Ebonics

[phillybear 366]

and focking don't ever compare immigrant's circumstance to those who were the decendants of slavery and jim crow!

no got damn comparison!

focking ignorant asses.

 

peenie, I like you. But you are seriously a mental patient. I can never tell if you are fishing or not.

 

Almost every person in my family died due to Stalin. There was a holocaust in Ukraine during the 1930's that Stalin ordered, as soldiers surrounded the country's borders, ensuring no food got in. The results were mass graves and cannibalism. 8+ million people starved to death. My father and grandfather were the only members of my father's family that survived the escape across the border, as most people were killed by gunfire by Russian soldiers. My father moved country to country in Europe. After a 20 year wait, he and my grandfather were granted the right to emmigrate to America.

 

On my mother's side, most of the family died in death camps in Siberia. Death camp. You understand what that means, right? My grandmother only survived due to Stalin's death, and was given a release. My mother spent many years homeless while my grandmother was gone.

 

I have no uncles, aunts, cousins, basically nothing. We have been unable to find another living relative despite many, many years of searching.

 

What was your point about immigrants? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but your post is far too generalizing. But fascinating. Carry on. This thread is interesting. Like I said in many previous posts, I am incapable of ever being offended, and I feel every single topic is fodder for humor. But you have to have a better perspective on recent history. I'm just here playing Devil's Advocate, as I enjoy doing in most threads.

 

 

Edit: Many different nationalities have had struggles. Nobody is extra special. That is all I'm trying to say. Everybody is on a level playing field as far as I am concerned.

[Me_2006 14]

peenie, I like you. But you are seriously a mental patient. I can never tell if you are fishing or not.

 

Almost every person in my family died due to Stalin. There was a holocaust in Ukraine during the 1930's that Stalin ordered, as soldiers surrounded the country's borders, ensuring no food got in. The results were mass graves and cannibalism. 8+ million people starved to death. My father and grandfather were the only members of my father's family that survived the escape across the border, as most people were killed by gunfire by Russian soldiers. My father moved country to country in Europe. After a 20 year wait, he and my grandfather were granted the right to emmigrate to America.

 

On my mother's side, most of the family died in death camps in Siberia. Death camp. You understand what that means, right? My grandmother only survived due to Stalin's death, and was given a release. My mother spent many years homeless while my grandmother was gone.

 

I have no uncles, aunts, cousins, basically nothing. We have been unable to find another living relative despite many, many years of searching.

 

What was your point about immigrants? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but your post is far too generalizing. But fascinating. Carry on. This thread is interesting. Like I said in many previous posts, I am incapable of ever being offended, and I feel every single topic is fodder for humor. But you have to have a better perspective on recent history. I'm just here playing Devil's Advocate, as I enjoy doing in most threads.

Edit: Many different nationalities have had struggles. Nobody is extra special. That is all I'm trying to say. Everybody is on a level playing field as far as I am concerned.

Phillybear, you be trippin nigga.

 

Seriously though, excellent point.

[peenie 1,915]

russians are hot!

[gocolts 300]

Speaking this way hurts the people that do it. Imagine going to a job interview and speaking this way. You probably wont be getting anything over 15,000 a year.

[phillybear 366]

russians are hot!

 

No way. Have you seen the women in Borat's home country? Yuck.

[peenie 1,915]

[kilroy69 1,247]

russians are hot!

After your great points this is her response. Classic.

[jerryskids 6,790]

One aspect that I think you're overlooking is how exceptional most of the immigrants that make it over here are. They have large slums back home full of people that, for whatever reasons, lack the initiative, the will, or the luck to uproot and come here to this land of opportunity. So the immigrants that make it here are already a self selected group and don't really provide the best point of comparison to the black community as a whole.

 

The best comparison IMO is the domestic Native American population.

I think you are proving his point. The immigrants that make it here and furthermore are successful have the initiative and will to make a better life for themselves. Those that don't, well, don't. I don't buy the "luck" part BTW; luck is largely what you make of your opportunities. And do they make their lives better there? Fock no, there is little upside there. They come here, the land of opportunity. So those that have the drive to overcome language barriers (no, I'm not talking ebonics) can do it. Why can't the people who are already here? Sorry, you already said it. Carry on.

