NPR story on DEI and how 2600 DEI workers have been fired

[jerryskids 6,617]

19 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Equity does not necessarily mean equal outcomes. That is not how these programs work, in my experience at least. It's about fairness, and making sure everyone has equal opportunity. From there it's on the individual to stand up and stand out. If they don't, they will not advance or be fired. 

Re: bolded. Any company that has that attitude can fuk right off. I find it hard to believe that they even exist, but assuming they do, it makes me even more grateful for where I work. Equal opportunity to get your foot in the door, then it's up to you to shine.

 

7 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Wrong, equity has nothing about being owed you dummy, it's about outcomes and recognizing that people are different and need different support to achieve equal outcomes.  But RT is not going to explain this to you.

I dumbed it down for you first.

Hey gutter, is equity about outcomes or not?

[squistion 2,016]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

The NFL, there is no rule against having a black coach right?  Any black person can apply to be a coach right?  Well why didn't we have more black coaches?  So the NFL put in the Rooney rule to give more black coaches opportunities.  Does that mean a black coach can't get a job?  Is it racist?  Possibly especially when you have the same Deny Greens and Todd Bowles brought in for every opening knowing they wouldn't get jobs, but it also got Mike Tomlin his job and probably others.  Guys that might have never even got an opportunity were passed by.

So yeah there is value.

And despite what we have heard in this forum, the Rooney Rule is not DEI.

No team is required to hire a black coach, just interview one or more before they make their hire. Even if it is just a formality and they aren't hired, they may impress someone in the interview process that they are kept in mind for some future coaching position. 

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

 

I dumbed it down for you first.

Hey gutter, is equity about outcomes or not?

In my opinion it does.  I look forward to you making this a semantics argument instead of actually have a real discussion.  It's what you've devolved into.

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

3 minutes ago, squistion said:

And despite what we have heard in this forum, the Rooney Rule is not DEI.

No team is required to hire a black coach, just interview one or more before they make their hire. Even if it is just a formality and they aren't hired, they may impress someone in the interview process that they are kept in mind for some future coaching position. 

DEI is not about requiring a company to hire black people either.  I would argue the Rooney rule is DEI because it's giving more opportunity to black coaches where they have historically had very little.  The downside is that if a team has a coach all set to hire, they still have to hire 2 black coaches which is degrading for them.  It could use some tweaking.

[Strike 5,307]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

A "fair shake" is equality.  @Ron_Artestsaid upthread, and since your post has repeated, that the goal of DEI is equity, which is equal outcomes.

Keep in mind that in some cultural circles, things like timeliness and math are racist.  So we'll just have to work around those inconveniences to change the way we do successful business.  Also to build bridges that don't collapse.   

Come on Jerry.  You have to get with it.  In schools, they're starting to implement "grading for equity" where attendance doesn't matter, homework doesn't matter, and you can get a C with a score of 41%:

https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-public-schools-equity-homework-2078003

What could go wrong?

[nobody 2,615]

3 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Would you say that before the rise of DEI that women and minorities got “equal chances” in the corporate world?

Fock no.  The c-suite is all about networking.  And it's not just minorities and women.  It's anyone who doesn't have the secret handshake. 

But the way it's addressed is broken.  Two problems 

1. As usual, the leadership team attached a metric to the goal, and as usual crappy managers managed to the metric instead of using the metric to help manage to the goal.  By that I mean, instead of going back and saying, "we didn't hit our number because we didn't find the right candidates for the job," and then have the exec team help find candidates or help managers reset expectations if too high.  They hire anyone with a pulse to hit the metric. 

2. In typical sociopathic executive behavior, they try to solve a problem that exists with themselves by forcing the people below them to fix the problem as if it's with them.  Like when a ceo gets caught lying or plagarizing  or sexually harassing, all the employees have to take training.  Like bro, you're the shìtbag that needs course correcting.  Not us.  As it pertains to hiring, managers just want work done.  There probably is bias from all races and genders, but in general no one is passing up a quality candidate.  Execs though.  That shìt used to be a good ole boys club.  You had to be cut from that cloth meaning white male with exec style hair and background to be in that world.  

So their sins as usual were projected onto the masses, and HR who is typically incompetent was giving this task to achieve "diversity" which of course was done in the most incompetent way.  The right way to do it would be to have a paid internship to train people how to do the jobs and then hire them.  You don't just go hire unqualified people that check a box which is what is happening.

