Trump vs Harris Policy Thread - $10,000 PER KID FOR HOMESCHOOL $7,000 COST OF LIVING REDUCTION

[JuneJuly 193]

Interesting that she's attempting to steal from Trump's agenda that already doubled the CTC and wants to make his Tax Reform permeant and eliminate tax on tips.

Agenda 47 Economic Plan

Our Commitment: American Workers are the most productive, talented, and innovative on Earth. The only thing holding them back is the suffocating policies of the Democrat Party. Our America First Economic Agenda rests on five pillars: Slashing Regulations, cutting Taxes, securing Fair Trade Deals, ensuring Reliable and Abundant Low Cost Energy, and championing Innovation. Together, we will restore Economic Prosperity and Opportunity for all Americans.

1. Cut Regulations

Republicans will slash Regulations that stifle Jobs, Freedom, Innovation and make everything more expensive. We will implement Transparency and Common Sense in rulemaking.

2. Make Trump Tax Cuts Permanent and No Tax on Tips

Republicans will make permanent the provisions of the Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that doubled the standard deduction, expanded the Child Tax Credit, and spurred Economic Growth for all Americans. We will eliminate Taxes on Tips for millions of Restaurant and Hospitality Workers, and pursue additional Tax Cuts.

3. Fair and Reciprocal Trade Deals

Republicans will continue forging an America First Trade Policy as set forth in Chapter 5, standing up to Countries that cheat and prioritizing American Producers over Foreign Outsourcers. We will bring our critical Supply Chains back home. President Trump turned American Trade Policy around, protecting U.S. Producers, and renegotiating failed agreements.

4. Reliable and Abundant Low Cost Energy

Republicans will increase Energy Production across the board, streamline permitting, and end market-distorting restrictions on Oil, Natural Gas, and Coal. The Republican Party will once again make America Energy Independent, and then Energy Dominant, lowering Energy prices even below the record lows achieved during President Trump’s first term.

5. Champion Innovation

Republicans will pave the way for future Economic Greatness by leading the World in Emerging Industries.

Crypto

Republicans will end Democrats’ unlawful and unAmerican Crypto crackdown and oppose the creation of a Central Bank Digital Currency. We will defend the right to mine Bitcoin, and ensure every American has the right to self-custody of their Digital Assets, and transact free from Government Surveillance and Control.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)

We will repeal Joe Biden’s dangerous Executive Order that hinders AI Innovation, and imposes Radical Leftwing ideas on the development of this technology. In its place, Republicans support AI Development rooted in Free Speech and Human Flourishing.

Expanding Freedom, Prosperity and Safety in Space

Under Republican Leadership, the United States will create a robust Manufacturing Industry in Near Earth Orbit, send American Astronauts back to the Moon, and onward to Mars, and enhance partnerships with the rapidly expanding Commercial Space sector to revolutionize our ability to access, live in, and develop assets in Space.

[JuneJuly 193]

I think the promise to ban price gouging is just campaign rhetoric that will fall of deaf ears minus the lemmings, but, even CNN doesn't like that communist idea:

 

 

[JuneJuly 193]

Making me pay for idiot's student loads isn't enough.  Now they want me to pay for their down payment on a house too.   

[JuneJuly 193]

Team Trump wants to make housing more affordable too, just with more economically sound methods rather than throwing cash at people.  Although they do list "tax incentives and support for first-time buyers".

Our Commitment: Republicans offer a plan to make the American Dream affordable again. We commit to reducing Housing, Education, and Healthcare costs, while lowering everyday expenses, and increasing opportunities.

1. Housing Affordability To help new home buyers,

Republicans will reduce mortgage rates by slashing Inflation, open limited portions of Federal Lands to allow for new home construction, promote homeownership through Tax Incentives and support for first-time buyers, and cut unnecessary Regulations that raise housing costs.

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

50 minutes ago, JuneJuly said:

Making me pay for idiot's student loads isn't enough.  Now they want me to pay for their down payment on a house too.   

both are good ideas and what you fail to recognize is that if we don’t do this you will end up paying far more. 