[peenie 1,915]

this is the black belt

it's where blacks lived as slaves and where they basically remained until after slavery up until today.

as you can see it's firmly in the south.

blacks did not live with whites nor did they go to school with whites until recently.

they lived next to other blacks who were mostly poor and uneducated.

some blacks moved out of this region in the 1920's but basically most stayed in the south where they lived under segregation and jim crow.

now, keep in mind, in the south blacks were expected to work only in certain jobs.

they couldn't work in the steel plants or even in the cigarette factories, no they were still working on farms.

there were laws set in place to help protect the planter from losing it's black workers, by restricting blacks from working in jobs and living in areas that were for whites only.

so many blacks moved to the north in hopes of finding better work.

where did they move? to the cities where the jobs were.

what happened?

were the jobs there for them?

nooooo. the jobs were there for the immigrants!!!!

have you ever heard of unions??

they did not allow blacks.

as a matter of fact businesses used blacks against immigrants as a way of keeping them in their jobs by pitting that group against the other.

they only hired blacks when immigrants attempted to strike and then they never formed a cohesive bond.

blacks could not live in the neighborhoods that immigrants lived in, even today!

white immigrants were able to join the armed forces when blacks weren't.

they were able to buy homes in the suburbs when blacks weren't.

they were able to blend into society while blacks couldn't because they were an identifiable group.

blacks didn't get g.i. loans to buy homes in the suburbs.

they were stuck in the cities when the jobs left and many are stuck there today as more and more corporations make their headquarters waaaay off out of the way of public transportation.

 

so you have blacks from the south (hence always the hint of the southern accent in blacks no matter where they're from) living together in groups, many uneducated (hence the broken language) and many unable to break that cycle because they cannot live next to white even though they now work next to whites.

 

it's changing and many blacks are doing fine despite obstacles. some don't realize that there are plenty of groups that had it worse off and many don't take advantage of the opportunities that they have.

there are lost of variables.

 

how can you speak like the majority if you don't live with the majority?

[Toro 1]

I think you are proving his point. The immigrants that make it here and furthermore are successful have the initiative and will to make a better life for themselves. Those that don't, well, don't. I don't buy the "luck" part BTW; luck is largely what you make of your opportunities. And do they make their lives better there? Fock no, there is little upside there. They come here, the land of opportunity. So those that have the drive to overcome language barriers (no, I'm not talking ebonics) can do it. Why can't the people who are already here? Sorry, you already said it. Carry on.

 

Not too mention the fact that the immigrants have to go through so much JUST to get here and we they arrive, they are in an even worse situation financially than most Americans, not to mention the social and language barriers that must be managed.

[Toro 1]

this is the black belt

it's where blacks lived as slaves and where they basically remained until after slavery up until today.

as you can see it's firmly in the south.

blacks did not live with whites nor did they go to school with whites until recently.

neither did immigrants

they lived next to other blacks who were mostly poor and uneducated.

so do immigrants

some blacks moved out of this region in the 1920's but basically most stayed in the south where they lived under segregation and jim crow.

now, keep in mind, in the south blacks were expected to work only in certain jobs.

so are immigrants

they couldn't work in the steel plants or even in the cigarette factories, no they were still working on farms.

so are immigrants

there were laws set in place to help protect the planter from losing it's black workers, by restricting blacks from working in jobs and living in areas that were for whites only.

40 years ago.

so many blacks moved to the north in hopes of finding better work.

where did they move? to the cities where the jobs were.

what happened?

were the jobs there for them?

nooooo. the jobs were there for the immigrants!!!!

because they worked harder

have you ever heard of unions??

they did not allow blacks.

40 years ago

as a matter of fact businesses used blacks against immigrants as a way of keeping them in their jobs by pitting that group against the other.

yet the immigrants are successful

they only hired blacks when immigrants attempted to strike and then they never formed a cohesive bond.

do I need to continue??

blacks could not live in the neighborhoods that immigrants lived in, even today!

white immigrants were able to join the armed forces when blacks weren't.

they were able to buy homes in the suburbs when blacks weren't.

they were able to blend into society while blacks couldn't because they were an identifiable group.

blacks didn't get g.i. loans to buy homes in the suburbs.

they were stuck in the cities when the jobs left and many are stuck there today as more and more corporations make their headquarters waaaay off out of the way of public transportation.

 

so you have blacks from the south (hence always the hint of the southern accent in blacks no matter where they're from) living together in groups, many uneducated (hence the broken language) and many unable to break that cycle because they cannot live next to white even though they now work next to whites.

 

it's changing and many blacks are doing fine despite obstacles. some don't realize that there are plenty of groups that had it worse off and many don't take advantage of the opportunities that they have.

there are lost of variables.

 

how can you speak like the majority if you don't live with the majority?

 

Thatssa nice list of excuses.

[kilroy69 1,247]

Hey pen!s do you just not understand how to write in paragraph form or is that conforming to the white culture?

