Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said: Oh, that part, LOL. Yeah, I was thinking more about the Dak & Purdy stuff. Yeah, the dude (Mayfield), he sucks. They screwed up and we're throwing away a year. They didn't need Cousins. The Bucs are pizzing away $50M (guaranteed money), on Mayfield these next 2 years when they could've used that money to bolster the interior OL. They need at least 1 G and a C and now have to look to rookies, which makes NO SENSE, when they could've gotten solid & experienced guys in free agency and drafted a QB (Penix or Nix could be there [or trade up a bit]), and get the same similar mediocre performance that you get from Mayfield. Mayfield is maxed out. He's maxed out at being a mediocre to below average QB in the league. That can be replaced in the draft. I'd rather have a QB that I know I'll have a competitive team that could win, but losses (like 13 other teams in the playoffs), then a QB who I know the season is over before it started. the real problem with Mayfield..... I dont think hes a terrible QB but hes just good enough to keep the team from getting a top draft pick that can be used to draft a franchise QB. granted this season the QB class is deep enough that I think a good candidate can be had in the first and early 2nd rounds. for all we know, maybe that is the plan. if taking a QB in round 2 or late in round 1, the pressure to play him may not be what it is if you take a kid in the top 10 picks overall. You can actually justify sitting him for a year before throwing him in there. That said, I honestly think the odds of this happening is low. but if you draft a QB in round 2 you likely can justify sitting the kid and/or working on his mechanics or whatever deficiencies he has until he is ready. (which in my opinion is what most of the QB's in this class likely need) either way, they do have other holes to fill and there are some plug and play O line guys available in this draft, so the line can be rebuilt if there is a will on the part of management. I see the value in that, but there are far too many teams who do not. I guess we will see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,545 Posted April 17, 2024 11 minutes ago, Ray_T said: the real problem with Mayfield..... I dont think hes a terrible QB but hes just good enough to keep the team from getting a top draft pick that can be used to draft a franchise QB. granted this season the QB class is deep enough that I think a good candidate can be had in the first and early 2nd rounds. for all we know, maybe that is the plan. if taking a QB in round 2 or late in round 1, the pressure to play him may not be what it is if you take a kid in the top 10 picks overall. You can actually justify sitting him for a year before throwing him in there. That said, I honestly think the odds of this happening is low. but if you draft a QB in round 2 you likely can justify sitting the kid and/or working on his mechanics or whatever deficiencies he has until he is ready. (which in my opinion is what most of the QB's in this class likely need) either way, they do have other holes to fill and there are some plug and play O line guys available in this draft, so the line can be rebuilt if there is a will on the part of management. I see the value in that, but there are far too many teams who do not. I guess we will see. You're right, I was exaggerating when I said he sucks. You're also right with your assessment. Mayfield is just good enough, to not suck [my input... not yours ---->] and force you to keep him, even though he doesn't actually upgrade your team. It's funny, I'll be both pizzed and happy if they take a QB in R1 or R2. We agree, there are too many holes to fill on the OL and defense to use a R1 or R2 pick on a QB. So, I'll be happy that they're looking to replace Mayfield with this draft class, but I'll be ticked that they guaranteed Mayfield 2 years and $50M. LOL If they'd have spent that money on the OL, they wouldn't need to address that in the draft. They could've packaged #26 and a 2nd to move up 8 to 10 picks to ensure they get a QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said: You're right, I was exaggerating when I said he sucks. You're also right with your assessment. Mayfield is just good enough, to not suck [my input... not yours ---->] and force you to keep him, even though he doesn't actually upgrade your team. It's funny, I'll be both pizzed and happy if they take a QB in R1 or R2. We agree, there are too many holes to fill on the OL and defense to use a R1 or R2 pick on a QB. So, I'll be happy that they're looking to replace Mayfield with this draft class, but I'll be ticked that they guaranteed Mayfield 2 years and $50M. LOL If they'd have spent that money on the OL, they wouldn't need to address that in the draft. They could've packaged #26 and a 2nd to move up 8 to 10 picks to ensure they get a QB. well, I like the plan of taking a QB late in round 1 or early round 2. but like I earlier said. I think it is unlikely to happen. but you can usually get a really good guard/Center in round 2 or 3 most years, so if they took a QB in round 1 then came