Leave it to ESPN to fock up a good idea

[Strike 3,975]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Stewart won 4 championships in 4 years, so yeah, she did what Kareem did in winning each year that she was eligible.  How can you say that the men's game was competitive and at the same time said that one guy made a shot illegal?  If he was that good that they had to change the rules, then apparently the level of competition wasn't that great.

This is a specious argument.  Every once in a while a person comes along who excels above their peers, despite how competent/good his peers might be.  Einstein, Jordan, etc.....Even the women you mention excelled against their peers.  Unfortunately, if they'd had to play against the men they're being put in brackets against for this contest they would have had their butts handed to them.

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Whether the game is played at a much higher level or not, a players accomplishments are equal in the sense that they played against their peers.  Men didn't play against women or the other way around.  Stewart and Taurasi were women playing against women.

We're talking greatest player ever.  If you're going to put them in the same bracket they should compete against each other.  But you and I both know that none of the women could play with most of the men.  You make a great argument for having separate men's and women's brackets though, so we could, you know judge them against their peers.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

This is a specious argument.  Every once in a while a person comes along who excels above their peers, despite how competent/good his peers might be.  Einstein, Jordan, etc.....Even the women you mention excelled against their peers.  Unfortunately, if they'd had to play against the men they're being put in brackets against for this contest they would have had their butts handed to them.

We're talking greatest player ever.  If you're going to put them in the same bracket they should compete against each other.  But you and I both know that none of the women could play with most of the men.  You make a great argument for having separate men's and women's brackets though, so we could, you know judge them against their peers.

I agree, and said it before, the women should not be in this bracket.  My only argument was that if you're putting the two together, then you can only compare their accomplishments.  Stewart's accomplishments are greater than any man's, period.  No one won more championships.  No one won more games.  No one won more awards.  Taurasi's is up there as well, maybe on par with one or two men.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

You make a great argument for having separate men's and women's brackets though, so we could, you know judge them against their peers.

They should have done this, what being in the same bracket does is demean women because they literally have no chance to win. Again the do-gooders end up being the sexist and racist ones. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

6 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

They should have done this, what being in the same bracket does is demean women because they literally have no chance to win. Again the do-gooders end up being the sexist and racist ones. 

I agree that they wouldn't, but I mentioned this before, I think ESPN will pad the ballot box in favor of some of the top tier women to keep them advancing.  If you noticed, the top tier women are seeded against men where you question why they're even participants.  

For example, Breanna Stewart, legitimately the most decorated basketball player vs Austin Carr, who had a couple big games one season, in the first match-up.  Swoops vs Reddick.  Swoops was dominating for her whole career... Reddick was just good at shooting 3 pointers.  Holdsclaw vs a kid who played 1 season.  Taurasi vs Chris Jackson.

[posty 2,296]

Have any results been posted?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

42 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I agree that they wouldn't, but I mentioned this before, I think ESPN will pad the ballot box in favor of some of the top tier women to keep them advancing.  If you noticed, the top tier women are seeded against men where you question why they're even participants.  

For example, Breanna Stewart, legitimately the most decorated basketball player vs Austin Carr, who had a couple big games one season, in the first match-up.  Swoops vs Reddick.  Swoops was dominating for her whole career... Reddick was just good at shooting 3 pointers.  Holdsclaw vs a kid who played 1 season.  Taurasi vs Chris Jackson.

The whole thing is just dumb. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

41 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

The whole thing is just dumb. 

I agree.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 hour ago, posty said:

Have any results been posted?

Looks like you need Twitter to vote.  I don't have Twitter, so I evidently won't be participating.  It looks like the first round winners were...

WEST

• Kareem (1) over Seimone Augustus (16)
• Shaq (9) over Sue Bird (8)
• Hansbrough (5) over Lisa Leslie (12)
• Anthony Davis (4) over Jerry West (13)
• Kemba Walker (6) over Marcus Camby (11)
• Oscar Robertson (3) over Bill Bradley (14)
• Olajuwon (7) over Wade (10)
• Taurasi (2) over Chris Jackson (15)

EAST

• Breanna Stewart (1) over Austin Carr (16)
• Iverson (9) over Hurley (8)
• Battier (12) over Bias (5)
• Maravich (13) over Sampson (4)
• Reddick (11) over Swoops (6)
• Larry Bird (3) over Dawn Staley (14)
• Grant Hill (7) over Rebecca Lobo (10)
• Bill Russell (2) over Doug McDermott (15)

SOUTH

• Christian Laettner (1) over Jimmer Fredette (16)
• Zion Williamson (9) over Danny Manning (8)
• Carmelo Anthony (5) over Larry Johnson (12)
• Trae Young (13) over Chamique Holdsclaw (4)
• Chris Mullin (6) over Tamika Catchings (11)
• Magic (3) over Glen Rice (14)
• Kevin Durant (10) over Candice Parker (7)
• Patrick Ewing (2) over Jerry Lucas (15)

MIDWEST

• Walton (1) over Alford (16)
• Wilt (8) over Sabrina Ionescu (9)
• Stephen Curry (12) over Maya Moore (5)
• David Thompson (4) over Brittney Griner (13)
• David Robinson (11) over Jay Williams (6)
• Chris Webber (14) over Cheryl Miller (3)
• Duncan (10) over Hayes (7)
• Jordan (2) over Lieberman (15)

Diana Taurasi and Breanna Stewart (bold/italics), are the only 2 ladies to advance.  If I were a gambling man, I'd bet on Iverson over Stewart (which is absurd), in the second round and Olajuwon over Taurasi (which is nuts too). 

