thegeneral 3,301 Posted Saturday at 05:55 PM Just now, Sandy Loam said: There was a security guarantee in the deal that Russia broke when it invaded Ukraine. We provided arms as we agreed to do. What makes you think Russia won't break any new deal? Any security guarantee would basically be like being in NATO to have any hope of being effective. Exactly my point. An actual agreement, like NATO membership is what prevents this. Everything else is half measures. After the invasion Biden spent the next few years crossing every redline. We expanded NATO adding countries, we allowed bombing inside Russia. The leverage we have gained is we know there is no real redline it’s all bullshit. Putin gets the land, what is left of Ukraine is on the good team and off limits.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy Loam 218 Posted Saturday at 05:58 PM 1 minute ago, thegeneral said: Exactly my point. An actual agreement, like NATO membership is what prevents this. Everything else is half measures. After the invasion Biden spent the next few years crossing every redline. We expanded NATO adding countries, we allowed bombing inside Russia. The leverage we have gained is we know there is no real redline it’s all bullshit. Putin gets the land, what is left of Ukraine is on the good team and off limits.  If it's a real security guarantee, I might be on board with that. Anything else is baloney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Saturday at 06:06 PM 6 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said: If it's a real security guarantee, I might be on board with that. Anything else is baloney. Yep.Thats the best case at this point for Ukraine IMO. They aren’t getting that land back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 07:18 PM 2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: Apparently to you real life means giving in to a murderous dictator without getting anything in return. You’re right I would suck at that. Sounds like it might be right up your alley though. Link to "nothing in return". Or any details of the discussion. You've formed your opinion without any details at all unsurprisingly. We could tell that by your posts even before the meeting happend. But back to your original question, how can you say one thing before negotiations and something else after?!?!? Look up "negotiating" in the dictionary dumbass.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 07:28 PM 1 hour ago, thegeneral said: Yep.Thats the best case at this point for Ukraine IMO. They aren’t getting that land back. Props, you're seeing through the TDS blinders most of your fellow libs have on.  You asked about Russian concessions. Putin said quite a bit about trade and partnership. That's more of a concession for us than Ukraine, but, it's more than we ever had with the previous administrations. Stopping the killing is a concession, because Putin doesn't care and I have to try and believe Tiny Z does. Look, it's a tough pill to swallow especially for the life isn't fair skyscreamers, but, you are 100% correct. Ukraine isn't getting that land back.  And whatever agreement is made Putin will 100% break it again as soon as he feels like he can get away with it. Just like he did this time under Biden.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,926 Posted Saturday at 07:34 PM 4 hours ago, Ron_Artest said: You don't think trump wants a peace prize? He says so almost every day. You think he wants to save lives? He killed people by shutting down usaid. He also took away healthcare and food. It’s the bizarre framing. Like all he cares about is getting a peace prize, and that somehow because he cuts a program that you’re going to lie to me and tell me you’ve heard of even one second before he announced he was cutting it… somehow it makes it doesn’t care about lives but other ones are more important. It’s just really weird. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Saturday at 07:35 PM 4 hours ago, Ron_Artest said: I never said that Did Biden meet with Putin while he was amassing troops on the Ukrainian border?? NO, HE SAID HE WOULDN'T TALK TO PUTIN 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 07:49 PM 10 minutes ago, cyclone24 said: It’s the bizarre framing. Like all he cares about is getting a peace prize, and that somehow because he cuts a program that you’re going to lie to me and tell me you’ve heard of even one second before he announced he was cutting it… somehow it makes it doesn’t care about lives but other ones are more important. It’s just really weird. TDS You don't want to win a prise for doing something you don't care about. It's nonsensical. It's the perfect example of the mental gymnastics these simpletons are forced to do because of But Trump! Plus he should be a shoe in already for all the lives he saved by bombing Iran.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Saturday at 07:51 PM 14 minutes ago, Horseman said: Props, you're seeing through the TDS blinders most of your fellow libs have on.  You asked about Russian concessions. Putin said quite a bit about trade and partnership. That's more of a concession for us than Ukraine, but, it's more than we ever had with the previous administrations. Stopping the killing is a concession, because Putin doesn't care and I have to try and believe Tiny Z does. Look, it's a tough pill to swallow especially for the life isn't fair skyscreamers, but, you are 100% correct. Ukraine isn't getting that land back.  