lambert58 56 Posted March 12, 2015 FOCKING CMH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 I kind of expected BC to take Harrison considering his 3B situation. My original goal was to trade down and go Hamels/Arenado, but 29 taking Frazier forced my hand and I couldn't swing a deal to move up for Hamels. With Hamels gone and Braun (right around #10 on my OF rankings) sliding all the way to me, I couldn't pass him up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lambert58 56 Posted March 12, 2015 I was surprised Harrison kept falling.. Made me get my hopes up and everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackClouds 24 Posted March 12, 2015 Harrison played way over his head last season. Major regression this year. Plus, I already have a stud 3B...oh wait. And I already have a guy named Josh who qualifies for three positions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 Harrison played way over his head last season. Major regression this year. Plus, I already have a stud 3B...oh wait. And I already have a guy named Josh who qualifies for three positions. I totally agree about Harrison though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 Sorry guys, i should have my pick in by 230 eastern when I'm done traveling around to different places for work. I don't have my list with me. Was looking at 4 players and I think they all fell. I can quickly say I was th8nk ing about harrison before this thing kicked off b3csuse of his flexibility but I think last year he played over his head Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmh6476 757 Posted March 12, 2015 Hopefully moustakas plays over his head this year and just frees up the pick for added flexibility to play players based on who's hot at the moment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 Okay so I probably didn't think this one through completely, been a hectic day and didn't think I'd be up until tonight. Few f8n things. - I didn't have any interest in Justin Upton but would have drafted him and renamed my team the Tampa Diego Pad Rays - if I didn't trade up from the 8th pick and missed Abreu (or Tulowitzki) thr guy I was planning to take at 8 is still on the board - should I have gone offense? Probably. Oh well Now in regards to JV. Horrid season last year right? If you ignore the era he still win 15 games and had 18 QS which now count in our format. I'm also a believer that he struggled a bit due to the whole core muscle surgery from January 2014. Read he added 20 lbs of muscle and I'm thinking he can get back to being more like himself.... I hope.... plus he's always been a favorite of mine so why not own him once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuardBum 73 Posted March 12, 2015 Verlander is a good pick. I say that because of he had made it to mine I was taking him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lambert58 56 Posted March 12, 2015 Verlander was a great pick and he never would have made it to GB. He was on my radar for sure. I went with Dozier just because i felt he was the best overall player on the board left from an offensive stanpoint. Scores a bunch of runs, hits 20 bombs, steals 20 bases, a doubles machine. Just a solid player that I can use at Utilitly or 2B depending on who I believe is the better fielder between him and Wong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuardBum 73 Posted March 12, 2015 So Verlander was the guy I was hoping for. I felt I had to take Robertson or Betances with my earlier rd 2 pick so after JV was of the board I had 4 guys i was going around with. Decided on Wood for the upside, the fact that he does have SP & RP, and he plays for my NL Braves. Gotta root for the kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 The guy I as good g to take at 8 is still there. Could have drafted tulo at 5 and taken the other guy in round 2. No way to know but ironic. The offensive guy I was considering along with JV in ro8nd 28 is another bounce back type. That made it easier for me to take verlander since the hitter isn't a slam dunk either. The two guys I can't name I think will both be going undrafted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 Tigers fan here and kind of floored at so much Verlander love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lambert58 56 Posted March 12, 2015 Man... I just couldn't pass up that value with Dickerson. Great stats with only 400 AB's last year and playing in Colorado. Was thinking of going for the saves (yea, one guy behind me so who cares) or for another Starter but just couldn't let him slide. McCutchen, Heyward, Dickerson, with Beltran to fill in for the OF. All 3 could be 20/20 guys and 75+ RBI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 Man... I just couldn't pass up that value with Dickerson. Great stats with only 400 AB's last year and playing in Colorado. Was thinking of going for the saves (yea, one guy behind me so who cares) or for another Starter but just couldn't let him slide. McCutchen, Heyward, Dickerson, with Beltran to fill in for the OF. All 3 could be 20/20 guys and 75+ RBI. not knocking the pick as all of the guys being drafted in this area have ?'s and i probably overlooked Dickerson a bit but i did read some things when i made my initial supp draft list where his batting average was