[JuneJuly 193]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

both are good ideas and what you fail to recognize is that if we don’t do this you will end up paying far more. 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

4 minutes ago, JuneJuly said:

 

Policy only! So much for the character attacks and memes! Well done 

[JuneJuly 193]

Fair is Fair.  She's finally released some details of an agenda.  It spends a lot of words on the past trying to make it sound like she has the experience to be president so I extracted the "what is she going to do" part out and put it in bullet point form for everyone.  They also flat out lie and try to contrast it to Project 2025 which isn't Trump's agenda.  Contrast and criticism coming in follow up posts.

Tax Cuts for Middle Class

-          Child Tax Credit $6,000

-          Earned Income Credit

-          Roll Back Trump Tax Reform

-          Long-term Capital Gains over 1 million taxed at 28%

Make Rent More Affordable and Home Ownership Attainable

-          Build 3 million rental units

-          Cut red tape

-          First-time home buyers $25,000

Grow Small Businesses and Invest in Entrepreneurs

-          Goal for 25 million new business application

-          Start-up tax deduction from $5,000 to $50,000

Take on Bad Actors and Bring Down Costs

-          Crack down on anti-competitive practices.

-          Federal ban on price gouging on food and groceries

-          Take on Big Pharma

Strengthen and Bring Down Cost of HealthCare

-          Expand and strengthen the ACA

-          $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap our out of pocket

Protect Social Security and Mediccare

-          Do it by making millionaires and billionaire pay their fair share

Support American Innovation and Workers

-          Raise minimum wage

-          Eliminate sub-wages and tax on tips

Provide Pathway for Middle Class Through Quality, Affordable Education

-          Fight to made it affordable

Invest in Affordable Child Care and Long Term Care

-          Fight to make it affordable

Lower Energy Costs and Tackle Climate Crisis

-          Unite Americans to tackle the climate crisis

Restore and Protect Reproductive Freedoms

-          Defend freedoms

Protect Civil Right and Freedoms

-          John Lewis Voting Rights and Freedom to Vote Acts

Make Communities Safe from Gun Violence and Crime

-          Ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines

-          Require universal background checks and support red flag laws

-          Fund law enforcement and training of officers and people who support them

Secure Borders and Fix Broken Immigration

-          Bring back bipartisan border bill

-          She knows immigration system need reform and needs an extended pathway to citizenship

Tackle the Opioid and Fentanyl Crisis

-          Sign the bipartisan border bill that has technology to intercept illicit drugs

Ensure No One is Above the Lae

-          Fight to ensure no former president has immunity for crimes committed in the White House

-          Support Supreme Court reforms

Stand with our Allies, Up to Dictators and Lead the World

-          End the war in Gaza and secure the hostages’ release

Invest in America’s Sources of Strength

-          Invest in workers, innovation and industry

-          Stand up to China

Support Service Member and Their Families

-          Fight to end veteran homelessness, invest in mental health/suicide and eliminate barriers to employment

-          Make sure they receive their benefits

 

 

[JuneJuly 193]

Starting with the first one:

Tax Cuts for Middle Class

-          Child Tax Credit $6,000  (Stolen from Trump/Vance's $5,000.  I don't like either, pay for your own damn kids.)

-          Earned Income Credit (No specifics given.)

-          Roll Back Trump Tax Reform (This will raise taxes on everyone including the middle class.)

-          Long-term Capital Gains over 1 million taxed at 28%  (No thanks, will never pass legislation.)

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

Well your post begins with a falsehood. Trump can keep trying to deny it now but Project 2025 is absolutely his agenda and will be incorporated if he is elected.  

[JuneJuly 193]

Make Rent More Affordable and Home Ownership Attainable

-          Build 3 million rental units (Ok, don't use my tax dollars to do it.)

-          Cut red tape (Ok, they must have just ran out of things to say.)

-          First-time home buyers $25,000  (No thanks, this is a tax on everyone else, pay for your own damn house.)

[JuneJuly 193]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well your post begins with a falsehood. Trump can keep trying to deny it now but Project 2025 is absolutely his agenda and will be incorporated if he is elected.  

Policy discussion only.  Agenda 47 is posted to his website, referenced and linked here multiple times. Take your tin hat hot takes back to your thread loser.

[JuneJuly 193]

Grow Small Businesses and Invest in Entrepreneurs

-          Goal for 25 million new business application (Ok, it's nice to have goals.)

-          Start-up tax deduction from $5,000 to $50,000 (Ok. Opportunity to start another small business when I need a nice tax break.)

[seafoam1 2,803]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well your post begins with a falsehood. Trump can keep trying to deny it now but Project 2025 is absolutely his agenda and will be incorporated if he is elected.  

You are so stupid.

[JuneJuly 193]

Take on Bad Actors and Bring Down Costs

-          Crack down on anti-competitive practices. (All talk)

-          Federal ban on price gouging on food and groceries.  (Communizm 101. Most Dems don't even agree with this.)

-          Take on Big Pharma (Biden said you already defeated them, and Medicare.)

[JuneJuly 193]

Strengthen and Bring Down Cost of HealthCare

-          Expand and strengthen the ACA (I'm actually in favor of this for selfish reasons, let other people pay for my healthcare during retirement!)

-          $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap our out of pocket (This doesn't do anything, it's meaningless to anyone with healthcare.)

[JuneJuly 193]

Protect Social Security and Mediccare

-          Do it by making millionaires and billionaire pay their fair share (No specifics, all talk.  I'm ok trying to tax billionaires more.  Millionaires are middle income as far as I'm concerned)

Support American Innovation and Workers

-          Raise minimum wage (Dumb for all the socialist reasons hashed out a million times.)

-          Eliminate sub-wages and tax on tips (I'm fine with no tax on tips, most aren't reported anyway.  Eliminating sub-wages will just eliminate jobs with tips, dumb.)

Provide Pathway for Middle Class Through Quality, Affordable Education

-          Fight to made it affordable (No specifics, no plan, all talk. Will end up raising taxes.)

[JuneJuly 193]

Invest in Affordable Child Care and Long Term Care

-          Fight to make it affordable (No specifics, no plan, all talk.  Pay for your own child care.)

Lower Energy Costs and Tackle Climate Crisis

-          Unite Americans to tackle the climate crisis (No specifics, no plan, all talk.  You'd think the climate freaks would at least have a plan.)

Restore and Protect Reproductive Freedoms

-          Defend freedoms (No specifics, no plan, all talk.  At least in the debate she admitted she wanted to restore RvW back on the Federal level.  I don't care.)

Protect Civil Right and Freedoms

-          John Lewis Voting Rights and Freedom to Vote Acts (Both acts designed to get more fraudulent votes.  Do not like.)

[JuneJuly 193]

Make Communities Safe from Gun Violence and Crime

-          Ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines (She'll try to do something similar to Biden's assault weapons ban.  They'll have to define an assault weapon first and they can't even define a woman.  All smoke that won't do anything to reduce crime.)

-          Require universal background checks and support red flag laws (I'm fine with this.  But again, it's all talk, they won't do anything without getting gun restrictions included.)

-          Fund law enforcement and training of officers and people who support them. (Great, agree.  But note the "people who support them" that leaves the door open to the far left agenda.)

[JuneJuly 193]

Secure Borders and Fix Broken Immigration

-          Bring back bipartisan border bill (Beating a dead horse.  If you wanted the border closed it would be closed.)

-          She knows immigration system need reform and needs an extended pathway to citizenship.  (They won't do anything without something in the bill to citizenize their future voters.)

Tackle the Opioid and Fentanyl Crisis

-          Sign the bipartisan border bill that has technology to intercept illicit drugs (Beating a dead horse.  If you wanted the border closed it would be closed.)

[MDC 7,130]

I have a few concept of ideas.  

[JuneJuly 193]

35 minutes ago, MDC said:

I have a few concept of ideas.  

Trump loses his mind when he gets angry.  Let's compare what is written in their respective plans for this thread though.  Thanks for participating:

Trump:

Affordable Healthcare Healthcare and prescription drug costs are out of control. Republicans will increase Transparency, promote Choice and Competition, and expand access to new Affordable Healthcare and prescription drug options. We will protect Medicare, and ensure Seniors receive the care they need without being burdened by excessive costs.

Harris:

Vice President Harris will make affordable health care a right, not a privilege by expanding and strengthening the Affordable Care Act and making permanent the Biden-Harris tax credit enhancements that are lowering health care premiums by an average of about $800 a year for millions of Americans. She’ll build on the Biden-Harris Administration’s successes in bringing down the cost of lifesaving prescription drugs for Medicare beneficiaries by extending the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending for seniors to all Americans.

 

They pretty much say the same thing on this issue.  Harris does identify the expanded tax credits that expire this year.  That makes the ACA unaffordable/indistinguishable to anyone that makes over 400% the poverty level (approx $83,000).  There will be no more tax credits for those people starting next year so they pay full price which is equivalent to paying for private healthcare.  The income levels are based on your Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) so it includes things like capital gains, not just earned income.  That takes away the benefit of the ACA from a lot of people, albeit higher income people without company insurance plans. 

Harris is better on this issue overall.  I'd want the expanded tax credits made permanently, and the ACA expanded to make it even cheaper.  But, it's for selfish reasons. I want other people (tax payers) to pay for my healthcare during my retirement as I've got quite a few years before Medicare kicks in. Sign me up, yes please.  

[Fnord 2,051]

On 9/10/2024 at 6:26 PM, JuneJuly said:

Take your tin hat hot takes back to your thread loser.

Violating your own rules again, RogerTonyHorse

[HellToupee 1,587]

23 hours ago, JuneJuly said:

Tackle the Opioid and Fentanyl Crisis

Doesn’t Harris want to decriminalize all drugs? At least in 2019 she did

[mmmmm...beer 790]

On 8/16/2024 at 12:41 PM, JuneJuly said:

I think the promise to ban price gouging is just campaign rhetoric that will fall of deaf ears minus the lemmings, but, even CNN doesn't like that communist idea:

 

That'd the one that's scary.  Who determines that?  Seems pretty socialists and it's just asking to be ripe with corruption.   Sooooo many ways that could be abused.  And well... ya... it's pretty commie.

[JuneJuly 193]

15 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Violating your own rules again, RogerTonyHorse

Um, excuse me mr. police officer, weren't you speeding to catch up with me? Got ya!  Ha ha!

[JuneJuly 193]

I guess I shouldn't be shocked the self proclaimed party of intelligence doesn't want to (can't) discuss policy. 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

Just now, JuneJuly said:

I guess I shouldn't be shocked the self proclaimed party of intelligence doesn't want to (can't) discuss policy. 

Do you want to discuss tariffs and who pays the tariff?

[JuneJuly 193]

18 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Do you want to discuss tariffs and who pays the tariff?

Sure.  And we will start with the premise you have in your head: The consumer is going to end up paying.  I agree with that, the consumer always ends up paying the increase cost for materials, production or increased tax(tariff).  For example, raising the minimum wage.  Or imposing higher tax on companies and corporations.

But that's simplistic and missing some of the nuance on the global market stage.  Putting a tariff on something that is cheaper in China doesn't necessarily trickle all that cost down to the consumer.  Why? Because if the cost of the same product from a different country (or making it in the US) is cheaper than China plus the tariff then China is forced to absorb some of that cost in order to remain competitive on the global marker.  Otherwise we will buy it from another country (or make it ourselves). 

Yes the price of goods go up in the scenario above, however, it's not a direct "sales tax" if done strategically and it damages China.  China is not our friend.  And any of the goods produced on the global market that switch to being made in America the cost goes directly back into American jobs, American wages and American corporations.  Any goods we purchase from other companies benefit allies and not China.