And whatever agreement is made Putin will 100% break it again as soon as he feels like he can get away with it. Just like he did this time under Biden.  It’s amazing how many things you can get wrong in just a couple of posts.  First, back to your earlier post. Trump has been calling for a ceasefire for months. Twice he has given deadlines and promised sanctions. Only two days ago he threatened to walk away from the conference if a ceasefire wasn’t agreed to and threatened dire consequences. Now he says a ceasefire isn’t needed. That’s not negotiating. That’s not getting concessions. If you think it is, then you’re a moron (which I already knew).  Second yes Ukraine could and will get some of this land back, if not most of it. Thats because most of the people living there regard themselves as Ukrainians and not Russians. It will cost Russia billions to govern the Donbas which will be hostile. If we gave Ukraine our full support and placed the sanctions on Russia that Trump has promised, Ukraine would get some of that land back even now. Your assertion that they will never get it back is asinine and uninformed.  Third- why do I waste my time? Go back to your fake hot wife and your non-existent millions. This is a grownup discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 07:55 PM Just now, The Real timschochet said: It’s amazing how many things you can get wrong in just a couple of posts.  First, back to your earlier post. Trump has been calling for a ceasefire for months. Twice he has given deadlines and promised sanctions. Only two days ago he threatened to walk away from the conference if a ceasefire wasn’t agreed to and threatened dire consequences. Now he says a ceasefire isn’t needed. That’s not negotiating. That’s not getting concessions. If you think it is, then you’re a moron (which I already knew).  Second yes Ukraine could and will get some of this land back, if not most of it. Thats because most of the people living there regard themselves as Ukrainians and not Russians. It will cost Russia billions to govern the Donbas which will be hostile. If we gave Ukraine our full support and placed the sanctions on Russia that Trump has promised, Ukraine would get some of that land back even now. Your assertion that they will never get it back is asinine and uninformed.  Third- why do I waste my time? Go back to your fake hot wife and your non-existent millions. This is a grownup discussion. Nailed it. .. It's going to be a tough pill to swallow for the skyscreamers and this blowhard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 07:57 PM Weaklings get so triggered over wealthy successful people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Saturday at 08:12 PM Here is the deal proposed by Putin that Trump has told European leaders he is in favor of: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/08/16/world/trump-putin-meeting-alaska Ukraine has to give up all of Donbas, including the parts that Russia has not conquered. In return Russia will ceasefire and promise not to invade the rest of Ukraine (Putin has broken previous promises.) Zelenskyy must resign with a new election (which Russia will no doubt heavily influence in an attempt to get a pro-Putin flunky) and no NATO membership for Ukraine.  if this sounds familiar it’s because Russia has been making the same demands for over a year. They are making NO concessions. And their demand goes way beyond keeping the land that Horse’s a$$ claims they will never give up, they also get to take land they never conquered. And Trump is in favor of this and is going to pressure Zelenskyy to accept with the threat of cutting off support.  This isn’t a peace deal. It’s a surrender. But it won’t surprise me if many of you favor it. Surrender is what you guys have always wanted. If you ever need to give up your day jobs there are plenty of positions open for you in the French army. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Saturday at 08:18 PM One of the very few good things about Trump is his ability to pivot 180 degrees without any apparent loss of face or embarrassment. If Zelenskyy says no to this latest travesty of a deal, Trump can still reverse himself and lay down sanctions on Russia. If he does I will support him. I doubt he will but there’s always hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 08:30 PM 13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Here is the deal proposed by Putin that Trump has told European leaders he is in favor of: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/08/16/world/trump-putin-meeting-alaska Ukraine has to give up all of Donbas, including the parts that Russia has not conquered. In return Russia will ceasefire and promise not to invade the rest of Ukraine (Putin has broken previous promises.) Zelenskyy must resign with a new election (which Russia will no doubt heavily influence in an attempt to get a pro-Putin flunky) and no NATO membership for Ukraine.  if this sounds familiar it’s because Russia has been making the same demands for over a year. They are making NO concessions. And their demand goes way beyond keeping the land that Horse’s a$$ claims they will never give up, they also get to take land they never conquered. And Trump is in favor of this and is going to pressure Zelenskyy to accept with the threat of cutting off support.  This isn’t a peace deal. It’s a surrender. But it won’t surprise me if many of you favor it. Surrender is what you guys have always wanted. If you ever need to give up your day jobs there are plenty of positions open for you in the French army. Told you Ukraine wasn't getting any land back. I win again. What can we get you to help you swallow this pill so that people stop dying? Some sangria perhaps?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Saturday at 08:38 PM 7 minutes ago, Horseman said: Told you Ukraine wasn't getting any land back. I win again. What can we get you to help you swallow this pill so that people stop dying? Some sangria perhaps?  So you’re in favor of giving Russia land they never conquered after 3 years of war? Way to go, Mon Ami! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 08:40 PM Tiny Z seems like he may have learned his lesson. He's not hyperventilating like Tim is. Coming to talk to the BOSS on Monday and he's talked a lot about how the killing must stop. At any rate we're done funding Ukraine's defense according to JD. If they want more weapons they're free to purchase them from American companies.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Saturday at 08:42 PM 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: So you’re in favor of giving Russia land they never conquered after 3 years of war? Way to go, Mon Ami! Ukraine can't manage to get it back. What are YOU going to do to get it back for them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 08:43 PM 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: So you’re in favor of giving Russia land they never conquered after 3 years of war? Way to go, Mon Ami! I don't give two chits either way blowhard. I know they're not getting any back, like I said.   Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Saturday at 09:20 PM 1 hour ago, Horseman said: Props, you're seeing through the TDS blinders most of your fellow libs have on.  You asked about Russian concessions. Putin said quite a bit about trade and partnership. That's more of a concession for us than Ukraine, but, it's more than we ever had with the previous administrations. Stopping the killing is a concession, because Putin doesn't care and I have to try and believe Tiny Z does. Look, it's a tough pill to swallow especially for the life isn't fair skyscreamers, but, you are 100% correct. Ukraine isn't getting that land back.  And whatever agreement is made Putin will 100% break it again as soon as he feels like he can get away with it. Just like he did this time under Biden.  He wouldn’t break, or whoever is next Putin will be dead within a few years, a real security deal. Anything less than that would be very disappointing considering what Ukraine and the good guys went through. Russia’s chump ass army was exposed here. Would be a shame to give away land with no real reassurances in place. A tough guy like Trump should be able to get this done. But also he’s actually a big puss who just wants to try and win an award. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,383 Posted Saturday at 09:43 PM On the ground situation as it currently stands: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/putin-makes-battlefield-breakthrough-urgent-132548589.html  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Saturday at 11:10 PM 1 hour ago, Gepetto said: On the ground situation as it currently stands: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/putin-makes-battlefield-breakthrough-urgent-132548589.html  Pedo Zelensky better strike a deal while he can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Saturday at 11:38 PM 2 hours ago, thegeneral said: He wouldn’t break, or whoever is next Putin will be dead within a few years, a real security deal. Anything less than that would be very disappointing considering what Ukraine and the good guys went through. Russia’s chump ass army was exposed here. Would be a shame to give away land with no real reassurances in place. A tough guy like Trump should be able to get this done. But also he’s actually a big puss who just wants to try and win an award. Ukraine aren't the good guys. Not as bad Putin maybe, but, a bunch of liberal geeks cheering Ukraine putting their flags in their yard might be the biggest con of all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 12:00 AM 21 minutes ago, Horseman said: Ukraine aren't the good guys. Not as bad Putin maybe, but, a bunch of liberal geeks cheering Ukraine putting their flags in their yard might be the biggest con of all. The good guys are us and Europe. Our allies. Fold Ukraine in. Russia is not, they’d fock us over at any opportunity. In any case Russia got exposed as third rate chumps. Ukraine fought them off with our hand me downs and with their hands tied. Putin isn’t going to do a thing if we add them into NATO. Another chip in our stack, that’s not in theirs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 12:03 AM 2 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Ukraine fought them off with our hand me downs and with their hands tied Did they?? Russia.just gained huge real estate in Ukraine. Time is not on Ukraines side Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,926 Posted Sunday at 12:11 AM 3 hours ago, seafoam1 said: Ukraine can't manage to get it back. What are YOU going to do to get it back for them? This really at the end of the day is the question. That land is gone… you wanna go try to get it back? Good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 12:18 AM 16 minutes ago, thegeneral said: The good guys are us and Europe. Our allies. Fold Ukraine in. Russia is not, they’d fock us over at any opportunity. In any case Russia got exposed as third rate chumps. Ukraine fought them off with our hand me downs and with their hands tied. Putin isn’t going to do a thing if we add them into NATO. Another chip in our stack, that’s not in theirs. Ukraine isn't in NATO and they aren't the good guys no matter how you try to twist it with your pretzel logic.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 12:19 AM 14 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Did they?? Russia.just gained huge real estate in Ukraine. Time is not on Ukraines side Russia was expected to take the whole country in 3 days. Instead they lost hundreds of thousands of troops and are using North Korean soldiers who might not even have matching uniforms Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 12:23 AM Just now, Horseman said: Ukraine isn't in NATO and they aren't the good guys no matter how you try to twist it with your pretzel logic.  No shlt they aren’t in NATO. Thats what I’m saying should come out of this. They are much better than Russia. Saving their country might perhaps even buy a little good faith. You think? We tell little Vlad that they are now part of the winning team. If he doesn’t like it tough titties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 12:33 AM 13 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Russia was expected to take the whole country in 3 days. Instead they lost hundreds of thousands of troops and are using North Korean soldiers who might not even have matching uniforms There's no participation trophies for 2nd place in a war. Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 12:39 AM 1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said: There's no participation trophies for 2nd place in a war.   Ukraine can’t win…but Russia looks a lot more like the Cleveland Browns than the Eagles. Chumpinskis! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 12:48 AM 24 minutes ago, thegeneral said: No shlt they aren’t in NATO. Thats what I’m saying should come out of this. They are much better than Russia. Saving their country might perhaps even buy a little good faith. You think? We tell little Vlad that they are now part of the winning team. If he doesn’t like it tough titties. You don't let corrupt countries into NATO Einstein.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 12:50 AM 16 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: There's no participation trophies for 2nd place in a war.   Does it get any dumber? Browns suck but they're beating Alabama, ha ha.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy Loam 218 Posted Sunday at 12:54 AM Putin played chess; Trump played tic tac toe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 12:55 AM 1 minute ago, Horseman said: You don't let corrupt countries into NATO Einstein.  If they took in Bulgaria and Turkey, Ukraine can slide right in. They have deadbeats like Spain. Ukraine at least brings in some moxie. They also are wanted by Russia so fock those fur hat wearing shitbags, worth it for that alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 01:03 AM 10 minutes ago, thegeneral said: If they took in Bulgaria and Turkey, Ukraine can slide right in. They have deadbeats like Spain. Ukraine at least brings in some moxie. They also are wanted by Russia so fock those fur hat wearing shitbags, worth it for that alone. 1-1 Not getting land back. Not getting into NATO.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 01:05 AM 10 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said: Putin played chess; Trump played tic tac toe. Rusty plays music that no one is ever going to listen to.  1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 01:08 AM 1 minute ago, Horseman said: 1-1 Not getting lad back. Not getting into NATO.  That would be a shame and a waste. Not sure what Don is waiting for if he’s just gong to surrender. Get it over with. Dude has wasted 8 months talking tough when we al know what he’s going to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 01:10 AM 1 minute ago, thegeneral said: That would be a shame and a waste. Not sure what Don is waiting for if he’s just gong to surrender. Get it over with. Dude has wasted 8 months talking tough when we al know what he’s going to do. Maybe we just let them kill each other. Win-Win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Sunday at 01:12 AM 32 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Ukraine can’t win…but Russia looks a lot more like the Cleveland Browns than the Eagles. Chumpinskis! Except the fact that they are winning. When have the Browns been winning?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Sunday at 01:13 AM 2 minutes ago, Horseman said: Maybe we just let them kill each other. Win-Win. Liberals would rather it cost us trillions to support a losing war over years of time. For some pathetic, stupid reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites