Joe Flacco looking to cash in

[Canadianfan 76]

Joe Flacco will ask for 20 and will have no problem getting it. His timing is perfect, he beat Brady, Manning and torched the best defense in the NFL......CHA CHING

[murf74 461]

 

Don't be a hater. 11 TDs, 0 INTs and a 117.2 QB rating in this year's playoffs speaks for itself.

 

I think he got an extremely hot hand and is a good QB, but it's not hating bringing up his mediocre regular seasons. He has many stretches of just awfulness. He had 10 games with one or less TDs this year and same for 2011.

 

so which is the real Flacco? The 2 years worth of mediocre regular seasons or the Flacco that tore it up for 4 games in the playoffs

 

Its somewhere in the middle

 

Do you really think he is better than Brady, Manning and Brees and every other QB he will be paid higher than?

 

That's the discussion here.

 

He will be overpaid period.

[Durtee 0]

I think he got an extremely hot hand and is a good QB, but it's not hating bringing up his mediocre regular seasons. He has many stretches of just awfulness. He had 10 games with one or less TDs this year and same for 2011.

 

so which is the real Flacco? The 2 years worth of mediocre regular seasons or the Flacco that tore it up for 4 games in the playoffs

 

Its somewhere in the middle

 

Do you really think he is better than Brady, Manning and Brees and every other QB he will be paid higher than?

 

That's the discussion here.

 

He will be overpaid period.

 

This is pretty much dead on.

 

Flacco is a good QB and deserves to be paid as such. The timing of him playing well above his norm was perfect, which will get him elite money. The contract he signs will be because of this playoff run.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

I think he got an extremely hot hand and is a good QB, but it's not hating bringing up his mediocre regular seasons. He has many stretches of just awfulness. He had 10 games with one or less TDs this year and same for 2011.

 

so which is the real Flacco? The 2 years worth of mediocre regular seasons or the Flacco that tore it up for 4 games in the playoffs

 

Its somewhere in the middle

 

Do you really think he is better than Brady, Manning and Brees and every other QB he will be paid higher than?

 

That's the discussion here.

 

He will be overpaid period.

 

Now you're changing tactics. First you said Flacco did not really play as well as people thought in the playoffs. When shown incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, you shifted your argument. You're just looking for any excuse to back up your preconceived thoughts here.

 

To answer your (new) question: I think it's certainly debatable if Flacco is as good as Brady, Manning and Brees at this point in their respective careers.

 

Sure his regular season numbers aren't nearly as good (although he plays in a much more conservative offense). But he outplayed Brady in last year's playoffs and then outplayed Manning AND Brady in this year's playoffs. So when they're going head to head, yes, he apparently is at least comparable to those guys.

[murf74 461]

Now you're changing tactics. First you said Flacco did not really play as well as people thought in the playoffs. When shown incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, you shifted your argument. You're just looking for any excuse to back up your preconceived thoughts here.

 

To answer your (new) question: I think it's certainly debatable if Flacco is as good as Brady, Manning and Brees at this point in their respective careers.

 

Sure his regular season numbers aren't nearly as good (although he plays in a much more conservative offense). But he outplayed Brady in last year's playoffs and then outplayed Manning AND Brady in this year's playoffs. So when they're going head to head, yes, he apparently is at least comparable to those guys.

 

Are the examples given true:

 

He underthrew Jones....CHECK

He disappeared in 2nd half....CHECK

Boldin and Smith bailed him out consistently......CHECK

 

You are just arguing for arguing sake. Now saying he is as good as Brady and Manning 5yrs into their career ? The facts just make that a silly comparison.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Are the examples given true:

 

He underthrew Jones....CHECK

He disappeared in 2nd half....CHECK

Boldin and Smith bailed him out consistently......CHECK

 

You are just arguing for arguing sake. Now saying he is as good as Brady and Manning 5yrs into their career ? The facts just make that a silly comparison.

 

That's all nonsense, except your point about his production dropping off in the second half. But I think that's pretty typical of QB production when you have a big lead. You want to take time off the clock and minimize the possibility of turnovers, so you necessarily become less aggressive including noy taking risky shots down the field. And Flacco did give them enough to win in the end. Certainly the defensive stand at the end was pivotal, but every successful quarterback in the history of the game has gotten some help from his defense at one point or another.

 

You're grasping at straws. Is Flacco the best in the game? Probably not. But he's up there among the best right now. BTW we are talking about right now, not over the course of their careers. The latter would make little sense vis-a-vis what sort of contract he deserves TODAY.

[murf74 461]

That's all nonsense, except your point about his production dropping off in the second half. But I think that's pretty typical of QB production when you have a big lead. You want to take time off the clock and minimize the possibility of turnovers, so you necessarily become less aggressive including noy taking risky shots down the field. And Flacco did give them enough to win in the end. Certainly the defensive stand at the end was pivotal, but every successful quarterback in the history of the game has gotten some help from his defense at one point or another.

 

You're grasping at straws. Is Flacco the best in the game? Probably not. But he's up there among the best right now. BTW we are talking about right now, not over the course of their careers. The latter would make little sense vis-a-vis what sort of contract he deserves TODAY.

 

You really didnt think he didnt badly underthrew Jones on that superbowl TD? Really?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm6fkIZcI8

 

And Flacco didnt throw up some prayers and Boldin just beasted out a catch?

 

He is in the Ben + Eli tier of QBs....sensational at points ugly in others, not worthy of the check Ravens will be stroking

[IGotWorms 3,317]

You really didnt think he didnt badly underthrew Jones on that superbowl TD? Really?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm6fkIZcI8

 

And Flacco didnt throw up some prayers and Boldin just beasted out a catch?

 

He is in the Ben + Eli tier of QBs....sensational at points ugly in others, not worthy of the check Ravens will be stroking

 

Wow, that's stupid. Yeah, he didn't hit Jones in stride. I don't think that's unusual on a deep bomb. And it still resulted in a TD anyway. You are hardcore nitpicking here.

 

And even if it were a poor throw, which it wasn't, you still can't argue with his overall production in the playoffs. You might say "oh this throw was off" or "he got lucky there", but when you add it all up over the course of the playoffs the only result is that Flacco was a straight focking baller. Any other conclusion is ludicrous.

[murf74 461]

Wow, that's stupid. Yeah, he didn't hit Jones in stride. I don't think that's unusual on a deep bomb. And it still resulted in a TD anyway. You are hardcore nitpicking here.

 

And even if it were a poor throw, which it wasn't, you still can't argue with his overall production in the playoffs. You might say "oh this throw was off" or "he got lucky there", but when you add it all up over the course of the playoffs the only result is that Flacco was a straight focking baller. Any other conclusion is ludicrous.

 

It was a poor throw that Jones made a great adjustment on and even after that how many WRs can catch a ball falling backwards and get up and scatter for a TD? That play was all about Jones.

 

He had a LOT of great throws in the playoffs, this wasn't one of them. If there was a defender within 20yds (how did that happen) it would have been intercepted easily. In the NFL you rarely get away with an underthrow like that

[edjr 5,567]

You really didnt think he didnt badly underthrew Jones on that superbowl TD? Really?

 

 

 

Is that English?

 

Knuckle dragging steeler's fan

[Houston Texans 10]

If there was a defender within 20yds (how did that happen) it would have been intercepted easily.

This isn't exactly true. Flacco made a similarly bad throw at the end of regulation against Denver. The safety should have picked that ball (or at the very least, knocked it down), but he completely whiffed on the play, and Jones got another TD on a horrible pass.

 

Flacco played well throughout the playoffs, but those 2 passes, in particular, were very bad passes that he got lucky on. What's funny is that if the pass against Denver hadn't happened, we'd still be looking at Flacco how we always did: he is a game-manager QB who needs a great D and run game, but can't lead his team to victory. But since a Denver safety failed to make a simple play, and Peyton Manning throws an overtime INT that results in great field position (Flacco didn't complete a single throw on the game-winning drive), people are arguing that he is better than Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc?

[IGotWorms 3,317]

This isn't exactly true. Flacco made a similarly bad throw at the end of regulation against Denver. The safety should have picked that ball (or at the very least, knocked it down), but he completely whiffed on the play, and Jones got another TD on a horrible pass.

 

Flacco played well throughout the playoffs, but those 2 passes, in particular, were very bad passes that he got lucky on. What's funny is that if the pass against Denver hadn't happened, we'd still be looking at Flacco how we always did: he is a game-manager QB who needs a great D and run game, but can't lead his team to victory. But since a Denver safety failed to make a simple play, and Peyton Manning throws an overtime INT that results in great field position (Flacco didn't complete a single throw on the game-winning drive), people are arguing that he is better than Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc?

 

The problem with this game is that you can play it all day. If Tyree didn't make the circus helmet catch and Manningham didn't make that incredible catch last year, Eli Manning has no Superbowls. If Santonio Holmes didn't make one of the most amazing catches in Superbowl history, Roethlisberger only has one Superbowl title. If Brady didn't get bailed out by the tuck rule, he never would've won the Superbowl in his first year as a starter.

 

Etc., etc., etc.

 

Look, sometimes players do get lucky--it's a big part of the game. But when you have the level of production Flacco had throughout the playoffs, it's a lot more than luck.

[Houston Texans 10]

The problem with this game is that you can play it all day. If Tyree didn't make the circus helmet catch and Manningham didn't make that incredible catch last year, Eli Manning has no Superbowls. If Santonio Holmes didn't make one of the most amazing catches in Superbowl history, Roethlisberger only has one Superbowl title. If Brady didn't get bailed out by the tuck rule, he never would've won the Superbowl in his first year as a starter.

 

Etc., etc., etc.

 

Look, sometimes players do get lucky--it's a big part of the game. But when you have the level of production Flacco had throughout the playoffs, it's a lot more than luck.

I never said it wasn't more than luck. I said he played well throughout the playoffs. The fact is, though, that if the Denver safety hadn't screwed that play up, the Ravens would have lost, Flacco wouldn't have thrown 11 TDs, no picks, won the SB, been voted SB MVP, and been in line to be the highest paid player in the league. It was a poor pass, shouldn't have been thrown (it wasn't 4th down, the clock wasn't at 0:00, etc), and should have been picked off. 99/100 in the NFL, that pass is picked off, and the Flacco playoff legend would never have been written. He'd still be the guy who can manage a game, win on a team with a strong running game & good "D," but isn't able to do it on his own.

[sirensong 111]

The problem with this game is that you can play it all day. If Tyree didn't make the circus helmet catch and Manningham didn't make that incredible catch last year, Eli Manning has no Superbowls. If Santonio Holmes didn't make one of the most amazing catches in Superbowl history, Roethlisberger only has one Superbowl title. If Brady didn't get bailed out by the tuck rule, he never would've won the Superbowl in his first year as a starter.

 

 

these are all good examples, but what they have that flacco doesn't is repeat performances. when flacco puts together another great run, he should be considered on the eli/ben level. when he does it without the level of help that he has been getting, he may be able to claim brees money.

 

until then, he's a very good QB and his salary should reflect that--very good, but not great.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

these are all good examples, but what they have that flacco doesn't is repeat performances. when flacco puts together another great run, he should be considered on the eli/ben level. when he does it without the level of help that he has been getting, he may be able to claim brees money.

 

until then, he's a very good QB and his salary should reflect that--very good, but not great.

 

Well you pretty much have to pay him on the assumption that he DOES have a few more great runs in him, right? Otherwise somebody else will. Contracts are mainly based on what the team thinks a player will do in the future, not what he's done in the past.

[sirensong 111]

Well you pretty much have to pay him on the assumption that he DOES have a few more great runs in him, right? Otherwise somebody else will. Contracts are mainly based on what the team thinks a player will do in the future, not what he's done in the past.

 

i agree with that, but the decision-making process is based on value. since he has come into the league, flacco hasn't even been the MVP on his own team--lewis, reed, and then rice have been more valuable to the ravens. compare that to guys like brees, brady, and rodgers, who are all clearly the MVPs of their teams.

 

so the front office has a tough decision to make--how much of the salary cap are they going to wager that flacco will become the MVP of the team, when he hasn't yet done it? is one 3-game stretch sufficient evidence? at about the same stage in his career, phill simms had arguably the most flawless QB performance ever in a super bowl--does that mean he should have been given top QB money? look what happened afterwards--he got injured, and his backup led the same team to a lombardi trophy without missing a beat.

 

so it's a bit more complicated than you seem to think.

[mister 0]

He's getting paid somewhere...and he isn't Brees/Brady/Peyton so it's crazy he's getting so much. Super Bowls make you look a lot better for sure, hard to see him playing as well as he did in the 2012 playoffs for the rest of his career, but hey maybe he found his groove. It would be interesting to see if they get a deal done, use the exclusive tag (20.5 mil), or use the non-exclusive tag (14.6 mil) which allows him to talk to other teams and gives Baltimore two 1st rounders if they don't match the deal to the other team. Luckily for Aaron Rodgers, he can wait and watch Flacco sign his deal and than cash in even more. I'd rather see guys like Flacco get the huge dollars than the incoming rookies who have not proved anything, which they fixed in 2011.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

i agree with that, but the decision-making process is based on value. since he has come into the league, flacco hasn't even been the MVP on his own team--lewis, reed, and then rice have been more valuable to the ravens. compare that to guys like brees, brady, and rodgers, who are all clearly the MVPs of their teams.

 

so the front office has a tough decision to make--how much of the salary cap are they going to wager that flacco will become the MVP of the team, when he hasn't yet done it? is one 3-game stretch sufficient evidence? at about the same stage in his career, phill simms had arguably the most flawless QB performance ever in a super bowl--does that mean he should have been given top QB money? look what happened afterwards--he got injured, and his backup led the same team to a lombardi trophy without missing a beat.

 

so it's a bit more complicated than you seem to think.

 

My entire point in this thread is that people are wrong to say "well Flacco is only wroth $15 million".

 

Is he worth $20 million? I dunno. But you can't dismiss it out of hand, which is exactly what I've been trying to get across.

 

So yeah, I realize that it's "complicated."

[The Moz 69]

Joe if you want money Oakland will pay you a blank check and make you the richest QB in the NFL. You want to win - you settle for what you should be paid 15-16 mil a year and stay where you are

[GreenTD 56]

Joe if you want money Oakland will pay you a blank check and make you the richest QB in the NFL. You want to win - you settle for what you should be paid 15-16 mil a year and stay where you are

 

Winnah! Maybe he'll opt for a new team that'll pay him the cash he wants since he's got a Superbowl ring & MVP on his resume now. Easier for him to make that move now I guess.

[MDC 5,895]

I can only think of maybe 5 QBs who are definitely better than Flacco right now with maybe another 5-6 who are in his range. Joe is in the bottom half of the Top 10, he has never missed a start, made the playoffs every year in the league and he's only 28. He'll make somewhere around $17-18 million a year.