[peenie 1,915]

my daughter's friend is going off to australia to finish her college education.

her parents and i had a wonderful talk.

they explained how their parents moved from the south up to chicago looking for work.

they didn't find work.

they said many blacks had moved to chicago from the south and were living in these crappy shanty like towns.

the city realized that blacks were living in extreme poverty and built apartments to help house them.

they were called projects.

at first it was great, but then the more and more people came and the less and less work there was for them and it became a slum.

they told me how....i think at first there was a movement to help protect the blacks, kind of like the black panther party, and it was filled with militant blacks trying to do for each other and take care of each other...but it morphed into what is now today the bloods.

i don't know how that relates to the story, but.....

[peenie 1,915]

well immigrants have had over a hundred years of opportunity and blacks have had 40.

i think we've done quite well thus far.

[Toro 1]

well immigrants have had over a hundred years of opportunity and blacks have had 40.

i think we've done quite well thus far.

 

Really? Immigrants from Haiti have had 40 years of opportunity????? I guess those freaking Chinese immigrants came from the land of opportunity!!!

 

You are a focking joke, dude. Learn to shut up.

[Me_2006 14]

well immigrants have had over a hundred years of opportunity and blacks have had 40.

i think we've done quite well thus far.

I think you just hit the nail on the head. That excuse making and "well we're doing well considering the circumstances" is exactly the focking problem.

[jerryskids 6,790]

well immigrants have had over a hundred years of opportunity and blacks have had 40.

i think we've done quite well thus far.

Congrats. That's one, more like two generations. I would expect you to have done quite well. Glad we agree.

 

BTW, the Japanese in the concentration camps during WWII, an entire culture vilified. Walk in the park, right?

[peenie 1,915]

Really? Immigrants from Haiti have had 40 years of opportunity????? I guess those freaking Chinese immigrants came from the land of opportunity!!!

 

You are a focking joke, dude. Learn to shut up.

i don't understand what you are trying to say?

you all asked me why blacks speak differently than whites and i tried to explain that we lived in segregated environments and have not had the opportunities that white immigrants have had and really only until the civil rights era can one say blacks have had equal footing with whites.

haitians are black.

chinese are not black.

all groups have had issues and problems, but the chinese are coming from a land with a unbroken culture behind them.

blacks culture would be that of slavery.

i mean, you can't really compare the two.

i'm answering the question about dialect.

i think blacks have done well considering their obstacles.

and i'm not a dude.

[kilroy69 1,247]

i don't understand what you are trying to say?

you all asked me why blacks speak differently than whites and i tried to explain that we lived in segregated environments and have not had the opportunities that white immigrants have had and really only until the civil rights era can one say blacks have had equal footing with whites.

haitians are black.

chinese are not black.

all groups have had issues and problems, but the chinese are coming from a land with a unbroken culture behind them.

blacks culture would be that of slavery.

i mean, you can't really compare the two.

i'm answering the question about dialect.

i think blacks have done well considering their obstacles.

and i'm not a dude.

What they are saying is that they don't buy your lame arguement and are poking holes in it.

[peenie 1,915]

Congrats. That's one, more like two generations. I would expect you to have done quite well. Glad we agree.

 

BTW, the Japanese in the concentration camps during WWII, an entire culture vilified. Walk in the park, right?

how many years did they suffer?

how about hundreds of years of slavery vs a few years of internment for which the japanese were paid over a billion dollars for that. are whites willing to pay blacks for slavery?

[peenie 1,915]

What they are saying is that they don't buy your lame arguement and are poking holes in it.

no, it is not lame.

blacks speak differently because they live seperately. period.

[Toro 1]

i don't understand what you are trying to say?

you all asked me why blacks speak differently than whites and i tried to explain that we lived in segregated environments and have not had the opportunities that white immigrants have had and really only until the civil rights era can one say blacks have had equal footing with whites.

haitians are black.

chinese are not black.

all groups have had issues and problems, but the chinese are coming from a land with a unbroken culture behind them.

blacks culture would be that of slavery.

i mean, you can't really compare the two.

i'm answering the question about dialect.

i think blacks have done well considering their obstacles.

and i'm not a dude.

 

Can't you even type correctly???

 

I am trying to say that african americans face less hardship, on average, than immigrants do, yet the success rates of immigrants are dramatically higher. You keep trying to say african americans fail due to hardships faced and discrimination, yet I continue to point out racial/ethnic groups that have many more obstacles than the typical african american yet seem to do fine in America - especially the 2nd generation.

[peenie 1,915]

well that is your opinion and i disagree.

[Toro 1]

well that is your opinion and i disagree.

 

It is a fact and you are ignorant to it.

[kilroy69 1,247]

Can't you even type correctly???

She is anti-paragraph.

[peenie 1,915]

It is a fact and you are ignorant to it.

i am black and i live in my black skin so i don't need you or anyone to tell me what it's like to be me or to be my family members. i can see and i know what obstacles are faced by my people.

first of all, i have a career and a good life.

i have an education and my daughter is getting an even better education.

i am a success story.

that does NOT mean however that just because i did it that everyone can do it.

i also don't condemn others for being poor or not being as lucky as i am.

i don't need to look down on others because i've made and they haven't.

i don't pat myself on the back because i get a paycheck.

i haven't done anything great except go to work everyday, there is no great glory in that.

you all have a lot of anger and bitterness in your hearts.

you need to be more open and loving.

that is what is important in life.

not how much money you have in the bank.

how are you helping others?

why aren't you willing to go out into the communities you are scorning and maybe be a big brother to some of these children and help them to speak the language instead of coming on this website and trying to take your frustrations out on me?

[jerryskids 6,790]

i haven't done anything great except go to work everyday, there is no great glory in that.

Really? That IMO would be a great message to your black counterparts. Are they doing that? Are you preaching that to them? I suppose I could try, but as a white male, I'm not thinking they want to hear it from me.

[peenie 1,915]

Really? That IMO would be a great message to your black counterparts. Are they doing that? Are you preaching that to them? I suppose I could try, but as a white male, I'm not thinking they want to hear it from me.

everyone i know has a job.

apparently you must know a lot of jobless blacks, i don't.

[kilroy69 1,247]

everyone i know has a job.

Know a lot of white people huh?

[jerryskids 6,790]

everyone i know has a job.

apparently you must know a lot of jobless blacks, i don't.

Actually, the blacks I personally know are all quite successful. I was referring to your constant message about why blacks are NOT successful. Apparently I was wrong, carry on.

[peenie 1,915]

i didn't say blacks weren't successful.

i discussed segregation and dialect.

once again, blacks are doing fine considering the obstacles they've faced.

as a matter of fact a black person may be the next president of the united states.

not a jew, not an italian, not a chinese, a black person.

[Savage Beast 1]

i didn't say blacks weren't successful.

i discussed segregation and dialect.

once again, blacks are doing fine considering the obstacles they've faced.

as a matter of fact a black person may be the next president of the united states.

not a jew, not an italian, not a chinese, a black person.

 

He's half white though?

[Angry White Male 0]

pen!s is a racist!

[SUXBNME 1,499]

Wow...After reading this thread I have came to a conclusion.

[kilroy69 1,247]

Wow...After reading this thread I have came to a conclusion.

you sick fock.

[SUXBNME 1,499]

you sick fock.

 

That the least racist kat that you will ever see in your life. It is black and white and all it wants to do is dance

[Toro 1]

i am black and i live in my black skin so i don't need you or anyone to tell me what it's like to be me or to be my family members. i can see and i know what obstacles are faced by my people.

first of all, i have a career and a good life.

i have an education and my daughter is getting an even better education.

i am a success story.

that does NOT mean however that just because i did it that everyone can do it.

i also don't condemn others for being poor or not being as lucky as i am.

i don't need to look down on others because i've made and they haven't.

i don't pat myself on the back because i get a paycheck.

i haven't done anything great except go to work everyday, there is no great glory in that.

you all have a lot of anger and bitterness in your hearts.

you need to be more open and loving.

that is what is important in life.

not how much money you have in the bank.

how are you helping others?

why aren't you willing to go out into the communities you are scorning and maybe be a big brother to some of these children and help them to speak the language instead of coming on this website and trying to take your frustrations out on me?

 

http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/235/217/

[peenie 1,915]

http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/235/217/

i know you aren't directing that link to me!

i've used that same argument to confront those on this site who try to claim that blacks are inferior genetically.

i already know that africans and caribbeans do well here. that was the major flaw of the bell curve.

he could not include africans or caribbeans in his "black" grouping because they scored as well as whites on standardized tests.

but what does that have to do with why black americans speak differently than whites?

[Quickolas1 80]

 

that was great up until the end when the last kid said "aint nobody never told me da right word to say"

 

and then the author who can't believe educators don't correct poor english said "i gotta do this"

 

this one is much better:

[kilroy69 1,247]

i know you aren't directing that link to me!

i've used that same argument to confront those on this site who try to claim that blacks are inferior genetically.

Really now I have not read anywhere on here that says blacks are inferior genetically. That is nonsense. No one race is genetically inferior to another.

 

i already know that africans and caribbeans do well here. that was the major flaw of the bell curve.

he could not include africans or caribbeans in his "black" grouping because they scored as well as whites on standardized tests.

 

Any reason why africans or caribbeans score as well as whites on standardized tests? Wouldn't they be subject to the same problems that the rest of the black population is?