Of the 14 ladies that lost (italics), in the first round, of which, 6 were the higher seed.

[posty 2,296]

I guess being the only player in NCAA history to have 2,000+ points, 1,000+ rebounds and 1,000+ assists isn't good enough to win because that person is female...

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 minute ago, posty said:

I guess being the only player in NCAA history to have 2,000+ points, 1,000+ rebounds and 1,000+ assists isn't good enough to win because that person is female...

Does that surprise you?

[posty 2,296]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Does that surprise you?

Nope...

[supermike80 1,285]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I agree, and said it before, the women should not be in this bracket.  My only argument was that if you're putting the two together, then you can only compare their accomplishments.  Stewart's accomplishments are greater than any man's, period.  No one won more championships.  No one won more games.  No one won more awards.  Taurasi's is up there as well, maybe on par with one or two men.

Well she better win greatest of all time in this bracket or this entire thing is just-------stupid

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

21 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well she better win greatest of all time in this bracket or this entire thing is just-------stupid

It's stupid regardless.

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I couldnt pick Stewart out of a lineup 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

This will come as no shock to anyone, but Dwayne Wade beat Diana Taurasi.

Will the last woman (Breanna Stewart), beat Iverson?  My money says no.  ESPN is a bunch of idiots.

[posty 2,296]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/playerbracket-eastwest/college-basketball-greatest-all-bracket-round-32-east-west-breakdowns

At least some of the ESPN crew knows what they are talking about even though the voters don't...

* I can't say it was a big surprise, because I was concerned about how all the women's players would do in a format like this. But I was disappointed that Sheryl Swoopes got just 27.2% of the vote against JJ Redick. He was national player of the year in 2006, and played for a marquee program at Duke. And he's still playing in the NBA. But Swoopes nearly single-handedly gave Texas Tech its only NCAA title during an NCAA tournament run in which she averaged 34.5 points per game, including 47 in the championship game, which remains the record. Her entire 1993 postseason -- which also included 53 points in the Southwest Conference tournament final -- is still the greatest I've seen in more than three decades covering women's basketball. And while this is about measuring college careers, Swoopes went on to be a pillar of the Houston Comets dynasty that won four championships in the launch of the WNBA. Plus, she won three Olympic gold medals and is in the Naismith Hall of Fame.

* We'll see if Allen Iverson's immense popularity carries him over the player I think should be unbeatable in a competition like this: Breanna Stewart. You can't do better than Stewie did in the NCAA tournament, with four titles and four Most Outstanding Player awards. By the way, she's already won an WNBA title, a WNBA MVP and an Olympic gold medal before the age of 26. From the standpoint of championships, there's simply no comparison. But Iverson was a dynamic player whose game and personality appealed to a lot of people, and still do long after his career has been over. We'll find out whether that's the most important thing in this voting. It was against Bobby Hurley in the first round, despite Hurley being part of two national championship teams.

[Strike 3,975]

39 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

This will come as no shock to anyone, but Dwayne Wade beat Diana Taurasi.

Will the last woman (Breanna Stewart), beat Iverson?  My money says no.  ESPN is a bunch of idiots.

Yeah, that Dwayne Wade sucks!!!

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yeah, that Dwayne Wade sucks!!!

Why are you assuming that I think he sucks?  According to ESPN, the objective is to measure the players' careers.  Can you honestly tell me that Wade has a better resume than Taurasi?

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

9 minutes ago, posty said:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/playerbracket-eastwest/college-basketball-greatest-all-bracket-round-32-east-west-breakdowns

At least some of the ESPN crew knows what they are talking about even though the voters don't...

* We'll see if Allen Iverson's immense popularity carries him over the player I think should be unbeatable in a competition like this: Breanna Stewart. You can't do better than Stewie did in the NCAA tournament, with four titles and four Most Outstanding Player awards. By the way, she's already won an WNBA title, a WNBA MVP and an Olympic gold medal before the age of 26. From the standpoint of championships, there's simply no comparison. But Iverson was a dynamic player whose game and personality appealed to a lot of people, and still do long after his career has been over. We'll find out whether that's the most important thing in this voting. It was against Bobby Hurley in the first round, despite Hurley being part of two national championship teams.

Well, we all knew what the ESPN crew thinks... that said, this was exactly my point in this thread.  There's literally no one with a better resume than Stewart.

