Trump vs the Judges

[Fnord 2,272]

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Well, to be fair, this is the crux of the argument - Biden set the precedent.  Just like he did with the student loans and pardons.

Now, when Trump does the exact same thing the left loses their bacon.  You're going to have a hard time convincing people when the left has been doing it the entire time.  Why wasn't Democracy so "on the line" when Biden was doing it?   And where were the lefty critics decrying "the end of Democracy"?

You know as well as I do that this argument is disingenuous. We both know and understand that there is nothing in US history remotely comparable to what Trump is doing now. So throwing around Biden whatabouts is just a convenient way of dodging a discussion of the issues. Many, many issues.

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

I see you also can't comprehend hyperbole.  No, renaming the Gulf of Mexico doesn't give him more executive power either.

But are you seriously going to argue that Trump has not taken steps to accumulate and consolidate executive power?  We were just talking about the ICA which is a clear indication of this if I need to refresh your memory.

Hyperbole?   Nice diving fail.

This ICA activity would increase his powers, but there is that little problem of his effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education that more than offset it.  And realize that the ICA "increase in powers" is in the context of cutting, not adding, which would have the end effect of reducing the Executive Branch power.

HTH

[RLLD 4,230]

5 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

I'm gonna keep calling you a liar every time you say this, liar.

Of course....of course.....its not like you have the ability to admit when you are wrong, let alone when you have been caught lying. I get it....

[RLLD 4,230]

5 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

No you haven't, you just keep repeating your lie.

Its not really "my lie" so much as the reported behaviors of the president, so there is that.  You can hate the messenger I guess, if that soothes you 

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I asked yesterday and don't recall a response.  Is an effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education consistent with accumulating executive power?

Of course it is IF all those agencies are tied to congressional authority rather than Presidential authority, which is exactly the case. 

[TrailGuy 554]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Hyperbole?   Nice diving fail.

This ICA activity would increase his powers, but there is that little problem of his effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education that more than offset it.  And realize that the ICA "increase in powers" is in the context of cutting, not adding, which would have the end effect of reducing the Executive Branch power.

HTH

Diving Fail? 

The ICA route is the checks and balance route.  It's what our country is founded on.  What he's doing is ignoring the checks and balances and doing whatever he wants by just freezing spending.  You're in a circular argument because here is where you go back to the deep staters. 

 

[TrailGuy 554]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Of course....of course.....its not like you have the ability to admit when you are wrong, let alone when you have been caught lying. I get it....

It's real simple boyo.  Point out where Biden defied the SCOTUS order not to use the HEROES Act to reduce Student Aid and I will admit I am wrong.

If you can't, then admit you are wrong.

It's really black and white at this point.

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

Elon Musk tweeted this morning: 

Democracy is being destroyed by judicial coup. An activist judge is not a real judge. 
 

This appears to be an invitation to President Trump to break the law. Curious if you guys agree with these comments? 

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

Diving Fail? 

The ICA route is the checks and balance route.  It's what our country is founded on.  What he's doing is ignoring the checks and balances and doing whatever he wants by just freezing spending.  You're in a circular argument because here is where you go back to the deep staters. 

 

I'll just keep copying and pasting it until you acknowledge it:

This ICA activity would increase his powers, but there is that little problem of his effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education that more than offset it.  And realize that the ICA "increase in powers" is in the context of cutting, not adding, which would have the end effect of reducing the Executive Branch power.

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, jerryskids said:

I'll just keep copying and pasting it until you acknowledge it:

This ICA activity would increase his powers, but there is that little problem of his effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education that more than offset it.  And realize that the ICA "increase in powers" is in the context of cutting, not adding, which would have the end effect of reducing the Executive Branch power.

You don't have the intelligence to understand the ICA and I'm running out of patience to keep explaining it to you.  If you're just going to not read what I post and just keep copying and pasting we will never get anywhere.

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

An activist judge is not a real judge…

The implicit argument here is that if I don’t agree with a judge’s decision it is not legitimate. 

Shouldn’t I regard this statement as a full on frontal attack against our system of government? 

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

An activist judge is not a real judge…

The implicit argument here is that if I don’t agree with a judge’s decision it is not legitimate. 

Shouldn’t I regard this statement as a full on frontal attack against our system of government? 

If you've seen what Musk has done to date and what his tech bros believe, yes it's an attack on our government.

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

You don't have the intelligence to understand the ICA and I'm running out of patience to keep explaining it to you.  If you're just going to not read what I post and just keep copying and pasting we will never get anywhere.

You said everything he is doing.  I pointed out the majority of things are in fact the opposite.  You claim hyperbole and ignore my points.

You're right, one of us is struggling on this.  Carry on.

[TrailGuy 554]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You said everything he is doing.  I pointed out the majority of things are in fact the opposite.  You claim hyperbole and ignore my points.

You're right, one of us is struggling on this.  Carry on.

Yes I said everything, yes it was hyperbole.  If you need me to be literal than I will say "many things".

This is one thing.  Ignoring the ICA which is the checks and balance component of govt, Trump is freezing all spending.  By doing this he is grabbing power he doesn't have.  This would be an accumulation of power if we let him get away with it.  Do you understand this?

[jerryskids 6,799]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Of course it is IF all those agencies are tied to congressional authority rather than Presidential authority, which is exactly the case. 

How does cutting funding for LGBTQ operas overseas increase his power?

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, jerryskids said:

How does cutting funding for LGBTQ operas overseas increase his power?

Because he doesn't have the power to do it, so by doing it he's increasing his power

[jerryskids 6,799]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

Yes I said everything, yes it was hyperbole.  If you need me to be literal than I will say "many things".

This is one thing.  Ignoring the ICA which is the checks and balance component of govt, Trump is freezing all spending.  By doing this he is grabbing power he doesn't have.  This would be an accumulation of power if we let him get away with it.  Do you understand this?

Yes, I understand this.  I already said it.  His effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education reduce his power.  The end effect of his attempted coup on the ICA restrictions is to further continue the efforts I listed, which further reduces his power.  

Do you understand these?

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Yes, I understand this.  I already said it.  His effort to majorly cut funding, reduce headcount, and eliminate entire departments like Education reduce his power.  The end effect of his attempted coup on the ICA restrictions is to further continue the efforts I listed, which further reduces his power.  

Do you understand these?

No I don't.  Please explain how the existence of the department of education increases the power of the president?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

30 minutes ago, Fnord said:

You know as well as I do that this argument is disingenuous. We both know and understand that there is nothing in US history remotely comparable to what Trump is doing now. So throwing around Biden whatabouts is just a convenient way of dodging a discussion of the issues. Many, many issues.

I think you're the one that's being disingenuous.  It's always different when your side of the aisle is doing it.

Most people aren't buying that argument and for good reason.  

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

No I don't.  Please explain how the existence of the department of education increases the power of the president?

@jerryskids argument here is specious. It makes no sense. Trump is not cutting any of his own power; he is cutting Congress’ power. That increases his power. At the same time he is hiring sycophants in every position of importance. 

[TrailGuy 554]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

@jerryskids argument here is specious. It makes no sense. Trump is not cutting any of his own power; he is cutting Congress’ power. That increases his power. At the same time he is hiring sycophants in every position of importance. 

Yeah I know I just wanted to see him hang himself further 

[jerryskids 6,799]

6 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

No I don't.  Please explain how the existence of the department of education increases the power of the president?

The Department of Education is a cabinet-level agency which falls under the POTUS.  To eliminate it is to reduce the size and scope of POTUS control.  Not sure what you're asking.   

[jbycho 754]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

@jerryskids argument here is specious. It makes no sense. Trump is not cutting any of his own power; he is cutting Congress’ power. That increases his power. At the same time he is hiring sycophants in every position of importance. 

Ok. Now what are you gonna do? 

I'm enjoying getting what I voted for. 

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, jerryskids said:

The Department of Education is a cabinet-level agency which falls under the POTUS.  To eliminate it is to reduce the size and scope of POTUS control.  Not sure what you're asking.   

It's funded by Congress.  

[jerryskids 6,799]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

@jerryskids argument here is specious. It makes no sense. Trump is not cutting any of his own power; he is cutting Congress’ power. That increases his power. At the same time he is hiring sycophants in every position of importance. 

 

Just now, jerryskids said:

The Department of Education is a cabinet-level agency which falls under the POTUS.  To eliminate it is to reduce the size and scope of POTUS control.  Not sure what you're asking.   

How does this increase Trump's power?  I suspect you are saying that he is trying to unilaterally eliminate a cabinet organization (he can't, BTW) which was established by Congress, and if successful, would set a precedent where he could just, I dunno, eliminate everything and become dictator?  That's squissy-level stuff there, but I'm trying to figure out your angle.   

[jerryskids 6,799]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

It's funded by Congress.  

And resides under him.  Look, two laugh emojis, yahtzee$#@!  

 

[The Girlfriend 209]

18 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

The Department of Education is a cabinet-level agency which falls under the POTUS.  To eliminate it is to reduce the size and scope of POTUS control.  Not sure what you're asking.   

This may be the dumbest take I’ve ever read. Congrats Jerry.

[jonmx 2,429]

2 hours ago, TrailGuy said:

He is interpreting the United States Constitution. 

 

 

His order is about as Constitutiinal as an insurrection. 

[jonmx 2,429]

21 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

How does this increase Trump's power?  I suspect you are saying that he is trying to unilaterally eliminate a cabinet organization (he can't, BTW) which was established by Congress, and if successful, would set a precedent where he could just, I dunno, eliminate everything and become dictator?  That's squissy-level stuff there, but I'm trying to figure out your angle.   

It increases the President's power by decreasing the power of the deep state.  So many people bootlick for the authoritarianism of the deep state.  They literally hate the idea of a country with free citizens.  

[jerryskids 6,799]

10 minutes ago, The Girlfriend said:

This may be the dumbest take I’ve ever read. Congrats Jerry.

Insightful as always, KoL!

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

57 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

An activist judge is not a real judge…

The implicit argument here is that if I don’t agree with a judge’s decision it is not legitimate. 

Shouldn’t I regard this statement as a full on frontal attack against our system of government? 

 

38 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

It's funded by Congress.  

What isn’t ? 

[TrailGuy 554]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 

What isn’t ? 

That's the point pothead  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

That's the point pothead  

Why would you have to point out that something is funded by congress whrn everything is ? It’s funny when you think you’ve made a substantive point. Highly educated! 

[The Girlfriend 209]

DEEP STATE!#$#%!  

[TrailGuy 554]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why would you have to point out that something is funded by congress whrn everything is ? It’s funny when you think you’ve made a substantive point. Highly educated! 

Who's gonna tell him...

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

Who's gonna tell him...

Tell me.  All spending comes from congress. Full stop. 

[The Girlfriend 209]

21 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

Who's gonna tell him...

[The Girlfriend 209]

We really could use an ouroboros emoji.

[Fnord 2,272]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I think you're the one that's being disingenuous.  It's always different when your side of the aisle is doing it.

Most people aren't buying that argument and for good reason.  

I am not nor have I ever been interested in defending the shitty things Biden did. I am not a Democrat, and never wanted him or Kamala in the WH for any reason other than they were not Trump.

We have established that you and I are not going to agree on things like Donald Trump's actual criminality, or Democratic weaponization of DOJ, and that's fine. But holding up an example of what Biden did with student loans (which I disagreed with overall) to what Trump is doing now just does not compute with me. Trump is bashing at key governmental departments and systems with a sledgehammer, which in many cases he likely does not have the authority to do. Much of what he claims he is doing is laudable. Nobody likes waste/fraud in government. The issue, again, is how he is going about it, and what consequences will arise. No other POTUS has ever done anything remotely close to it.

If one honestly cares about separation of powers, legality, checks and balances, etc. Trump's actions are pretty damn hard to defend. Which is why, mostly, people are just throwing around whatabouts. That's why I appreciated @Hot Rod's posts (assuming he's not just trolling). Because they were honest. He seemingly understands where we're headed. I think a great many Trump voters have not come to that realization yet, and when they do I hope they are intellectually honest enough to admit that either they were wrong for voting for him, or that ultimately they feel that having an authoritarian leader is worth it to combat those dirty libs.

[RLLD 4,230]

1 hour ago, TrailGuy said:

It's real simple boyo.  Point out where Biden defied the SCOTUS order not to use the HEROES Act to reduce Student Aid and I will admit I am wrong.

If you can't, then admit you are wrong.

It's really black and white at this point.

I already pointed out Biden defying SCOTUS in my post, I bolded it in fact.  Your active avoidance of it is telling.