Debt Ceiling 2023

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

Let it happen. It will all be on Biden. Maybe for once he will be held accountable.  

[dogcows 1,030]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I agree with your position in theory. But in the real world the Democrats need to compromise. Voters chose to give Republicans the majority in the House. Elections have consequences. We need to deal with it. 

Nope. McCarthy is weak, and going past the debt limit will hurt the GOP far more politically than it will hurt Biden. Compromise is great in many situations. It’s absolutely the wrong move politically here. He cannot send the message that ransoming the economy will get the GOP what they want. Or they will do it every single year.

[dogcows 1,030]

11 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Let it happen. It will all be on Biden. Maybe for once he will be held accountable.  

History tells us that voters saw it the exact opposite way last time the GOP did this. So you are actually cheering for 4 more years of Biden.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

21 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Nope. McCarthy is weak, and going past the debt limit will hurt the GOP far more politically than it will hurt Biden. Compromise is great in many situations. It’s absolutely the wrong move politically here. He cannot send the message that ransoming the economy will get the GOP what they want. Or they will do it every single year.

I agree with you that it will hurt the GOP far more than it will hurt Biden. 

But I really don’t care about that. What I care about is that it will also hurt millions of Americans, terribly, and possibly for years or decades if our credit rating is lowered. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

Do it. He refused to negotiate. All on him.  The only plan out there is the Republican one.   Biden voted against  raising the debt ceiling four times. 

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I agree with you that it will hurt the GOP far more than it will hurt Biden. 

But I really don’t care about that. What I care about is that it will also hurt millions of Americans, terribly, and possibly for years or decades if our credit rating is lowered. 

Agree.

Now have this same concern for Biden causing needless inflation and energy prices as well. That hurt everyone.

There is nothing wrong with the expectation of the WH to agree to some strategic cuts to lower costs. There is also nothing wrong with the Republicans conceding to raising the limit without getting everything they want.  Compramise is how this thing is intended to work. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

I’m hoping there is no deal.  We know who this really hurts and I’m all for it. Even for a little while. 

[dogcows 1,030]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

Agree.

Now have this same concern for Biden causing needless inflation and energy prices as well. That hurt everyone.

There is nothing wrong with the expectation of the WH to agree to some strategic cuts to lower costs. There is also nothing wrong with the Republicans conceding to raising the limit without getting everything they want.  Compramise is how this thing is intended to work. 

No problem with compromise. However, it should be happening during annual budget negotiations. The “debt ceiling” is of dubious legality to begin with, and the idea that the economy can be severely hurt is being used as leverage by McCarthy right now. That’s disrespectful of the millions who work and pay taxes and just want to live their lives.

Both parties will have their chance to negotiate when it’s time to pass a budget later this year.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

No problem with compromise. However, it should be happening during annual budget negotiations. The “debt ceiling” is of dubious legality to begin with, and the idea that the economy can be severely hurt is being used as leverage by McCarthy right now. That’s disrespectful of the millions who work and pay taxes and just want to live their lives.

Both parties will have their chance to negotiate when it’s time to pass a budget later this year.

I am disinclined to consent that it should not happen now, or in association with the debt ceiling. The two elements here are not mutually exclusive.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

Biden wants to spend money without congressional approval.  We are on the verge of a constitutional crisis. Democracy is at stake. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m hoping there is no deal.  We know who this really hurts and I’m all for it. Even for a little while. 

This “let’s burn it all down” thing is a conservative thing (and then only some of them.) I don’t know a single liberal who thinks this way. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This “let’s burn it all down” thing is a conservative thing (and then only some of them.) I don’t know a single liberal who thinks this way. 

Lol. Did you miss the summer of 2020? You’re a funny guy. You amuse me.  

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lol. Did you miss the summer of 2020? You’re a funny guy. You amuse me.  

Those weren’t liberals. Those were scum, thugs. Why do you guys persist in insisting that the criminals in 2020 were the same as the peaceful protestors, or that they were supported by the Democratic Party? It’s a lie, a very false narrative, and it’s getting tiresome. 

[shadrap 220]

38 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Those weren’t liberals. Those were scum, thugs. Why do you guys persist in insisting that the criminals in 2020 were the same as the peaceful protestors, or that they were supported by the Democratic Party? It’s a lie, a very false narrative, and it’s getting tiresome. 

top Dem's, starting with Kamala established a get out of jail fund for these criminals, peaceful protestors to enable them to go out and do it again  & again.  false narrative?  Say again??

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Those weren’t liberals. Those were scum, thugs. Why do you guys persist in insisting that the criminals in 2020 were the same as the peaceful protestors, or that they were supported by the Democratic Party? It’s a lie, a very false narrative, and it’s getting tiresome. 