And I know you're going to say this isn't happening, but I interview people as part of my job.  If I need to turn down a minority/women or god forbid a minority woman candidate I have to get interrogated on why, so I know exactly how it works.  I'm in these rooms and I'm in these conversations.  And I'm not an isolated case.

[nobody 2,615]

I interview a chick on zoom a while back.  I could hear someone in the background trying to give her answers... And they were still bad.  It was clear her resume was completely made up, and on top of that, she showed charts from her last job that had company proprietary information to show what she supposedly did (she clearly didn't do any of it because she couldn't answer a single question about it)

When I rejected her as a candidate, HR called me to try to change my mind.  Then my boss.  Then HR again.  Then I had to go to a meeting with HR and my boss.  This shìt is comical.  I literally said, "this candidate clearly lied about her qualifications, and it was easily the worst interview I've ever seen." HR reponse, "well are you sure we can't hire her?" I'm like wtf?

[jerryskids 6,617]

2 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

In my opinion it does.  I look forward to you making this a semantics argument instead of actually have a real discussion.  It's what you've devolved into.

Sorry I disappeared, I'm at the Dbacks vs Pirates game.

You tried the semantics game, dummy. I'm embarrased for you that I need to waste time reminding you.

I'm fine in general with equality goals like @TimHauckquoted, things like mentoring and interviews at HBCUs. I'm against in general equity goals , things like equal representation in positions, because those put numbers ahead of quality.

then again, i worked in an engineering world, like @nobody, where people cared if planes crashed.

[jerryskids 6,617]

Hey @Ron_Artest and @Fnord, feel free to respond to the above.  I'd also appreciate your thoughts on Cornell's take on DEI for their Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology.  This is how Ivies are teaching our future leaders.  Sounds good?

Quote

Diversity and Inclusion

Antiracism Statement

As a department, we recognize both the necessity and the challenges in overcoming the systemic racism, based on racist policy, which is so pervasive in our society, our institutions, and our academic fields, and which has a major and clearly negative impact on Black and Indigenous People, and People Of Color (BIPOC). We are committed to building an antiracist agenda in our department with the core aim to root out embedded racism in all our activities, including our recruitment processes, our curricula, our social environment, and the way that our department interacts with the wider community. We understand that change needs to be real rather than aspirational, and there needs to be transparency and accountability in effecting that change. Importantly, actions must involve listening to BIPOC members of our community, and BIPOC individuals from other communities influenced by our actions, and taking decisive community-wide steps towards change. As a department, we appreciate that we have substantial work to do, but the rewards that come from positive change are very high. We are committed to investing the time and effort needed to implement these positive changes.

Land Acknowledgement

Cornell University is located on the traditional homelands of the Gayogo̱hó꞉nǫɁ (the Cayuga Nation). The Gayogo̱hó꞉nǫɁ are members of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, an alliance of six sovereign Nations with a historic and contemporary presence on this land. The Confederacy precedes the establishment of Cornell University, New York State, and the United States of America. We acknowledge the painful history of Gayogo̱hó꞉nǫɁ dispossession, and honor the ongoing connection of Gayogo̱hó꞉nǫɁ people, past and present, to these lands and waters.

The American Indian and Indigenous Studies Program (AIISP) has submitted this land acknowledgement to traditional Gayogo̱hó꞉nǫɁ leaders for their consideration and approval. We will post a final version as soon as it is available.

https://ecologyandevolution.cornell.edu/diversity-and-inclusion

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

Sounds good

[jerryskids 6,617]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Sounds good

Cool, very conservative of you.  How about my previous post?

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Sorry I disappeared, I'm at the Dbacks vs Pirates game.

You tried the semantics game, dummy. I'm embarrased for you that I need to waste time reminding you.

I'm fine in general with equality goals like @TimHauckquoted, things like mentoring and interviews at HBCUs. I'm against in general equity goals , things like equal representation in positions, because those put numbers ahead of quality.

then again, i worked in an engineering world, like @nobody, where people cared if planes crashed.

 

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

11 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Cool, very conservative of you.  How about my previous post?

 

Those numbers are goals. You're not always going to make your goal but it's good to have something to strive for.  No one likes plane crashes.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,084]

A bunch of years ago some short guys sued to get on the NYPD and won. Big fockin mistake.  

[jbycho 666]

DEI is done with. Just clean out the rest of them no matter how long it takes. 

[Fnord 2,106]

14 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I'm fine in general with equality goals like @TimHauckquoted, things like mentoring and interviews at HBCUs. I'm against in general equity goals , things like equal representation in positions, because those put numbers ahead of quality.

then again, i worked in an engineering world, like @nobody, where people cared if planes crashed.

