GhostofMeanMachine99 1 Posted October 20, 2006 Falcons quarterback Michael Vick is beat up and sounds a little fed up after last Sunday's 27-14 loss to the Giants. Vick returned to practice on Thursday after missing Wednesday's session with a sore shoulder, according to a report in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The newspaper said the quarterback taped a session of Inside the NFL for HBO and told host Cris Carter that getting sacked a career-high seven times by the Giants got to him. "It's the worst I ever felt," Vick told Carter. During the interview, Vick blamed the game plan for the beating the Falcons took. "You've got to throw the ball sometimes," Vick said. "You can't just line up and run the ball every time on first and second down. Teams key in on that and they have coaches, too. We're going to have to throw it more ... Coach [Jim Mora] is going have to trust in me to get it done and I'm up to the challenge to get it done." Carter asked Vick if his old coach, Dan Reeves, was better for his game. Vick answered: "When Reeves was here, I was 50 yards shy of 3,000 yards passing, and I was among top 15 in passing in NFL. Coach Reeves, he believed in me and gave me a chance to throw the football." The frustrated quarterback didn't stop at questioning the coaching staff. He also wondered if he'd be better off with different teammates, specifically at wide receiver. Carter threw out names like Chad Johnson and Randy Moss, and Vick said, "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week." He's unhappy whenever someone makes him look inadequate at QB. First, it was the WCO's fault for hamstringing his running abilities. Coach changes the offensive philosophy, and tell's Vick to be Vick. He gets hammered one game, all of a sudden it's the coaching staff's fault for not allowing him to throw the football? It's the team's fault for not putting elite receivers around him? Does he even get it? Can he be this selfish? He's a running QB in an offense based on the running game. The team's invested draft picks, and have made trades to give him WR options in the passing game. Hell, they went out a few years back, overpaid, to get the receiver du jour in Peerless Price. What's been the common denominator during his career? He wins ballgames with his running ability, yet when he's forced to throw the ball, he's inconsistent. And, when he does throw the ball, he looks for his TE first. When he makes comments like these, how can anybody take him seriously as an NFL QB? I really want to see Vick fans defend him, really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berven 0 Posted October 20, 2006 To a point, it's easy to defend Vick. He's not Akili Smith, Tim Couch, or Ryan Leaf. He is a 1st-rounder who actually became a starting NFL QB. His teams win and have made it to the playoffs. What Vick has failed to do, though, is to become the game-changing force who could beat you with his feet or his arms. His passing is little improved from his rookie year; he cannot hit receivers in stride or master timing routes. The result is that he can be beat either by a good defense that contains his running or by a good offense that gets 21 points up and makes him pass. Vick would benefit some from a Moss or Owens who could yank balls out of the sky, but he would waste their abilities too. You can't get by on flips to the TE plus the occasional long bomb. If Vick had the passing ability of even a Rodney Peete, he would be unstoppable. As it is, unless he takes his team to the Big One, I don't think Atlanta will offer him another contract when his current deal expires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowman 4 Posted October 20, 2006 If the WRs/TE did not drop 4 easy TD passes this year, everyone would be saying this is his best season. Like Bledsoe one week they are calling for his head after a loss, but after a big win everyone forgets about it. And has far as FF is concerned I got a top 10 QB for $5 while Plamer and Mannings were going for $60. That allowed me to buy McAllister/D.Branch/Driver/S.Smith for just a little more than that $60. It is about value and depth. If he gets injures Shaub will be a little above avg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted October 20, 2006 I watched that interview last night...I think Vick was absolutely right. He's criticized for his low completion % when on the replays they showed WRs and TEs dropping easy pass after easy pass after easy pass. They were talking about his perceoved inaccuracy, then showing him throw deep passes, short screens and slants with perfect precision, only to have the receiver drop the ball. They had Dan Reeves sound byte that Vick was the most accurate deep passer he's ever seen...and they showed clips from a couple seasons ago when he threw for just under 3000 yards. How can you criticize a guy's completion % based on such a small sample size? If he were throwing 35-40 times a game, and if he had a WR who could hold the ball no one woul deven be talking about any of this. Vick is 100% right: Mora doesn't trust him to throw the ball and it's hindering his growth as a QB. If the WRs/TE did not drop 4 easy TD passes this year, everyone would be saying this is his best season. Like Bledsoe one week they are calling for his head after a loss, but after a big win everyone forgets about it. Perfectly stated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Bastard 154 Posted October 20, 2006 I watched that interview last night...I think Vick was absolutely right. He's criticized for his low completion % when on the replays they showed WRs and TEs dropping easy pass after easy pass after easy pass. They were talking about his perceoved inaccuracy, then showing him throw deep passes, short screens and slants with perfect precision, only to have the receiver drop the ball. They had Dan Reeves sound byte that Vick was the most accurate deep passer he's ever seen...and they showed clips from a couple seasons ago when he threw for just under 3000 yards. How can you criticize a guy's completion % based on such a small sample size? If he were throwing 35-40 times a game, and if he had a WR who could hold the ball no one woul deven be talking about any of this. Vick is 100% right: Mora doesn't trust him to throw the ball and it's hindering his growth as a QB. Perfectly stated. Man, i've been saying these things for the last 3 years since Reeves left. Vick can be a force in this league. He have shown that he CAN make the throws. Just get him a coach that can trust him. There is NO reason why he is only throwing 15-20 passes a game even when they are behind. Makes NO SENSE. FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! FREE M. VICK!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 20, 2006 WRs drop passes, the great TO has dropped a bunch this year. I think everyone is overlooking the fact that a great QB makes great WRs. What Vick is saying is that he is not good enough to do that but if he had talented WRs they could make him look better. I would say comments like this are unacceptable from the leader of your team. Good leaders that the blame and pass out the praise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted October 20, 2006 I have not watched Atlanta closely enough to know if his WRs/TEs are dropping passes or not....I will take your word for it. I have watched Atlanta enough to know that Vick isn't as accurate as he thinks he is, and you don't question your coaches in the press. If he has a problem with Mora, he and Mora should discuss the problem privately, like men. This does reek of Vick being self-centered and overrating himself to me, but I'm sure some of his frustrations have some validity....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieG 4 Posted October 20, 2006 He just hasn't evolved as much as he should have to this point and he's grossly overpaid due to him being exciting and marketable. I know any Qb can be limited by a good scheme with their effectiveness reduced.. but he just doesn't seem like he can be effective in the pocket, his decisions are not great and he does not throw very accurately. He's also a prima donna. I'm sorry but at this stage in their careers, guys like Tarkenton, Steve Young, McNabb i.e. other mobility based QBs were alot more effective at flat out winning games themselves.. granted some of these guys had a lot more talent catching the ball.. but when you watch Vick play, even with a few drops here and there, there are MANY poorly thrown balls, bad decisions and he takes off instead of making a good throw to resolve the situation. Just my $0.02. And bit(hing to Inside the NFL is not a cool move at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cp429 0 Posted October 20, 2006 This forum is full of Vick haters. I think some of you guys need to watch the games. I cannot believe he was compared to Rodney Peete- thats insanity. This guy has an absolute cannon for an arm, and no weapons to throw too. And it make it difficult to pass on CONSTANT 3rd and long situations, especially when the run game isnt getting 200 yards a game. Mora oversimplified the offense and they seriously do run every 1st and 2nd down. Its like he never heard of a gameplan and mixing it up. I can just blame the receivers, but the gameplan as well. It would be interesting if jenkins or white would haul the ball in. Lelie should get a bigger shot, because these other guys dont block well and get penalized for holding. Also, they need to free up Dunn. He should seriously catch 60 passes a year and would help open up the field to the flats. Mora's comments are ludicrous regarding Dunn's touches, but you need to get the ball to guys that can make things happen, not just lob deep balls and hope you score a TD every time. There are so many dink and dunk offenses out there that work effectively. Maybe, these guys need to change it up and call some real offensive plays. Unleash Vick and Dunn.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UberAlias 0 Posted October 20, 2006 So where are the stats to support allthese drops? Drops: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...2&Submit=Go Passes no caught: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...7&Submit=Go Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowman 4 Posted October 20, 2006 The thing I do not get is why they do not let him throw screens to Dunn or quick hitch passes to Lelie/White?Dunn only gets about 2-3 passes a game. Sometimes ot even that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted October 20, 2006 This forum is full of Vick haters. I think some of you guys need to watch the games. I cannot believe he was compared to Rodney Peete- thats insanity. This guy has an absolute cannon for an arm, and no weapons to throw too. And it make it difficult to pass on CONSTANT 3rd and long situations, especially when the run game isnt getting 200 yards a game. Mora oversimplified the offense and they seriously do run every 1st and 2nd down. Its like he never heard of a gameplan and mixing it up. I can just blame the receivers, but the gameplan as well. It would be interesting if jenkins or white would haul the ball in. Lelie should get a bigger shot, because these other guys dont block well and get penalized for holding. Also, they need to free up Dunn. He should seriously catch 60 passes a year and would help open up the field to the flats. Mora's comments are ludicrous regarding Dunn's touches, but you need to get the ball to guys that can make things happen, not just lob deep balls and hope you score a TD every time. There are so many dink and dunk offenses out there that work effectively. Maybe, these guys need to change it up and call some real offensive plays. Unleash Vick and Dunn.... While you may be right, a lot of the "hate" is a natural backlash from the crush that the media has on him. He's vastly overrated by the media (ESPN in particular) and probably a little underrated here, like you said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted October 20, 2006 The thing I do not get is why they do not let him throw screens to Dunn or quick hitch passes to Lelie/White?Dunn only gets about 2-3 passes a game. Sometimes ot even that. I think Dunn's only had 6 receptions all year. What the hell is Mora thinking? He has Norwood and Dunn as receiving weapons and they never use them? These guys are both explosive in the open field - what a waste of talent. Also, what would be the problem with spreading the offense and having an empty backfield once in a while? Get 5 receivers out there in Lelie, White, Jenkins, Dunn & Norwood, and force the defense to back the fock off every now & then. the option is still there for Vick and if the play goes to Dunn or Norwood they likely get single coverage. If Vick takes off scrambling, he likely only has 1-2 guys to beat and he takes it to the house. I totally agree - the playcalling in ATL sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Bastard 154 Posted October 20, 2006 Since Mora and Knapp became coaches, Warrick Dunn's reception per game have dropped from 3.4 to 1.67. Completely cut in half. Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Bastard 154 Posted October 20, 2006 Let's really cut into Vick's "PASSING" numbers over the years. Under Dan Reeves, here are vick's numbers 28 Games - Started 21 4306 yards passing 634 Att 331 Comp 22 TD 14 INT That gives him a completion percentage of 52.2%. Which is not very good. But is it really that bad? Have anyone realize he was averaging a STAGGERING 13 yards per completion. Just to give you folks how good the yards per completion is here are some of the best QB in the league and their yards on completion is currently in their career. P. Manning - 11.6 Palmer - 11.2 McNabb - 11.5 Brady - 11.45 Vick - 13 Maybe there is SOME truth to what Dan Reeves said. "Vick is the best deep ball passer that he have ever seen" Now fast forward to what happened to Vick when Mora and Knapp came on board. 2003-2006 (thru first 5 games) 35 games 5401 Yards 825 Attempts 454 Completion 32 TD 29 INT 55% completion percentage 11.89 yard per completion Essentially what the WCO have done is shorten Vick's passes by having their WR run shorter routes. This is where the problem is. As pointed out by Scooter, a WCO that doesn't relied on screens and dump off passes to their running backs creates NO passing lanes. His INT to TD ratio goes up because of lack of passing lane. It makes the offense so predictable. This is the reason why Defenses always tend to know what's going to happen next with this team. Unless they can get a REAL WR that can catch 5 yard slants and turn it into 20 yard gains or someone that can create any level of separations from the defender, Vick is in a BAD situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GhostofMeanMachine99 1 Posted October 20, 2006 This forum is full of Vick haters. I think some of you guys need to watch the games. I cannot believe he was compared to Rodney Peete- thats insanity. This guy has an absolute cannon for an arm, and no weapons to throw too. And it make it difficult to pass on CONSTANT 3rd and long situations, especially when the run game isnt getting 200 yards a game. Mora oversimplified the offense and they seriously do run every 1st and 2nd down. Its like he never heard of a gameplan and mixing it up. I can just blame the receivers, but the gameplan as well. It would be interesting if jenkins or white would haul the ball in. Lelie should get a bigger shot, because these other guys dont block well and get penalized for holding. Also, they need to free up Dunn. He should seriously catch 60 passes a year and would help open up the field to the flats. Mora's comments are ludicrous regarding Dunn's touches, but you need to get the ball to guys that can make things happen, not just lob deep balls and hope you score a TD every time. There are so many dink and dunk offenses out there that work effectively. Maybe, these guys need to change it up and call some real offensive plays. Unleash Vick and Dunn.... So you're saying that anyone who criticizes Vick based on his performance and/or what he says in the press is automatically a hater? Please. There is a pretty good trend to follow regarding good/great NFL QB's: they make the players around them better. Brady does it, McNabb does it, Peyton Manning does it, and Carson Palmer does it. Sure, he's got a great live arm, sure he throws with accuracy, and yes he throws a great deep ball. No of those things mean a damn thing if he cannot make the correct read, and if he can't figure out opposing defenses. I don't by the theory that "it's everbody else's fault around him", that's all. He takes zero personal responsibility in the lack of a passing game while he's been a Falcon. Plenty of running QBs in this league have become solid passers, most notably McNabb and Steve Young, IMO, one of the greatest physical talents to ever play the position. If the brain can't figure it out, it makes the physical talent pretty useless, don't you think? Since Mora and Knapp became coaches, Warrick Dunn's reception per game have dropped from 3.4 to 1.67.Completely cut in half. Why? One answer could be the way opposing defenses gameplan against Vick. You see alot of defenses protect the edges when they deal with Vick. If you have defenders playing out on the edges and occupying space in the flat, it makes it harder to get your backs out in the flat to run screen passes. That would be my guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OD99 0 Posted October 20, 2006 So where are the stats to support allthese drops? Drops: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...2&Submit=Go Passes no caught: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...7&Submit=Go Very cool site. Nice job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yer mom 2 Posted October 20, 2006 So where are the stats to support allthese drops? Drops: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...2&Submit=Go Passes no caught: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...7&Submit=Go Wow...I was thinking it but had no proof to support it....nicely dunn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
santa*69 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Vick is never going to be a great QB he does not have the IQ for it. Mora just like his Dad is one of the most conservative coaches in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OD99 0 Posted October 20, 2006 They were talking about his perceoved inaccuracy, then showing him throw deep passes, short screens and slants with perfect precision, only to have the receiver drop the ball. How can you criticize a guy's completion % based on such a small sample size? If he were throwing 35-40 times a game, and if he had a WR who could hold the ball no one woul deven be talking about any of this. To be blunt the whole idea of saying that his receivers are not good enough to give him a better completion % is garbage. NFL receivers can all catch the ball - of course some drop balls but give me a break, these guys aren't out there just because they look good, they are pro receivers. I have seen him miss open receivers or put no touch on a ball that requires it just as many times as I have seen his receivers drop passes. Plus, specifically for you Scooter (because I have seen you bash him numerous times about this), McNabb has about 5% points on Vick and don't tell me he has been blessed with great receivers - and according to you McNabb constantly throws balls at people feet and is not accurate all...so where do you rank Vick compared to D-Mac? To comment on the small sample size; almost 1500 attempts is a small sample size? I respectfully disagree. Face it, Vick is a good NFL QB who can win games but he is not and may not ever evolve into a good passing QB. Blame the system if you want but "lesser" players the mighty Vick have done more with their limited skill. Lastly, and I will say this about any player in any sport - calling out teamates and especially coaches (double especially for one who has coddled and stood up for Vick like Mora) in the media is bush league and shows a lack of character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
santa*69 0 Posted October 20, 2006 To be blunt the whole idea of saying that his receivers are not good enough to give him a better completion % is garbage. NFL receivers can all catch the ball - of course some drop balls but give me a break, these guys aren't out there just because they look good, they are pro receivers. I have seen him miss open receivers or put no touch on a ball that requires it just as many times as I have seen his receivers drop passes. Plus, specifically for you Scooter (because I have seen you bash him numerous times about this), McNabb has about 5% points on Vick and don't tell me he has been blessed with great receivers - and according to you McNabb constantly throws balls at people feet and is not accurate all...so where do you rank Vick compared to D-Mac? To comment on the small sample size; almost 1500 attempts is a small sample size? I respectfully disagree. Face it, Vick is a good NFL QB who can win games but he is not and may not ever evolve into a good passing QB. Blame the system if you want but "lesser" players the mighty Vick have done more with their limited skill. Lastly, and I will say this about any player in any sport - calling out teamates and especially coaches (double especially for one who has coddled and stood up for Vick like Mora) in the media is bush league and shows a lack of character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berven 0 Posted October 20, 2006 I don't hate Vick; I enjoy watching him. I also enjoyed watching Bobby Douglass, the old Bears QB who rushed for nearly 1000 yards one year and had a bazooka arm, but who threw with imprecision. Vick is the second coming of Douglass. Both of these guys should have spent time out back, throwing the football at that swinging tire suspended from a tree limb. All the great ones did it. Vick, now in his 6th season, has yet to throw 3 TDs in a game, unlike Kyle Boller, who chucked 3 in relief of McNair last week. That stat testifies eloquently to Vick's great limitation. His crabbing about his receivers also rubs me the wrong way. He needs better wideouts, just like Edge says he needs better blocking and Dayne says he needs more carries. Blaming others is the classic "Loser's Lament." People who are doing well--in any field--don't talk like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdbrain3X 0 Posted October 20, 2006 What doesn't help Vick is when Schaub came in to spell him. The offense was high-scoring, the shootout with NE comes to my mind) and those same recievers who seem to drop passes and suck in general caught everything thrown to them and looked like completely different players(Jenkins in particular IMO). Excuses can't be made for Vick any longer, he has had the #1 rushing attack in the league. Vick is Randall Cunningham Lite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted October 20, 2006 To be blunt the whole idea of saying that his receivers are not good enough to give him a better completion % is garbage. NFL receivers can all catch the ball - of course some drop balls but give me a break, these guys aren't out there just because they look good, they are pro receivers. I have seen him miss open receivers or put no touch on a ball that requires it just as many times as I have seen his receivers drop passes. Plus, specifically for you Scooter (because I have seen you bash him numerous times about this), McNabb has about 5% points on Vick and don't tell me he has been blessed with great receivers - and according to you McNabb constantly throws balls at people feet and is not accurate all...so where do you rank Vick compared to D-Mac? To comment on the small sample size; almost 1500 attempts is a small sample size? I respectfully disagree. Face it, Vick is a good NFL QB who can win games but he is not and may not ever evolve into a good passing QB. Blame the system if you want but "lesser" players the mighty Vick have done more with their limited skill. Lastly, and I will say this about any player in any sport - calling out teamates and especially coaches (double especially for one who has coddled and stood up for Vick like Mora) in the media is bush league and shows a lack of character. 1. McNabb is a stud. No doubt about it. But at times he is wildly inaccurate. 2. In referring to Vick in this topic, please don't confuse me with others - I am only referring to 2006 games. I've watched the last 3 games and in those games his WRs and Crumpler have dropped several perfect passes. That's a fact. at least 4 TDs were negated by dropped passes or incidental penalties, none of which were Vick's fault. I am not talking about his career - if you recall from last year and before I was driving the bandwagon that Vick was overrated. But watching him this year, he seems to have improved dramatically on his short and interemediate passing, but the stats do not reflect it. Again, just talking about the last 3 games of this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EndAround 0 Posted October 20, 2006 So where are the stats to support allthese drops? Drops: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...2&Submit=Go Passes no caught: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...7&Submit=Go Would need to see drops/targets and passes not caught/targets It's possible that the ATL receivers don't have the most drops, but could have the most drops/targets. Steve Smith and DJax have more dropped passes than Crumpler, but I'd wager that they also get 2x-4x more opportunities per game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OD99 0 Posted October 20, 2006 1. McNabb is a stud. No doubt about it. But at times he is wildly inaccurate. Can't argue with that at all...but I do say Vick is the same - without the stud handle yet. 2. In referring to Vick in this topic, please don't confuse me with others - I am only referring to 2006 games. I've watched the last 3 games and in those games his WRs and Crumpler have dropped several perfect passes. That's a fact. at least 4 TDs were negated by dropped passes or incidental penalties, none of which were Vick's fault. Didn't realize you were only talking about last three games, my mistake. Still...other QB's have had players drop passes in the endzone, and penalties hurt each team (granted, some more than others) this alone does not totally excuse Vick. I am not talking about his career - if you recall from last year and before I was driving the bandwagon that Vick was overrated. But watching him this year, he seems to have improved dramatically on his short and interemediate passing, but the stats do not reflect it. I certainly recall this - which is why I wanted to specifically broach your thoughts on the matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sanders 0 Posted October 20, 2006 He is an average at best passer but some of the blame does fall on the WRs. When they were leading he threw a perfect 50 yard bomd and hit the WR right in the hands and he dropped it. They need their WRs to catch balls and then maybe Vicks confidence in them will grow to where he doesn't think it's a waste to throw the ball their way instead of run it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IN$TANT REPAY 8 Posted October 20, 2006 Matt Shaub Dallas + Shaub x Weiss = Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IN$TANT REPAY 8 Posted October 23, 2006 please change thread title to: Donovan McNabb is a fraud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mackgee 0 Posted October 23, 2006 Falcons quarterback Michael Vick is beat up and sounds a little fed up after last Sunday's 27-14 loss to the Giants. Vick returned to practice on Thursday after missing Wednesday's session with a sore shoulder, according to a report in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The newspaper said the quarterback taped a session of Inside the NFL for HBO and told host Cris Carter that getting sacked a career-high seven times by the Giants got to him. "It's the worst I ever felt," Vick told Carter. During the interview, Vick blamed the game plan for the beating the Falcons took. "You've got to throw the ball sometimes," Vick said. "You can't just line up and run the ball every time on first and second down. Teams key in on that and they have coaches, too. We're going to have to throw it more ... Coach [Jim Mora] is going have to trust in me to get it done and I'm up to the challenge to get it done." Carter asked Vick if his old coach, Dan Reeves, was better for his game. Vick answered: "When Reeves was here, I was 50 yards shy of 3,000 yards passing, and I was among top 15 in passing in NFL. Coach Reeves, he believed in me and gave me a chance to throw the football." The frustrated quarterback didn't stop at questioning the coaching staff. He also wondered if he'd be better off with different teammates, specifically at wide receiver. Carter threw out names like Chad Johnson and Randy Moss, and Vick said, "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week." He's unhappy whenever someone makes him look inadequate at QB. First, it was the WCO's fault for hamstringing his running abilities. Coach changes the offensive philosophy, and tell's Vick to be Vick. He gets hammered one game, all of a sudden it's the coaching staff's fault for not allowing him to throw the football? It's the team's fault for not putting elite receivers around him? Does he even get it? Can he be this selfish? He's a running QB in an offense based on the running game. The team's invested draft picks, and have made trades to give him WR options in the passing game. Hell, they went out a few years back, overpaid, to get the receiver du jour in Peerless Price. What's been the common denominator during his career? He wins ballgames with his running ability, yet when he's forced to throw the ball, he's inconsistent. And, when he does throw the ball, he looks for his TE first. When he makes comments like these, how can anybody take him seriously as an NFL QB? I really want to see Vick fans defend him, really. Wrong again just like you are about your Eagles. Have you seen what Vick's record as a starting QB is? please change thread title to: Donovan McNabb is a fraud I been saying it all year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kcBlitzkrieg 17 Posted October 23, 2006 Let's really cut into Vick's "PASSING" numbers over the years. Under Dan Reeves, here are vick's numbers 28 Games - Started 21 4306 yards passing 634 Att 331 Comp 22 TD 14 INT That gives him a completion percentage of 52.2%. Which is not very good. But is it really that bad? Have anyone realize he was averaging a STAGGERING 13 yards per completion. Just to give you folks how good the yards per completion is here are some of the best QB in the league and their yards on completion is currently in their career. P. Manning - 11.6 Palmer - 11.2 McNabb - 11.5 Brady - 11.45 Vick - 13 Maybe there is SOME truth to what Dan Reeves said. "Vick is the best deep ball passer that he have ever seen" Now fast forward to what happened to Vick when Mora and Knapp came on board. 2003-2006 (thru first 5 games) 35 games 5401 Yards 825 Attempts 454 Completion 32 TD 29 INT 55% completion percentage 11.89 yard per completion Essentially what the WCO have done is shorten Vick's passes by having their WR run shorter routes. This is where the problem is. As pointed out by Scooter, a WCO that doesn't relied on screens and dump off passes to their running backs creates NO passing lanes. His INT to TD ratio goes up because of lack of passing lane. It makes the offense so predictable. This is the reason why Defenses always tend to know what's going to happen next with this team. Unless they can get a REAL WR that can catch 5 yard slants and turn it into 20 yard gains or someone that can create any level of separations from the defender, Vick is in a BAD situation. Im not a Vick hater or lover but the quote above hits straight on.....the West Coast offense has shortened routes & created the problem. Vick has no quality wideouts to run the west coast offense in...no one on that roster can run the routes with enough efficiency to take a 12 yard slant & turn in into a big gain or TD. From watching the game this week it looked like they opened up the downfield routes some more but its only one week & the style of the offense itself doesn't allow Vick & the receivers to put up the big numbers. If they are going to continue to run that style of offense then they need to gets some wideouts in there that fit that mould. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FaithinEli 0 Posted October 23, 2006 So where are the stats to support allthese drops? Drops: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...2&Submit=Go Passes no caught: http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...7&Submit=Go These stats are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The variable of "passes thrown to" needs to be added in order to make this a valid argument. For example, Marvin Harrison gets 1000 balls thrown to him and drops 100, dropping an average of 10% Michael Jenkins gets 200 balls thrown to him and drops 100, dropping an average of 50% of passes They'd both be rated the same on the above website when in reality Jenkins is dropping a LOT more passes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mackgee 0 Posted October 31, 2006 See Philly fans speaking wayyyyyyyy to soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackhead Bob 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Matt Shaub couldn't hold Mike Vick's jock Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mackgee 0 Posted October 31, 2006 I still like this thread. It's another Philadelphia fan wishing they had Vick instead of Mcnabb. Ghost this is by far you're greatest work yet. LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mackgee 0 Posted December 17, 2006 How can anybody take him seriously as an NFL QB? I really want to see Vick fans defend him, really. LOL @ you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GhostofMeanMachine99 1 Posted December 17, 2006 LOL @ you Are the laughs really on me for thinking Vick's a fraud, or are they on you for stalking me in every thread? Try as hard as you like to get under my skin like a 7 year old. Won't work. BTW, Vick had good numbers last nite but refused to finish the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Law 220 Posted December 17, 2006 LOL @ you WOW! It takes a mighty insecure a$$hole to track down a thread almost 2 months later! Not like situations are fluid and always changing right? Besides, after one game (3 games in 14) you're ready declare Vick good? You're the typical hypemonster who crawls up Vick's a$$ after he has his ONE good game in 5! Oh yeah, did he not still lose? (something I'm sure you're familar with) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
