israel palestine conflict, a tutorial

[Sho Nuff 719]

No. The parents asked for it. Again. It's an unfortunate side affect of tolerating a terrorist organization as their leaders. Palestine is not big. They should be able to find safety.

 

The other problem is...you don't know who exactly supported Hamas...or if they really still do.

That they tolerate it may be more being forced to.

Id have no problem if you are talking of those that openly support Hamas...openly call for the death of Israel and if they are willingly sheltering terrorists.

3 guys on a motorcycle outside of a shelter? It amazes me that people think this is an ok form of collateral damage.

Again...you say find safety...but a UN shelter should be safe? Can we agree here (since this is what started the latest round of conversation in this thread)?

[Eaglesin14 12]

 

Interesting as very few Israeli civilian lives have been lost.

I think part of the problem is that sides don't see others as civilian.

 

That is only because of the Iron Dome defense system Israel has to deploy because of terrorists like Hamas who think they can lob rockets into Israel with no repercussions.

[Sho Nuff 719]

We killed plenty of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

But still try to avoid it at all costs.

Just like we didn't take the shot at OBL because of where he was. Nor do we simply target civilian areas for 3 militants.

[Frank M 181]

Exactly.

 

If you elect terrorists who run on a platform of shooting rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas of your neighbor you should expect bad things to happen. If you don't like getting bombed, elect people who can live in a civilized world.

 

I'm sure there's a proportion of those people who didn't vote for Hamas. Do they deserve getting bombed too?

 

I think Hamas should get what they deserve, it's just a stupid argument to say that the civilians deserve it as well for voting for Hamas when not all of them did.

 

I'm quite sure you'd protest if someone beat the shite out of you because it's what you deserve for electing Obama.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

Interesting as very few Israeli civilian lives have been lost.

 

Better weapons, better medicine, better training in both. The Israeli army might be the best trained fighting force in the world.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

I'm sure there's a proportion of those people who didn't vote for Hamas. Do they deserve getting bombed too?

 

I think Hamas should get what they deserve, it's just a stupid argument to say that the civilians deserve it as well for voting for Hamas when not all of them did.

 

I'm quite sure you'd protest if someone beat the shite out of you because it's what you deserve for electing Obama.

the deserved to be bombed question should be asked of hamas, as they are the ones putting the civilians in that situation.

Simple really

[Eaglesin14 12]

 

But still try to avoid it at all costs.

Just like we didn't take the shot at OBL because of where he was. Nor do we simply target civilian areas for 3 militants.

Israel drops leaflets telling Palestinians to get out of an area they will bomb in the future. Jeebus, you have no clue what is actually going on over there.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/13/world/meast/mideast-tensions/

[Frank M 181]

the deserved to be bombed question should be asked of hamas, as they are the ones putting the civilians in that situation.

Simple really

You already know the answer to this. Hamas doesn't give a shite about killing israelis or about the civilains in Gaza They're a terrorist organization. Israel is not.

 

Using civilians as human shields is an absolutely despicable practice and Hamas deserves to be wiped out for that and many other reasons. That's not the argument. The argument is whether it's the right thing for Israel to bomb them in those instances when the collateral damage will be so high. Apparently Israel feels that's a price their willing to pay to keep Israelis alive, since the only way to truly defeat Hamas is to send troops into Gaza to wipe them out once and for all.

 

Some people may have the opinion that the price in civilian lives is too high, whether Hamas started and continues the conflict.

[Sho Nuff 719]

You already know the answer to this. Hamas doesn't give a shite about killing israelis or about the civilains in Gaza They're a terrorist organization. Israel is not.

 

Using civilians as human shields is an absolutely despicable practice and Hamas deserves to be wiped out for that and many other reasons. That's not the argument. The argument is whether it's the right thing for Israel to bomb them in those instances when the collateral damage will be so high. Apparently Israel feels that's a price their willing to pay to keep Israelis alive, since the only way to truly defeat Hamas is to send troops into Gaza to wipe them out once and for all.

 

Some people may have the opinion that the price in civilian lives is too high, whether Hamas started and continues the conflict.

 

Exactly...that and does anyone think they will be able to fully wipe Hamas out?

The other thing you will see...is they are creating more young Palestinians to hate them.

[drobeski 3,061]

Ok, so what should isreal do ?

[rholio 339]

Ok, so what should isreal do ?

 

At this point? Be the bad guys and go full scorched earth policy. Don't leave a building, person, or camel standing. Right now, everyone is condemning Israel for doing what the Palestinians already do to them. Should they be condemned for it? Absolutely, it's focking despicable behavior. Thing is, it's been happening to them for decades.

[Eaglesin14 12]

Ok, so what should isreal do ?

I anxiously await Sho Nuff's plan.

[drobeski 3,061]

I anxiously await Sho Nuff's plan.

rainbow flags for everybody

[Frank M 181]

Ok, so what should isreal do ?

 

Tough to say. Probably exactly what they're doing and live with the condemnation.

[Eaglesin14 12]

rainbow flags for everybody

#stopfiringmissilesatourkidsprettyplease campaign?

[Sho Nuff 719]

rainbow flags for everybody

 

Good to see the new sporto is obsessed with someone ignoring him as the old versions were.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

Tough to say. Probably exactly what they're doing and live with the condemnation.

 

Probably...though, probably have to go even further and fully invade to really get rid of hamas.

Problem is...what pops up after that...considering what they will end up doing is pissing off more young Palestinians to hate them...along with pissing off the rest of the Muslim world even more and even some who were on their side.

They are in a crappy position to be sure.

[Eaglesin14 12]

 

Probably.

 

So the best plan you can come up with is to do exactly what Israel is now doing. Funny, since you called it an "idiotic strategy" earlier in this thread.

 

 

 

Its an idiotic strategy.

 

 

[crackattack 513]

I guess it's ok for Palestine and Hamas to fire missiles at civilians multiple times a day, but when Israel has had enough and retaliates.....they're the bad guys???? Fock that. Israel has done enough in my opinion to limit civilian casualties. Do accidents happen in combat and cost civilian lives....yes. Palestine should just be lucky their country isn't leveled.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I guess it's ok for Palestine and Hamas to fire missiles at civilians multiple times a day, but when Israel has had enough and retaliates.....they're the bad guys???? Fock that. Israel has done enough in my opinion to limit civilian casualties. Do accidents happen in combat and cost civilian lives....yes. Palestine should just be lucky their country isn't leveled.

 

I don't think anyone said its ok for Hamas to do so.

And nobody is saying Israel are the bad guys in comparison.

That seems to be the disconnect here. If someone says Israel is not 100% innocent in all of this people think you are taking the Palestinian side. (similar to any political discussion here that if you take any left leaning position or make fun of a right winger...you are labeled a libtard).

 

I disagree.

I don't think Israel does much at all to limit civilian casualties. I think they do the bare minimum to appease some people.

[crackattack 513]

Considering Israel doesn't have to do anything to limit civilian casualties, I'd say their doing enough. They have issued warnings to Hamas. They have dropped leaflets to warn civilians about incoming attacks. They have abided by the cease-fires until broken by Hamas. I'd say that's way more then necessary.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Considering Israel doesn't have to do anything to limit civilian casualties, I'd say their doing enough. They have issued warnings to Hamas. They have dropped leaflets to warn civilians about incoming attacks. They have abided by the cease-fires until broken by Hamas. I'd say that's way more then necessary.

 

Sure...they don't have to. But will look pretty shiotty not doing so.

Leaflets probably do very little.

What would you do if you got a leaflet telling you to leave your home...and where would you go?

Again...probably in that situation to something like a UN shelter right?

Only to have it get hit because some guys on motorcycles were outside...but that is acceptable to some of you.

I just don't get that mentality or lack of care about people who may be truely innocent of even supporting such people.

[SUXBNME 1,343]

Better weapons, better medicine, better training in both. The Israeli army might be the best trained fighting force in the world.

Acreed. You don't fock with the Mossad.

[drobeski 3,061]

They've found rockets in these so called UN safe havens, and hospitals....hack trying to reduce it to "motorcycles"

 

Not shocking really

[Sho Nuff 719]

They've found rockets in these so called UN safe havens, and hospitals....hack trying to reduce it to "motorcycles"

 

Not shocking really

Did you read what was posted that got this started today?

Link to them finding rockets in there?

Or just being your usual hack self.

Notice crack and I could have a conversation and disagree with each other without resorting to this type of nonsense that you always throw out with people who don't fall in line with your way of thinking.

[crackattack 513]

 

Sure...they don't have to. But will look pretty shiotty not doing so.

Leaflets probably do very little.

What would you do if you got a leaflet telling you to leave your home...and where would you go?

Again...probably in that situation to something like a UN shelter right?

Only to have it get hit because some guys on motorcycles were outside...but that is acceptable to some of you.

I just don't get that mentality or lack of care about people who may be truely innocent of even supporting such people.

If I lived in a country that bombed it's neighbor daily, then said neighbor says "enough" and drops leaflets warning civilians to leave, I'd focking leave. The UN bombing was bad, but happens in war. Maybe. Just maybe. The Palestinians should stand up and oust Hamas. Maybe the non Hamas voters should protest. Maybe they should revolt. Maybe they should move. I don't know and I don't care honestly. They kept focking with Israel and this is what happens. The innocent civilians should be blaming their own government.

[Sho Nuff 719]

If I lived in a country that bombed it's neighbor daily, then said neighbor says "enough" and drops leaflets warning civilians to leave, I'd focking leave. The UN bombing was bad, but ###### happens in war. Maybe. Just maybe. The Palestinians should stand up and oust Hamas. Maybe the non Hamas voters should protest. Maybe they should revolt. Maybe they should move. I don't know and I don't care honestly. They kept focking with Israel and this is what happens. The innocent civilians should be blaming their own government.

 

The UN one is the type that bother me the most...and the latest that was being discussed as a shelter that had people displaced by all of this was damaged by the latest attack as linked on page 2.

And where should people go...say from Gaza?

Across Israel into the West Bank? Egypt?

[drobeski 3,061]

Snuff are you denying that Hamas has had rockets in these un locations?

[crackattack 513]

 

The UN one is the type that bother me the most...and the latest that was being discussed as a shelter that had people displaced by all of this was damaged by the latest attack as linked on page 2.

And where should people go...say from Gaza?

Across Israel into the West Bank? Egypt?

Anywhere away from the combat. Civilians who are choosing to stay in an area that has been warned, well....that's their right and choice. Might not be the brightest thing to do, but these are the people who elected terrorists as their acting government, but they were warned.

[Eaglesin14 12]

Snuff are you denying that Hamas has had rockets in these un locations?

He doesn't think Israel "does much at all" to limit civilian casualties. No clue about the leaflets they drop, so him not knowing Hamas is storing ammo and rockets at UN facilities isn't a stretch.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Snuff are you denying that Hamas has had rockets in these un locations?

 

Im asking you to back up your claims.

Specifically in the shelter hit that worms linked to on page 2 that brought this thread back up again.

Since you claimed I was "reducing it to motorcycles"...despite that being what the article actually said.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Anywhere away from the combat. Civilians who are choosing to stay in an area that has been warned, well....that's their right and choice. Might not be the brightest thing to do, but these are the people who elected terrorists as their acting government, but they were warned.

 

Id argue that many here would not leave the country...and would be upset at those continuing to target civilian areas to hit some militants.

Collateral damage is one thing when you are hitting a high level target...I have less sympathy there...but hit 3 guys like this...3 more pop right in to replace them easily.

Not really a target worth hitting quite a few civilians over IMO.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Im asking you to back up your claims.

Specifically in the shelter hit that worms linked to on page 2 that brought this thread back up again.

Since you claimed I was "reducing it to motorcycles"...despite that being what the article actually said.

my claim is that hamas has stored and fired rockets from these UN locations....

Therefore UN or not UN, hamas is the ones making them targets.

 

But hackmaster snuff keeps trying

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Im asking you to back up your claims.

Specifically in the shelter hit that worms linked to on page 2 that brought this thread back up again.

Since you claimed I was "reducing it to motorcycles"...despite that being what the article actually said.

you realize that article is from he NYT right, a hack news outlet? You get that right, or are your hack glasses too foggy ?

[drobeski 3,061]

Oh ....and near school is now the same as fired on UN school ....

 

Shocking the hacks would point the finger at isreal, focking terror apologists are disgusting

[crackattack 513]

I get your point. I just don't feel bad for Palestinians. Their complacency and or support of Hamas has brought this on themselves. Stop shooting hundreds of rockets a day at Israel and innocent Palestinians won't be at risk of dying.

[Sho Nuff 719]

my claim is that hamas has stored and fired rockets from these UN locations....

Therefore UN or not UN, hamas is the ones making them targets.

 

But hackmaster snuff keeps trying

 

So, you refuse to back up the link about the story being discussed here so you can spew out the same old support Israel talking points.

Thanks...but I already figured you would not come close to trying to link to anything.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I get your point. I just don't feel bad for Palestinians. Their complacency and or support of Hamas has brought this on themselves. Stop shooting hundreds of rockets a day at Israel and innocent Palestinians won't be at risk of dying.

 

I might agree and have less sympathy if anything was different before Hamas running things.

Both sides seem hell bent on never having true peace.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

So, you refuse to back up the link about the story being discussed here so you can spew out the same old support Israel talking points.

Thanks...but I already figured you would not come close to trying to link to anything.

back up what ? Whatchutalkinboutwillis..

What is there to back up, hamas makes "near a un school a target" shame on hamas and the UN for allowing it.

[crackattack 513]

 

I might agree and have less sympathy if anything was different before Hamas running things.

Both sides seem hell bent on never having true peace.

I don't know. I don't ever recall Israel invading Palestine withou be provoked first. I don't recall Israel shelling their neighbors simply because their Muslims. I don't recall Israelites strapping bombs on themselves and blowing up Palestinian civilians. I'm pretty sure Israel has been extremely patient over the decades concerning muslim hatred and violence toward Israel.