The Real timschochet 6,770 Posted April 16 14 minutes ago, Voltaire said: The guy is an El Salvadoran in El Salvador. That's quite convenient isn't it? Double check his claims and if he's not actually a gang member, let him walk out of the prison. If he were a different nationality, a Honduran (for example), a bus ticket to Honduras would be appropriate. This 'return to the US' stuff is whack. It isn’t. He has to be returned to the US. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 29 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: It isn’t. He has to be returned to the US. no he doesn't El Salvador has absolutely no reason to give one of their citizens to the United States. There isn't an extradition prescribed to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,770 Posted April 16 1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: no he doesn't El Salvador has absolutely no reason to give one of their citizens to the United States. There isn't an extradition prescribed to this The law is the law. We need to do everything we can to get him back. If El Salvador doesn’t agree, cut off their aid. They’ll agree quickly, Honestly you’ve been embarrassing yourself all day with your arguments on this issue. You’re just completely wrong; so is the Trump Administration, but they know they’re wrong. They’re doing it as a test case to see how far they can get away with subverting the Constitution. That’s their excuse; not sure what yours is. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree of Knowledge 1,859 Posted April 16 Maybe we can trade the El Salvador version of the Merchant of Death for this guy’s freedom? Derrrr. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: The law is the law. We need to do everything we can to get him back. If El Salvador doesn’t agree, cut off their aid. They’ll agree quickly, Honestly you’ve been embarrassing yourself all day with your arguments on this issue. You’re just completely wrong; so is the Trump Administration, but they know they’re wrong. They’re doing it as a test case to see how far they can get away with subverting the Constitution. That’s their excuse; not sure what yours is. My excuse is I don’t care if an illegal is deported back to their country. At all. Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: My excuse is I don’t care if an illegal is deported back to their country. At all. Ever It’s not really about that. It’s about the slippery slope this is creating, 1) by the Trump admin blatantly defying the Supreme Court (despite trying to claim they ruled in their favor, lol), and 2) setting a precedent that they can just deport anyone (possibly even a US citizen), and once they are out of the country just say “sorry, it’s out of our hands now!” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Psychic Observer 498 Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: My excuse is I don’t care if an illegal is deported back to their country. At all. Ever What about being sent to life in prison with no due process? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, TimHauck said: It’s not really about that. It’s about the slippery slope this is creating, 1) by the Trump admin blatantly defying the Supreme Court (despite trying to claim they ruled in their favor, lol), and 2) setting a precedent that they can just deport anyone (possibly even a US citizen), and once they are out of the country just say “sorry, it’s out of our hands now!” Don’t care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: Don’t care. The “most centrist poster here,” ladies and gentlemen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said: What about being sent to life in prison with no due process? He had due process. He had deportation papers. He entered the country illegally. Then years later tried to claim asylum. Alien invasion act supersedes love level judge. Oh well. He’s an el Salvadoran. He’s now back in his homeland. He can deal with his countries legalities. Not our problem how other countries punish their citizens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 @RaiderHaters Revenge, will you admit that Stephen Miller blatantly misrepresented the Supreme Court decision? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, TimHauck said: The “most centrist poster here,” ladies and gentlemen Yep absolutely. My stance has never changed. You come to the country illegally you get deported. Period. Why don’t you go cry about the only good thing Obama did. You know. Deport the most people in history. I supported him on that issue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, TimHauck said: @RaiderHaters Revenge, will you admit that Stephen Miller blatantly misrepresented the Supreme Court decision? Sure you got me. Again don’t care Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engorgeous George 2,331 Posted April 16 7 hours ago, TimHauck said: @Engorgeous George, do you think Garcia’a family could have a defamation case against people like JD Vance stating definitively he is a gang member, or Stephen Miller saying “I promise you if he was your neighbor you’d move right away”? He can try. The law does grant a great deal of leeway, a partial privilege really in matters of public interest, and this would be one such matter. I have no reason to believe he would be successful if he tried. I can think of no analogous case being successful. That said, civil torts was not really my area of practice. Also, if I recall defamation is a personal action not one carrying over to family. I don't recall too many suits being successful by family members even for disparaging inaccurately, unfairly, and with intent to injure the recently deceased. I am fairly certain that in this political and legal environment his family could find a lawyer to bringa case not for defamation per se, but for intentional infliction of emotional distress. Such a suit might even find a judge willing to allow it to go forward. On apeal such a suit would run into trouble as government officials are allowed to debate the important issues of the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Psychic Observer 498 Posted April 16 7 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: He had due process. He had deportation papers. He entered the country illegally. Then years later tried to claim asylum. Alien invasion act supersedes love level judge. Oh well. He’s an el Salvadoran. He’s now back in his homeland. He can deal with his countries legalities. Not our problem how other countries punish their citizens. If he received due process then tell me what he was charged with, found guilty of, and sentenced to life in prison? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 7 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said: He can try. The law does grant a great deal of leeway, a partial privilege really in matters of public interest, and this would be one such matter. I have no reason to believe he would be successful if he tried. I can think of no analogous case being successful. E Jean Carroll? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engorgeous George 2,331 Posted April 16 4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: The law is the law. We need to do everything we can to get him back. If El Salvador doesn’t agree, cut off their aid. They’ll agree quickly, Honestly you’ve been embarrassing yourself all day with your arguments on this issue. You’re just completely wrong; so is the Trump Administration, but they know they’re wrong. They’re doing it as a test case to see how far they can get away with subverting the Constitution. That’s their excuse; not sure what yours is. I have no reason to believe that 'facilitate" means "do everything we can". Had the Court meant "do everything within the Administration's power" they could easily have so said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engorgeous George 2,331 Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, TimHauck said: E Jean Carroll? It is fine with me if his family tries. All I will say about the E. Jean Carroll matter is that in the law there are always outlier cases, exceptional cases that come to have little or no precedential value. I suspect hers is one such case. The results of individual lawsuits, individual verdicts are not particularly precedential, appealate ruling s are more so, but even those on unusual or outlier caseddo not govern matterds. Still, a good thought by you. if an attorney was trying to make the case you are hoping to make thye may well trot out that case as an example in support of their suit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,351 Posted April 16 14 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said: If he received due process then tell me what he was charged with, found guilty of, and sentenced to life in prison? He was deported. What El Salvador does with their citizens is up to them. He was illegally in this country Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Psychic Observer 498 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: He was deported. What El Salvador does with their citizens is up to them. He was illegally in this country He was legally in this country according to 2019 judicial ruling. He was not deported, he was sent to prison. Facts matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 5 hours ago, Voltaire said: The guy is an El Salvadoran in El Salvador. That's quite convenient isn't it? Double check his claims and if he's not actually a gang member, let him walk out of the prison. If he were a different nationality, a Honduran (for example), a bus ticket to Honduras would be appropriate. This 'return to the US' stuff is whack. I’m sure most here would say they don’t care, but I am curious about this. The El Salvador president has said he won’t release him because he did such as good job making his county safer. But what grounds does the country he is a citizen of have to keep him imprisoned? Even if he is proven to be in a gang, is that a crime on its own? If anything, if El Salvador is afraid of this “dangerous terrorist,” they should want him out of their country if another country is actually requesting him. Unless they’re afraid he’ll try to pull some Con Air stuff and hijack the plane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 17 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: He was deported. What El Salvador does with their citizens is up to them. He was illegally in this country A centrist should care about the precedent this sets, IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree of Knowledge 1,859 Posted April 16 So we have officially pivoted to Trump is deporting everyone from Trump is crashing the economy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 37 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said: He was legally in this country according to 2019 judicial ruling. He was not deported, he was sent to prison. Facts matter. Possible life sentence for standing outside of a Home Depot looking for day labor, and people are celebrating it. What a time to be alive 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellToupee 1,779 Posted April 16 1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said: Sure you got me. Again don’t care He’s the gotcha guy. That’s his schtick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Psychic Observer 498 Posted April 16 23 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said: So we have officially pivoted to Trump is deporting everyone from Trump is crashing the economy He can do both at the same time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 20 minutes ago, HellToupee said: He’s the gotcha guy. That’s his schtick @RaiderHaters Revenge literally asked for someone to point out where Miller was wrong, so I did. Not my fault you guys believe everything you read/hear from your biased sources Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted April 16 2 hours ago, Engorgeous George said: He can try. The law does grant a great deal of leeway, a partial privilege really in matters of public interest, and this would be one such matter. I have no reason to believe he would be successful if he tried. I can think of no analogous case being successful. That said, civil torts was not really my area of practice. Also, if I recall defamation is a personal action not one carrying over to family. I don't recall too many suits being successful by family members even for disparaging inaccurately, unfairly, and with intent to injure the recently deceased. I am fairly certain that in this political and legal environment his family could find a lawyer to bringa case not for defamation per se, but for intentional infliction of emotional distress. Such a suit might even find a judge willing to allow it to go forward. On apeal such a suit would run into trouble as government officials are allowed to debate the important issues of the day. The Sandy Hook defamation case against Alex Jones would qualify, I think. (Not that I think this hypothetical case is analogous and would be successful). https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/12/alex-jones-sandy-hook-shooting/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted April 16 2 hours ago, TimHauck said: A centrist should care about the precedent this sets, IMO I do care. It tells illegals they better be very careful when invading another country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted April 16 2 hours ago, The Psychic Observer said: He was legally in this country according to 2019 judicial ruling. He was not deported, he was sent to prison. Facts matter. No he wasn't. That court order simply said we couldn't send him to El Salvador. We could absolutely have sent him to a third party country LEGALLY but chose not to. That doesn't mean he was here legally. It means the previous administration was ok with illegals overrunning our country. But this guy had an undisputed final order of removal. The ONLY thing we did wrong in this case was send him to El Salvador. We could have sent hm to Afghanistan LEGALLY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 754 Posted April 16 1 hour ago, TimHauck said: @RaiderHaters Revenge literally asked for someone to point out where Miller was wrong, so I did. Not my fault you guys believe everything you read/hear from your biased sources Well tell us oh timpee guy, where did you learn this "truth" of yours? Did you read/hear it from somewhere? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, Strike said: I do care. It tells illegals they better be very careful when invading another country. It also says the President doesn’t have to listen to the Supreme Court Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 Just now, jbycho said: Well tell timpee guy, where did you learn this "truth"? Did you read/hear it from somewhere? The Supreme Court decision Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, Strike said: No he wasn't. That court order simply said we couldn't send him to El Salvador. We could absolutely have sent him to a third party country LEGALLY but chose not to. That doesn't mean he was here legally. It means the previous administration was ok with illegals overrunning our country. But this guy had an undisputed final order of removal. The ONLY thing we did wrong in this case was send him to El Salvador. We could have sent hm to Afghanistan LEGALLY. Who was President in 2019 again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 754 Posted April 16 1 minute ago, TimHauck said: The Supreme Court decision You were in the court? And you heard it in person? And you interpreted it based on what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,877 Posted April 16 Just now, jbycho said: You were in the court? And you heard it in person? No, but they published it and I can read, unlike @Strike, @RaiderHaters Revenge, and Stephen Miller 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted April 16 Just now, TimHauck said: Who was President in 2019 again? You want me to defend Trump on this. Not gonna happen. I believe any President should protect our borders. I believe Trump tried but surrounded himself with deep state people in his first term that hindered what he would like to do. So this time he went outside the deep state with his picks and is quickly and decisively enacting his agenda. But for whatever reason he didn't do as much as he could have in his first term on certain issues, and I won't defend that. No gotcha here, sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, TimHauck said: It also says the President doesn’t have to listen to the Supreme Court You talking about Biden? I thought we were talking about Trump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 754 Posted April 16 4 minutes ago, TimHauck said: No, but they published it and I can read, unlike @Strike, @RaiderHaters Revenge, and Stephen Miller So you read it. you are so dumb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
