Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 14, 2011 The backup is not Tebow, it's Quinn. If it's such a no-brainer that Orton needs the hook, why isn't anyone clamoring for Quinn today, just Tebow? I don't "hate" Tebow, I just think it's silly to annoint him because he's a "winner", based on ekeing out a single win against probably the league's worst defense and their offense playing without AJ. Maybe it's not simply a backlash against Tebow, maybe a lot of people just think that Denver is a team with a whole lot of problems and Orton, a decent, if unspectacular, QB, is actually one of the few postitives they have going for them; and that putting Tebow in and potentially negating the one area where they are competent to marginally improve one of their weak areas, where they're still going to be weak, doesn't make a ton of sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 14, 2011 Insipid. The starter is 5 of his last 23 and the 1st round draft choice, on the bench, is 1 for 3. You like his passing stats. Great. But the passing stats aren't translating into wins. In fact, they've added up to the lowest point in the franchise history (4 wins last season). Sure, no other fan base would be calling for a change in that situation. That you keep pumping up Tebow being 1 - 2 as something great is alarming. A 3 game sample size and you act as if he is the next coming. The fact that he can't perform well enough for coaches to raise him above the 3rd string right now should be telling to you...but for some reason, its not. Perhaps most realize there are more problems to the broncos that Kyle Orton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted September 14, 2011 Chirs Collinsworth gets it right. Finally a talking head who is able to think for himself, step back, and have some perspective. One thing I have learned over the years is that there are a lot of guys who look great in practice. Every year with the Bengals they would bring in guys that were freakish athletes for camp. Every year I found myself saying, "how am I going to beat THAT GUY out?" Then we put on the pads and started hitting. Amazing what happens to most of these freaks when their body is put in harms way. They usually don't run 4.3 anymore, and their vertical goes from 40 inches to 2. Guys that could bench press 400 pounds suddenly can no longer lift their arms above their head reaching for a ball. It happens every year. The flip side of that is every year there are guys who are a joke in shorts but turn into animals when the pads go on. I am coaching the local high school team (I thought for sure the lockout was going to last longer) and it is amazing how much my opinion of the guys on our team has changed since we started hitting. Football is strange game. It tests your courage every day. You have to convince your brain how much you enjoy getting hit. No kidding. I really believed that the worst thing that I could do to a defense was take a big hit and pop right up. While I may not have been able to catch my breath or walk a straight line back to the huddle, I promised myself that I would never give those jerks the satisfaction of knowing that. Which brings me to Tim Tebow. There is nothing about him that would lead you to believe he was worthy of being a first round pick unless you have met him and watched him in person. Almost every Gator that I know believes he is the single most competitive player in the history of the University of Florida. He would wrestle offensive linemen, kick everyone's tail in the weight room, and when the game was on the line, he would find a way to beat you. I went to the National Championship Game against Oklahoma and one of the Oklahoma players ran up to Tebow in pregame and just started screaming and pointing at him. Tebow barely reacted, but I turned to the guy next to me and said, "it is over, the Gators are a lock." Tebow proceeded to WILL the Gators to the Championship in a way that can't really be explained. Will Tim Tebow be a great NFL QB? I don't know. But I do know this, anybody who dismisses Tim Tebow because Kyle Orton throws the ball better in practice, had better wait until the fist fight starts. Then, and only then, will I start judging Tim Tebow's performance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tplbge 2 Posted September 14, 2011 Give Orton a chance. Maybe Tebow can help the defense out , because they need help badly! You do realize Orton hasn't....cough....ummm...won many games with the Bronco's. Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeaLerZ 0 Posted September 14, 2011 Chirs Collinsworth gets it right. Finally a talking head who is able to think for himself, step back, and have some perspective. I have to agree with Collinsworth... I was never a Gators fan, but Tebow is a gamer... he will never practice well because practice doesn't count... when the game starts though, he is the type of guy that gets fired up and starts playing his heart out and he is a winner... he will get an opportunity at some point, whether it is through a trade or something.. and when he does.. I truly believe the Broncos will be like "Why did we never play this guy?