does zach wilsons/jets give you 2020 joe burrow/cincy vibes?

[weepaws 2,475]

I liked the yes or no response better. 

I say no.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,132]

19 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

the source isnt just wilson...if you dig you can find several stories written about it where it was known that tom obrien wanted wilson to commit to spring football and wilson didnt want to and thats what led to his departure...wilson was a 3 year starter prior to that....lol...any way you slice it i think wilson won that battle

This source doesn't seem to agree.  Neither does this one.

I'm sure that we'll never know the truth.  But I will say this, the optics support O'Brien.  By that I mean, Wilson regressed from 2009 to 2010.  Wilson chose to play baseball instead of Spring Football.  Fine.  I don't have a problem with that.  Mike Glennon in 2011 had a better season (his first year starting), than Wilson in any of his 3 seasons.  That tells me the situation went down something like this...

O'Brien: Russell, we need you here.  Last year you took a step back.  We need to see you take that step forward.

Wilson: No, I'm playing baseball.

O'Brien:  If that's the case, we liked what we saw with Mike, we're going to go with him next year.

Wilson: Fine, I'm leaving.

 

From what I've read and what was resulted, NC State thought that the team was better off with Glennon in 2011 than Wilson and that's why they went with him.

 

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

This source doesn't seem to agree.  Neither does this one.

I'm sure that we'll never know the truth.  But I will say this, the optics support O'Brien.  By that I mean, Wilson regressed from 2009 to 2010.  Wilson chose to play baseball instead of Spring Football.  Fine.  I don't have a problem with that.  Mike Glennon in 2011 had a better season (his first year starting), than Wilson in any of his 3 seasons.  That tells me the situation went down something like this...

O'Brien: Russell, we need you here.  Last year you took a step back.  We need to see you take that step forward.

Wilson: No, I'm playing baseball.

O'Brien:  If that's the case, we liked what we saw with Mike, we're going to go with him next year.

Wilson: Fine, I'm leaving.

 

From what I've read and what was resulted, NC State thought that the team was better off with Glennon in 2011 than Wilson and that's why they went with him.

 

they thought the team was better off with a guy who was going to be there through spring practices....which was glennon and wilson wasnt going to be....thats what i understand...either way....glennon has accomplished nothing.....its understandable....you want a guy there building chemistry with the guys and perfecting the offense.....but understand this which i think is pretty simple...if wilson had done what obrien wished he more than likely would have been the starter....so to say "wilson couldnt beat out glennon" doesnt really add up does it? i dont think it does....its not like wilson held a clipboard behind glennon ever......burrow legit held one for guys he was much better than

[TBayXXXVII 2,132]

Back to the topic at hand though... I don't think the Jets situation, from an offensive performance stand point, is better than the Bengals.  I think the pass catchers and backfield were better in Cincinnati than they are in NY.  I'm not so sure that Corey Davis can be a WR1, Crowder a WR2, and Moore/Mims a WR3.  At this point, I see them as Davis and Crowder as WR3's and Moore/Mims as WR4's.  I also think the backfield is terrible.  Now, could Wilson make them better?  Sure.  That's what a franchise QB does.  I don't get that vibe from Wilson.  I did from Burrow.  If you get that vibe from Wilson, then I'm not going to say "you're wrong", I'll just tell you I disagree.  I think that most people agree with my assessment.  So, take Wilson, but don't over pay.  If you like him, than use our doubt to your advantage.

[TBayXXXVII 2,132]

6 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

burrow legit held one for guys he was much better than

I don't know that this is true.  Burrow wasn't a highly rated NFL prospect after his 2018 season.  JT Barrett was a great college QB.  All 4 of his years were better than what Burrow did in 2018.  It's clear that Burrow needed time and a system to fit him.  That wasn't at Ohio State.  Haskins' 2018 season was far superior to Burrow's.  To say he was better than guys who put up better numbers than he did, is revisionist history using the NFL as the lens.

[bobby heenan 60]

10 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Back to the topic at hand though... I don't think the Jets situation, from an offensive performance stand point, is better than the Bengals.  I think the pass catchers and backfield were better in Cincinnati than they are in NY.  I'm not so sure that Corey Davis can be a WR1, Crowder a WR2, and Moore/Mims a WR3.  At this point, I see them as Davis and Crowder as WR3's and Moore/Mims as WR4's.  I also think the backfield is terrible.  Now, could Wilson make them better?  Sure.  That's what a franchise QB does.  I don't get that vibe from Wilson.  I did from Burrow.  If you get that vibe from Wilson, then I'm not going to say "you're wrong", I'll just tell you I disagree.  I think that most people agree with my assessment.  So, take Wilson, but don't over pay.  If you like him, than use our doubt to your advantage.

i dont suggest over paying...in fact i mean...did anyone even draft burrow in a non keeper/dynasty league? prob not.......just saying...dont be suprised if he puts up garbage numbers...provided hes not getting knocked around like burrow/carr etc...then the jets will prob be in "protect him" mode.....

