2007/08 Superbowl Champion?

[StayFlyTilAddai 0]

At this point the Patriots offense is still no better than the Colts when you break it down player by player.

 

Manning vs. Brady - I'll say even..we all know we could piss and moan either way on these two all day

 

Marvin vs. Moss - I'll say Marvin...you can't tell me that one would choose the most dependable proven future hall of fame receiver in football right now with one of the most notorious malcontents in the NFL that is known to take multiple plays off every game.

 

Wayne vs. Stallworth - I'll say Wayne...Wayne is a Pro-Bowler and not many #2 receivers are better than him right now...Stallworth is also injury prone and New Orleans was more confident in a 7th round draft pick from hofstra than him so that tells me there must be something wrong with his work ethic.

 

Addai vs. Maroney - Even...Addai is a better blocker and is faster than maroney, but maroney is a more powerful runner...both are great receivers

 

Colts TE vs. Patriots TE - I'll give the edge to the Patriots...they have more overall depth at the position but the colts may have the best TE of the bunch in Clark who is not afraid to go over the middle and makes some of the more diffucult catches I have seen from a player at his position.

 

Colts O-Line vs Patriots O-Line - Even...The depth of the starting five is better than the Colts and has played together for many years so the chemistry between themselves and brady is extremely high..the Colts have the two best O-Line players of the bunch in Saturday and Glenn who both are Pro bowlers. Also, the colts O-line is also usually top 3 in sacks allowed every year.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

At this point the Patriots offense is still no better than the Colts when you break it down player by player.

 

Manning vs. Brady - I'll say even..we all know we could piss and moan either way on these two all day

 

Marvin vs. Moss - I'll say Marvin...you can't tell me that one would choose the most dependable proven future hall of fame receiver in football right now with one of the most notorious malcontents in the NFL that is known to take multiple plays off every game.

 

Wayne vs. Stallworth - I'll say Wayne...Wayne is a Pro-Bowler and not many #2 receivers are better than him right now...Stallworth is also injury prone and New Orleans was more confident in a 7th round draft pick from hofstra than him so that tells me there must be something wrong with his work ethic.

 

Addai vs. Maroney - Even...Addai is a better blocker and is faster than maroney, but maroney is a more powerful runner...both are great receivers

 

Colts TE vs. Patriots TE - I'll give the edge to the Patriots...they have more overall depth at the position but the colts may have the best TE of the bunch in Clark who is not afraid to go over the middle and makes some of the more diffucult catches I have seen from a player at his position.

 

Colts O-Line vs Patriots O-Line - Even...The depth of the starting five is better than the Colts and has played together for many years so the chemistry between themselves and brady is extremely high..the Colts have the two best O-Line players of the bunch in Saturday and Glenn who both are Pro bowlers. Also, the colts O-line is also usually top 3 in sacks allowed every year.

 

I would agree that the Patriots offense is no better than the Colts. Whose defense is better?

[markf 0]

I would agree that the Patriots offense is no better than the Colts. Whose defense is better?

 

Well... based on their performances from the last few times they met, I'd have to say the Colts until proven otherwise.

[DBZFan2K 0]

Well... based on their performances from the last few times they met, I'd have to say the Colts until proven otherwise.

 

I didn't know the Colts defense was bringing back Nick Harper, Jason David, and Cato June for this season. I guess if so then you have a point. But the Patriots defense improved while the Colts defense didn't. You'd have to be a homer to think the Colts D is better at this point in time.

[markf 0]

I didn't know the Colts defense was bringing back Nick Harper, Jason David, and Cato June for this season. I guess if so then you have a point. But the Patriots defense improved while the Colts defense didn't. You'd have to be a homer to think the Colts D is better at this point in time.

 

Harper is their biggest loss... and he was hurt during the playoffs. Saw limited time in the AFCCG. Many of the turnovers were forced by his replacements. Remember Heyden and Jackson?