The democrats supported them. Pelosi wondered why there weren’t more. Kamala said they shouldn’t stop. And I bet you never differentiated between conservatives and the Jan 6 mostly peaceful protesters and them. Not a chance.   Gotta own it. It’s yours. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:07 PM, dogcows said:

Kevin McCarthy passed a bill to cut $30 billion of veterans’ benefits.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/04/24/proposed-gop-cuts-would-slash-30-billion-from-veterans-spending/

And if he doesn’t raise the debt ceiling, no military members will get paid, period. We could have homeless soldiers who are still on active duty, thanks to spineless Kevin.

Shame.

 

Your beloved Washington Post gives Biden 4 Pinnochios for his VA cuts claim.   

[Mike Honcho 5,096]

Is the debt ceiling constitutional?  14th Amendment argument. 

As the stalemate over addressing the debt ceiling continues and the threat of default looms larger, President Joe Biden has resurfaced the controversial idea of using the 14th Amendment as a way to lift the borrowing cap without Congress.

How could a 145-year-old change to the US Constitution that gave citizenship to former slaves serve as a path out of the debt ceiling drama? Government officials and legal authorities are divided over whether it does.

Some experts, including Laurence H. Tribe of Harvard Law School, point to Section 4 of the amendment as the basis of their argument that the president has the authority to order the nation’s debts be paid regardless of the debt limit Congress put in place more than 100 years ago.

“The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned,” reads the section, which refers to the debt incurred by the Union to fight the Civil War.

Lawmakers who crafted the amendment are very strongly saying that once the US borrows money, it has to pay it back, said Garrett Epps, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oregon. The section was designed to remove debt payments from potential post-war partisan bickering between the North and South, but it also applies to the wide divide between Democrats and Republicans today.

“The federal government is required to pay the debt on time in full,” said Epps, who has long supported using this option in the event Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling.

   

[RLLD 4,143]

11 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Is the debt ceiling constitutional?  14th Amendment argument. 

As the stalemate over addressing the debt ceiling continues and the threat of default looms larger, President Joe Biden has resurfaced the controversial idea of using the 14th Amendment as a way to lift the borrowing cap without Congress.

How could a 145-year-old change to the US Constitution that gave citizenship to former slaves serve as a path out of the debt ceiling drama? Government officials and legal authorities are divided over whether it does.

Some experts, including Laurence H. Tribe of Harvard Law School, point to Section 4 of the amendment as the basis of their argument that the president has the authority to order the nation’s debts be paid regardless of the debt limit Congress put in place more than 100 years ago.

“The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned,” reads the section, which refers to the debt incurred by the Union to fight the Civil War.

Lawmakers who crafted the amendment are very strongly saying that once the US borrows money, it has to pay it back, said Garrett Epps, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oregon. The section was designed to remove debt payments from potential post-war partisan bickering between the North and South, but it also applies to the wide divide between Democrats and Republicans today.

“The federal government is required to pay the debt on time in full,” said Epps, who has long supported using this option in the event Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling.

   

Oh how I long for the days when this behavior and mentality was considered wrong. One day it will again.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

12 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Oh how I long for the days when this behavior and mentality was considered wrong. One day it will again.

They don’t care about this country.   It has been shown that the CIA interfered in an election.  They won so it’s ok.  

[JustinCharge 2,397]

i cant believe there are 4 pages on this subject.  no one cares about the debt ceiling.  the liberal MSM just trot it out when we have divided government to try to smear republicans.  its literally been going on for decades, and nothing ever changes.  its gotta be the most boring topic out there.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

Getting closer by the day. Supposedly they’re talking but nobody is agreeing. Given the fact that even if McCarthy and Biden find a way to agree, McCarthy then still has to sell it to his folks in the House, including the Freedom Caucus, I don’t see how this is going to work. Hope I’m wrong. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

The government gets money from me every month.  And every other tax payer.  That won’t stop on June 1. 

[squistion 1,947]

 

[Mike Honcho 5,096]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:44 PM, The Real timschochet said:

I agree with your position in theory. But in the real world the Democrats need to compromise. Voters chose to give Republicans the majority in the House. Elections have consequences. We need to deal with it. 

 

On 5/2/2023 at 12:45 PM, The Real timschochet said:

The problem with the Democratic position is that they’re acting like the Republican argument shouldn’t exist; they should just agree to raise the debt ceiling with no input. But Republicans won the House in free and fair elections so they get to have input. And veto power. 
 

The problem with the Republican position is that they’re acting like they get to have an equal say or even more. They don’t. They have the House, but lost the Senate and the Presidency in free and fair elections. Therefore their input should be around 33%. 

The people who spent the money were chosen by the voters,  they set, passed a budget and now the money has been spent.  What's BS is the entire concept of then "well, we bought this, but now we aren't going to pay for it" unless there is some negotiation.  The entire debt ceiling is another absurd thing that no other country does(save Denmark).   

Addressing the deficits and national debt by not raising the debt ceiling is closing the barn doors after all the horses have left. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

 

Joe Biden voted against raising the debt ceiling numerous times. 

[edjr 6,578]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:45 PM, Hardcore troubadour said:

Let it happen. It will all be on Biden. Maybe for once he will be held accountable.  

Yeah. The finally got him yesterday! What an interview! The media should be proud.