significantly worse away from Coors. Most guys are the same but the whole coors impact is usually more in regards to power numbers than straight batting average. and that he was also not very good against lefties. im sure hell end up being an all star though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 now that this thing is done I can drop names! - the guy who went undrafted who I planned to take with pick #8 if Abreu and Tulowitzki were gone was non other than..... Joey Votto! I think a healthy (big if) Votto will outproduce Freddie Freeman due to their supporting casts as well as Posey/Lucroy although obviously those guys are being drafted for their catcher status and are therefore more valuable. Still, im surprised someone didn't bite on Votto with his potential 30+ doubles, 25+ homers and 100+ walks. -the guy who i really wanted in round 2 was Starling Marte. nice pick, Mets! - I already had Abreu so I really couldn't justify drafting Votto in round 2 as a strict Utility spot, so the batter I was wavering on when I took Verlander was...... Jay Bruce. His 2010-2013 power numbrs are great 30+ HR's, 90-100 RBI, lots of runs as well. Yeah he bats .250 at best but for a team lacking power, like mine, he was hard to pass up. - I expected someone to take a shot on Tanaka's elbow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 Thoughts... - Considered Dickerson if Braun hadn't made it down to me. While I was put off by the huge home/road splits, the near identical numbers in the first and second halves last year negate that a bit. I was a bit more concerned with the lack of track record combined with the Coors effect which has caused more than a few players to be anointed the next superstar only to fade into oblivion. - If Braun had been taken before me (with Marte and Upton already gone) I would probably have gone SP...and the top names on my list were Sonny Gray and Alex Wood. I like Tyson Ross, but the fact he was shut down last year for forearm tightness concerns me. Tanaka wasn't on my radar for health reasons. - While the Verlander pick surprised me, the unquestionable "out of left field" pick for me was Yasmany Tomas. I'm guessing this was a pick for the Cuban hype, but I don't think Tomas is at a point in his development where he can come in and instantly be a monster like Abreu and Puig were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 Tigers fan here and kind of floored at so much Verlander love. as a Tiger fan, I am curious to hear your take on him. I might be totally blinded as I have been a huge Verlander fan since he debuted. Back when I used to play fantasy baseball with my HS buddies, he was a sneaky pick I made one year. 2006 i think, and he broke out big time and Ive been a fan ever since. his ERA was horrid last year and his WHIP not good but I figured he won 15 games with 18 QS... unless he regresses more, thats not bad for what was considered a terrible season. I read a ton of stuff on his off season. I know he is a gamer and confident guy but i'm tending to believe that the whole core muscle surgery played a big part in his velocity dip and the weakness of his usually nasty curve. Is it true that he was down to 210 lbs at some point? If he really added 20 lbs of muscle and his core and legs are back to being 100% strength, I could see him getting back to 93 MPH on the fastball and his curve getting its bite back ? is it completely unrealistic to project 17-10, 3.6 ERA, 180 K's 20 QS ? because honestly i don't see that coming from Gray, Wood, Teheran or any SP drafted after Hamels. All those guys lost a ton of offensive support. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuardBum 73 Posted March 12, 2015 Love Votto but didn't have justification for more power when pitching was a glaring need. Thought about Tanaka but figured more pitching risk on my team wasn't smart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuardBum 73 Posted March 12, 2015 Also like Santana of the twins. If I hadn't traded up for Tulowitzki I was probably going SP and trading down to take the SS/OF with speed late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 as a Tiger fan, I am curious to hear your take on him. I might be totally blinded as I have been a huge Verlander fan since he debuted. Back when I used to play fantasy baseball with my HS buddies, he was a sneaky pick I made one year. 2006 i think, and he broke out big time and Ive been a fan ever since. his ERA was horrid last year and his WHIP not good but I figured he won 15 games with 18 QS... unless he regresses more, thats not bad for what was considered a terrible season. I read a ton of stuff on his off season. I know he is a gamer and confident guy but i'm tending to believe that the whole core muscle surgery played a big part in his velocity dip and the weakness of his usually nasty curve. Is it true that he was down to 210 lbs at some point? If he really added 20 lbs of muscle and his core and legs are back to being 100% strength, I could see him getting back to 93 MPH on the fastball and his curve getting its bite back ? is it completely unrealistic to project 17-10, 3.6 ERA, 180 K's 20 QS ? because honestly i don't see that coming from Gray, Wood, Teheran or any SP drafted after Hamels. All those guys lost a ton of offensive support. The optimistic side is that