[Strike 3,975]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Why are you assuming that I think he sucks?  According to ESPN, the objective is to measure the players' careers.  Can you honestly tell me that Wade has a better resume than Taurasi?

You're acting like this is a serious conversation.  It's not.  I thought we had all already agreed that men shouldn't be compared to women.  There is no comparison.  Somehow you want to compare a woman's career, played against women, to a man's career played against men.  I mean, how do you think Dwayne Wade would have done in college had he swapped places with Diana Taurasi?  Let me put it this way.  I would vote for Mark Madsen over Diana Taurasi in a bracket that includes both. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

You're acting like this is a serious conversation.

It's because you're reading it with a perceived (and incorrect), demeanor.  My comments are pointing out why ESPN sucks.

[posty 2,296]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Well, we all knew what the ESPN crew thinks... that said, this was exactly my point in this thread.  There's literally no one with a better resume than Stewart.

No argument here...  I just wish I watched more of her when she was playing...  

Really got into watching girls basketball this year (was watching a family friend play her senior year in high school)...  She is continuing her career in the Colonial Athletic conference...

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

19 minutes ago, posty said:

No argument here...  I just wish I watched more of her when she was playing...  

Really got into watching girls basketball this year (was watching a family friend play her senior year in high school)...  She is continuing her career in the Colonial Athletic conference...

Stewart was dominating.  Since the 90's with Rebecca Lobo, UConn has seemed to always have one of the country's top 3 players.

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:23 PM, TBayXXXVII said:

Looks like you need Twitter to vote.  I don't have Twitter, so I evidently won't be participating.  It looks like the first round winners were...

WEST

• Kareem (1) over Seimone Augustus (16)
• Shaq (9) over Sue Bird (8)
• Hansbrough (5) over Lisa Leslie (12)
• Anthony Davis (4) over Jerry West (13)
• Kemba Walker (6) over Marcus Camby (11)
• Oscar Robertson (3) over Bill Bradley (14)
• Olajuwon (7) over Wade (10)
• Taurasi (2) over Chris Jackson (15)

EAST

• Breanna Stewart (1) over Austin Carr (16)
• Iverson (9) over Hurley (8)
• Battier (12) over Bias (5)
• Maravich (13) over Sampson (4)
• Reddick (11) over Swoops (6)
• Larry Bird (3) over Dawn Staley (14)
• Grant Hill (7) over Rebecca Lobo (10)
• Bill Russell (2) over Doug McDermott (15)

SOUTH

• Christian Laettner (1) over Jimmer Fredette (16)
• Zion Williamson (9) over Danny Manning (8)
• Carmelo Anthony (5) over Larry Johnson (12)
• Trae Young (13) over Chamique Holdsclaw (4)
• Chris Mullin (6) over Tamika Catchings (11)
• Magic (3) over Glen Rice (14)
• Kevin Durant (10) over Candice Parker (7)
• Patrick Ewing (2) over Jerry Lucas (15)

MIDWEST

• Walton (1) over Alford (16)
• Wilt (8) over Sabrina Ionescu (9)
• Stephen Curry (12) over Maya Moore (5)
• David Thompson (4) over Brittney Griner (13)
• David Robinson (11) over Jay Williams (6)
• Chris Webber (14) over Cheryl Miller (3)
• Duncan (10) over Hayes (7)
• Jordan (2) over Lieberman (15)

Diana Taurasi and Breanna Stewart (bold/italics), are the only 2 ladies to advance.  If I were a gambling man, I'd bet on Iverson over Stewart (which is absurd), in the second round and Olajuwon over Taurasi (which is nuts too). 

Of the 14 ladies that lost (italics), in the first round, of which, 6 were the higher seed.

I would have Grant Hill much higher---probably no lower than a 3.   And Len Bias is a 5, while Maravich is a 13.  WTF!!!!

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

I would have Grant Hill much higher---probably no lower than a 3.   And Len Bias is a 5, while Maravich is a 13.  WTF!!!!

I was shocked at Hansborough being a 5 and Shaq a 9.  Battier was a 12, but Iverson a 9?  I mean, I know Iverson was explosive and had splash, but Battier's career was more accomplished.  I don't get the Len Bias either.

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I was shocked at Hansborough being a 5 and Shaq a 9.  Battier was a 12, but Iverson a 9?  I mean, I know Iverson was explosive and had splash, but Battier's career was more accomplished.  I don't get the Len Bias either.

I remember Shaq in college...it was like watching a beast playing against Ooompa Loompa's.  

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I had decided to look at some clips on youtube of womens basketball.  There are some great highlights and clips of how bad the wnba sucks.  There was one where espn had Griner out on an empty floor and want her to dunk for them. She goes on to miss a 2 hander and then adjusts her shoes then misses a 1 hander.  It was hilarious.  These girls are so bad.  Not sure how they think they should make more money.  Thr NBA has done them a favor up until this point.