 

as far as burrow/barret/haskins...the nfl is the only lense....haskins may have a chance to come back...but nobody knows what jt barret is up to and haskins was on the verge of going to the same place......we could go in circles about burrow and the ohio state stuff....reality is wilson, russell that is, never held a clipboard for glennon....burrow, a heisman winner and #1 overall pick, held them for guys who never made it and or are nearly washed out of the league.......even to this day, in the nfl, it seems that teams are becoming enamored with the russ, mahomes, allen etc types...which is fine..i mean...if youve got a guy with athleticism that can extend plays and make big ones....thats awesome....but give me a guy like burrow or mac who have decent pocket presence and can deliver balls well...good accuracy and placement...ill take those guys any day......a good solid football team with a solid qb will beat those guys more times than not.....the mike vicks and lamar jacksons win football games but rarely the big ones.....even mahomes has been beaten twice(and prob should have been 3x) by brady....foles wont a sb....id rather have a brees/brady/manning who are in complete control than the super athletic guys....i think burrow could have been just as successful at ohio st in that system....but only one guy is going to play and certain coaches get enamored with that extra ability

[TBayXXXVII 2,132]

7 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

i dont suggest over paying...in fact i mean...did anyone even draft burrow in a non keeper/dynasty league? prob not.......just saying...dont be suprised if he puts up garbage numbers...provided hes not getting knocked around like burrow/carr etc...then the jets will prob be in "protect him" mode.....

 

as far as burrow/barret/haskins...the nfl is the only lense....haskins may have a chance to come back...but nobody knows what jt barret is up to and haskins was on the verge of going to the same place......we could go in circles about burrow and the ohio state stuff....reality is wilson, russell that is, never held a clipboard for glennon....burrow, a heisman winner and #1 overall pick, held them for guys who never made it and or are nearly washed out of the league.......even to this day, in the nfl, it seems that teams are becoming enamored with the russ, mahomes, allen etc types...which is fine..i mean...if youve got a guy with athleticism that can extend plays and make big ones....thats awesome....but give me a guy like burrow or mac who have decent pocket presence and can deliver balls well...good accuracy and placement...ill take those guys any day......a good solid football team with a solid qb will beat those guys more times than not.....the mike vicks and lamar jacksons win football games but rarely the big ones.....even mahomes has been beaten twice(and prob should have been 3x) by brady....foles wont a sb....id rather have a brees/brady/manning who are in complete control than the super athletic guys....i think burrow could have been just as successful at ohio st in that system....but only one guy is going to play and certain coaches get enamored with that extra ability

Last year, in the two leagues I was in that weren't keeper leagues, Burrow was drafted as an QB2... around 16th or 17th QB taken.  I believe round 12 in both leagues (12 teams), 16-man rosters (start 9).

No, Wilson didn't carry a clipboard... two reasons, 1) he was there first (unlike Burrow), and 2) he left.  JT Barrett was a Heisman Trophy finalist the year before Burrow got to OSU.  He wasn't even going to get a chance to start.

If you're going to use the NFL as a lens for revisionist history, then it's a topic I won't discuss because you're trying to use the present to justify the past without being there to know the circumstances.

[bobby heenan 60]

16 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't know that this is true.  Burrow wasn't a highly rated NFL prospect after his 2018 season.  JT Barrett was a great college QB.  All 4 of his years were better than what Burrow did in 2018.  It's clear that Burrow needed time and a system to fit him.  That wasn't at Ohio State.  Haskins' 2018 season was far superior to Burrow's.  To say he was better than guys who put up better numbers than he did, is revisionist history using the NFL as the lens.

were getting way off topic here....but i like the convo and its all friendly and good...