Verlander went into last year recovering from core muscle surgery, so he was not healthy like he is this year. The other side though is he has lost velocity for a few years in a row now and has not adjusted his style of pitching to make up for the fact he can't rear back and throw the ball past a hitter when he needs to. Unless he learns to pitch instead of just throw, which is a concern this late in a career, he will have trouble again. I think he can get back under 4.00 if he is healthy, but I would expect more along the lines of 14-10, 3.85 ERA. Quality starts will be tough to predict. He has always been a guy who goes 6+ every start, but his pitch counts are running up faster and faster as hitters foul off and put more pitches in play. Funny thing is...Phil Hughes may end up being better than all of these guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lambert58 56 Posted March 12, 2015 Also like Santana of the twins. If I hadn't traded up for Tulowitzki I was probably going SP and trading down to take the SS/OF with speed late. I was torn between Dickerson and Santana. Again, strong production with around 400 AB'S. I liked that he has the SS/OF option. My issue was I don't see him starting at SS over Peralta and I don't see him starting in the OF over Heyward, McCutchen, or Beltran. I have Wong, Dozier & Pujols, Matt Adams for a Utilitly player so he wouldn't start there either. I really looked hard at thim though. I just felt Dickerson makes my every day lineup stronger if he can continue his production. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 12, 2015 Santana is due for major regression though. BABIP over .400, super low walk rate, and now that he is back at shortstop you can expect the errors to pile up (36 at SS in the minors in 2013). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 12, 2015 The optimistic side is that Verlander went into last year recovering from core muscle surgery, so he was not healthy like he is this year. The other side though is he has lost velocity for a few years in a row now and has not adjusted his style of pitching to make up for the fact he can't rear back and throw the ball past a hitter when he needs to. Unless he learns to pitch instead of just throw, which is a concern this late in a career, he will have trouble again. I think he can get back under 4.00 if he is healthy, but I would expect more along the lines of 14-10, 3.85 ERA. Quality starts will be tough to predict. He has always been a guy who goes 6+ every start, but his pitch counts are running up faster and faster as hitters foul off and put more pitches in play. Funny thing is...Phil Hughes may end up being better than all of these guys. Tanaka too. I mean, if his elbow presents no issues, he will be very good again, i think. While I agree that JV needs to make some adjustments to compensate for lost velocity, I would say he has known how to pitch not just "throw" for years now. You don't win a Cy Young and MVP as a thrower. He isn't and hasn't been like some of the guys out there relying strictly on his fastball. His velocity has certainly been in decline for a few years and won't ever see 95 MPH again but part of me believe he can get back to 93+ if his core muscle issues were really an issue last year (his weight loss is one reason I tend to believe it). I mean his FB velocity was still over 92 i believe. So we either have to chalk that up to age or to coming off January surgery and never feeling "right" all season. Pitchers don't die at 32 years old, however verlander has a lot of pitches on that arm, especially when you add in playoff runs. It could wind up being a wasted pick in a sense but i'll go ahead and say I feel comfortable taking a shot on him at that point. 14 wins just seems too low to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 13, 2015 Here are the numbers that point to my argument about "pitching" vs "throwing". 2011 Cy Young yearBA vs fastball - .220 BA vs changeup - .131 2012 Cy Young runner-up BA vs fastball - .238 BA vs changeup - .244 2013 BA vs fastball - .278 BA vs changeup - .270 2014 BA vs fastball - .283 BA vs changeup - .278 Line drive % against his fastball has risen from 17.8% in 2011 to 25.1% in 2013 and 28% in 2014. The swinging strike rate on his changeup peaked at 18.8% in 2011, then dropped to 7.8% in 2014. So how much of this can he get back? That is what will determine how much he can rebound. To this point, he has chosen not to get 'crafty' with regards to pitch location like other aging power pitchers have, so I don't know if he will ever reinvent himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 13, 2015 i dont disagree that he may never reinvent himself but i also dont see how those stats point to him being a thrower. maybe we are just having different definitions of "thrower"... to me "throwers" are younger players who come into the majors and try to get by on simply throwing their fastball by people with little to no command and only using 2 pitches. Verlander never struck me as a "thrower" because although he is certainly a power pitcher he threw his fastball 56% of the time last year, his slider 15%, his curve almost 16% and his change about 13%... where as a guy like my very own chris archer who has a near 95mph FB and threw it 66% of the time, a slider 29% and a changeup 5%. more or less relying on 2 pitches. i guess my point being Verlander has mixed in 4 pitches and had all of them at 13% of higher for a number of years. he doesnt strike me as a thrower who needs to completely reinvent himself. but i still agree hes going to have to rely more on overall pitch location at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmh6476 757 Posted March 13, 2015 Justin verlander prince fielder joakim soria Miguel Cabrera et al can suck it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 13, 2015 rather than start a new thread ill say my early favorite teams are as follows Miami - Landed Hanley, had Anibal, and Miggy exclusive not to mention Mr. Stanton, pulled off a very nice trade to add one of the top 1B in Edwin Encarnacion... bad news already with Chris Sale but if it turns out to be nothing too lingering and Jose Fernandez comes back to form, plus all that young talent (Yelich, Ozuna, Alvarez). This was my original team the first year I did this league before I switched to Tampa. I really like what he has here. St. Louis - I thought the trade in the Supp was great for Lambert. More or less replaced Wainright with Cueto, upgraded Holiday to MVP candidate McCutchen and picked up an extra 2nd round pick to add some depth in Dickerson. Landed his top 4 targets during the regular draft and benefited a bit with exclusives without having to deal with Atlanta. Boston - I questioned trading back rather than taking Tulo but it turned out to be the right move as Hamels fell further than I expected. Also set up perfectly with all the falling talent in the outfield. Personally, I would have taken Braun but no denying Car-Go's upside. This is in addition to an already solid team highlighted by landing Adrian Gonzalez and one of the bigger steals in Mark Melancon in round 5. missing out on Lester was softened with the Hamels get. Exclusives of Sandoval, Ellsbury and Cespedes were nice to go along with the usual, yet aging Boston suspects (Ortiz, Pedroia). Starting pitching overall might be a little shaky. Nationals don't count. Sleeper - Houston - bank on it. Robertson was the best closer drafted in the supp in terms of value. Filled the gaping hole at 3B with Frazier. Houston as a whole has a lot of young talent (Altuve, Springer, Kuechel, Castro, etc) and added exclusives like Gattis. Pence should only miss a month? Only issue will be SP's. no "worst" teams to be found. I think everyone did a pretty damn good job maximizing their teams potential in this unique format. If all owners stay active, I think this will be the most competitive season in my 4 years here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burt 43 Posted March 13, 2015 I seriously considered Votto with my last pick but with the only catcher on my roster barely being a .200 hitter, I had to address that instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Notkendrick5 0 Posted March 13, 2015 The crappy this with Sale was that they'll miss a few starts but with how many innings Bum threw last year it was my only choice. Plus that K/IP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 13, 2015 The crappy this with Sale was that they'll miss a few starts but with how many innings Bum threw last year it was my only choice. Plus that K/IP i liked Cueto a tad above the available starters. but i think the foot injury news broke like literally right after you drafted him, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 13, 2015 i liked Cueto a tad above the available starters. but i think the foot injury news broke like literally right after you drafted him, no? Sale has had the broken foot over a week. He shouldn't miss much time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Notkendrick5 0 Posted March 13, 2015 I knew about the injury but I still valued him over the rest, they said he shouldn't miss much time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 13, 2015 The optimistic side is that Verlander went into last year recovering from core muscle surgery, so he was not healthy like he is this year. The other side though is he has lost velocity for a few years in a row now and has not adjusted his style of pitching to make up for the fact he can't rear back and throw the ball past a hitter when he needs to. Unless he learns to pitch instead of just throw, which is a concern this late in a career, he will have trouble again. I think he can get back under 4.00 if he is healthy, but I would expect more along the lines of 14-10, 3.85 ERA. Quality starts will be tough to predict. He has always been a guy who goes 6+ every start, but his pitch counts are running up faster and faster as hitters foul off and put more pitches in play. Funny thing is...Phil Hughes may end up being better than all of these guys. i found this write up encouraging. not really defending my pick but since you're a Tiger fan and im a JV fan. http://m.tigers.mlb.com/news/article/112458778/efficiency-not-velocity-theme-of-justin-verlanders-second-start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted March 14, 2015 That would be nice. Of course, too little too late for the Tigers' title hopes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted March 16, 2015 injuries just piling up. no pitching staff is safe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