back in round 2/3 and took a guard and Center they might be ok by the time that QB is ready to play (assuming they sit him at least half a season) alternatively they could take an O lineman in round 1 then trade up in round 2 to get that 2nd tier QB and come back in round 3 and take a Center. only problem is you are not upgrading the defense at all so you better nail those picks if you do it that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,545 Posted April 17, 2024 12 minutes ago, Ray_T said: well, I like the plan of taking a QB late in round 1 or early round 2. but like I earlier said. I think it is unlikely to happen. but you can usually get a really good guard/Center in round 2 or 3 most years, so if they took a QB in round 1 then came back in round 2/3 and took a guard and Center they might be ok by the time that QB is ready to play (assuming they sit him at least half a season) alternatively they could take an O lineman in round 1 then trade up in round 2 to get that 2nd tier QB and come back in round 3 and take a Center. only problem is you are not upgrading the defense at all so you better nail those picks if you do it that way. To me, the better plan would have been to spend the $50M (over 2 years), on FA's so that you can use your 1st and 2nd (possible trade up), to get a QB, then use both R3 picks on filling out the rest of the holes, not spending that on a bleh QB and needing your first 4 picks to be starters. Their allocation of resources is colossally stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said: To me, the better plan would have been to spend the $50M (over 2 years), on FA's so that you can use your 1st and 2nd (possible trade up), to get a QB, then use both R3 picks on filling out the rest of the holes, not spending that on a bleh QB and needing your first 4 picks to be starters. Their allocation of resources is colossally stupid. I get it. but the problem is those are usually only band aid solutions. Most of these free agents are in the 28-30 year old range so you are buying 2 or 3 years of good production and then those last couple years on the contract are.... dicey. so there is no perfect solution. and you are still getting a QB that is likely) acut below elite anyway. Much like the guy you are replacing. it is also possible they looked into the option and didnt think they could sign the guys they wanted to so went the path of least resistance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,545 Posted April 17, 2024 3 minutes ago, Ray_T said: I get it. but the problem is those are usually only band aid solutions. Most of these free agents are in the 28-30 year old range so you are buying 2 or 3 years of good production and then those last couple years on the contract are.... dicey. so there is no perfect solution. and you are still getting a QB that is likely) acut below elite anyway. Much like the guy you are replacing. it is also possible they looked into the option and didnt think they could sign the guys they wanted to so went the path of least resistance. I'm fine with the band-aid because the most important thing is having a franchise QB. It also gives them 2 to 3 drafts to draft the replacements for those players. Tampa has a solid core with Evans, Godwin, White, Otton, Wirfs, and Goedeke on offense. With Vea, David, Dean, & Winfield on defense (plus last year's early round picks Kancey and Diaby). There's no rebuild necessary. They're not the Panthers. The worst case scenario is (with letting Mayfield walk), you draft a QB and he can't beat out Trask... who totally blows and they get a top 3 pick next year. That top 3 pick turns into a franchise caliber QB who comes to a team with all those players I just mentioned. That's still a pretty solid team. If that guy doesn't workout, then you fire you GM because he clearly can't do the job (which I actually still think is the case... Tom Brady saved his job. Had Brady not been available in 2020, I think Jason Licht is fired after the 2020 season). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,986 Posted April 17, 2024 He unfollowed SF on social media for whatever it's worth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 3,191 Posted April 17, 2024 So we had a news story that he wanted out, then the denial, and now he has removed SF from his social media. Deva wr. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 12 minutes ago, weepaws said: So we had a news story that he wanted out, then the denial, and now he has removed SF from his social media. Deva wr. if they are in the process of a negotiation of sorts these things can get emotional for the player. but it certainly adds fuel to the story that he may have requested a trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,986 Posted April 17, 2024 1 hour ago, Ray_T said: if they are in the process of a negotiation of sorts these things can get emotional for the player. but it certainly adds fuel to the story that he may have requested a trade. Imagine if The Chargers put together a package for Aiyuk and signed Nabers? Won't happen but damn that's juicy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said: Imagine if The Chargers put together a package for Aiyuk and signed Nabers? Won't happen but damn that's juicy! well, I could see San Fran wanting at least a first for him. but hes younger and not injury prone like Keenan Allen was. but it would be a very quick way to rebuild the WR room for the chargers. and both teams are in different conferences. So that is actually a plus. if in the same conference/division the chances of a deal like this going down is low. while I dont know that this happens, if it did, I'd sure love watching the Chargers play this next year. I like Nabers. hes more of a burner than Harrison I think. I have not seen any times on Harrison but he looks slower (but more physical) than Nabers. and no surprise. I think Nabers was timed at sub 4.4 at his pro day which makes him a very scary WR to cover for most DB's. I think Harrison is technically superior in the sense that he runs more routes and more precise routes that dont depend as much on his speed. either way, the reason I dont think they do this is because they bailed on Keenan Allen (likely for cap reasons) so why would they bring in a player who will want likely close to the same money when his contract comes up? but we can dare to dream. I do think Herbert throwing to him and Nabers would be a very sweet situation indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,986 Posted April 17, 2024 1 hour ago, Ray_T said: think Harrison is technically superior in the sense that he runs more routes and more precise routes that dont depend as much on his speed. Harrison is the complete package, probably as complete as any player coming out of College EVER. Speed is no issue whatsoever. Parris Campbell surpassed 22 miles per hour. Campbell's 22.11 miles per hour is the fifth-fastest top speed by a ball-carrier during an NFL season since 2016. HARRISON IS FAST!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 ok that is a measure of the top speed. not the same as a 40 time which takes into account acceleration from not moving. usually when you see no 40 time like what is the case with him, you assume hes not as fast as advertised. I know Nabers at a 4.38 on the 40 is blazing fast too and he looks a bit faster on tape. (though that can be deceiving too) the other factor is playing speed is not always the same as running the 40 on a track built for speed. running on Turf is slightly different (usually slower) to that end, I'm surprised they dont have the guys run their 40 on turf. it would give a better idea as to the true playing speed of that WR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,986 Posted April 17, 2024 3 minutes ago, Ray_T said: usually when you see no 40 time like what is the case with him, you assume hes not as fast as advertised. I know Nabers at a 4.38 on the 40 is blazing fast too and he looks a bit faster on tape. (though that can be deceiving too) You can clearly see his acceleration on tape. He's consistently blowing 4.4 corners off the ball. I see no reason for concern. Here's an early scouting report: "In terms of his 40-yard dash time, Harrison Jr. has not officially recorded a time. However, he is believed to be one of the fastest players on the Ohio State team. In high school, he ran a 4.46-second 40-yard dash, which is an impressive time for a player of his size. Harrison Jr. is not just fast but also has excellent footwork and quick reflexes. He uses his speed to create separation from defenders and make plays down the field, as well as to make quick cuts and evade tackles". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 753 Posted April 17, 2024 24 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: You can clearly see his acceleration on tape. He's consistently blowing 4.4 corners off the ball. I see no reason for concern. Here's an early scouting report: "In terms of his 40-yard dash time, Harrison Jr. has not officially recorded a time. However, he is believed to be one of the fastest players on the Ohio State team. In high school, he ran a 4.46-second 40-yard dash, which is an impressive time for a player of his size. Harrison Jr. is not just fast but also has excellent footwork and quick reflexes. He uses his speed to create separation from defenders and make plays down the field, as well as to make quick cuts and evade tackles". to be clear, I am not dismissing Harrison as a prospect. I am loving what I am seeing. but it is good to know he was running close to 4.4 even in High school. so I am guessing hes just as fast as Nabors (possibly faster) but we still dont know for sure. Like I said earlier (though it may have been on a different thread) even assuming Nabors is faster, Harrison is a more NFL ready prospect. his body control/catch radius is very impressive and his physicality is superior. to be clear, I think both of them become the #1 on the team that drafts them by the end of the season. the only question I have is how quickly that happens. With Harrison it could happen day one as he has skills that translate immediately. its good info you brought to this conversation and I thank you for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites