In your Opinion... Does this tarnish Belichick's and The Pats' Dynasty

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

I want my 2002 Superbowl trophy (JK)

 

 

Seriously though, it would be very easy to tape a coach sending in defensive plays (which is through use of signals, lip reading has nothing to do with it.... offensive coaches are the ones who have to be careful about having their lips read), run back the tape of the first half... and see what plays correspond to those signals.

 

Anyhow, on the topic... In your opinion, how much does this tarnish the view that Belichick is some sort of genius and the Pats dynasty as a whole?

 

 

My view: The key to all of the Pats Superbowl runs have been on the defensive side of the ball, and these allegations don't effect that. The Pats are not, and have never been anyone's friends. Going back to the soggy field against Indy episode, it was evident that they would do what it takes to gain any sort of edge to win.

 

Still though, I think that people should temper their reactions to this... for the time being at the very least. You still need players to play the game and make plays regardless of all of this. They have received their penalty, and they will be under the magnifying glass for any sort of illegal activity. If they still win this year (which I believe they will), then I think that this whole thing will not be a big deal and will have been made out to be more than it is. People are just trying to get their shots in while they can, and need to just move on and play football for now.

[Captain Goomy Noomy Roo 47]

I pretty much agree with your assessment.

 

OK so they broke the rules and they paid the price. Time to move on.

 

Those guys/players still had to go out there, strap it on, and play the game. The talent won those championships...Not the recorded play signals.

 

Hell, I say let em' all videotape all they want as long as it doesn't disrupt the field or the team sideline. Do you realize how much videotape these guys watch? Do you think this is the first time anyone has considered matching up the signals with the formations? C'mon... no one is that naive.

 

Thats my 2 cents on the whole thing. Other crybabies in the league need to suck it up and learn how to play football!!!!!

 

 

Like the PATS!!!

[Phurfur 70]

I pretty much agree with your assessment.

 

OK so they broke the rules and they paid the price. Time to move on.

 

Those guys/players still had to go out there, strap it on, and play the game. The talent won those championships...Not the recorded play signals.

Hell, I say let em' all videotape all they want as long as it doesn't disrupt the field or the team sideline. Do you realize how much videotape these guys watch? Do you think this is the first time anyone has considered matching up the signals with the formations? C'mon... no one is that naive.

 

Thats my 2 cents on the whole thing. Other crybabies in the league need to suck it up and learn how to play football!!!!!

Like the PATS!!!

 

 

Are you kidding me? Knowing what the other team is going to do is a great advantage. Did you forget how close those games were? To answer the original question, YES it does tarnish Belichick's and The Pats' Dynasty!

[MTSkiBum 1,606]

nope does not take away from anything the players did.

[ROCKET 0]

To Pats haters it does.

To Pats fans it doesn't.

All others' opinions will be split.

It doesn't matter, when all is said and done they still have the titles and no * will ever be put in front of them by the NFL.

[Captain Goomy Noomy Roo 47]

To Pats haters it does.

To Pats fans it doesn't.

All others' opinions will be split.

It doesn't matter, when all is said and done they still have the titles and no * will ever be put in front of them by the NFL.

 

 

Agreed! GO PATS!

[Smol0028 0]

Yes it tarnishes the Pats and the coaching staff. I think a lot of people wouldn't be asking this question if it were a "less popular" team or one that had a reputation for having issues with players/staff. But because it's the Pats who are supposed to be this team with "great character" players and coaches, people are trying to pass it off as not a big deal.....it's a big frickin deal!!! And it doesn't matter if it were offense or defense.....if they are willing to do this, then I'm sure they've done other shady things too.

 

But most of it goes on the staff and not the players IMO because we don't know if the players knew anything....I would assume that if the players knew that the coaches were cheating, that some of the players that have left the team over the past few years would have mentioned it to their new teams....and I'm sure it would have spread over the nfl like wildfire a lot soomer.

 

But I can honestly say that I question all of their titles and wins now in recent years. Maybe they didn't cheat during any of them and the wins are totally legit....but maybe they did....we will never know and people will always wonder. It totally sucks for the players if they didn't know because it does take away from their hard work. But knowing exactly what play to call is a major upside no matter if it's offense or defense.

[Captain Goomy Noomy Roo 47]

Are you kidding me? Knowing what the other team is going to do is a great advantage. Did you forget how close those games were? To answer the original question, YES it does tarnish Belichick's and The Pats' Dynasty!

 

 

Nope .... Not kidding Fufoo

 

I don't care what signals you think you know. You still have to play the game.

[NJJoe20 0]

Of course, history will frown on the titles.

[Dungheap 0]

Nope .... Not kidding Fufoo

 

I don't care what signals you think you know. You still have to play the game.

 

 

They won their Super Bowls by three points in each game. The cheating of the types the Pats did can make a three point difference in a game. Easily.

 

*

[kutulu 1,564]

yep, and you are kidding yourself if you say it doesn't.

 

poopy

[UncleHulka 0]

The Chargers, for one, have claimed that they had counter-measures against sign stealing and that it wasn't a factor last year. Of course, I doubt if any coaches would admit that they were dumb enough to allow someone to beat them in that way.

[edjr 5,784]

Today, Yes.

 

In 4 weeks, no.

 

hth

[kutulu 1,564]

Today, Yes.

 

In 4 weeks, no.

 

hth

 

Yeah, sure, right.

[RicemanX 20]

When I played LB for my high school, I remember playing a team that ran no huddle a lot, the coach had about 25 plays that he always signaled to the QB. I look over there everytime, because sometimes, I see one or two plays that look familiar. That play was a lot easier for me to find the rusher or prevent the pass.

 

Now I'm imagining if I had 20 of those plays read...it really can change a whole game.

[edjr 5,784]

When I played LB for my high school, I remember playing a team that ran no huddle a lot, the coach had about 25 plays that he always signaled to the QB. I look over there everytime, because sometimes, I see one or two plays that look familiar. That play was a lot easier for me to find the rusher or prevent the pass.

 

Now I'm imagining if I had 20 of those plays read...it really can change a whole game.

 

 

WOW, the lies on this board get worse and worse.

 

An asian playing football?

[aportanenko 0]

No, nothing changes, you will never hear about the Pats being cheaters again and no one will ever talk about putting asterisks on their trophies.

 

EVER

 

P.S. Does anybody have any more crack?

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

One thing I have exception with in this is, haven't they every heard of a zoom lense? It seems like this owuld be way easier to do.

[RicemanX 20]

WOW, the lies on this board get worse and worse.

 

An asian playing football?

You might not have noticed while you were jerking off to my geek pic, but I'm a pretty big kid.

[IndyTom 0]

As long as Spy-Gate enters our minds whenever BB's name is mentioned - he will remain tarnished. Not necessarily the Pats. Once BB is gone, the Spy Gate will follow him, not the Pats.

 

Same thing with Barry Bonds. Will anyone ever think about him now, or 20 years from now, without thinking about steroids? Highly doubtful.

[Perennial Contender 18]

Yes. Cheatin' fock's.

 

It is the world we live in though. Everybody cheats and lies. And everybody loves it when someone get's busted for it.

[Franknbeans 46]

I think stains is the proper word

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

totally. no doubt about it. tarnished.....forever.

 

*

 

[dfin13 0]

It makes you wonder what else the Patriots did to cheat that hasn't yet been revealed. For that reason alone, there will always be doubt cast on their legacy. And now we can just toss the whole "Winning with class" crap right out the window.

[UncleHulka 0]

Yes. Cheatin' fock's.

Everybody cheats and lies.

No, that's just the rationalization that liars and cheats like yourself use to justify their actions.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

YES

[Jeremy 0]

Yeah, it tarnishes their legacy. Even if it isn't a monumental advantage (and I'm not convinced it isn't), it may be enough to win an extra game. That extra game might be enough to get a better seed or homefield advantage. Quite a difference having the Colts come to Foxboro where they can make the field as unfriendly to the Colts passing game as they want, than if the game is in Indy and their indoor stadium. And as others have said, those games were all very close. Yeah, they have to play the game, but when one team is cheating and the other (possibly) isn't, that matters.

 

And do you think for a second they would risk their reputations (and money and draft picks) if they didn't think going these things made a difference in the outcome?

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

YES AGAIN!

Cheaters never win...

[cblue 0]

Yes, this does tarnish the Pats and everything they have done with Belicheat at the wheel.

 

Knowing the play that the other team is going to run is an advantage. Gaining that knowledge through real-time, on the field observation is okay. Everyone does that.

 

But, once you start taping the signals as they are sent in- you have crossed the line. Now the film can be analyzed at home. And if you tape Defensive co-ordinators for years, you now have a data base of their signals- you now have an unfair advantage. You can now call a screen play when you KNOW the other team is blitzing.

[chimchim17 0]

Maybe old news? But this is great

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg

[reapers69 0]

Of course it tarnishes the "Dynasty" anytime you have or are believed to have an unfair advantage it takes something away from your accomplishments.

 

But the idea a few people are putting out there that it would be easy to video tape and decipher what the signals mean during a 15 minute halftime period is absurd. I coached for several years at the high school and junior college level and I guarantee you couldn't figure out the 6-8 and sometimes more signals that we sent in for any given play.

 

It's not as simple as left hand on head, right hand on hip, elbows out, one foot up means 4-3 with zone coverage and left outside linebacker spys the QB.

 

A head pat or an arm wave cold be involved in 40 different plays and depending on the sequence it means different things.

 

I believe that this is a simple matter of Big Bill being a control freak. He wants to do the scouting on his own. Every team at any level has advanced scouts. Those guys are out there looking at signs and tendencies. It's not like they're coming back after scouting the Colts and telling the head coach "hey that guy Manning is pretty good." I do believe that all of this has given them an advantage in follow up games. The Pats record against teams they face for a second or third time (playoffs) in a given year is great.

[Pimptaddy 0]

NO!

 

 

They have these... :first:

[dominus florenzus 0]

tarnishes it for me. for those great pats superbowls... how many winning drives were the product of Tom Brady's decision making skill as a QB, or knowledge of what the defense was going to do (and not simply "reading the defense"). I dont know, and that is the problem.

[cblue 0]

Of course it tarnishes the "Dynasty" anytime you have or are believed to have an unfair advantage it takes something away from your accomplishments.

 

But the idea a few people are putting out there that it would be easy to video tape and decipher what the signals mean during a 15 minute halftime period is absurd. I coached for several years at the high school and junior college level and I guarantee you couldn't figure out the 6-8 and sometimes more signals that we sent in for any given play.

 

It's not as simple as left hand on head, right hand on hip, elbows out, one foot up means 4-3 with zone coverage and left outside linebacker spys the QB.

 

A head pat or an arm wave cold be involved in 40 different plays and depending on the sequence it means different things.

 

I believe that this is a simple matter of Big Bill being a control freak. He wants to do the scouting on his own. Every team at any level has advanced scouts. Those guys are out there looking at signs and tendencies. It's not like they're coming back after scouting the Colts and telling the head coach "hey that guy Manning is pretty good." I do believe that all of this has given them an advantage in follow up games. The Pats record against teams they face for a second or third time (playoffs) in a given year is great.

 

I agree with you that the Pats are tarnished.

 

But, I think that the Patriots would tap the Defensive Coordinators signals and analyze them later in the week. A team of analyzers could watch the tape and then decipher the signals. These tapes don't have a benefit unless you already know the signals (which the Pats would have, if they tapped that Def. Coordinator previously). Maybe Belicheat already has tape of the Jets defensive signals gained from analyzing both of last year's Jets games. NOW, the Pats have a huge advantage.

[Nichee 0]

if i knew my opponents' hole cards in hold'em i think i would be tough to beat

[hines86rules 0]

To Pats haters it does.

To Pats fans it doesn't.

All others' opinions will be split.

It doesn't matter, when all is said and done they still have the titles and no * will ever be put in front of them by the NFL.

 

I hate the pats but it doesn't take away from the last 6 years. But.....Pats fans better get used to every win and loss being picked apart from now on and they have no right ot b!tch when it happens.

[SeeYouBuffs 1]

Absolutely YES! I will never look at them the same, this has tarnished everything they've accomplished!

[UncleHulka 0]

Maybe old news? But this is great

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg

is along the same lines but even better.

 

your welcome

[IndyTom 0]

is along the same lines but even better.

 

your welcome

 

I love that song!

[Timinator 0]

Well, I already thought their "championships" were tarnished right from the Tuck play. As soon as Vinatieri left town, Brady became pretty vulnerable. "Oh, he didn't have WRs last year," I hear Pats fans whine. So what? He hadn't had any outstanding WRs for a long time.

 

Now, we find that it's not just the referees, but the opponent's defensive sets that they have in their back pockets. It's gotta make anybody question the abilities of coaching staff and star QBs. In fact, Pats fans oughta be pissed because you got no legitimate answer for why a bunch of cheaters can only win by a freakin' FG. Were your cheers legit? Of course, they were. Was your team? Right now, you have no idea.