was having this convo the other day with a friend....he kept talking about how the nfl is moving towards the wilson(russ/zach, allen, mahomes, lance types......and i said "yeah to a degree...certain people are falling in love with that and i can see why"......"buttttttttttt....look at who is still winining superbowls? the oldest, slowest, but smartest qb weve seen".....i continued nothing that we arent that far removed from nick foles winning one with HIS own favorite team.........physically theres no comparison between brady and a-rod....a-rod still has a stronger arm...can still move better.....but brady was able to beat him on his own field in the biggest game of the year....by using his senses....and that scotty miller throw? i mean...who expected brady to go for it? but he knew he had it? look at how brady beat mahomes in the afc title game a few years ago? some of the throws he made were absolute perfection.....while some are enamored with the athletic style there is still room for guys like burrow, mac jones and brady

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Last year, in the two leagues I was in that weren't keeper leagues, Burrow was drafted as an QB2... around 16th or 17th QB taken.  I believe round 12 in both leagues (12 teams), 16-man rosters (start 9).

and thats not a crazy price to pay...for an upside backup...imo......i think we differ on the supporting cast matter..which is fine...i cant say youre wrong there....i just think wilsons isnt that bad at all......so fields isnt starting week 1 now from what ive heard....lance is still up in the air....we know wilson is more than likely going to start from week 1....and you arent rolling him out there yet.......i prob wouldnt grab wilson in round 12 of a redraft 12 man....thats early....but if you can wait a little longer...maybe even much longer....i think theres a potential bargain....hes got some feet on him too and we all know those qb rushing yards can sometimes yield you can extra 4-6 points 

[AxeElf 787]

Wilson has definitely looked like the best of the rookie QBs so far.  I wouldn't draft any of them, but Wilson is winning the preseason.

[Utilit99 4,099]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:24 AM, weepaws said:

Avoid all Jets, Texans , and Lions , that’s a winning move.  This is when paying attention to preseason games is a bad thing , last season that wasn’t a problem. 

 

Thanks. 

Yeah. Walter Payton played years on a crappy Bears team amd Barry Sanders played years on a crappy Lions team. You would never had wanted to draft them. 

Tons of players throughout time have been great fantasy players on crappy teams.

[Utilit99 4,099]

On 8/24/2021 at 12:43 PM, AxeElf said:

Wilson has definitely looked like the best of the rookie QBs so far.  I wouldn't draft any of them, but Wilson is winning the preseason.

Size, accuracy, strong arm, height, mobility, much improved oline, and has definitely impressed the most of any rookie QB so far....

At least it's a good start. 

 

[DrG 94]

The early returns suggest Jones and Wilson will be the best rookie qbs this year at least. Romo for what it’s worth, has said that he thinks Wilson has some special attributes.

[weepaws 2,475]

6 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Yeah. Walter Payton played years on a crappy Bears team amd Barry Sanders played years on a crappy Lions team. You would never had wanted to draft them. 

Tons of players throughout time have been great fantasy players on crappy teams.

True that, so name me the players on the 2021 Jets, Texans, and Lions that are going to be great ff players this season, and when you name them rank them so I know how great. 

Thanks w 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2021 has yet to be played. But if someone is not even considering the future outlook of guys like Michael Carter, D'Andre Swift, TJ Hockenson, Zach Wilson, etc, then I think they are doing themselves a disservice if they play fantasy football.

And more than 1 or 2 people in this country play in fantasy leagues that are dynasty or simply keeper leagues in many forms. 

But we will see I guess. That's the fun of fantasy football.  

[weepaws 2,475]

I’m not one of those 1or 2 owners that need to pretend that I’m a real gm. I’ll teach you about 2022 after 2021 his been played. Your welcome. 

I only play in redraft leagues, so nope I’m not at all concern about the future outlook of those ff studs you just mentioned, Carter, Swift, Hockensen, Wilson. 

And since your a Bears  fan I notice you didn’t mention Fields, I guess your not considering his future outlook.

 Thanks w

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

18 hours ago, weepaws said:

I’m not one of those 1or 2 owners that need to pretend that I’m a real gm. I’ll teach you about 2022 after 2021 his been played. Your welcome. 

I only play in redraft leagues, so nope I’m not at all concern about the future outlook of those ff studs you just mentioned, Carter, Swift, Hockensen, Wilson. 

And since your a Bears  fan I notice you didn’t mention Fields, I guess your not considering his future outlook.

 Thanks w

 

I don't approach playing fantasy football as a homer. And Fields went for way more then Wilson in my draft. Auction values of players mean a lot when under a salary cap. Sometimes you can't afford every player that is on the board. Not that you would know that. 

[weepaws 2,475]

Do you have an opening in that auction league? If so I’m in.

Truly mean it , I haven’t been in a auction league for a little while, but it’s a very simply way of drafting a winner. 

Im In if your league as a spot ? 

[idlewild 6]

Zach > Joe