Agent change points to franchise tag for Daniel Jones

[League Champion 362]

The franchise tag, for Jones?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/20/agent-change-points-to-franchise-tag-for-daniel-jones/

[Ray_T 446]

well, if the reports are to be believed 45 M is by far too much for this guy given the body of work.

not saying hes bad, hes been solid,  but I dont think hes 45M good.

[League Champion 362]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

well, if the reports are to be believed 45 M is by far too much for this guy given the body of work.

not saying hes bad, hes been solid,  but I dont think hes 45M good.

I agree. It's a super tough spot for the Giants. They almost have to pay him, there's nothing else out there. 

[Ray_T 446]

well, either they pay for him or they bring in Carr (also an option) or  possibly one of the other FA QB's out there like Garoppolo.

someone has to sign these guys, might as well see what the options are.

the non exclusive franchise tag may be a nice way to go about it.   then he can shop around and see what the market is for his services.   I cant honestly see any teams doing a long term deal with this guy at anywhere beyond the current franchise tag dollar amount.   and if they do, the team gets two first rounders and can move on (and possibly sign someone else anyhow)

[League Champion 362]

8 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, either they pay for him or they bring in Carr (also an option) or  possibly one of the other FA QB's out there like Garoppolo.

someone has to sign these guys, might as well see what the options are.

the non exclusive franchise tag may be a nice way to go about it.   then he can shop around and see what the market is for his services.   I cant honestly see any teams doing a long term deal with this guy at anywhere beyond the current franchise tag dollar amount.   and if they do, the team gets two first rounders and can move on (and possibly sign someone else anyhow)

Very true. I like Jones but he's in that middle tier of QB for me. There's no way I'd pay him upper echelon money. I guess the Carr contract will dictate what happens with him, it's good to be Danny right now.

[jrokh 507]

It’s good to be any above average QB right now. 35 million a year is the absolute lowest number you will get.

[weepaws 1,797]

Something interesting I just saw looking at last seasons stats, Fields had two more passing tds then D Jones.  

[jrokh 507]

7 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Something interesting I just saw looking at last seasons stats, Fields had two more passing tds then D Jones.  

It’s only interesting to one who doesn’t watch the games. The Giants didn’t throw a lot, and had replacement level pass catchers. The Bears were always trailing and had to throw all game long. DJ’s Total QBR was tied for 6th, Fields was 17th…

[Ray_T 446]

so its basically a game manager vs a gunslinger but the gunslinger doesnt seem to be able to complete a pass.

[weepaws 1,797]

51 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

so its basically a game manager vs a gunslinger but the gunslinger doesnt seem to be able to complete a pass.

Fields had 154 less pass attempts then Jones, but managed to pass for two more tds. 

[League Champion 362]

5 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Fields had 154 less pass attempts then Jones, but managed to pass for two more tds. 

[jrokh 507]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Fields had 154 less pass attempts then Jones, but managed to pass for two more tds. 

Fields also threw for 6 more interceptions. What’s your point?

[League Champion 362]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Fields also threw for 6 more interceptions. What’s your point?

Both suck? 

[jrokh 507]

54 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Both suck? 

Fields might, he is still young though. DJ finished 6th in Total QBR. His advance metrics are pretty good. He is what he is an above average QB, who had replacement level pass catchers. He has proven that he is tough and can handle NY, something few QB's seem to manage. Unlikely he will ever be an All-Pro, but above average will get you close to 40 million. That's the way salaries have evolved...

[Ray_T 446]

51 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Both suck? 

well, in the case of fields the numbers were somewhat deceiving.

if you saw the offense early in the year, you'd question whether fields is qualified enough to hold a keyboard.   he was actually worse than what the numbers showed.

what I dont know is whether that is the fault of the player or the coaching staff.   it was pretty bad dude.   I'll admit it looked better later in the year, but for half the season this looked like a high school offense.

at least under Danny Dimes the team looked like it knew what it wanted to do with the football and the offense looked legit.   Granted he was helped by a fully healthy Sequon Barkley who made his job easier.   all he had to do most times was manage the offense.  he didnt need to light it up and the fact that teams had to key on Sequon really opened things up for Danny Dimes.

Fields didnt have the support that Danny dimes did nor did he have the coaching (in my opinion)

either way, there is a difference between being passable and being an all star.   Danny dimes is passable.  not much more.   probably deserves no more than 20 mil per year but in this new wacko salary cap world he will probably get 30+ M.    but he does not deserve 45 M (at least if the reports are true that hes asking for this)

 

 

[weepaws 1,797]

4 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, in the case of fields the numbers were somewhat deceiving.

if you saw the offense early in the year, you'd question whether fields is qualified enough to hold a keyboard.   he was actually worse than what the numbers showed.

what I dont know is whether that is the fault of the player or the coaching staff.   it was pretty bad dude.   I'll admit it looked better later in the year, but for half the season this looked like a high school offense.

at least under Danny Dimes the team looked like it knew what it wanted to do with the football and the offense looked legit.   Granted he was helped by a fully healthy Sequon Barkley who made his job easier.   all he had to do most times was manage the offense.  he didnt need to light it up and the fact that teams had to key on Sequon really opened things up for Danny Dimes.

Fields didnt have the support that Danny dimes did nor did he have the coaching (in my opinion)

either way, there is a difference between being passable and being an all star.   Danny dimes is passable.  not much more.   probably deserves no more than 20 mil per year but in this new wacko salary cap world he will probably get 30+ M.    but he does not deserve 45 M (at least if the reports are true that hes asking for this)

 

 

I agree with you, I just found it interesting that with very little wr help like D Jones had, Fields did throw for more passing tds then did Jones, and with 154 less att, neither team had any good playmakers at the wr slot.   But one of them is asking for a lot of money.   

 

[jrokh 507]

6 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

Danny dimes is passable.  not much more.   probably deserves no more than 20 mil per year but in this new wacko salary cap world he will probably get 30+ M.

20 million is not starting QB money anymore. Last year Ryan Tannehill made 29 M, and Carson Wentz made 28 M. DJ had a lot better year than both of them put together...

[jrokh 507]

1 minute ago, weepaws said:

I agree with you, I just found it interesting that with very little wr help like D Jones had, Fields did throw for more passing tds then did Jones, and with 154 less att, neither team had any good playmakers at the wr slot.   But one of them is asking for a lot of money.   

 

If I didn't know you were a moron, I would think you were just trolling. You see player A in this example, Daniel Jones isn't under contract. His rookie deal expired. Player B, Fields still has 2 or 3 years left to go on his rookie deal, thus he can't ask for anything. Always happy to help the less fortunate...

[League Champion 362]

3 minutes ago, jrokh said:

20 million is not starting QB money anymore. Last year Ryan Tannehill made 29 M, and Carson Wentz made 28 M. DJ had a lot better year than both of them put together...

Agree, he'll probably get in that 35 Mill range, I'd be shocked if he got 40+. Maybe on a short deal though. 

[weepaws 1,797]

If you look at qbr  Jones was tied with ff mvp G Smith huh, Goff was ahead of Jones so just imagine what Goff is worth based on qbr. 

Behind Jones was Burrow and Herbert so I guess Jones is better then those two.   

Thanks. 

[weepaws 1,797]

6 minutes ago, jrokh said:

If I didn't know you were a moron, I would think you were just trolling. You see player A in this example, Daniel Jones isn't under contract. His rookie deal expired. Player B, Fields still has 2 or 3 years left to go on his rookie deal, thus he can't ask for anything. Always happy to help the less fortunate...

Calm down Francis, before you explode.  

[jrokh 507]

7 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Behind Jones was Burrow and Herbert so I guess Jones is better then those two.   

He had a better year than them according to the advanced metrics, you are correct.

[jrokh 507]

Just now, weepaws said:

Calm down Francis, before you explode.  

The line is lighten up Francis. You can't even get that right...

[weepaws 1,797]

55 minutes ago, jrokh said:

The line is lighten up Francis. You can't even get that right...

Calm down Francis, go get a custard pudding and chew some gummies, it’s 8:38 Cleveland time.  

I still find it interesting that with 154 more pass att Jones threw two fewer tds passes then Fields.  

[weepaws 1,797]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

Agree, he'll probably get in that 35 Mill range, I'd be shocked if he got 40+. Maybe on a short deal though. 

Sad that Jones in today’s nfl market is worth that much.  The NFL is very watered down.  

[jrokh 507]

21 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I still find it interesting that with 154 more pass att Jones threw two fewer tds passes then Fields.

If you either watched the games or were smart, you wouldn’t find it all that interesting…

[Ray_T 446]

3 hours ago, weepaws said:

Behind Jones was Burrow and Herbert so I guess Jones is better then those two.  

ok now we are getting into crazy talk.

I know the metrics say that but Herbert was injured most of the year along with many of the starting WR in LA. and Burrow had other issues which includes WR's injured and guys on the line injured.

dont get me wrong... jones had a nice year.  but literally everything went right for him.   the line was better than expected, Sequon came back and was productive, better coaching.... the list goes on.

what it shows me is in the right situation with the right coach, the kid can play.   but you will never convince me hes a better player than Herbert or Burrow.

thats just not right.

[weepaws 1,797]

Expect for a Gmen homer there is no way anyone would even consider that D Jones is a top 6th Qb because of his qbr ranking.  

Last season he wasn’t even better then mr ff mvp G Smith.   

It’s a very poor way of trying to justify Jones performance.  

So Ray I can’t agree that Jones is better then Herbert or Burrow. 

 

[GutterBoy 861]

Love DJ, but I'm not paying him $45M.  I'd rather draft a nobody while we continue our rebuild.

[jrokh 507]

10 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Love DJ, but I'm not paying him $45M.  I'd rather draft a nobody while we continue our rebuild.

Highly unlikely they will pay him $45M. Worse case they just Tag him for 1 year $32M. regardless, this is just standard negotiations. DJ asks for 45, the Giants Counter with 35 and hopefully they settle at something like 38.

[GutterBoy 861]

2 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Highly unlikely they will pay him $45M. Worse case they just Tag him for 1 year $32M. regardless, this is just standard negotiations. DJ asks for 45, the Giants Counter with 35 and hopefully they settle at something like 38.

I think Danny is betting on himself.  Play one more year on Franchise tag, ball out, and then cash in.  If he doesn't ball this year, Giants move on.

Be interesting to see if Daboll asks him to do more than he did last season.  His weapons won't be much better.

[jrokh 507]

12 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

His weapons won't be much better.

They can't be much worse...

[League Champion 362]

5 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

think Danny is betting on himself.  Play one more year on Franchise tag, ball out, and then cash in.  If he doesn't ball this year, Giants move on.

I think that's what ultimately happens. The Giants are paying him one way or another. What choice do they have? 

[Ray_T 446]

non exclusive franchise tag.   This is what I see in his future.   

he can go negotiate with teams and may come back with a true idea of his market value.

if a team overpays, the Giants get two firsts and can move on.   I'm not 100% sure they are sold on him anyways.   if that is the case, they get 2 firsts, and can Sign Carr or Garoppolo or whoever.

there is even the possibility they end up with Danny Dimes at a reasonable price if things fall right

[League Champion 362]

6 hours ago, Ray_T said:

if a team overpays, the Giants get two firsts and can move on.   I'm not 100% sure they are sold on him anyways.   if that is the case, they get 2 firsts, and can Sign Carr or Garoppolo or whoever.

That's probably the way to go but I doubt anyone will give up 2 first round picks for him, especially if they have to pay him what he's going to ask. They F'd up, should of inked him to that 5th year option. 

I think the Giants will ultimately have to over pay for him. 

[League Champion 362]

If Jones gets anything over 30 million a year then what's Hurts getting, 50??? 

[Ray_T 446]

8 hours ago, League Champion said:

That's probably the way to go but I doubt anyone will give up 2 first round picks for him, especially if they have to pay him what he's going to ask. They F'd up, should of inked him to that 5th year option. 

I think the Giants will ultimately have to over pay for him. 

arguably I dont think they did F up.    if they still had the 5th year option hed have another year to prove he deserves the money.   that could be good or bad.

in this case if he lights it up they will undoubtedly pay the man.

but at the time, it was looking like he was more suspect than prospect.  why sign up for an extra 20 Mil?    obviously he stepped up and proved he can play.  but its not like he kicked the door down.  he was good but not great.

thus the non exclusive tag.    he can shop around and see what hes worth before signing.

 

[weepaws 1,797]

To date his best ff season was his rookie season, they need to get him some help for him to light it up.  

[Bills04 44]

Giants GM Joe Schoen said the team isn't close on an extension for QB Daniel Jones.

"You're starting to feel the time crunch. Wish we were a little closer on a deal than what we are right now. But again, there's still time." The Giants met with Jones' agents at the Combine and hope to get something done before Tuesday's franchise tag deadline. Jones is asking for $45 million per year while the Giants want to keep him on a deal closer to $35 million. The Giants plan to tag Jones if he's not extended before Tuesday, likely sending free agent RB Saquon Barkley to the open market.

 

You've gotta be kidding me..  Here are the highest paid QBs, now.  (NOTE: I think Kyler Murray is overpaid / an outlier.)

 

Highest paid QBs
Rodgers		$50.3M
Wilson		48.5
Murray		46.1
Watson		46
Mahomes		45
Allen		43
Stafford		40
Prescott		40
Goff		33.5

 

*I* think the write-up's target of $35M for Jones if reasonable.

 

What do others think?

 

 

[Showboat 83]

4 minutes ago, Bills04 said:

You've gotta be kidding me..  Here are the highest paid QBs, now.  (NOTE: I think Kyler Murray is overpaid / an outlier.)

 

  You could make an argument that they are all overpaid (except maybe Mahomes)