New Texas rule let's social workers turn away clients who are LGBTQ or have a disability

[iam90sbaby 2,720]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

No, you didn't. You said:

You didn't say anything about why you think that homosexuality should be unacceptable. You just made a vague bigoted statement, then called me a bigot just because. I believe that no one should be discriminated against due to factors that they themselves have absolutely no control over, like skin color or sexual orientation. You do. But you're not telling me why.

Well... It's a mental disorder, destroys the traditional family dynamic and is a gateway to transgenderism. If I have to explain why transgenderism is bad you're not worth having a conversation with about the subject.

[iam90sbaby 2,720]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

Contrary to whatever institutions you depend on for your information, there absolutely WERE peaceful protests. Believe it or not, Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis are all still large, functioning cities that have not been razed to the ground by Antifa. Small businesses are still operating, people go to work, raise their kids, rush hour traffic still sucks, people are still voting democratic. Hundreds of thousands of people were out demonstrating in the streets all over the country, in hundreds of towns, without violence or destruction.  They were exercising the constitutional rights that Trumpers keep saying they support, though you do nothing but b!tch about it when they do. 

Funny that you can call out people for having such little awareness, when you have none regarding the reasons behind the social unrest and the fight against discrimination. Just keep hiding out in your little community full of white christian conservatives complaining about the horrible big leftist cities without attempting to understand any of what's really going on. Seems to be serving you well.

You're trolling no one's that dumb 

[iam90sbaby 2,720]

10 hours ago, vomit said:

Child hormones?  I think children have had hormones for a long time.  I also don't see how transgenderism has destroyed our country.  You're talking about .01% of the population here.

What is destroying our country is a lack of respect for each other, hatred towards each other, lack of decency.  Homersexuality is probably 8,923 on the list of problems we have.

I don't think it should be illegal I just don't think they should be allowed to marry or adopt.

[Fnord 2,443]

35 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Well... It's a mental disorder, destroys the traditional family dynamic and is a gateway to transgenderism. If I have to explain why transgenderism is bad you're not worth having a conversation with about the subject.

According to the DMS 5, which is literally THE book on psychological disorders, homosexuality is not a disorder. Transgenderism and homosexuality are not the same thing, one is not a 'gateway' for the other. Your OPINIONS are at best uninformed. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,872]

Anyone who has ever dealt with trannies know it’s a mental health issue and they should get help for it.  But they shouldn’t get special consideration or have the government paying for a sex change operation. As a matter of fact, sex change operations should be outlawed. 

[Fnord 2,443]

Suck it bigots!

Ruling Reversed.

Whadda ya know, the social workers thought this rule was bullsh!t. Texas governor Abbot just decided this without any input from the people who actually do the work. What a pig. 

 

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

Just now, Fnord said:

Suck it bigots!

Ruling Reversed.

Whadda ya know, the social workers thought this rule was bullsh!t. Texas governor Abbot just decided this without any input from the people who actually do the work. What a pig. 

 

I said it would be reversed in my initial post and told you it was fear mongering bs. I don't agree with it but I knew it would be reversed. Just own that a black social worker will have to help some KKK couple and nothing they can do about it. That is the law. Congrats. I'm sure that black social worker will salute you.

[Fnord 2,443]

1 minute ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

I said it would be reversed in my initial post and told you it was fear mongering bs. I don't agree with it but I knew it would be reversed. Just own that a black social worker will have to help some KKK couple and nothing they can do about it. That is the law. Congrats. I'm sure that black social worker will salute you.

Boo F'in Hoo. Be a goddam professional and do your job. I've worked for and with a lot of people I find reprehensible. I shut up and got the job done. Also, your example is ridiculous. You really think the social worker in your little scenario is gonna have a bigger problem with that situation than the white trash POS KKK members? Take your strawman and use it to line your pigpen.

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

14 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Boo F'in Hoo. Be a goddam professional and do your job. I've worked for and with a lot of people I find reprehensible. I shut up and got the job done. Also, your example is ridiculous. You really think the social worker in your little scenario is gonna have a bigger problem with that situation than the white trash POS KKK members? Take your strawman and use it to line your pigpen.

I do according to the media. Massive group of white nationalists. Black social workers are now forced to help this massive population of racists and nothing they can do about it. Unless of course it's not that large and the media is lying. It sounds like you are saying this scenario can not possibly ever happen and not a big deal. and if it does black people just need to get tough skin when being called a phucking n___er. Get out of here you phucking n___er...blah blah..get off my property before I put a noose on you....meh.