 

You can wave paper rosters all you want, but until they prove that they can stop a true high-powered offense like the Colts on the field, you'll have to live with the fact that the Colts defense outplayed the Pats defense, proving that they are better until they meet again. It's the whole "Prove it in a Big Game" theory that you guys should be pretty familiar with at this point.

[Creeper 0]

Hell, even Tiger Woods can't win then all. just one bad day and youre history.

I'll take the field.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Harper is their biggest loss... and he was hurt during the playoffs. Saw limited time in the AFCCG. Many of the turnovers were forced by his replacements. Remember Heyden and Jackson?

 

You can wave paper rosters all you want, but until they prove that they can stop a true high-powered offense like the Colts on the field, you'll have to live with the fact that the Colts defense outplayed the Pats defense, proving that they are better until they meet again. It's the whole "Prove it in a Big Game" theory that you guys should be pretty familiar with at this point.

In that case, the Colts offense outplayed the Pats defense in the 2nd half. That defense had injuries up the wazoo. If I am not mistaken, the Colts defense did not do a whole heckuva lot until Brady threw the pick at the end. Let's not try to make that defense out to be something that it was not.

 

Fast forward to this offseason, I would say that the Patriots addressed their shortcomings on defense, while the Colts took a step (or two) backwards.

 

Now, I know that you are fishing

[t.j 35]

I'm in the minority I guess, but I am not too worried about the Colts defense. Much has been made about the starting corners leaving. But Marlin Jackson was about ready to start last year and he is back for his 3rd season in the league, he's the one who picked Brady in the end. Kelvin Hayden is back and he had the big pick against Mush and the Bears. Rookie Daymeion Hughes should fit in very well in the Cover 2.

 

I think the Colts did the big thing they had to do for the defense last year with trading for Anthony McFarland. That guy was an awesome, underrated addition and arguably he carried them to the Super Bowl. And they're bringing back Freeney which was the big thing. June is a loss but he's just an OLB.

[DBZFan2K 0]

But Marlin Jackson was about ready to start last year and he is back for his 3rd season in the league, he's the one who picked Brady in the end.

 

Marlin Jackson? Who's that? I don't know who that is!

[markf 0]

In that case, the Colts offense outplayed the Pats defense in the 2nd half. That defense had injuries up the wazoo.

 

Whoa... whoa.... easy with the excuses there, skippy. Colts had plenty of injuries that prevented them from playing at their peak during the Foxboro playoffs, but none of those were allowed by Pat's fans. You already know the score... it's 0-3 against the Colts at this point. I know you hate being in that position, but you guys didn't mind dancing your bannanas and singing "Pats own the Colts!" when the roles were reversed. So stop whining and take it like a man. At this point in the game... the Colts own you. Their offense is better. Their defense is better. They are the better team. And until the two take the field again head-to-head... you'll have to live with it.

 

You can gleefully crow about how the Pats D dominated the Colts offense in 6 months if it happens, and I'll most likely agree with you. But until then, take a seat. Drafts and FA's don't mean jack until they prove it in a big game scenario. To say otherwise proves you're in denial or have zero clue about the way this works. If either of those are the case... good luck with that.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

it is hilarious watching all the non-Pats fans typing volume after volume in an attempt to convince themselves and the world that NE didn't blow everyone away with their off-season moves.

 

Let's put it this way:

 

- if The Dolphins added Adalius Thomas OLB/ Randy Moss WR/ Kyle Brady TE/ Sammy Morris RB / Wes Welker WR / Donte Stallworth WR / Kelley Washington WR / Eddie Jackson CB / Tory James CB

I'd be thinking, yikes... they might have gotten themselves out of the cellar. I hope Moss implodes that team... I hope Stallworth is hurt...

 

- if the Colts, Chargers, or Bears added those FA's, I'd be thinking, FOCK! Now I'll have to type thousands of words to convince myself and others that this isn't really all that bad for the Patriots!

 

 

 

[JScott 20]

I'm in the minority I guess, but I am not too worried about the Colts defense. Much has been made about the starting corners leaving. But Marlin Jackson was about ready to start last year and he is back for his 3rd season in the league, he's the one who picked Brady in the end. Kelvin Hayden is back and he had the big pick against Mush and the Bears. Rookie Daymeion Hughes should fit in very well in the Cover 2.

 

I think the Colts did the big thing they had to do for the defense last year with trading for Anthony McFarland. That guy was an awesome, underrated addition and arguably he carried them to the Super Bowl. And they're bringing back Freeney which was the big thing. June is a loss but he's just an OLB.

I'm not getting into this "who's better" arguement, but it seems a lot of people are forgetting IND was one of, if not the worst Defense against the run all season. Then turned it around in the playoffs, which to their credit is where it counts. So my on question going into this season about the Colts D is which one will show up? The regular season or playoff run-d? I think that will determine things for the Colts.

 

 

Hopefully the regular season run-d, so that Manning will have to throw for 50 TDs on my fantasy team :banana:

[Fumbleweed 426]

The Colts are the favorites for me, with NE and San Diego close behind. I also think it's about time for an NFC power to emerge....so it wouldn't surprise me to see somebody put it all together over there.

 

The Colts offense is better than the Pats offense...period. Manning knows his primary receivers like the back of his hand. Brady is having to assimilate a bunch of new guys. That will take time.

 

I think NE has the better defense to be sure, but I'll take the team (for now) that has won the last three head-to-head matchups (Indianapolis)

[markf 0]

 

it is hilarious watching all the non-Pats fans typing volume after volume in an attempt to convince themselves and the world that NE didn't blow everyone away with their off-season moves.

 

Sorry, dude. Missed my point I guess. Not downing your off-season at all. There's no doubt Pats have been the most active and have added a great deal of talent. But until they prove it on the field... it's just paper. The last time we saw the Pats defense in a live-game situation, they were not the best defense on the field.

 

Make a little more sense this time?

[JScott 20]

Sorry, dude. Missed my point I guess. Not downing your off-season at all. There's no doubt Pats have been the most active and have added a great deal of talent. But until they prove it on the field... it's just paper. The last time we saw the Pats defense in a live-game situation, they were not the best defense on the field.

 

Make a little more sense this time?

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you seem to be hanging your hat on this one game (AFCC) as to making your point on "who's better". Were the Colts better in that game, yes, they won. End of story. But that was one game. Do you honestly (not fishing) believe the Colts had a better D than the Pats, taking into consideration the entire (regular and playoffs) season? Yes, as I said they won it all so they ended up on top and were the best in the playoffs. But I think you're dismissing the regular season performance too easily. The Colts run-d was a laughing stock. They were horrible, especially without Sanders. I just think that needs to be considered when trying to determine "who's better" going into this season.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Whoa... whoa.... easy with the excuses there, skippy. Colts had plenty of injuries that prevented them from playing at their peak during the Foxboro playoffs, but none of those were allowed by Pat's fans. You already know the score... it's 0-3 against the Colts at this point. I know you hate being in that position, but you guys didn't mind dancing your bannanas and singing "Pats own the Colts!" when the roles were reversed. So stop whining and take it like a man. At this point in the game... the Colts own you. Their offense is better. Their defense is better. They are the better team. And until the two take the field again head-to-head... you'll have to live with it.

 

You can gleefully crow about how the Pats D dominated the Colts offense in 6 months if it happens, and I'll most likely agree with you. But until then, take a seat. Drafts and FA's don't mean jack until they prove it in a big game scenario. To say otherwise proves you're in denial or have zero clue about the way this works. If either of those are the case... good luck with that.

Comprehension is apparently not your strong suit. Neither is tact. Read my posts again and then let me know if you really think this.

 

Regardless of whether you think that the Colts have a better team today (certainly debateable), to say that the Colts defense last year was better than the Patriots is a little off.

 

Carry on with the insults.

[StayFlyTilAddai 0]

As a colts fan I can honestly say that I am excited about the moves that the patriots made...I look forward to the Pats-Colts every year and usually count down each week until it happens. With the new players we are bound to see a better game and more spectacular plays...no matter what side you are on (Pats or Colts) you KNEW that caldwell was going to drop those passes, not going to happen with Moss and Stallworth.