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blagrange 2 Posted September 14, 2011 How many people in this thread who are arguing for Orton have actually watched every Bronco game since Orton has been a starter. I know I have - and all the other bronco fans. That is why there were chants to put in Tebow. The fans are tired of watching mediocre QB play. Regardless of record, when Tebow came in last year the games felt different. Bronco fans felt we had a chance to come back, we were scoring td's in the redzone and a lot of fans had hope again. Monday night was like watching a rerun except now we have Von Miller. Unless you are a bronco fan I don't see why you care who starts. unless you like to argue just for the sake of arguing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted September 14, 2011 unless you like to argue just for the sake of arguing. You must be new. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted September 14, 2011 Was this for the points in the post, or the world's longest run-on sentence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BudBro 117 Posted September 14, 2011 If you live in the Denver area you would know that Tebow is light years behind Orton and Brady Quinn. He is THIRD string and he sucks! i qualify and would like to see tebow traded to someone who will utilize his ability to win. i will purchase that jersey and wear it in my stadium the day he arrives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 14, 2011 Few things...its not just ESPN...its NFL scouts, writers, coaches, former GMs...and the freaking team itself putting Tebow at #3 that makes us think Orton gives them the best chance to win. And you claim QB stats are misleading...yet you try using stats to say the numbers are not showing it for supporting Orton? So which is it? You miss my point. The only stat I'd care about as a coach, GM or fan is wins vs losses. Anyone can look at that team, as presently constructed, and see they're not going to win it all. So what's my next step? I can continue to go 4-12 with the same cast of characters, or see if some changes are in order. My veteran has gone 5-18 since mid-2009 and 3-10 last year. The rookie...whether he was my choice or not...went 1-2 with the same players. You can diminish the win, the sample size, whatever. The fact is that the other teams had guys fighting for future roster spots as well and every team has injuries every week. If I can't win it all, I'd sure rather see if I can win 1 of every 3 games with a kid who may improve, instead of 1 of every 4.25 games with a veteran who has shown me what he's got. BTW, NFL insiders (Lombardi specifically)have openly said Orton is a fine 1st and 2nd down guy, but wilts under pressure (physical or mental). He'll check down or throw it away rather than stand in and take the hit. So it's not like we're discussing a highly touted player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 14, 2011 That you keep pumping up Tebow being 1 - 2 as something great is alarming. Nobody's "pumping up" 1-2. 1-2 is nothing great. But a rookie that went 1-2 is showing a hell of a lot more than a 6 year veteran who went 3-10 with the same cast of characters. Additionally, after the upheaval of the coaching change, the vet went out and completely crapped the bed vs a 5-11 team. The rook finished up with 1 shaky and 2 pretty good performances. And by "performance", remember all I care about is whether he gave the team a "chance to win". That's the phrase people keep throwing around to support Orton despite his results. Aikman went, what, 1-15? Maning didn't do much netter as a rook. Before you start, I'm not comparing Tebow with either. Just illustrating that rookies require patience and seasoning. When my rookie won a better % of his starts than my veteran, maybe it's time for me to admit that it's possible I can't accurately predict every success, especially at a position where there are so many intangibles and "it" factors involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted September 14, 2011 You miss my point. The only stat I'd care about as a coach, GM or fan is wins vs losses. Anyone can look at that team, as presently constructed, and see they're not going to win it all. So what's my next step? I can continue to go 4-12 with the same cast of characters, or see if some changes are in order. My veteran has gone 5-18 since mid-2009 and 3-10 last year. The rookie...whether he was my choice or not...went 1-2 with the same players. You can diminish the win, the sample size, whatever. The fact is that the other teams had guys fighting for future roster spots as well and every team has injuries every week. If I can't win it all, I'd sure rather see if I can win 1 of every 3 games with a kid who may improve, instead of 1 of every 4.25 games with a veteran who has shown me what he's got. Or, alternatively, as a GM, I could consider that - despite what so many fans might think - a QB doesn't win or lose games by himself. I could then commit myself to working on addressing my team's other glaring deficiencies, instead of just going after my veteran - who has shown that he can play at a very high level at times - as a scapegoat. If I had a neighbor who had a car with four flats, a bad transmission, but a good engine, that he needed to get roadworthy, I wouldn't tell him to start by pulling out the engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 14, 2011 Or, alternatively, as a GM, I could consider that - despite what so many fans might think - a QB doesn't win or lose games by himself. I could then commit myself to working on addressing my team's other glaring deficiencies, instead of just going after my veteran - who has shown that he can play at a very high level at times - as a scapegoat. If I had a neighbor who had a car with four flats, a bad transmission, but a good engine, that he needed to get roadworthy, I wouldn't tell him to start by pulling out the engine. Understand what you're saying, but the reality is that you can't fix what's wrong with this team in season, or even in an off season. It's a complete rebuild, not like they need to tweak a few things. Sometimes the engine just doesn't fit the new chassis. Sell it for what you can get and start over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 14, 2011 You miss my point. The only stat I'd care about as a coach, GM or fan is wins vs losses. Anyone can look at that team, as presently constructed, and see they're not going to win it all. So what's my next step? I can continue to go 4-12 with the same cast of characters, or see if some changes are in order. My veteran has gone 5-18 since mid-2009 and 3-10 last year. The rookie...whether he was my choice or not...went 1-2 with the same players. You can diminish the win, the sample size, whatever. The fact is that the other teams had guys fighting for future roster spots as well and every team has injuries every week. If I can't win it all, I'd sure rather see if I can win 1 of every 3 games with a kid who may improve, instead of 1 of every 4.25 games with a veteran who has shown me what he's got. BTW, NFL insiders (Lombardi specifically)have openly said Orton is a fine 1st and 2nd down guy, but wilts under pressure (physical or mental). He'll check down or throw it away rather than stand in and take the hit. So it's not like we're discussing a highly touted player. I can diminish the sample size because its basic statistics. Now, saying if I can't win it, I want to see the kid play is one thing...claiming other things (as has happened in this thread while bashing Orton) is different. And Id wait to see if they don't improve some. Orton is not great, but far from a bad QB. And what do many of those insiders say about Tebow? Its like you want to take those people's opinions when they say Orton is bad...but dismiss them when they say Tebow is also bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 14, 2011 I can diminish the sample size because its basic statistics. Now, saying if I can't win it, I want to see the kid play is one thing...claiming other things (as has happened in this thread while bashing Orton) is different. And Id wait to see if they don't improve some. Orton is not great, but far from a bad QB. And what do many of those insiders say about Tebow? Its like you want to take those people's opinions when they say Orton is bad...but dismiss them when they say Tebow is also bad. Is 5-18 a big enough sample size? What's the minimum requirement? Because if I have a team that's going nowhere and a 1st round pick that I have big $ invested in, I'd like to give him a shot at that minimum. Only cited the opinion on Orton in response to those citing NFL people claiming Tebow can't play. Lombardi's opinion doesn't mean much to me. Nor does Collinsworth, Hodge, etc. I don't care who the player is, you can find nay sayers. I don't claim to know that Tebow will be better than Orton. He may flop. But from the limited info available...and what I've watched with my own eyes...they're a more competitive team when he plays. More competitive teams have a better chance to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desertfire 4 Posted September 14, 2011 Many of you are saying that coaches, scouts and experts all say Tebow doesn't have the skills to be an NFL QB, and they are always right huh? They were right about Warner, J. Russell, Leaf? Those guys are wrong all the time. Just because you have the "skills" doesn't mean you will be good. Just because you don't look like an NFL QB doesn't mean you cannot. Tebow has very good skills as he proved last season, in addition his drive, will, attitude is second to none. Give the guy a shot and let's see. We are going nowhere with Orton, let's at least see where Tebow can take us. If he sucks then cut him next year and draft Andrew Luck #1. The Broncos are stupid if they don't at least see what Tebow can do over a long stretch of games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fantasy Noob 10 Posted September 14, 2011 Tebow would have been a legend if he had won that second National Title. As it is he was a good running college QB that probably wont ever get the chance to succeed in the NFL simply due to lack of opportunity. It's too bad too, 32 teams and half of them are fielding below average QB's but it is also the one position that if screwed up will get a coach and GM fired faster than anything. Because of this the coaches and GM's will probably never give Tebow a fair shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted January 9, 2012 :tebow: look, we all acknowledge that you are the undisputed king of digging up old threads...can ya stop now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