Can't have it both ways. The law is suppose to protect everyone on both sides. You just want gays protected. Not blacks dealing with white racists. Look in the mirror. Put on black face and call yourself a phucking n___er real loud. Test it out if you can truly handle it. See how it feels. 

 

[jerryskids 6,988]

Thought this was interesting and relevant.  Fnord must be correct because... well, alternative viewpoints are censored.  Click in to follow the rabbit hole.

[Fnord 2,443]

5 minutes ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

I do according to the media. Massive group of white nationalists. Black social workers are now forced to help this massive population of racists and nothing they can do about it. Unless of course it's not that large and the media is lying. It sounds like you are saying this scenario can not possibly ever happen and not a big deal. and if it does black people just need to get tough skin when being called a phucking n___er. Get out of here you phucking n___er...blah blah..get off my property before I put a noose on you....meh.

Can't have it both ways. The law is suppose to protect everyone on both sides. You just want gays protected. Not blacks dealing with white racists.

 

I do want everyone protected. For things they have no control over. Bigotry is a choice, not a trait you're born with. Don't you think there's a difference there?

[Fnord 2,443]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Thought this was interesting and relevant.  Fnord must be correct because... well, alternative viewpoints are censored.  Click in to follow the rabbit hole.

Yeah man, I have never said or hinted that I support gender transition in teens. There are lots of laws on the books that restrict activities by age that I have no problem with. But for legal adults, WTF do I care? And why should anyone else? Follow your bliss and all that...

[jerryskids 6,988]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

Yeah man, I have never said or hinted that I support gender transition in teens. There are lots of laws on the books that restrict activities by age that I have no problem with. But for legal adults, WTF do I care? And why should anyone else? Follow your bliss and all that...

But you said in this thread that there is absolutely nothing people can do about being trans, which implies a (extremely incorrect) belief that transgender is 100% physiological.  And if so, why would you deny that of teens?  It can never change, right?  

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I do want everyone protected. For things they have no control over. Bigotry is a choice, not a trait you're born with. Don't you think there's a difference there?

I will tell you what I think. If someone is not comfortable in social work doing something there are scenarios where they are comfortable. Maybe just put them in those scenarios. Others have a higher threshold. Assign them to those and increase their pay for dealing with it. I know I don't want to deal with racists and am probably not the best to deal with gays. I'm straight as an arrow. No idea what issues they are dealing with and could not possibly relate to them. I don't hate them but just know someone gay would be way better. 

 

[Gladiators 2,031]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

Suck it bigots!

Ruling Reversed.

Whadda ya know, the social workers thought this rule was bullsh!t. Texas governor Abbot just decided this without any input from the people who actually do the work. What a pig. 

 

Congrats to you and the rest of the tranny community! You go it!

[Fnord 2,443]

54 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

But you said in this thread that there is absolutely nothing people can do about being trans, which implies a (extremely incorrect) belief that transgender is 100% physiological.  And if so, why would you deny that of teens?  It can never change, right?  

Not physiological, no. Psychological? I dunno. It's something they can't help. They are born with it. It's not a 'lifestyle choice.' And I would deny that for teens for the same reasons we don't let 13 year olds drink alcohol, drive cars, vote or serve in the military. Their brains are still developing and they're prone to making rash decisions without thought to long term consequences. 

I'm not telling you to make friends with them or be OK with one of your kids being transgender or go out and protest for their rights. But they're people and they deserve the same respect as anyone else. And the same protections under the law.

[Fnord 2,443]

1 hour ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

I will tell you what I think. If someone is not comfortable in social work doing something there are scenarios where they are comfortable. Maybe just put them in those scenarios. Others have a higher threshold. Assign them to those and increase their pay for dealing with it. I know I don't want to deal with racists and am probably not the best to deal with gays. I'm straight as an arrow. No idea what issues they are dealing with and could not possibly relate to them. I don't hate them but just know someone gay would be way better. 

 

I get it. Thanks for the response. I'm not asking people to be totally OK with it. There is a transgender guy (becoming girl) that works at a grocery store I shop at. Honestly, it's weird. It makes me a bit uncomfortable. But wo cares? I just need to get over myself. He didn't ask for that condition, I guarantee you. (S)he is just a person trying to live their lives. I can't have a problem with that. They're not hurting anyone. And they deserve just as much protection from the law as any other person. In this situation, if a social worker had that big of a problem with it, I would hope that they could ask a supervisor or superior to help them out. Maybe find another social worker that doesn't have a problem with that population. I just think it's really wrong to codify prejudice like that into law.