 

However, I would NOT discredit the safeties and corners for the colts as most people have been doing right now based on the losses of harper and david. Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden are both 3rd year players that have already proved their worth in the playoffs and are hard hitters ready to start. Bob Sanders is a beast and makes the run support infinitely better when he is in the game, its day and night which is why the run D was so good against the Patriots in the regular season (a game that he played) and all of their playoff games (which he also played).

[markf 0]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you seem to be hanging your hat on this one game (AFCC) as to making your point on "who's better". Were the Colts better in that game, yes, they won. End of story. But that was one game. Do you honestly (not fishing) believe the Colts had a better D than the Pats, taking into consideration the entire (regular and playoffs) season? Yes, as I said they won it all so they ended up on top and were the best in the playoffs. But I think you're dismissing the regular season performance too easily. The Colts run-d was a laughing stock. They were horrible, especially without Sanders. I just think that needs to be considered when trying to determine "who's better" going into this season.

 

You're right... obviously one or two games don't define a season in reality. I was doing that mostly to point out how far from reality Pats claims against manning have been over the years... since they were essentially based on a few games... black and white... no excuses. It's nice to see that... when put in the same situation regarding Brady and the Pat's defense... NE fans may finally see how dumb that was.

 

The truth on the Colt's defense from last year can be found somewhere in-between. Did they play inspired during the playoffs? No doubt. But honestly... that was more typical of how they would have played throughout the regular season if Bob Sanders hadn't gotten hurt. Prior to the playoffs... when was the last time that both Sanders and Bethea played together in the same game? Oddly enough it was in Foxboro in November... and the defense as a whole played just like they did in the playoffs.

 

Can one man really make that much of a difference? Absolutely. So going under the assumption that Sanders is a full-season player next year, and that the loss of Harper was addressed two or three drafts ago by Polian's "Draft for down the road" strategy... I have no problem what-so-ever believing the Colts defense can be as good or better than the Pat's... even with the addition of AT. Your guys aren't getting any younger. Our young guys are emerging now. Why not.

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless of whether you think that the Colts have a better team today (certainly debateable), to say that the Colts defense last year was better than the Patriots is a little off.

 

See above... thanks.

[JScott 20]

As a colts fan I can honestly say that I am excited about the moves that the patriots made...I look forward to the Pats-Colts every year and usually count down each week until it happens. With the new players we are bound to see a better game and more spectacular plays...no matter what side you are on (Pats or Colts) you KNEW that caldwell was going to drop those passes, not going to happen with Moss and Stallworth.

 

However, I would NOT discredit the safeties and corners for the colts as most people have been doing right now based on the losses of harper and david. Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden are both 3rd year players that have already proved their worth in the playoffs and are hard hitters ready to start. Bob Sanders is a beast and makes the run support infinitely better when he is in the game, its day and night which is why the run D was so good against the Patriots in the regular season (a game that he played) and all of their playoff games (which he also played).

Good post... and definitely agree with (bolded above).

 

And yes, Sanders is the MVP of that D. I remember during the regular season game Sanders stopping Maroney in the hole seemingly every play. And I thought, that SOB came back just for this game ... and then he was inactive again after that game... even more But it did show me that even players (Sanders) eyed that as "the game" to play in.

 

And to your point about the secondary. They're not going to be the weekness. It will still be the run-d, but what I think the addition of Stallworth, Moss and to a lesser extent Welker will do is keep Sanders honest. He's not going to be able to help in run support. The Colts won't be able to leave their corners solely in 1-on-1 coverage, Sanders will have to help. Thus keeping him away from the line and opening things for the Pats running game. Just how I see it.

 

You're right... obviously one or two games don't define a season in reality. I was doing that mostly to point out how far from reality Pats claims against manning have been over the years... since they were essentially based on a few games... black and white... no excuses. It's nice to see that... when put in the same situation regarding Brady and the Pat's defense... NE fans may finally see how dumb that was.

 

The truth on the Colt's defense from last year can be found somewhere in-between. Did they play inspired during the playoffs? No doubt. But honestly... that was more typical of how they would have played throughout the regular season if Bob Sanders hadn't gotten hurt. Prior to the playoffs... when was the last time that both Sanders and Bethea played together in the same game? Oddly enough it was in Foxboro in November... and the defense as a whole played just like they did in the playoffs.

 

Can one man really make that much of a difference? Absolutely. So going under the assumption that Sanders is a full-season player next year, and that the loss of Harper was addressed two or three drafts ago by Polian's "Draft for down the road" strategy... I have no problem what-so-ever believing the Colts defense can be as good or better than the Pat's... even with the addition of AT. Your guys aren't getting any younger. Our young guys are emerging now. Why not.

See above... thanks.

Good post up until "Your guys aren't getting any younger". This is a commen point that I've seen a lot that's just not true. Literally no one get's younger. But I read (ESPN ?) that the Pats D is one of the youngest in the NFL. Yes, Vrabel, Bruschi and Harrison up there in age, but the rest of the D, including back-ups is very young. And with the additions of AT and Meriweather, they did get even younger on paper.

[markf 0]

 

 

But I read (ESPN ?) that the Pats D is one of the youngest in the NFL. Yes, Vrabel, Bruschi and Harrison up there in age, but the rest of the D, including back-ups is very young. And with the additions of AT and Meriweather, they did get even younger on paper.

 

Fair enough. You're right, must be a common misconception based on the top 3. Again... we'll have to wait and see when the season starts which defenses show up where in the AFC. Not ready to crown anyone yet.

[JScott 20]

Fair enough. You're right, must be a common misconception based on the top 3. Again... we'll have to wait and see when the season starts which defenses show up where in the AFC. Not ready to crown anyone yet.

[t.j 35]

I'm not getting into this "who's better" arguement, but it seems a lot of people are forgetting IND was one of, if not the worst Defense against the run all season. Then turned it around in the playoffs, which to their credit is where it counts. So my on question going into this season about the Colts D is which one will show up? The regular season or playoff run-d? I think that will determine things for the Colts.

Hopefully the regular season run-d, so that Manning will have to throw for 50 TDs on my fantasy team :banana:

 

That's what I'm saying, though. McFarland made a huge difference against the run! At the start of the season, the Colts were counting on Corey Simon. But Simon didn't play a down all year. So they traded for McFarland at the trade deadline, but then Bob Sanders was hurt for most of the rest of the year. In the playoffs they had both guys going and it made a big difference. I also think Indy made more of a concerted effort to stop the run as opposed to the pass in the playoffs. If you look at the regular season game vs New England, that was one game where McFarland and Sanders did both play... the Colts gave up 148 rushing yards but dominated Brady (0 TDs, 4 picks). In the postseason rematch, Brady had a much better day but the Pats rushed for 100 yards and were not able to get any consistency out of the run game. Maybe it had to do with Maroney's health or something, but it certainly seemed like they were playing more aggressively against the run.

 

That said, I can understand if you weren't all that sold on the Colts defense last year despite the strong showing in the playoffs. But the main point I wanted to make was that I don't agree with those who think Indy's D took a step back (let alone a big step back) in the offseason.

[Lionsjunkie 1]

Can I get the field at any of the SB out there

 

Although I think the Patsies can do it again, I'd be willing to gamble everything on the field

[swamp dog 0]

pick about 4 teams from the afc and rank them in any order you want...then argue who the best contender is from the nfc and put that team in the #5 spot.

 

it's that lopsided. the super bowl will be played, hands down, no question, in the afc title game this year. again.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

pick about 4 teams from the afc and rank them in any order you want...then argue who the best contender is from the nfc and put that team in the #5 spot.

 

it's that lopsided. the super bowl will be played, hands down, no question, in the afc title game this year. again.

 

I agree. Add in the fact that there will be some injuries during the season and you can't tell who will be in Arizona at the end of the season.

 

P.S. I don't think that SD is going to be as good this year as they were last season.