All the while the tariffs we do collect, mainly from China, goes directly into the government coffers resulting in lowering the US dept.  It's a balance for sure, but, if done strategically tariffs can be used to better America's interest.

 

[purdygood 334]

Just now, JuneJuly said:

Sure.  And we will start with the premise you have in your head: The consumer is going to end up paying.  I agree with that, the consumer always ends up paying the increase cost for materials, production or increased tax(tariff).  For example, raising the minimum wage.  Or imposing higher tax on companies and corporations.

But that's simplistic and missing some of the nuance on the global market stage.  Putting a tariff on something that is cheaper in China doesn't necessarily trickle all that cost down to the consumer.  Why? Because if the cost of the same product from a different country (or making it in the US) is cheaper than China plus the tariff then China is forced to absorb some of that cost in order to remain competitive on the global marker.  Otherwise we will buy it from another country (or make it ourselves). 

Yes the price of goods go up in the scenario above, however, it's not a direct "sales tax" if done strategically and it damages China.  China is not our friend.  And any of the goods produced on the global market that switch to being made in America the cost goes directly back into American jobs, American wages and American corporations.  Any goods we purchase from other companies benefit allies and not China.

All the while the tariffs we do collect, mainly from China, goes directly into the government coffers resulting in lowering the US dept.  It's a balance for sure, but, if done strategically tariffs can be used to better America's interest.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say about China (F em) but I don't agree Tariffs will solve the problem.  The majority of the toilet paper bought in America comes from China. A new toilet paper plant isn't gonna spring up over night in Kansas. So in the short term we are ALL going to pay more for toilet paper. (Trump maybeeeee has 4 years left, he hella old) And the amount of "crap" I see spewed around here.  That's gonna get costly if Trump wins.

[The Psychic Observer 496]

9 minutes ago, JuneJuly said:

Sure.  And we will start with the premise you have in your head: The consumer is going to end up paying.  I agree with that, the consumer always ends up paying the increase cost for materials, production or increased tax(tariff).  For example, raising the minimum wage.  Or imposing higher tax on companies and corporations.

But that's simplistic and missing some of the nuance on the global market stage.  Putting a tariff on something that is cheaper in China doesn't necessarily trickle all that cost down to the consumer.  Why? Because if the cost of the same product from a different country (or making it in the US) is cheaper than China plus the tariff then China is forced to absorb some of that cost in order to remain competitive on the global marker.  Otherwise we will buy it from another country (or make it ourselves). 

Yes the price of goods go up in the scenario above, however, it's not a direct "sales tax" if done strategically and it damages China.  China is not our friend.  And any of the goods produced on the global market that switch to being made in America the cost goes directly back into American jobs, American wages and American corporations.  Any goods we purchase from other companies benefit allies and not China.

All the while the tariffs we do collect, mainly from China, goes directly into the government coffers resulting in lowering the US dept.  It's a balance for sure, but, if done strategically tariffs can be used to better America's interest.

 

China pays the tariff?  As in the govt of China pays the US Govt the tariff?

[seafoam1 2,803]

Just now, The Psychic Observer said:

China pays the tariff?  As in the govt of China pays the US Govt the tariff?

Wow you are stupid. 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

Wow you are stupid. 

Enough with the character attacks and memes?

[JuneJuly 193]

2 minutes ago, purdygood said:

I agree with a lot of what you say about China (F em) but I don't agree Tariffs will solve the problem.  The majority of the toilet paper bought in America comes from China. A new toilet paper plant isn't gonna spring up over night in Kansas. So in the short term we are ALL going to pay more for toilet paper. (Trump maybeeeee has 4 years left, he hella old) And the amount of "crap" I see spewed around here.  That's gonna get costly if Trump wins.

Thinking one political policy is going to solve all the issues we have with China production of low cost goods is pretty short sighted.  Note that I said, "It's a balance for sure, but, if done strategically tariffs can be used to better America's interest."

[purdygood 334]

Just now, JuneJuly said:

Thinking one political policy is going to solve all the issues we have with China production of low cost goods is pretty short sighted.  Note that I said, "It's a balance for sure, but, if done strategically tariffs can be used to better America's interest."

Agreed.  Sorry for being a little snarky.

[JuneJuly 193]

10 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

China pays the tariff?  As in the govt of China pays the US Govt the tariff?

I don't think it's worth distinguishing the difference between the China government and China corporations.  But yes, China is forced to absorb some of the cost of the tariffs in the cost of their goods for the reasons I listed.  That's what I wrote.

[The Psychic Observer 496]

1 minute ago, JuneJuly said:

I don't think it's worth distinguishing the difference between the China government and China corporations.  But yes, China is forced to absorb some of the cost of the tariffs for the reasons I listed.  That's what I wrote.

Well let me be clear because there is much confusion.  The Chinese government or manufacturer of the good does not pay anything to the US govt.  The tariff is paid for by the importer, the entity importing the goods to the US.  The importer can 1) absorb the cost 2) Increase the price of the good to the consumer and/or 3) negotiate with the exporter (China in this case) on a lower selling price.  Historically it has been some combination of all three.  What we saw with the Trump tariffs is that 100% of the tariff was passed to the consumer and sometimes it's even more.  The clothes washing machine tariff saw prices increase by more than Trump's tariff.  Same with solar panels.

I explain this because Donald Trump doesn't understand this and my assumption is people who support tariffs do not understand this either.

[JuneJuly 193]

5 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Well let me be clear because there is much confusion.  The Chinese government or manufacturer of the good does not pay anything to the US govt.  The tariff is paid for by the importer, the entity importing the goods to the US.  The importer can 1) absorb the cost 2) Increase the price of the good to the consumer and/or 3) negotiate with the exporter (China in this case) on a lower selling price.  Historically it has been some combination of all three.  What we saw with the Trump tariffs is that 100% of the tariff was passed to the consumer and sometimes it's even more.  The clothes washing machine tariff saw prices increase by more than Trump's tariff.  Same with solar panels.

I explain this because Donald Trump doesn't understand this and my assumption is people who support tariffs do not understand this either.

#3

And it's not necessarily a negotiation.  The global market would adjust, China adjusting prices, if they want to sell us their steel.  Example simplified:

China cost of steel $2.00 ton.

India cost of steel $2.40 ton.

We suddenly put a 25% tariff on China steel. It now costs $2.50 a ton to buy steel from China.  China would have to reduce their $2.00 cost or corporations in the US would start buying steel from India because it's cheaper.

 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

7 minutes ago, JuneJuly said:

#3

And it's not necessarily a negotiation.  The global market would adjust, China adjusting prices, if they want to sell us their steel.  Example simplified:

China cost of steel $2.00 ton.

India cost of steel $2.40 ton.

We suddenly put a 25% tariff on China steel. It now costs $2.50 a ton to buy steel from China.  China would have to reduce their $2.00 cost or corporations in the US would start buying steel from India because it's cheaper.

 

It is not that simple when you consider logistics and supply chains along with the global market supply and demand.  Theoretically yes.

A 10% or more across the board tariff does not factor in any of the complex issues and will most assuredly result in higher prices for all of us at least in the short term.

I believe in free and fair trade using tariffs only as a last resort to maintain fairness where outside influence contradicts. 

 

[JuneJuly 193]

Just now, The Psychic Observer said:

It is not that simple when you consider logistics and supply chains along with the global market supply and demand.  Theoretically yes.

A 10% or more across the board tariff does not factor in any of the complex issues and will most assuredly result in higher prices for all of us at least in the short term.

I believe in free and fair trade using tariffs only as a last resort to maintain fairness where outside influence contradicts. 

 

I said "example simplified" and used a most basic example just to make sure we understood each other.  Note that the cost per ton is landed and contracts account for price fluctuations.  It's not a valid argument to say it's more complex than that while simultaneously stating that it "most assuredly" would result in anything.

We can leave it at you believe tariffs should only be a last resort and I believe they should be used to our full advantage.