[iam90sbaby 2,720]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

I get it. Thanks for the response. I'm not asking people to be totally OK with it. There is a transgender guy (becoming girl) that works at a grocery store I shop at. Honestly, it's weird. It makes me a bit uncomfortable. But wo cares? I just need to get over myself. He didn't ask for that condition, I guarantee you. (S)he is just a person trying to live their lives. I can't have a problem with that. They're not hurting anyone. And they deserve just as much protection from the law as any other person. In this situation, if a social worker had that big of a problem with it, I would hope that they could ask a supervisor or superior to help them out. Maybe find another social worker that doesn't have a problem with that population. I just think it's really wrong to codify prejudice like that into law.

I have a pet pterodactyls 

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I get it. Thanks for the response. I'm not asking people to be totally OK with it. There is a transgender guy (becoming girl) that works at a grocery store I shop at. Honestly, it's weird. It makes me a bit uncomfortable. But wo cares? I just need to get over myself. He didn't ask for that condition, I guarantee you. (S)he is just a person trying to live their lives. I can't have a problem with that. They're not hurting anyone. And they deserve just as much protection from the law as any other person. In this situation, if a social worker had that big of a problem with it, I would hope that they could ask a supervisor or superior to help them out. Maybe find another social worker that doesn't have a problem with that population. I just think it's really wrong to codify prejudice like that into law.

You can hope but you remove the hope by passing a law forcing the wrong person into a situation when there is likely someone way better. Like sending an attractive young female social worker into a bad dangerous neighborhood. Do you see how this law could cause serious problems. Like getting someone raped or killed. The law in that situation has now harmed someone.

[jerryskids 6,988]

20 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Not physiological, no. Psychological? I dunno. It's something they can't help. They are born with it. It's not a 'lifestyle choice.' And I would deny that for teens for the same reasons we don't let 13 year olds drink alcohol, drive cars, vote or serve in the military. Their brains are still developing and they're prone to making rash decisions without thought to long term consequences. 

I'm not telling you to make friends with them or be OK with one of your kids being transgender or go out and protest for their rights. But they're people and they deserve the same respect as anyone else. And the same protections under the law.

There are plenty of people who are not born with it, and could stop the behavior.  Transition remorse is a real thing.  Plenty of people have psychological issues which they assign to transgenderism, only to find out afterward that they still have the issues.  This is not to say that there aren’t people with actual physiological (which I use to include genetic and chemical, the latter of which is psychiatric) transgenderism.  And this goes for adults and children.  And all of this goes for homosexuality as well.

That being said, I agree that I don’t care if an adult wants to transition, as long as I don’t pay and health insurance doesn’t pay, as that affects my premiums.  Then I suppose I care, although I haven’t worked thru the math to see if it matters statistically.  What bothers me, for lack of a better word, is ramming down our throats that we not only need to accept it, but embrace it.  Change our words, change our sports competition, for instance.  Now that I breathe through a hole in my neck, there are some things I can’t do.  I was thinking of taking up jiu  jitsu, but that doesn’t seem feasible.  Can’t sing.  Can’t swim.  My daughter has type 1 diabetes, she has restrictions as well.  Can’t be a pilot or commercial driver for instance.  But for some reason, transgenders are supposed to be shielded from any adversity.  Guess what, if you transition to adulthood as a male you are physically superior to most women and you can’t compete with them.  That’s just science, which dems like to embrace except when they don’t.  You might get called a guy even if you are transitioning to a woman; get over it.  JMO.  

[Fnord 2,443]

18 hours ago, jerryskids said:

There are plenty of people who are not born with it, and could stop the behavior.  Transition remorse is a real thing.  Plenty of people have psychological issues which they assign to transgenderism, only to find out afterward that they still have the issues.  This is not to say that there aren’t people with actual physiological (which I use to include genetic and chemical, the latter of which is psychiatric) transgenderism.  And this goes for adults and children.  And all of this goes for homosexuality as well.

That being said, I agree that I don’t care if an adult wants to transition, as long as I don’t pay and health insurance doesn’t pay, as that affects my premiums.  Then I suppose I care, although I haven’t worked thru the math to see if it matters statistically.  What bothers me, for lack of a better word, is ramming down our throats that we not only need to accept it, but embrace it.  Change our words, change our sports competition, for instance.  Now that I breathe through a hole in my neck, there are some things I can’t do.  I was thinking of taking up jiu  jitsu, but that doesn’t seem feasible.  Can’t sing.  Can’t swim.  My daughter has type 1 diabetes, she has restrictions as well.  Can’t be a pilot or commercial driver for instance.  But for some reason, transgenders are supposed to be shielded from any adversity.  Guess what, if you transition to adulthood as a male you are physically superior to most women and you can’t compete with them.  That’s just science, which dems like to embrace except when they don’t.  You might get called a guy even if you are transitioning to a woman; get over it.  JMO.  

If you have any good links to support your first paragraph I'd be interested in looking into that, especially being able to 'stop the behavior' as it relates to homosexuality. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't heard that. I have no doubt that transition remorse is real.

As far as health insurance goes, why should we care? I get the premiums argument, but if an insurer is willing to cover that, then why shouldn't it be taken advantage of by someone wishing to transition? Lots of elective surgeries are covered and people scramble to get them done this time of year because their deductibles are paid. I don't really see much of a difference.

I would argue that people demanding you embrace it have a screw loose, if anyone truly is doing that. Even acceptance is futile. But treating anyone with the respect you expect to be treated with seems like solid ideology. If you can't somehow at least keep your mouth shut about how much you hate it, then expect to be vilified for it. Freedom of speech and all. As far as the athletic stuff goes, I get it, I just don't really care. I guess if my daughter didn't make the track team cuz a girl who used to be a guy took her spot I'd probably be pissed, but I'm not going to waste energy worrying about it. I strongly disagree with you saying people expect them to be shielded from adversity. I mean, can you imagine what they must go through psychologically? I can't. Waking up in the morning would be adversity. 

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. I read through some of your cancer thread but didn't post as I didn't want to seem insincere, since I'm new here and don't have any connections to the GC. You seem like a solid dude that's been dealt a sh!t hand. We disagree about some things but most of that doesn't really matter much. We all gotta try to support each other, especially when things go south. Good luck with everything you're going through. I hope you have a solid support system.

[Fnord 2,443]

19 hours ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

You can hope but you remove the hope by passing a law forcing the wrong person into a situation when there is likely someone way better. Like sending an attractive young female social worker into a bad dangerous neighborhood. Do you see how this law could cause serious problems. Like getting someone raped or killed. The law in that situation has now harmed someone.

I get where you're coming from. Agree to disagree. I appreciate the respectful responses though. Seems like there's a few serious pr!cks in the GC, and while I sort of enjoy slopping around in the mud with them, I'd rather have a decent interaction than an insulting one. Thanks.

[jerryskids 6,988]

34 minutes ago, Fnord said:

If you have any good links to support your first paragraph I'd be interested in looking into that, especially being able to 'stop the behavior' as it relates to homosexuality. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't heard that. I have no doubt that transition remorse is real.

As far as health insurance goes, why should we care? I get the premiums argument, but if an insurer is willing to cover that, then why shouldn't it be taken advantage of by someone wishing to transition? Lots of elective surgeries are covered and people scramble to get them done this time of year because their deductibles are paid. I don't really see much of a difference.

I would argue that people demanding you embrace it have a screw loose, if anyone truly is doing that. Even acceptance is futile. But treating anyone with the respect you expect to be treated with seems like solid ideology. If you can't somehow at least keep your mouth shut about how much you hate it, then expect to be vilified for it. Freedom of speech and all. As far as the athletic stuff goes, I get it, I just don't really care. I guess if my daughter didn't make the track team cuz a girl who used to be a guy took her spot I'd probably be pissed, but I'm not going to waste energy worrying about it. I strongly disagree with you saying people expect them to be shielded from adversity. I mean, can you imagine what they must go through psychologically? I can't. Waking up in the morning would be adversity. 

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. I read through some of your cancer thread but didn't post as I didn't want to seem insincere, since I'm new here and don't have any connections to the GC. You seem like a solid dude that's been dealt a sh!t hand. We disagree about some things but most of that doesn't really matter much. We all gotta try to support each other, especially when things go south. Good luck with everything you're going through. I hope you have a solid support system.

You can google “transgender remorse” and see various articles; the first one I saw, from USA Today, is a good example:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/11/transgender-debate-transitioning-sex-gender-column/1894076002/

I also googled “homosexuality nature vs nurture” and this seems like the most referenced medical article:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21053405/

Quote

Conclusions: The JSM's readers should recognize that there are several biological factors in MH. However, these findings do not seem to be able to explain all cases of homosexuality. Some others may be due to particular environmental factors. The issue is complicated and multifactorial, suggesting that further research should be undertaken to produce the final answer to the question raised in this Controversy section.

I treat everyone with respect regardless.  I know and have known several transgenders and refer to them by their preferred names and pronouns.  I know a ton of gay people, largely women through my past involvement in taekwondo (a martial art attracts gay women, seems like a caricature but it is true), plus several cousins, coworkers, etc.  

The “embrace” part is real; to deny it is to deny reality in today’s culture.  We can agree to disagree I guess, but I don’t see how you can argue otherwise.

Thanks for the kind words on my situation.  I am fortunate to have an extremely loving and supportive wife and family.  

[Bier Meister 1,741]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

 I am fortunate to have an extremely loving and supportive wife and family.  

We all are Jerry.

[jerryskids 6,988]

4 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

We all are Jerry.

I know you’ve all had my wife; are you saying the kids are yours as well?  That would explain why they said words like “charcuterie” at a young age.  

[Fnord 2,443]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:42 PM, jerryskids said:

You can google “transgender remorse” and see various articles; the first one I saw, from USA Today, is a good example:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/11/transgender-debate-transitioning-sex-gender-column/1894076002/

I also googled “homosexuality nature vs nurture” and this seems like the most referenced medical article:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21053405/

I treat everyone with respect regardless.  I know and have known several transgenders and refer to them by their preferred names and pronouns.  I know a ton of gay people, largely women through my past involvement in taekwondo (a martial art attracts gay women, seems like a caricature but it is true), plus several cousins, coworkers, etc.  

The “embrace” part is real; to deny it is to deny reality in today’s culture.  We can agree to disagree I guess, but I don’t see how you can argue otherwise.

Thanks for the kind words on my situation.  I am fortunate to have an extremely loving and supportive wife and family.  

Thanks for the links. I read that as biological factors may not explain every case of homosexuality, but they probably explain most of them. I'm sure there is a small minority that identify as homosexual that may be bi- or pan-sexual, or that 'acquired' their homosexuality due to outside factors (childhood sexual assault, for one). Regardless, my opinion that they should be treated respectfully and be protected from discrimination the same as other minorities stands. 

Interesting point about TKD, my son is in it and there are a couple of lesbians in the group. Anecdotally, my wife and I have noticed that the overwhelming majority of lesbians that we've ever spent much time with had a history of sexual abuse by men in their childhoods. This does not seem to be the case among gay men.

And the embracing thing- maybe you're right, maybe not. I can see how people that inherently are uncomfortable around or prejudiced against LGBTQ folks might feel as if the PC po-po are freaking out and demanding these things of them. Largely I think that's hyperbolic, but it really sucks that it has to be that way. It just doesn't compute for me that people need to act that way on either side of the argument. One of the many problems we have with societal and political discourse in this country right now.

 

[jerryskids 6,988]

11 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Thanks for the links. I read that as biological factors may not explain every case of homosexuality, but they probably explain most of them. I'm sure there is a small minority that identify as homosexual that may be bi- or pan-sexual, or that 'acquired' their homosexuality due to outside factors (childhood sexual assault, for one). Regardless, my opinion that they should be treated respectfully and be protected from discrimination the same as other minorities stands. 

Interesting point about TKD, my son is in it and there are a couple of lesbians in the group. Anecdotally, my wife and I have noticed that the overwhelming majority of lesbians that we've ever spent much time with had a history of sexual abuse by men in their childhoods. This does not seem to be the case among gay men.

And the embracing thing- maybe you're right, maybe not. I can see how people that inherently are uncomfortable around or prejudiced against LGBTQ folks might feel as if the PC po-po are freaking out and demanding these things of them. Largely I think that's hyperbolic, but it really sucks that it has to be that way. It just doesn't compute for me that people need to act that way on either side of the argument. One of the many problems we have with societal and political discourse in this country right now.

 

Odd that in one paragraph you state that there may be a small percentage of homosexuals who are behaviorally-influenced, but in the next paragraph your anecdotal evidence is that most are that way.  I don’t know the percentages and like I said I don’t particularly care, my point was to refute your claim that they could do nothing about their behavior.  In your examples those women could seek counseling to address their underlying issues, and IMO have a good chance of being the better for it.

Which reminds me of a thought experiment I did here once long ago when we had a... more rounded posting base.  I asked the question:  if somebody developed a pill which would make a gay person straight, would some gay people take it?  I suspect that quite a few would.  But IIRC, I was told by some that I was homophobic and/or that there was nothing wrong with being gay so they didn’t need to be “fixed.”  I believe that many gay people would like to be “fixed.”  But we can’t have that conversation because it is instantly shut down by the SJW mindset.  I’m confident that the same would be true for trans folks, probably more so.