Equal representation is stupid and companies hiring in that manner deserve the dreck employees they will ultimately hire. 

I work in health care, so, yaknow, results matter and are evaluated. What @nobody described going through is utter bullshit, and I'd be deeply unhappy if I had to deal with it. 

I'm very happy to work for a "woke" company that doesn't tie my hands in the hiring process. I interview a lot of minorities and hire some of them. There are no quotas. I evaluate on merit and personality. HR does not second guess my decisions or push minority candidates for hire, though sometimes unqualified minorities are granted interviews. They are dispositioned quickly.

[Maximum Overkill 1,825]

11 minutes ago, Fnord said:

work in health care

DEI has done a great job in giving Jobs to  blacks in the medical field. I just had an MRI, they were all rude, uninterested and sounded very uneducated. It was not a pleasant experience. Good luck finding a white employee behind the counter at your next appointment 

 

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

31 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

DEI has done a great job in giving Jobs to  blacks in the medical field. I just had an MRI, they were all rude, uninterested and sounded very uneducated. It was not a pleasant experience. Good luck finding a white employee behind the counter at your next appointment 

 

So blacks are all rude, uninterested and sound very uneducated?  That's focked up even for here.

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

49 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm very happy to work for a "woke" company that doesn't tie my hands in the hiring process. I interview a lot of minorities and hire some of them. There are no quotas. I evaluate on merit and personality. HR does not second guess my decisions or push minority candidates for hire, though sometimes unqualified minorities are granted interviews. They are dispositioned quickly.

I recently hired someone and the final 3 candidates were a mixed race woman, an south asian male and a white male.  I chose the white male because I believed him to be the most qualified

[jbycho 666]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

I recently hired someone and the final 3 candidates were a mixed race woman, an south asian male and a white male.  I chose the white male because I believed him to be the most qualified

This libtard is trying hard. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,825]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

So blacks are all rude, uninterested and sound very uneducated?  That's focked up even for here.

These people were. Am I NOT allowed to say it JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL BLACK? 

Or would you prefer that I lie and tell you that it was a wonderful experience JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK? 

Can't have it both ways sweetheart 

[Maximum Overkill 1,825]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

asian male

I would of picked the Asian. They're smart and have a wonderful work ethic  

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

These people were. Am I NOT allowed to say it JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL BLACK? 

Or would you prefer that I lie and tell you that it was a wonderful experience JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK? 

Can't have it both ways sweetheart 

You can say whatever you want.  Just know that when you show a preference for a white person in healthcare over a black person it shows what kind of person you are.

Personally I prefer caring and kind people in healthcare regardless of race.  Race doesn't have anything to do with it.

[Ron_Artest 1,183]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

I would of picked the Asian. They're smart and have a wonderful work ethic  

Race had nothing to do with my decision.  That would be illegal.   It would also make me a low character person like yourself.

[Maximum Overkill 1,825]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Race had nothing to do with my decision.  That would be illegal.   It would also make me a low character person like yourself.

That was a joke, you nerd. 

[jbycho 666]

5 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

So blacks are all rude, uninterested and sound very uneducated?  That's focked up even for here.

What's that?

The truth hurts but it needs to be said. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,084]

I can’t remember the last time I was seen by a white hetero man in the medical field. My prior PM’s were women, my new one is gay as a guy with an umbrella on fifth avenue. My surgeon was a woman, anesthesiologist was gayyy! And the nurse was black. It’s all good. Not bad for a racist , trusting all those others with your life.   

[Fnord 2,106]

3 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

DEI has done a great job in giving Jobs to  blacks in the medical field. I just had an MRI, they were all rude, uninterested and sounded very uneducated. It was not a pleasant experience. Good luck finding a white employee behind the counter at your next appointment 

 

Enjoy visiting the very finest medical facilities offered there in BFE South Carolina. Not exactly home to Johns Hopkins or the Cleveland Clinic. But hey, at least they weren't pedros, right?

[nobody 2,615]

For what it's worth, I have been in and out of the hospital over the last month taking care of an old injury, and I didn't notice any skewed demographics except 80% of the nurses seemed to be hot Asians.

But if you're being randomly assigned surgeons, doesn't that mean you have an hmo?  In which case good luck to you.  Spring for the ppo.  Even good doctors aren't necessarily awesome.  Can't imagine what a random assigned one would be like for anything more than the most routine stuff.