it.

[MedStudent 56]

they do, research Reagan tax cuts and govt tax receipts... Lowering the top income tax from 70% to 35% and they made more $$$

Reagan sent us down this path.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The Feds offered billions for this project. The republican governor of Florida rejected it.

 

Kudos to the governor. The fed gives X amount for these high speed rail projects, then stops. The state is left with a financial black hole paying for an uber expensive boondoggle that never produces enough ridership to come close to covering operating expenses.

 

They lose billions, but Obama thinks they are a good idea.

[Reality 3,121]

Kudos to the governor. The fed gives X amount for these high speed rail projects, then stops. The state is left with a financial black hole paying for an uber expensive boondoggle that never produces enough ridership to come close to covering operating expenses.

 

They lose billions, but Obama thinks they are a good idea.

 

This, it's pretty sad that people like Med don't know this.

[MedStudent 56]

This, it's pretty sad that people like Med don't know this.

I just posted that for dank. He's the one who thought it was a good idea.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I just posted that for dank. He's the one who thought it was a good idea.

 

 

Weakest spin ever.

[MedStudent 56]

Weakest spin ever.

Link to me saying it was a good idea or even expressing an opinion on it?

 

I caught two republitards with one cast.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Link to me saying it was a good idea or even expressing an opinion on it?

 

I caught two republitards with one cast.

 

Spin and deflection..........spin and deflection...

 

 

Your time would be better spent deleting your Palin thread. What a beating you took there.

[MedStudent 56]

Spin and deflection..........spin and deflection...

 

 

Your time would be better spent deleting your Palin thread. What a beating you took there.

 

I hooked a whole bunch of you there.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Link to me saying it was a good idea or even expressing an opinion on it?

 

 

 

I never claimed you did either of those things. Keep flailing away.